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  1. They are both illegal. Why is one consider supremely illegal and the other discussed freely? This is a mixed message.
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  2. Member Treebeard's Avatar
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    Pirating a video is not freely discussed in these forums or promoted. all the information on this site is to help people make backup copies of their own movies. Its called fair rights usage, and this site supports that to the full extent.
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  3. Different countries have different laws. Also different rules apply for SW and Audio/Visual creations. So, what is illegal in one country may be legal in another. Everything discussed in this forum is perfectly legal in my country (including making copies of rentals and DiVx downloads), if it is done for personal use. But we have recordable-media-tax for authors to get paied.
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  4. copying a movie from paid per view - legal, copy from dishnet or cable -legal, backups from your VHS, DVD or Laser Discs generally felt as legal
    copying from rentals, illegal, which one everyone on this site is doing, up in the air, can't excuse someone of facts you do not know, example I have 125 laser discs I own, laser disc player quit working I need to watch them some way, not gonna buy a very over price $959 laser disc player, I will back these up on DVD-R so I can watch what I own, now if I sell or get rid of that laser disc, I will have to destroy the backup also.
    Oh yes I own over 500 DVD's I have purchased also, I have maybe 50 backups, so making backups is not high on my agenta, but how else will I watch my Lion king, Star Wars box set, Indiana Jones, Song of the South, Aladdin, so on..... I just kept laser discs that I could not purchase on DVD.
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  5. you tell tnxkid, i too have over 300 laserdiscs from a different
    era, like the 90's, i too bought many dvd's,ever since april '97
    when they premiered in select cities, they get scratched,little
    kiddies use em for frisbies,dont know why, only problem is
    not sure how long my l/d player will hold out, and i bought
    a new gainward g/f4 videocard,and i lost my damn vivo
    cable,any1 know where to get one?tnx
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  6. Let's clarify this. I can understand making a "backup" of an outdated medium such as laserdisk, or even VHS, as it is a medium that degrades in quality so quickly. But, backups of DVD. Who are some people kidding, themselves? DVD's are cheap, most of the new movies lately suck, and DVD players are widespread and cheap. DVD burners are expensive still, or at least too expensive to justify backups of another DVD. Gee, i'll buy a DVD burner and DVD disks, and spend hours making a lesser copy of a DVD. GENIUS!! Why didn't I think of that? 90% of movies are worth watching once, much less making a copy of. In my opinion, many of the people here are disguising what they are really doing, calling them backups (lame), or "fair use" (lame).

    Just my opinion though, I didn't start this thread.

    Besides, why take a DVD compatible in almost all players, and create a disk only compatible in a few, IF YOU HAVE THE ORIGINAL DISK!!!

    Just doesn't sound productive. I do love making VCD's of home movies though. So if used properly, this site has great info.
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  7. LMAO!!!!!!

    Really LMAO!!!!!!
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  8. Member
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    Backups...

    1) Kids

    2) Multiple players

    3) Roomates

    4) Rot

    5) ......
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  9. Backups?

    1. kids - Once again DVD's are cheap, especially kid DVD's unless your
    kids are watching fight club. Otherwise put them out of their
    reach.

    2. Multiple players (lame) - How many are watching the same movie at
    one time. (let's get better excuses)

    3. Roomates - If you are afraid they will steal your DVDs and other things
    more valuable, get new roomates.

    4. Rot - My DVD's are not rotting, in fact they will most likely at last the
    DVD player, case in point, the member above with lots of nice
    laserdiscs, no player.

    5. ....You left this one blank, I can only assume it is reserved for bad
    intentions.

    I'm not bashing anyone, but the thread starter brought up a valid point. There are more questions than answers.
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  10. DVDs are cheap?
    One acronym.............

    UK
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  11. Backups are legit, and home video and all this... Great. However, I had noticed that lately WAY WAY WAY too many people are posting about their downloaded movies... and specifically "DVDRip divx" as they tend to say. I wouldn't even be surprised if a search would come up even with titles... Haven't seen much people compain before

    Oh. Also, all these divx/xvid to DVD (or *VCD, for that matter) are also all suspicious. Let's picture this out. A guy buys a DVD, and rips it. So far, so good (still backup). Then he SUPPOSEDLY converts it to xvid or divx? Ok, let's grant him that too. Now, WHY would this very same guy happen to want to burn it on DVD-R? (Also, he MUST still have the original, else it wouldn't be legit anyways) And he's going thru all the hassle of mpeg2 to avi, to mpeg2 again, where he could copy lots from the original much faster, and with better quality, and the others by just reencoding the original (better quality and faster again). And doing this, lots of people mention using CCE. I doubt all these guys really bought CCE SP. It's not quite TMPGEnc's price range... I don't think they're really fooling many people... Sure, there are exceptions, and we're not all guilty... Also, I have never seen a laserdisc, nor known anyone who owns one. Legit commecial VCD's aren't quite THAT popular neither. Don't mean there isn't anyone who has one at all, but there's so many people on here who supposedly have one and all these movies for it... My kids are quite hard on DVD's too, but they haven't ruined one so far. Sure, you can play frisbee with the discs too, but usually, there's adults around too, and kids can be taught proper handling if time is spent. Lots of very doubtful excuses for sure. (Again, not saying everyone is a pirate, but lots of people are suspicious). As for multiple players, yeah, I watch the same movie on 6 players at once too.. NOT. At least, if we had slighly "amusing and original" excuses... Let's get real here.
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  12. It's called "plausible deniability".

    It is not necessary that the "reason" makes complete sense to everyone, or ANYone for that matter. It only needs to make sense to the person doing the task.

    As for the legality, there is a presumption of innocence. Some have been pushing that envelope, and I believe that the owners of this site have been contacted by someone who discussed issues of liability.
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  13. Yeah. Not pointing the finger to anyone, but some people really push it... The site owners/moderators aren't at fault for sure. But to say all these guys are all doing divx to svcd with CCE SP legally... Yeah, sure, I believe they purchased the DVD and CCE SP as well. No doubt at all in my mind.
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  14. weeyoo: 2. Multiple players (lame) - How many are watching the same movie at
    one time. (let's get better excuses)
    I have a Multiple DVD players in my house, office, and Car. I am not going to take my whole collection or even just my favorite ones to all these places hence the backups.
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  15. Member Conquest10's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by weeyoo
    1. kids - Once again DVD's are cheap, especially kid DVD's unless your
    kids are watching fight club.
    cheap? disney dvds are $39.99. well. anyway, personally people think i'm weird for backing up my movies. i get a movie and back it up. i watch the copy and just leave the original in mint condition. i don't know about you, but i have little kids always coming by the house and i'm not home 24/7. they've ruined several of my movies. but now that i back them up i don't have to worry that much about leaving the house.
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  16. Just My Two cents.

    I have A pair of (nearly) three year old twin girls and I backup every and I mean every Kids DVD I buy Be It Disney, Blues Clues, Wiggles or whatever. Kids DVD's are no cheaper than adult DVD's. Weeyoo the cheapest Kids DVD's run 13- 14 Dollars Just Like the cheapest Regular dvd's are 13 -14 dollars. The Disney Movies can easily be up to 30 dollars. You must not have children, or spend much time with them, because there is no place you can keep anything out of reach of a truly determined 3 year old. It costs me 2 bucks to back up a dvd and I can do it in under two hours. In one year my girls have thrown dvd's in the garbage, cracked them by forcing the dvd tray closed or scratched them in the same process and used them to slide across a tiled floor. In each case it was an easy matter of getting the original from the box I have on the top shelf of my bedroom closet and making onother backup. My kids never watch the originals (anymore). I learned this the hard way after paying 50 dollars to replace two so called cheap dvds. The same 50 bucks would have allowed me to make 25 simple backups. This is why I make My backups. I dont own very many dvds that are not childrens dvd's. Most of the ones I do have where gifts. I rarely whatch a movie more than once or twice, But my kids love to watch there disney toons, or blue's clues. Both at home and in our minivan.
    Shadowrunner
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  17. Member
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    Personally I have only backed up a few movies, most of those are rental...and most are backed up to DVD-RW. I find it convenient because I don't waste DVD-R's making coasters (which has happened) and it works out a lot cheaper. I have 10 DVD-RW's that I re-use once I am tired of watching a movie...If I want to watch it again I re-rent it. If I really like it I will buy it outright in the first place.

    The other reason for me is the learning experience. Working out how to fit a 5+GB movie on a 4.7GB disk...how to keep surround sound on VCD's...that sort of thing.....and also pure curiosity. Someone comes out with a new tool, I want to have a play at it and see how it works.

    I don't think movie studios are losing as much as they claim. I know plenty of people that download divx movies simply because they are there, not because they want to avoid paying for something. If they can't download a movie they don say to themselves "Bugger...now I have to go out and buy it"..they just simply don't buy it...either way no money has changed hands. If you copy a rental then you have paid for the movie (via rental) and studios get some of your money. It isn't like you go out and rent the same movie 5 times a year ( or however often you want to watch it ).

    In short, people will pay for a movie if there is value there. Someone might copy Lord of the Rings (for example) and get the movie only, however they might pay to get all the extras rather than turn a 4 disk set into 8 disks (without re-encoding)

    I'm not sure what movie studio's are complaining about anyway....since DVD's came on the market there has been an explosion in people buying movies, whereas before they would rent.

    my 2c
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  18. Never seen so many, get so hurt.

    First of all I do have a child, 2 year old. DVD players, check which ones before buying, have locking features to keep the trays from opening. How do you think retailers keep their demos from getting stolen? Very useful I would say.

    Somone made a good point regarding Divx. Why was this developed? I would like to know the intentions? Could it be an easier way to send a high quality, video image over the networks, nicely packaged into a compessed file. Seems like a reasonable explanation. I might be wrong, and if someone knows, please post it. It does gave legit apps, such as sequences in pc games, but it isn't much good beyond a PC application. I have a DVD player on my PC, and a large monitor, but I just cannot bring myself to watch a movie on my PC, unless I'm travelling and it's on my notebook. Backing up a disk to AVI so that I would not have to carry the original disk might be somewhat usefull then. But, I cannot think of any other circumstances that might drive me to rip a copy of my movie to avi.
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  19. Member
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    There are several reasons that people backup, including 1) because it's a technical challenge and some people enjoy it, 2) protecting your investment for reasons stated above, and 3) because you like to steal stuff.

    Now, I've backed up some of my DVDs because it was fun learn how (same with divx backups) but there's no way in hell I'd prefer to pirate movies rather than buy or rent them. First of all I'm gainfully employed and second of it's not worth the effort to pirate movies if your time (and enjoyment the full product) is worth anything.

    To clarify yet again, we don't care if people are pirating stuff as long as they do NOT talk about it here. When people start trying to make this a hangout for warez kiddies then there's a problem. This board exists to share information on video related matters, and I've learned an incredible amount that can be put to good legal uses. If people also use this for illegal things, that's their business.
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  20. Firstly, this site is about video disc creation / video capturing / video editing / video authoring. All of these topics are quite technical and all of the methods and information within are completely legal.

    As for backing up a video format, this is completely legal as well as long as you have a right to access that content (e.g., you own it). There are many good reasons why people would want to back up their video, including DVDs.

    With regard to DVD ripping, the line we are taking (at the moment) is that there is a presumption of innocence. That is, unless otherwise stated, it is assumed that YOU HAVE A RIGHT to access that content you declare to be copying / backing up.

    If you explicitly indicate that you do not have a right to fair use to that content (e.g., DVD rentals, downloading and converting stuff you state you don't own, etc.) then the thread will be locked / deleted and you may or may not be banned.

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
    w: Morsels of Evidence
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  21. I do not own many DVDs (about 30). I generally buy DVDs of those movies which I have enjoyed watching on the big screen and would enjoy watching multiple times at home. I live in India and DVDs here are not very expensive - about Rs. 350 to Rs. 500 (US$ 7.50 to US$ 11.50). Plus these are zone free. Hence whenever there is a reason to buy one, I always do so. I believe that if the retailers lowered the cost of DVDs (especially in Europe and they can certainly do so), it will propogate more sales and discourage copying.

    With the above facts, personally, I feel copying DVDs is waste of time and money. First, to get the entire DVD content (on dual layers) I need two DVD-Rs (to keep the cost to the minimum I choose DVD-R). The cost of a DVD-R here is equivalent of US$ 4.50. The time taken is at least 2 hours. IMHO, if you really like a movie, go and buy it. Nowadays, most DVDs come in multiple packages (two pack DVDs, one containing the feature while the second containing PC stuff); so why copy?

    I have however made copies of a few DVDs that my son (8 years) enjoys watching, e.g. Harry Potter. These are for strict personal use. I have copied them so as to keep the originals intact. I fully support backing up for personal use. Afterall, all corporations back up the software they license.
    *** My computer can beat me at chess, but is no match when it comes to kick-boxing. ***
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  22. Member
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    I have over 200 DVDs but I back up my kids DVD
    I have a 3 and a 2 years old.. I used to buy VHS and they would not last a week.. and you would not believe how many time they watch the same movie over and over again.. with DVD movie I can back it up to VCD, (kids wouldn't know the different anyway.. ) at least I still have the original DVD in a safe place..
    personally I would not backup my DVD, I don't have 2 or 3 hours to waste making backup beside how many time can you watch the same movie?
    Plus some of the software to encoding the movie it's pretty expensive,
    like CCE SP (it's about $2000US??), mostly I use my burner for backup data, pictures and transfer old VHS movies and Hi8 tape to DVD-R (I bought DVDIT Pro for almost $1000 Buck CDN).
    It's not right to pirate software/movies.. If we don't support the software developer then there won't be any new software..
    I smile every time I see people post -- how do I use this software or why this software does not work in my computer.. if these people have a legal copy of the software, they would not have this problem and How can one person have over 2 or 3 CD/DVD recording software in their system!!! no wonder their CD or DVD Burner does not work correctly..
    I'm not bashing anyone, just be consider, It's fine to say yea the big software company is making lots of money.. how would you feel if you are that perosn working in the software company and somebody is ripping you off. There won't be any incentive for them to come up with new software..
    If you like the software or movie buy it. Plus, all these great programs like Smartripper, DVD Decrypter, DVD2SVCD, EasyVCD, IFOEdit, etc.. make a donation to the author and help support them..
    Even this excellent site VCDHelp.com!!
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  23. WAF "fair use". It is something in US federal laws, congress acts or something. There are 6+ billion people in this world. Only ~4% live in US. So, there is nothing, absolutely nothing (including murder, eating, sex), which is ultimately legal or ultimately illegal. Remember, this is worldwide (rather than just international) forum.
    IIRC authors rights are internationally protected by Geneva convention. Not all countries (most are) have joined. And this convention only covers copies made with intent of spreading not for personal use.
    What is clearly contradicting Geneva convention, is uploading DiVx. Downloading is not. So, downloading DiVx and making personal copies of then is 100% legal in most of the world, while ethically it is at least questionable. Same applies to DVDs borrowed from friends.
    About copying DVD-rentals (once again for personal use only!) I don't see no legal nor ethical limitations.

    BTW LP,CD, DVD, SW (name it) aftermarket is also illegal.
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  24. If you use a program often or like a film which you want to watch more than once, buy it. I developed some software a few years ago that I released as shareware. All updates and new releases were free. Many people have no idea of the costs of developing and maintaining software. Because of all the cracks that are available it became impossible for me to continue developing and support the program, for this reason I dislike people who moan about Microsft but are prepared to use illegeal copies of program's.

    Having said that I am annoyed by the way the the film industry treats consumers. For instance when it was first released I bought Lord of the Rings for 35 Euro's. A couple of weeks later they announced an extended version would be released at the end of the year, it costs 39,95 Euro's. I feel really cheated by this. Although I do not download DIVx files etc I have little sympathy with the film industry, they get what they deserve. This also goes for the reocrd industry.Why don't they sell there DVD's cheaply (say $5-10) at the cinema to people how have been to see the film?

    As far as bought software always working on a PC, this is simply not true. Some time back I bought Adobe Premiere 5.5, I never got it to work properly. I found it to be very unstable and because of this over priced. I am now using Pinnacle Studio 7 which I also bought. I hade to download a couple of updates before Studio worked properly.

    I use my equipment mainly for creating DVD's from my home movies & photo's, but I do also capture using my TV card and then burn to DVD. I also back up my music CD's and a few DVD's. Believe me, children don't have to be toddlers to ruin disks.

    What is cheap to once person can be expensive or even unaffordable to another.

    Without this site I would still be trying to figure out how to burn my photo's onto a CD-R and play them on my stand alond DVD player
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    backing up films/cartoons for kids can be a mixed blessing.i backed-up scooby doo to dvd-r(awful film, by the way) for my little brother. while it kept him occupied watching it, he watched it 3 times in 3 days on our 36inch widescreen tv which meant i could'nt watch anything on it! how long do dvd-r's last on average? not long i hope!
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    One point that hasn't been mentioned is how you never see printed on the packaging of DVD's, CD's etc what you are actually allowed to do with them. They either have a long list of what you can't do with them or say nothing....is this so the door is open for the media companies to give us all a pants down tharshing after the fact???

    Most software makes it clear what is appropriate fair use and what is not so why not other intangibles? Obviously answers will vary from country to country but do you see what I'm saying?
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  27. Ethics and Economics often clash. There are many useful pieces of software that without using Extended Demo versions I would not be able to experiment with them at all. I do draw the line such that any actual paid commercial work I do I use either freeware, shareware or stuff I actually own. And as soon as I make any significant cash, the shareware guys will get paid.

    Most of the videos I make are Cable captures and backups of VHS and DVD, ditto on the destructive kids comments. I have downloaded a few items but mostly to check on others methods, I find the quality mostly very poor.

    As for movie studios or anyone else getting paid "too much", that is not our decision; the only input we have is to choose wether or not to support them by purchasing their product. You can always wait and get it cheaper, stealing is stealing. What makes this so controversial is the scale, steal one paper clip and big deal, steal millions of them and somebody's gonna get upset.
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  28. When you're in love with a beautiful woman it never ends.

    When you're in love with a beautiful woman you watch your friends, baby watch your friends, baby watch your friends.

    Yeah! Now that's what I call real music!
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  29. Member
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    I don't want to overly sound an alarm, but I had a legal situation in January selling what I thought was an OK item on Ebay. After receiving a letter from an attorney demanding legal damages on behalf of a corporate entity this group should be aware that . . .

    I have no doubt this forum is viewed by attorneys or their agents representing owners of movie studios. They would love to make an example of someone for pirating their copywritten material.

    This group would be better served to drop this and similar topic discussions that involve anything other than making archival backups of movies we have purchased which we are all doing since we would not want to break any laws by ripping rented movies.

    BTW, I wrote a 5 figure check to keep from appearing in Federal court for copywrite enfringement/damages which was cheaper than hiring an attorney. Just a thought.

    LynnsABCs
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  30. Member
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    Originally Posted by weeyoo
    Backups?

    1. kids - Once again DVD's are cheap, especially kid DVD's unless your
    kids are watching fight club. Otherwise put them out of their
    reach.
    Actually, the Disney and other kids DVDs I buy for my daughter are generally the most expensive. I paid half as much for Star Wars Ep. 2 as I did for Beauty and the Beast.

    Richard
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