Warez NOT! ---- Pirating Video "YES"?

[Thwiipp]

"Backups?

1. kids - Once again DVD's are cheap, especially kid DVD's unless your
kids are watching fight club. Otherwise put them out of their
reach."

Are you living in the land of Oz, DVD's are expensive, even at 15 each, its not that cheap, id rather replace a $3.00 back up than my $15-$30 original, you may like to throw away that money but i dont. I didnt buy my drive to back up everything i have, mostly for converting home movies to DVD, but backing up some of those Quintessantil DVD's from your collection is a godsend as well.

[bartman]

What makes this so controversial is the scale, steal one paper clip and big deal, steal millions of them and somebody's gonna get upset.

This is all well and good and I believe that studios have a right to get upset if someone is stealing a significant number of movies...even more so if the intention is selling them (one only needs to head off to Indonesia to see that you can get anything you want...it just won't be original).

However it is a different kettle of fish if someone is backing up their movies so that the kids don't damage them...they paid for the movie already and they want tp protect their investment.

If I really enjoy a movie I will buy it and support the studio's and I think that 99% of people out there are the same. A copy is good but there is nothing like actually owning it.

I'd like to see the statistics of how many people would buy a movie if they couldn't copy it somehow.

[snowmoon]

Any time you sell a copyrighted work you are probably going to get a letter from some legal firm be it legal or not. It's cheap to intimidate people with the legal system when you are as big as most content producers are.

People seem to forget that their are two types of suits civil and criminal. To incur criminal prosecution the US DOJ has to notice you. Believe me they have their hands full with importers with billions in merchandice. All it takes is a cew dollars in office supplies and an address to start a civil suit, they have whole departments of people that just churn out these stock letters. What they fail to tell you is that they are more bark than bite and in the end all they could possibly receive are mitigated damages ( actuall losses ).

[lynnsabcs]

Any time you sell a copyrighted work you are probably going to get a letter from some legal firm be it legal or not. It's cheap to intimidate people with the legal system when you are as big as most content producers are.

People seem to forget that their are two types of suits civil and criminal. To incur criminal prosecution the US DOJ has to notice you. Believe me they have their hands full with importers with billions in merchandice. All it takes is a cew dollars in office supplies and an address to start a civil suit, they have whole departments of people that just churn out these stock letters. What they fail to tell you is that they are more bark than bite and in the end all they could possibly receive are mitigated damages ( actuall losses ).

Sorry snowmoon, let me tell you about the real world. I made a few hats which were similar to a VW slogan and the law says if you change as much as 30% you are OK. The 3rd letter I received in this process was a court docket letter for a federal court appearance date in Cinncinnati to defend myself against deep-pockets VW. A national mail-order company, Rocky Mtn. Motor Works is in Chapter 11 or whatever it is called due to a multi-million law suit with VW.

I repeat. This is not a healthy topic for discussion. Can you afford to hire an attorney and spend a week away from work and pay the potential court costs and damages because you most likely will loose? I was just providing a real-world warning. The VW stuff is being highly publicized in the car hobby so I am sure the studios could have the same idea.

I can assure you I did not get a form letter and there is a hell more than bark and bite involved. Copywrite infringement is a federal crime with potential jail time, court costs and treble damages. If you don't believe me, try to find a hat for sale on Ebay with a VW-related emblem. Porsche did the same thing a few years ago. This is real stuff--not urban legend.

LynnsABCs

[snowmoon]

Sounds like you are getting copyright and trandmark confused.

Copyright falls into two categories criminal and civil. Sounds like you are facing the latter. Civil suits make up the buld of copyright cases criminal haul in only the biggest fish.

Civil penalties occur when you use a signifigant part of a copyrighted work for finacial gain and you do not fall into a fair use category.

Trademarks are also a big issue, if not defended tradements mean nothing. The VW logo is definatly trademarked and without defence the company would loose all exclusive rights to the mark.

You were quite frankly ignorant of the laws, and you are getting burned. If you hire an attorney you could end up worse off since they will more than likley charge you several thousand dollard to defend you and you may or may not get off on a technicality. Depending on the number and ollar value of the items in question you are really up the creek, as each sale constitutes a violation in the laws eyes. Did you really think you could just take their copyright and trademarked materal and change 30% and be ok?

This is why, like I said before, ANYTIME you sell copyrighted ( or trademarked ) materals whether you think they are legal or not it taking a risk. The risk is magnified by the number and price of the items you are selling and again magnified if you are doing it professionally. The US legal system provides justice to the one willing to fork over more money to their lawyers. It provides little justice or equality to anyone.

Your reality is diffrent than most though. You were running it like a buisness and making a profit, that will draw an insta suit since there is a legal paper trail and profits they can take. For the most part music and movie companies will only bother themselves with the biggest and baddest of the bunch ( assuming they have a resonable chance of catching them ) and go after them. The only time they do more than nasty letters for the rest of you pirates is when they want to make an example of you.

[Cweig]

Hi--I've made copies of my DVD to VCD's because I have an old laptop w/ only a cd drive. So when I travel I'm able to watch the VCD.My 266 Micron plays these great-It also saved me from wanting to upgrade my laptop-- Just my 2 cents.....

[SilverMana]

My reason to use this site is to move my vhs to svcd / vcd. But another part of me is just to test new thing around and try to push my vcd / svcd homemade to a new limit than the simple put and play. I like to show my wife that i can me to make menus and stuff or some friends of mine. I dont sell any of my propreties and i have over 300 vhs here to convert and about 30-40 betas. so this site is a real use to me and for sure many ppl might use this site for other purpose but let them be.

[wulf109]

I see the moderators on this form criticize warez and software hacks all the time but I don't remember seeing any critizisim when someone posts that they download a movie which is clearly copyright infringement. It's illegal to upload copyrighted material of anykind. Why do you think Napster is gone.

[chewyshaun@hotmail.com]

There are always going to be a select few who would be using this site for illegal gain but quite frankly thats the way of world and the owners of this site wont be able to control that, It is a superb site for anyone wanting to backup originals or capture etc.legally, so at the end of the day theres not a lot that you can do about it, if they dont find the info here then they sure as hell would find it somewhere else!

[vitualis]

I see the moderators on this form criticize warez and software hacks all the time but I don't remember seeing any critizisim when someone posts that they download a movie which is clearly copyright infringement. It's illegal to upload copyrighted material of anykind. Why do you think Napster is gone.

This has been discussed in the "moderator forum" before (i.e., behind closed doors) and the stance we are taking is that unless otherwise stated, it is assumed that you have a right to that content (i.e., you have fair use access to the material). This is a grey area, but this is the line in the sand we are drawing for now. If the moderator feels that the mood of the thread is more on using p2p proggies to infringe copyright, then the thread will be closed.

The policy on this is not set in stone and may change depending on circumstance.

Regards.

[Smurff]

Hi All,

First I would like to say that I think this is a great forum and visit it every day.

BUT lets be honest. I would think that about 99% of people here have made "backup" of a rented dvd or from a download. Lets not make lame excuses as if we were trying to justify what we are doing.

As for the site. If we starting advertising that we have warez then it would get shut down in no time. Thats why most warez sites last 5 minutes.

With the explosion of peer 2 peer programs such as kazaa etc etc people can choose to download rather than go and buy it but lets keep the forum warez free so it stays alive.

I baught Nero and TMPGEnc just because they are great programs at a great price.

My 2 pence worth.

[vitualis]

As stated many times before, we don't really care what you do in your private lives, just don't post anything that could be harmful to this forum. If you do, then expect your post to be deleted.

What is acceptable on the board is written here: http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124514

Regards.

[FoxGarrison]

I burn VCDs because I love making compilation disks of DVDs I own. Being a music buff too, I tend to burn rips of music videos on the disks. It saves me the trouble of getting up, changing disks and sitting back down to enjoy it. Now I just slip the VCD into the tray and have about 80 minutes worth of videos I can watch when I'm travelling on the train in to work.

[midwestarts]

This is the best tread that I have seen in quite some time. I love this site. I do believe that people have a right to backup their cd's and DVD's. Protecting a $20.00 investment with a $1.00 DVD is not a bad deal.

Obviously renting a DVD and copying it is illegal and wrong. Downloading a movie from the internet and burning it to a DVD is illegal and wrong. If you love a movie and you want more of that type of movie made buy the DVD. If you own the movie why shouldn't you have the ability to back it up?

I also prefer capturing the TV shows I love off of a PVR and converting them to DVD's rather than buying the packaged products that come out a year or two latter. I wish DVD recorders would have come out sooner. I'm currently sitting on a stack of so-so MST3K tapes that I would love to have better quality DVD's of without spending $20.00 per show. This is now possible. This site is a great resource for information pertaining to capturing, encoding, burning, compatibility, and backing up.

If you like the software you use to capture or encode support the people who created it and pay for it.

[fakerbaker]

i argued this whole point out on the pi8 forums and to me personally i feel we're setting double standards.i'd like to know how many of the people who say they just use the software for backups actually own original copies of films. i'm sure they have at least several films on backup that they either made from a rental release or of a mate so come on who do you think your trying to kid.

[midwestarts]

I actually own the originals of my backups. I doubt that to many people do not try copying a DVD. It is an interesting techincal feat. Once the novelty of being able to copy a dvd wears out you have to wrestle with the "is it right" question. I choose to do what is right.

[FoxGarrison]

i'm sure they have at least several films on backup that they either made from a rental release or of a mate so come on who do you think your trying to kid.

This may be true of some, but that is a judgement based on what? Not everybody uses VCDHelp to pirate movies. Many of us have ligitamately bought the DVDs and want add-value for our hard-earned cash. Particularly when a studio restricts the use of a DVD to only perform in a certain way. I don't know about you, but I really like the fact that I can rip special features to my harddrive from various disks, burn the image to a VCD and be able to watch the finished product on my old laptop in on my way to work.

[alucard2050]

downloading movies off of the net such as from Kazza or another p2p filesharing.....illegal? but isn't it also illegal to download the mp3's...the music is also copyrighted isn't it? i think the only difference is that the music industry is already on the bandwagon to stop it with their lawsuits and the closing of Napster whereas the film industry hasn't pushed as hard yet...so what's the difference is my question? backups of DVD's for me i have not done. i'm into the original for my movies...captered movies off of Dish Net, i do all the time...make them into DVD's...yes i do...download music vids off a Kazza and stick them onto DVD's i also do...dowloaded movies in my opinion are a waste of time...the queality to me is crap...if i'm gonna watch a movie with my home theater i want picture and sound top notch....if someone wants to back-up their DVD's then to them it makes sense but not for me...people are copying rented DVD's just like people are copying music CD's that they've borrowed from their friends....point is for this web site even if people are useing this info for illegal purposes they can't just come on here and say,"HEY! i rented this movie and want to copy it"....it just can't be done..............

[midwestarts]

I agree capturing off Dish Network is a great way to go!

[Nelson37]

FakerBaker - has everything you have done over the last few days, weeks, or months, been completely legal? Can you prove it? If I believe you've been kicking the dog, or running stop signs, or jaywalking, does that force you to prove that you have not done these things?

If I own a gun to shoot burglars or rapists, I could also use it to shoot some idiot who is merely annoying me. That does not make me guilty of a crime unless I actually do it.

What some people may or may not do with their equipment means nothing, as long as the tools have a legitimate use, then they should continue to be developed and used.

[lynnsabcs]

Please note there is a new forum posting:

[I knew this was going to happen sooner or later. Hollywood is countersuing 321 Studios for allegedly "trafficking the tools of digital theft."

Seven major motion picture studios filed a counterclaim Thursday in U.S. District Court, Northern District of California against 321 Studios, makers of DVD Copy Plus and DVD X Copy.]


I will make a prediction that this is not the first or the last. I repeat--if you don't think "they" are watching and reading these posts you are living in a dream world. Someone who posts on a form here without info to ID who they are and says in writing they are making copies of DVD movies they do not own, (which of course, no one here is doing) be prepared to be the fall guy.

LynnsABCs

[lynnsabcs]

Sorry, I meant to say . . .

I will make a prediction that this is not the first or the last. I repeat--if you don't think "they" are watching and reading these posts you are living in a dream world. Someone who posts on a forum here with enough info to ID who they are and says in writing they are making copies of DVD movies they do not own, (which of course, no one here is doing) be prepared to be the fall guy.

LynnsABCs[/quote]

[Will Hay]

I see the moderators on this form criticize warez and software hacks all the time but I don't remember seeing any critizisim when someone posts that they download a movie which is clearly copyright infringement. It's illegal to upload copyrighted material of anykind. Why do you think Napster is gone.

An excellent point, well made.
To suggest the moderators are assuming they people downloading from p2p programmes have a right to that software is utter crap, and ignorant to make such a statement.
There is absolutely no difference in a post that openly admits to either
1) copying a dvd hired from a rental shop or
2) downloading the same movie from Kasaa.
Moderator people, either act on all or leave them all well alone. Your morale high ground is certainly misplaced on this occasion.
Will

[Will Hay]

lynnsabcs,
I've just done what I should have first done and read the entire thread.
I appreciate in your case you certainly, as we say in the UK, felt the shit end of the stick and I sympathise, although I do feel the authorities are going to be aiming towards the sellers, rather than people who they would have trouble proving were *not* backing up their own dvd's.
I reckon there's just too many.
Just as an aside (and I appreciate you haven't or might not want to expand on your little problem with this attorney chap), did you purposly attempt to make money from a branded item and did you make enough to cover the cheque youhad to write?
Is what you did anything different to what others are suggesting goes on in this very site?
[submitted on the basis of ]
Will Hay

[Will Hay]

There are always going to be a select few who would be using this site for illegal gain

WHAT???!
A select few?
How about an anonymous poll please Virtualis, to ascertain the level of backups vs. copying?
Thanks,
Will

[Craig Tucker]

I see the moderators on this form criticize warez and software hacks all the time but I don't remember seeing any critizisim when someone posts that they download a movie which is clearly copyright infringement. It's illegal to upload copyrighted material of anykind. Why do you think Napster is gone.

An excellent point, well made.
To suggest the moderators are assuming they people downloading from p2p programmes have a right to that software is utter crap, and ignorant to make such a statement.
There is absolutely no difference in a post that openly admits to either
1) copying a dvd hired from a rental shop or
2) downloading the same movie from Kasaa.
Moderator people, either act on all or leave them all well alone. Your morale high ground is certainly misplaced on this occasion.
Will

I regularly close threads that advocate warez. Do not advocate warez is one of the forum rules, and if you want to post on the forum you are asked to obide by the rules. If I see a post which says I have just downloaded "Film X" and it is obvious that it is not legally available, i.e. not released on any home format, then I will close the post. The closed post forum is full of these types of post, many of which you don't see because they are closed, only moderators have access to the closed topic forum. Obviously some are missed, the moderators can not check every single post on these forums.

[Will Hay]

I regularly close threads that advocate warez. Do not advocate warez is one of the forum rules, and if you want to post on the forum you are asked to obide by the rules. If I see a post which says I have just downloaded "Film X" and it is obvious that it is not legally available, i.e. not released on any home format, then I will close the post. The closed post forum is full of these types of post, many of which you don't see because they are closed, only moderators have access to the closed topic forum. Obviously some are missed, the moderators can not check every single post on these forums.

I appreciate there are some that slips through and many many more that never make it, but I was simply sommenting on a point virtualis made...
"...this has been discussed in the "moderator forum" before...and the stance we are taking is that unless otherwise stated, it is assumed that you have a right to that content..."
I fail to see how anything downloaded from a p2p programme is anything but illegal.
Anyone assuming that the person who has the file owns the original and the person downloading it also owns an original (but perhaps doesn't know how to back it up) is being rather niave (and that's being diplomatic)
Will

[Craig Tucker]

We cannot assume a persons guilt. If there is no possibility that what somebody is doing is legal then the post is closed. However if there is a possibility that it is not illegal, no matter how small that possibility is then who are we to judge.

Another example is CCE, a lot of people on these forums use it for encoding, I am sure that not everyone has paid the $2000 price tag, but some people have. How do I decide who is using it legally ?, I cant. Therefore innocent until proven guilty.

[Will Hay]

We cannot assume a persons guilt. If there is no possibility that what somebody is doing is legal then the post is closed. However if there is a possibility that it is not illegal, no matter how small that possibility is then who are we to judge.

Another example is CCE, a lot of people on these forums use it for encoding, I am sure that not everyone has paid the $2000 price tag, but some people have. How do I decide who is using it legally ?, I cant. Therefore innocent until proven guilty.

Yep, okay, good point, conceeded.
Considering my earlier post in the 'pete townsend' poll, I'm a little ashamed to have used the argument I did here.
Will

[arealgijoe]

8)

the music and movie studios are very big hipocrites! They rip off their artist any and every way they can and have done so for many decades.

After VCRs came out in the 70s, the industry complained very loud that it would hurt theaters. What happened? As people we able to copy movies, interest in movies increased as did ticket sales, not to mention studios marketing pre-recorded movies.

The industry complains loudly about people being able to make copies, but in the long run or bottom line it has helped them more than hurt them. That figure they avoid like a plague. What they like to quote is, xx illegal copies were made of such and such movie/s and note it as a loss.

Even a study of napster users showed that the bigger users of napster were also bought MORE, not less, original PAID music.

Back in the old days of LPs, remember them? I would make a tape copy, better than I could buy, play the tape and save the LP. If anything happened to the open reel or cassette tape I could go back to the LP and make a new copy for everyday use. Reasonable and fair.

When people are able to PROTECT their investment in music and/or movies They are MORE likely to buy even more music and movies than they would if they could not make backup copies.


To make a long story short, based on real life history;
Being able to make copies means MORE MONEY for the studios than they loose on pirate activity. They conviently leave out this factor in all their bitchin'

JD