Help with hard drives please

[staniks]

Current setup: 20GB master with Win XP and 40GB Slave

I have a Maxtor 20GB Hard drive (Master) but it keeps dropping frames.

The specs are:
• Fast ATA/Enhanced IDE compatible
• Digital Signal Processor (DSP)-Based Architecture
• Ultra ATA/100 Data Transfer Rate
• 2 MB SDRAM Cache Buffer
• < 12 ms Seek Time
• 5400 RPM

I also have a Maxtor 40GB hard drive (Slave) that captures fine

The specs are:
• Fast ATA/Enhanced IDE compatible
• Data Protection System
• Shock Protection System
• Ultra ATA/133 Data Transfer Rate
• 2 MB SDRAM Cache Buffer
• < 8 ms Seek Time
• 7200 RPM

BUT both drives are on the same channel so they run at UDMA 100.

Will the RPMs and Seek Times make that much difference?

Also even when the 20GB was slave it dropped frames.

I'm trying to figure out why this 20GB drops frames.

Thanks.

[mrtristan]

It's probably the RPM and seek times.

[marvel2020]

Well m8 you've answered your own question.

Just capture to your 40gb 7200 hardrive, like you said your not dropping any frames when you do.

Your master is only 5400rpm and for capturing a 7200 harddrive is recommended.

[staniks]

i didn't realize RPMs was that important. I thought the UDMA mode crucial and the drive being a Ultra 100 I thought it should be more than adequate to capture video.

I wanted to use the 20 as well as the 40gb because I run out of room quickly... you need to room to capture BUT you also need room to edit. thats something not stressed enough.

thanks for the replies

[Jester700]

RPMs is probably the most important spec for a video ATA drive (after DMA, but all modern ones are that). Even the ATA66 interface has enough bandwidth for any single IDE drive - the RPMs are the bottleneck when talking about sustained throughput.

[Nelson37]

NEVER capture to your OS drive. Windows does a number of drive operations which can interrupt data transfer.

Sustained Throughput Rate is the performance spec you need, it is a product of RPM, Seek Time, DMA mode, buffering, and controller architecture. All of these affect it but NONE of them determine it by itself, although without the actual number (not often quoted) RPM is probably the best single indicator. There are 5400 RPM drives with higher sustained data transfer rates than some 7200 RPM drives, but this is rare.

[crahak]

I find RPM's are overrated nowadays. I never dropped more frames on a 5400 rpm drive than on a 7200 personally. Also, not to mention most PVR's out there seem to use 5400 RPM drives (tivo, replaytv, BEV IRD's ...) Not saying it won't help, but it never was a problem for me at least.

[staniks]

I picked up a 80GB WD with 8MB buffer and put my 40GB as master and my system is flying again!

Should I Call maxtor and say the drive is messed up? I pulled out the drive and it was hot. I know drives get warm but this was ridiculous.

[Nelson37]

Drive manufacturers now all use a utility program which will test the drive and give an error code if there is a problem, no error code, no warranty return.

I have sometimes gotten around this by saying it says "error reading drive C:", or sector not found or some such, as these companies mostly have my name on file, but increasingly they are demanding that the utility report an error code before issuing an RMA.

This is a reasonable policy on their part, the utility is available for free on their websites. In your case, running hot is quite common and without any definite error you are probably SOL.

Also check your air circulation.

[epo]

Isn't it:
hot drive -> higher power consumption -> out of spec. -> faulty?

[Nelson37]

If its hot enough to blister your finger, well, yes.

Hot like a piece of toast right out of the toaster, no.

Some drives do run abnormally hot, some cases have poor air circulation around the drive bay. As I recall the upper end of the spec for drives is 160 to 180 F, if it is just hot and no errors, it is probably considered to be functioning "within design parameters".

What could be a factor is many drives have a problem in the power-down circuitry (thank the EPA for saving 5 watts) that results in their constantly spinning down and back up, this is clearly audible with the case off. This condition also does not usually give an error code on the test and is often accepted as proof of a failing drive, which would require a warranty replacement.

[hardwork12]

staniks

If its still under warranty replace it. Should have a 3 year warranty. New ones only carry 1 year now.

RMA it. I have many times and can be done on their website. Go here:

http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/service/warranty_ata.htm

Will walk you through the process and tells you if still under warranty (no receipt needed). For failure mode just put "head gets stuck" Frequently. This is a failure mode that needs no error code. Their tests will pass since the head is not "parked" for these tests and can not pick up this problem. They also know this "head getting stuck" is a common failure.

BTW: In all likelyhood you will get a better drive that your original Maxtor will not hold shipment of replacement if they do not have yours in a refurb they will ship the next best unit. Odds are you will get a 7200


Nelson37 is absolutely correct. Windows uses the hard drive for virtual memory for one thing and the less memory your system has the more this ties up the drive that is being used for the "swap file" and this is on the same drive as the OS by default.

[Codesmythe]

Hopefully this isn't considered 'topic hijacking'...

Nelson37 is absolutely correct. Windows uses the hard drive for virtual memory for one thing and the less memory your system has the more this ties up the drive that is being used for the "swap file" and this is on the same drive as the OS by ...

Would a partioned drive, i.e. a single 60 gig HDD configured as C:20 gig, G:20gig, H:20gig have the same OS system 'slow down' problem?

[Nelson37]

YES, its traffic to the drive that is the problem, partitioning does not help.

[Betamax]

Hi,
When drives are running hot, mostly this isn't a big problem.
Some drives even runs better when they are "hot".

For capturing, the best config would be to do it at a disk which is dedicated for video (1 large partition, best in NTFS) which is connected to another controller than at which the OS-drive is connected to.
RPM and UDMA is important, but so is the ide-controller too.
If you're doing something at a cdrom or disk which is connected to the same controller as the disk at wich you're capturing, it will interrupt all activities for the capture-disk, until finished (resulting in dropped frames).
Even, if you're system isn't fast enough you also will get dropped frames. The cpu should be fast enough to process OS specific tasks while capturing. Capturing mostly means a throughput of lots of data via the PCI-bus and your capture disk.

It doesn't matter if you've got a Maxtor disk. Although they haven't a good reputation, nowa days their disks are semely the same kind of quality like WD disks (not Seagate, they still are the best but you pay for that too). Modern Maxtor disks are at least 7200rpm and ATA-100.
For capture you can use Maxtor (be sure it's a 7200rpm and at least ATA-100 and that your ide-controller also supports ATA-100 and you're using the correct cables - there is a difference in the conventional IDE-cables (like you properly have at your CD-Rom drive(s)) and the one you need for those ATA-66+ drives.

regards,

[Nelson37]

I gotta disagree with the drive manufacturer comparison. Maxtor and Western Digital are my drives of choice. Seagate is a good make but they are the only company that has shipped me 8 drives, of which 6 failed within 30 days and the other 2 within 90. They have had several models with high failure rates, and have offered me nothing other than drive replacement.

Maxtors and WD's fail, as well, and they have had some bad models. However, they will often upgrade on the replacement at low or no cost, and I've never had a multiple drive failure as with Seagate. Warranties are the same and prices are lower, performance equal if not better.

[staniks]

thanks for all the replies... i will try the online RMA.

i've dealt with bad drives before and this on has all the signs of failing... may not have failed yet but thats a chance I don't want to take with my data

[Greg12]

I capture to my OS hard drive, but I make sure to shut down all non-system critical processors

[staniks]

hardwork:

here are my options:
Operating system errors
Bad sectors or clusters
Partitioning errors
Drive not spinning
Drive is noisy
Drive is not recognized by system

I don't see "head gets stuck" option... which one should I choose?

[staniks]

i tried all the options and only "Drive not spinning" and "Drive is noisy" but neither of these options are true. The drive is extremely hot and does not perform will at all. ie slow response time.

there is no additional space to provided extra problems.

i'd hate for them to get the drive and see that it does spin up and the drive is not noisy and just ship it back and i'm out shipping.

what should i do?

ps... old 40GB and new 80GB are in heaven together. no more O/S freezes, no dropped frames in capturing (yes i can capture to BOTH drives with no problems). I'd like to get this one fixed so I can use it in another computer.

thanks everyone again

[hardwork12]

Chose "Drive is not recognized by system" this obviously can have no other error code you can not run the diagnostics.

The disk will spin up even if the system is not able to be recognized by the system

I sent you a message with recommened text. The text was something like this:

Stating that the problem is intermittent should take care of it along with stating that a drive put in its place works flawless (rules out you IDE controller).

[ironwood321]

Some of the newer Maxtor fluid bearing drives operate more efficiently without all this heat loss. It also seems to have cured this wining which develops.

A little noise usally isn't a problem. You should here some of these old winchesters I have in an old machine. They sound like air raid sirens

[hardwork12]

I have one of the newer fluid bearing drives from maxtor also seems very good. But on the topic of RMA now all new drives manufactured after a certain date (not sure what the date is) now only have a 1 year warranty from Maxtor just so you all know. I still would take a maxtor over many other brands but i would have purchased an older Maxtor first with a 3 year warranty If I had known at the time

Yes I had, actually still have just not used, the old Barracuda SCSI drives always sounded like a helicopter taking off and HOT as H*LL and they were designed to take it. these new drives are best kept running cooler.

I still keep my primary master drive mounted below the 3.5 floppy drive where I have an in blowing case fan this keeps the drive nice and cool all the time just to be safe.