cool new package DVD2DVDR ... !

[cephraim]

sfxwe,

Thanks for the info.
So, is it the use of CCE that makes DVD2DVDR's quality so much better for DVD9 transcoding?

I used CCE in my DVD2SVCD days. Not a good comparison, I know, but the IQ from CCE was fairly good, considering...

Thanks again...

[wayned16]

yeah if u want the site denfense it is

http://faq.smokers-board.de/dvd/dvd2svcd_faq/CCE_HINWEISE.html

just incase you know a better translator, i used astavista.

[defense]

CastAway I would probably split to 2 DVDs as it is a very long movie.
LOTR I would probably split to 2 DVDs as it is a very long movie.

Not sure why people decide to come to this conclusion on these movies, as I have backed both of those up to 1 disk using 2 pass VBR and there is NO WAY you can tell the difference in Quality. I have excellent equipment and a 36' T.V. Not that the T.V is huge, but I don't prefer projection screens. The quality isn't as good, however, maybe I will go with HDTV in the near future. In addition, I did the same with TITANIC which is longer then them both. Again, quality is equal to the original. Can't tell ANY difference between the originals or the backups. I know many people also have the same belief on splitting certain movies to two disks..but I am not one of those people. Why would I split any movie to two disks when it looks like the original on one?

@ Wayne...I only know of that alta vista translator as well..so i'll just stick with the translation you posted. Well, now that I know the P4 and OC'ing has nothing to do with it...it appears it could be the new Avisynth. Anyone know why "avisynth" would cause this problem with CCE freezing in the middle? I guess I will apply that patch on 1.4.6 and see what happens.

[ArrogantBastard]

@defense

You might also want to try swapping the avisynth for version 2.07 instead of 2.08. It should have NO impact on the DVD2DVD-R program. Doom9 had a couple of posts about CCE version 2.50 freezing using avisynth 2.08.

Or you might want to try upgrading your CCE. That could solve it as well. I am totally with you about the patch. I would try a couple of quick things prior to patching. You might be able to get it to work without it.

Good luck buddy!
AB

[defense]

I am totally with you about the patch. I would try a couple of quick things prior to patching.

Sounds like a damn good idea "AB" didn't think of trying that, although, you are right, it's not like the MpegDecoders..it shouldn't have an impact. I will try that and then report back.

This version of CCE has been really good to me, maybe I'll get a newer version but if I can swap out avisynth for an older version..then I will try that first. I can just see it now..I end up patching and have something else end up being caused by running the patch. Also, noone has been able to specify exactly what CRC checking is, and why it is or is not needed when running CCE. That definitely concerns me. Thanks for that advice, and i'll report back after swapping avisynth.


@anyone, I just checked version 1.3.2 of DVD2DVDR and realized that there is NO Avisynth.dll in the folder. Did that version of DVD2DVDR use something else other then avisynth?

I'm just gonna copy the Avisynth.dll from my DVD2SVCD folder..it is avisynth 2.0.7. But can anyone tell me if it was normal for version 1.3.2 to NOT use avisynth?

[babaji]

@DEFENSE

DVD2DVD-R (CCE actually) also crashed on me a couple of time this week. I think from the log i gathered the last thing that it did was AVISYNTH. Then it struck me that i had installed an external version of AVISYNTH 2.08 it was an executable install routine package. I think I had to install it to get DOitFAST4u and DoCCE4u working. So i just uninstalled the new avisynth 2.08 through the control panel.

As you said DVD2DVD-R also uses 2.08 but maybe it was the other's registry tinkering that may have blown it. I cant remember if i had to reinstall DVD2DVD-R, but all is well now.

[defense]

@Babaji, interesting, report back whether the older version of avisynth works for you. Also, to answer your previous post, you should be running pulldown with "progressive" frames, and not just 2:3 pulldown w/ NTSC films. If you don't, you will have an issue with most films were the border will flicker rapidly. It could be the top border and it could be the bottom border. Check your movies closely, and if you don't see that issue, then you are lucky. Half of my reeconded movies needed to be reauthored and have progressive frames run prior with pulldown.

@ Anyone, I have viewed all of the log/history files for DVD2DVDR but can't find anything that says when AVISYNTH was introduced. As I mentioned, version 1.3.2 does NOT have AVISYNTH in its bundle. Can anyone confirm whether avisynth was used in versions 1.3.2? I assume it was, but how i'm I completing films with DVD2DVDR when it isn't in the DVD2DVDR folder?

[sfxwe]

@defense

Have you done LOTR, and if so, you did it on one DVDr....?

I have done LOTR and CastAway, each to one DVDr.....and man, I gotta tella ya, there were major quality problems !!!!!!

I have a very nice DVD Player and a new 65 HD Mitsu and I was very disappointed in the quality. I don't know why . Maybe I will do a screen cap and send you a pic if you don't mind. It was bad enough that I am thinking of doing each movie on 2 DVDrs.

When I ran DVD2DVDr I chose 4 passes, do you think its because I chose 4 passes it was pulling to much from the still scenes? The reason I asked is because the still or slower moving scenes are the ones that seem to be affected. Again it is not a slight quality but pretty sever IMHO..... If I did 2 passes maybe or a CBR it would come out better????? Can I send you a still pic from the computer so you can see what I mean?

[defense]

@sfxwe, I have watched LOTR on a big screen T.V and i'm tellin' you, noone could tell it was a copy. Even one friend asked why it didn't go to the "menu" first...lol...I said..that's my business....anyway, send the still shot to nfl__@hotmail.com Notice there are "two" underscores in that email address. I'm interested to see the still shot. As far as multiple passes in CCE go,

I think you did too many passes. There is still a big debate on whether more passes actually increase quality, or whether they degrade it. I have NEVER used more then 2 passes, and I almost always use 1 pass. However, on the three movies I mentioned above...Castaway, Titanic, and LOTR, I used 2 passes for each, and they look incredible to say the least.

I'm interested in seeing the quality of your output.

[sfxwe]

@defense

Ok I will send it to you, but it may not be until late tonight or tomorrow, as I won't be home till later. I need to go vist some people tonight.

So you have heard about multiple passes possibly degrading the film huh? That is interesting I might also try and do it with a CBR or 1 pass and compare it........to my 4 pass version.......

[babaji]

@defense

is the flicker you are talking about only right at the bottom or top edge only? I mean right at the border. or does it actually encroach on the usable video part.

for example if it is a 1.78:1 ratio that fills a widescreen tv perfectly. So if the tv was in 16:9 mode as opposed to 4:3 mode it would not be noticeable.?

If the move was super wide like 2.35:1 then the black border would always be seen?

what kind of a tv is this visable on? 4:3 standard. I will have to check this out cause they look ok to me but i dont want to make discs that only look good sometime.

Also DVD@SVCD makes NTSC and runs pulldown for you WITHOUT the switch, just curious why that program wouldnt set the pro_p switch for you aswell, after all that is a very refined program as you know it auto detects the force-film, field order for you and will sometimes run IVTC for you if needed. It just make me wonder.

When you get back in business with you CCE maybe you could test it for me with n/m set to 4 and no switches on th pullodown. As you would be able to re-create this effect or maybe not?


@sfxwe

I am a believer in 4 passes. but more importantly is the MIN and Max Bitrate setting. When you are looking at a long film with a low AVG bitrate you are better off manually adjusting the Min to 900 and the MAX to as high as it will go in DVD2DVD-R (like 7800 i think, why chatwalker had limited it there i dont know.!!! after all it will let you take your MIN right to ZERO which is theoretically the best setting as long as your authoring software allows)

For example i did three episode of the Sopranos on 1 disk, it was 160 mins or so. I used DVD2SVCD so i could set bitrates as follows:

MIN 1350
AVG 3400
MAX 9100

for the same episode with DVD2DVD-R it defaulted to

MIN 2272
AVG 3400
MAX 5113

I burnt both versions to 1 disk and compared the 2 encodes. Bet result was the really WONKY parts from the DVD2DVD-R encode was not nearly as bad on the DVD2SVCD encode. The results were quite good throughout apart for the funny parts like Gravel driveways etc.

Now I am not suggestting to use DVD2SVCD over DVD2DVD-R (actually if find DVD2DVD-R more convienient) Just try to set your MIN bitrate lower and your MAX as high as it will let you.

Why chat has set such a narrow range i dunno! I would like him to unlock the MAX setting in the future. Maybe we could sign a petition.


@ ALL

If anyone wants to read up on compression gops and sorts of info check out http://dvd-hq.info/News.html it deals mostly with TMPGEnc, but a lot of it applies to CCE aswell, there is also a good bitrate calc that runs without having any fancy plugins installed. Just select Utitlities from the sidebar then calculator. It may come in handy when using DVD2SVCD or other prorams.

[defense]

@Babaji, this problem ONLY occurs on movies which are of a 16:9 variety and have the borders...meaning they are 1:85:1 or 2:35:1. IF you view them on a widescreen TV, I assume the entire picture is taken up, right? If that is the case, then you probably won't notice it, as only the picture connecting with the border shows the issue. Sometimes it is on the top border, as it was with Spiderman, but most of the time, the issue is with the bottom border only. On a 4:3 T.V you will definitely notice it. I still can NOT figure out why ONLY half of those movies had the problem though. I'm thankful it was only half, but I just don't understand why the other half did NOT have this issue.

As far as DVD2SVCD goes, I am very familiar with how it runs pulldown and I believe the reason it doesn't run "progressive" frames within PULLDOWN is because it "properly" encodes the Video with "progressive" frames through CCE. That is one of the problems with version 1.3.2. As long as progressive frames are run after the encoding is complete, this issue will never surface. I am going to test the "Red Dragon" tonight which needs some good reencoding..with Avisynth 2.0.7 and see if CCE will complete at a 2 pass VBR.

@sfxwe, sounds good regarding your test of LOTR with 1 pass VBR, however, I would NOT use CBR for ANY movie, as it's file prediction can not be accurate, and you are just better off going with VBR. Use a 2 pass VBR along with the .VAF file, and you should see excellent quality. Let us know how it works out.

[sfxwe]

@defense

IF you view them on a widescreen TV, I assume the entire picture is taken up, right?

Nope you will still see the borfer as the film won't fill the screen.......

I just sent you an email with the pics there are 3......let me know what ya think......

Thanks

[defense]

@sfxwe, I just checked out those three pictures of the "river" seen in LOTR, and they are terrible to say the least. I would compare that to VHS quality. The aritfacts are heavily apparent. I'm just curious..what is the size of your T.V? Is it progressive scan? If you are currently reencoding with 2 PASS VBR, i'm interested in knowing if you can see much better quality.

[sfxwe]

@defense

The aritfacts are heavily apparent. I'm just curious..what is the size of your T.V? Is it progressive scan?

65" WideScreen and yes it is progressive scan......Mitsubishi I also have a 50" Mitsubishi reg BS TV, of course it isn't as nice as the 65" HD Progressive TV

I may not be able to do a 2 pass tonight, but I will try to do it soon.....

One other thing I noticed, as this is towards the end of the video, I wonder if it could be the DVD media itself?

[defense]

@sfxwe, there are plenty of still scenes in LOTR. I was going to ask you next what type of media do you use? It could be a problem with the media. Also, what speed do you burn at and with what burning program?

[rob w]

reading Chatwalkers board I have learned that his next release 1.4.7 will allow the Scenarist script to place subtitles in the film. I hope he will will also consider NTSC time codes for this important enhancement.

Chatwalker makes no prediction yet when this version will be ready.

[babaji]

@rob w

Good research rob w !! I can't wait. I tried to do some manually with two diff programs and guides on Scenarist. no luck, at least nothing satisfactory. I think he's got his work cut out for him.

BTW what do you mean NTSC timecodes, are you talking about drop frame as it relates to subs?

[rob w]

I got some answers to my questions on the Chatwalker board.

Chatwalker says that he may need to alter his calculations (time code) to make subtitles work with NTSC video. He regrets that he has only one NTSC disc and that does not contain subtitles. (Hey, someone send him some discs ). He believes that he will have it working sometime soon for NTSC - but I take that to mean that we can expect it to come after 1.4.7.

My expectation is that we need to take a look at what 1.4.7 produces in terms of timecode. Do a careful analysis similar to was sfxwe did for mpegdecoder. If we can clearly show what needs to be "fixed" it will make the job easier for chatwalker and we will all benefit.

(NTSC timecode is complex because film starts out at 30 fps and is converted to 23.976 for encoding and then back to 30 with 2:3 pulldown. Then rff flags must be set so that it actually plays back on your stand alone at 29.97 fps. Without taking these issues into account, the subtitles can easily be displayed in a way that they are out of sync. This can all be fixed with some fiddling of the timecodes in the subtitles but it takes some effort.)

[defense]

@ AB, I swapped out avisynth for 2.0.7 and the SAME EXACT thing occurred. CCE froze when encoding the .M2V file. Any other suggestions? This really sucks, I may just have to try this patch out and see what happens.

[wayned16]

when u changed to 2.07 did u change the avisynth script in dvd2dvdr back to resampleaudio(41000) (or what ever it was) from addaudio()
??

[ArrogantBastard]

@defense...

So 2.07 won't fix it huh? The only other thing I can think of is changing the version of CCE. But that is a total shot in the dark. I would probably try that before trying the patch...

Although you can always try the patch. There must be something with your machine that is different than the rest of us. Do you have avisynth installed as well? Check in your %SYSTEMROOT%\system32 directory. Maybe there is a version out there that is taking preference.

I hope you find it though.
AB

[JWhit]

Defense,

Just wanted to let you know, I had a similar problem with the checksum error, when going from 1.3.5 to 1.3.6. To correct this, I switch the avisynth dll from version 2.07 back to 2.06. Once I did this I was able to get past this error. However, I then had audio / video synch problems. This was corrected in version 1.4.6. I have now updated to avisynth to version 2.08 and seem to be running fine except for rip speeds. It is taking over 2 hours to rip using DVD2DVDR. I can rip at 2x with DVD decryter, but then I can not use DVD2DVDR.

PS: first post, so please forgive me if I am off track. Still trying to learn.

Hope this helps.

[defense]

Although you can always try the patch.

What's up "AB"...yep..that is exactly what I decided to do and guess what...NO ERRORS at all! I finally got CCE 2.5SP to finish with no problems. That is definitely a first with 1.4.6. I took Wayne's advice here as well as others that have applied that CCE patch and decided to do it. I'll see if I can notice any other differences or problems, but if others have used it with other versions and there hasn't been a problem, then I doubt i'll see one.

Jwhits info shows that it may very well be "AVISYNTH" causing this issue, at least for certain people, but the patch allowed me to finally get a full movie WITH pulldown complete using 1.4.6. Thanks to all for your help..it was MUCH APPRECIATED, and as long as I don't see any problems arising from running the patch, I will be able to test the newer versions along with everyone else. Thanks for all the help and info!

[sfxwe]

@defense........

Empty your email, lol, I'm trying to send you the new screen caps.....

[wayned16]

Nice one defense glad to see you applied it after all. Have you done a start>search for avisynth on your pc? One might be hiding somewhere, causing you these problems, btw i have no problems with the CRC patch with any version of DVD2DVDR.

[defense]

@sfxwe, that sux that hotmail only gives 2mb of free space. I think i'm gonna have to switch to another pop3. Anyway, it's clear now..send em..i'm interesting in seeing them.


@Wayne, I never did the search because I am sure avisynth isn't lurking around somewhere...because a few days ago I completely partiitioned and formatted my hard drive. I then installed individual programs..so there must be some other reason I was getting that error. Anyway, the patch worked perfectly..at least it appears to have....when I watch the movie i'll confirm for sure..but it looks great for now. Thanks again for the info on that patch!

[ArrogantBastard]

@defense...

Congrats... I am glad it worked for you. 1.4.6 has been rocking... Although I really need to look into this chapter thing in Scenarist because I am wondering how far off it really gets. I saw some posts that it may be four seconds but I am wondering if it might be even more.

I have tried both drop_frame enabled and disabled... But i really haven't done a good analysis yet.

I hope 1.4.7 has the Scenarist subtitle integration. That is really the only thing lacking (besides maybe a chapter bug). How is everyone else doing on the latest version?

I'll let you know if I find anything additional on the Scenarist chapter bug. I doubt I will but I have nothing better to do on a lazy Sunday. Ski season is over for me. Babaji has posted some great analysis and a good work around on Chatwalkers site for anyone else who is bored.

AB

[sfxwe]

@defense


Just sent ya the new screens caps,........so check ur mail

[sfxwe]

@all

Question for everyone......

Is anyone using a newer version of CCE (newer than 2.50) and if so, is it faster , better ? Can u use it with the new decoder.....?

Just looking for some input on anything for the newer versions of CCE....