cool new package DVD2DVDR ... !

[sfxwe]

One more thing, I also did the Bourne Identity, which we watched and seemed ok, OTHER than the time flickering. But I erased this, for the reason being, when I played it using DTS I would loose the audio (no sound would play), I would quick switch from DTS to ac3 and then back and the audio would start playing again. This is another reason why I think I will only use one audio track from now on.

Question, do you guys use both ac3 and DTS? If so why? If not, and both are available, which one do you pick and why?

If I choose DTS and my amp / decoder doesn't support DTS will the DVD player down mix it to something that I can hear. AS it stands, my amp / surrond sound system does support DTS, but I don't know if my Play Station does or doesn't or if I play it somewhere else will I not hear the audio if the other systems don't support DTS. Does anyone have an answer to this? Just curious, and again, just trying to learn so I can do this propely once I get a good system down!!!!!

[defense]

I think I made a mistake, and I truly apologize......... not thinking properly as I am so excited about DVD2DVDr finishing all the way, my aligator mouth over ran my hummingbird a$$ .

@sfxwe, LOL...I've heard alot of sayings, but I've never heard that one. Funny! Anyway, no problem at all.

Just to let you know, the ONLY movie that I did which was in your list was Harry Potter, and it was 25% shorter authored with IFOEdit, as all the rest that I have tested. robw did extensive research on this problem, because it was initially said to just be a "time" issue. Meaning that the film would actually be the full length, the time indicator, however, would make it appear shorter. robw actually tested several movies, as well as looked into the actual .ifo files, etc, and concluded that it was ABSOLUTELY a bug. And the movies authored with IFOEdit were ABSOLUTELY playing 25% faster. The reason had something to do with the fact that it was playing movies at 29.97, instead of 23.97. I'm not an expert on the technical aspect of frames, but I believe most of our progressive films are native 23.97 fps Progressive, and we make them 29.97 Progressive with the pulldown flags.

Hopefully robw can reiterate his test results again so you don't have to hunt them down within this monster thread. But I can assure you, the film is 25% shorter, and it isn't just a time issue. If taking a 2 hour movie down to 1/1/2 hours doesn't bother a person, then I would say to use IFOEdit as it's much easier to get subs with IFOEdit. I always use Maestro, because I personally couldn't have a movie play 25% faster. Anyway, as I mentioned before, this bug was originally believed to just be "pulldown" which caused the bug. I tested this with .m2v files and the same EXACT problem occurs. As a result, I am VERY FORTUNATE, that I ONLY had 2 movies which I authored with IFOEdit, and I've redone those with Maestro.

I never use IFOEdit to author my films. I do use IFOEdit for other things, but just not to author. Too bad Derrow sold out to 321 studios, because IFOEdit may be the next thing he sells to them. Even if he doesn't, the chances of him being able to update it any further, at least any time soon, are slim to none. Oh well, I guess you can't kick a gift horse in the mouth. Fortunately, there are other methods such as "Maestro" which can accomplish what I need. By the way, if you happen to test some movies over the weekend, and you can say for sure that they are the same length as the original, authored with IFOEdit, please make sure to report those results. Thanks

[ArrogantBastard]

@sfxwe

I second the request for a DVDMaestro authoring mode. IFOEdit is great but unfortunately the pulldown bug limits me.

The Scenarist script would be nice... But if I had a choice an automated option that used DVDMaestro instead of IFOEdit would be great. It would bring this product over the top.

As a last thought though... Every one of us should make sure he contributes to the efforts of Chatwalker. Even if it is small, he has done one hell of a job and if we are going to ask for enhancements we should show a little appreciation. Just my 2 cents.

AB

[sfxwe]

@defense

Ok, here goes........

I have my Harry Potter DVD+RW in my Set Top Player.......I have been watching it for an hour. I have my original Harry Potter DVD in my laptop playing as we speak. Of course I have started each movie at the same time (well, lol, withing 1/2 a sec, I am human ya know, lol) Anyways, exactly 1 hr into the movie and it is still within that 1/2 sec of play time to play time from one dvd to the other. Now I am really wondering what is going on.

Again......the only thing I have noticed is the time on my set top is flickering back and forth between 2 different sets of time. I have been watching boths screens and the set top doesnt seem to play faster and then slower then faster etc..... meaning the movie is not speeding up and then slowing down. It SEEMS to be playing at a nice steady speed.


I wonder what type of DVD player that other guy had, that had posted in this thread, with the same results as mine.....I have a Sony DVP-NC 655P I am now wondering it the DVD player is correcting for this error. I know this sounds stupid, but again, as I have mentioned in this thread, my owners manual states something about supporting pulldown. I have 2 other DVD players, one being a PS and the other being another Sony, but like 4 years old. Maybe tomorrow I will hook them both up and see what they do with this disk. I wonder if the other players will play the DVD faster ? But I swear........both DVDs the BU and the Original, are keep in synch with each other......

What to do, What to do.........

@sfxwe, defense and other friends

Looks like you guys have been busy tonight. Too many posts to read so I'm jumping right in. It seems the debate is over IFOEDIT authoring. Did I get that right? I won't go too far for now until I'm sure that's the issue. If it is just use IFOedit on the final produced product of IFOedit and compare it to the main movie ifo on the original disk. You will see fewer frames and less play time. Ifoedit authors without understanding pulldown so you only get 80% of the orignial frames. Audio stays perfectly syncd. Sounds wierd doesn't it. Same movie, audio in sync but plays with fewer frames and you can't really tell. Hell, maybe you like it that way so you get the movie over quicker but you know ... you really do want the whole movie right?

read a little more of the posts and want to add:
the issue is with ifoedit authoring and that has been confirmed by many other users doing NTSC film including many that don't use DVD2DVD-R. After your run pulldown the frames are just tagged in the MPEG file the frames aren't really put in. When you author this is suppose to occur and it does with Maestro but not with IFOedit.

This stuff has of course already been covered so you should probably go back and read about the issue. Also doom9 has a very good forum on ifoedit issues.

[wayned16]

I run Norton Anti virus 2003 pro and DVD2DVDR 1.3.8 hangs on me. Im gonna disable everything what has been said in this post, i will be Transcoding tonight and will let you know how i get on in the morning.

HOPE THIS WORKS.

Thanks guys.

PS. I have had no successful conversions with DVD2DVDR completing all tasks. So if this works tonight, NAV is deffinetely the problem.

[dreadogg]

Im pretty upset right now, first of I just reencoded this movie "serving Sara" and then compiled it through meastro and I am still way off sync with the audio to the video, I had previously posted this I have used DVD2DVDR 1.3.5 can someone help me out kinda getting agervated about this. I have done like 6 movies without anyflaws till now, this movie is out to get me!

[ozzie]

@dreadogg

I too had the problems with audio synch in every version above 1.3.4 doing NTSC. I know that doesn't help much but maybe you should try 1.3.4 and see if it works for you. Out of all of the different versions that, in my opinion, has been the most stable and reliable. Although I am anxiously awaiting the newest version

success. I disabled NSW 2003 including script blocking and version 1.3.8 completed. This is the first time this version has finished for me. I will now check that the authored program is syncd, etc.

Has anyone played further with NSW? I am wondering if disabling script blocking is enough to allow DVD2DVD-R to finish. It may not be necessary to completely disable NSW. I would feel better leaving most of the antivirus program working.

[dreadogg]

I guess I'll try updating to 1.38 tonight, then if this fails I'm gonna try 1.34, then if this fails I'm probally gonna break something!

[defense]

@sfxwe, Wow, looks like you've solved the bug for NAV AND DVD2DVDR. I'll wait to hear what robw reports as far as any issues/bugs or sync problems. If there aren't any, then i'll be installing the latest version quickly. Now that the problem seems to be NAV, I'm wondering why earlier versions don't have this issue, but the latest version does.


Anyway, as far as your backup and original go, as robw mentioned, you won't be able to notice a "visible" different when just watching the backup, but the backup will definitely play faster then the original. I think all standalones support pulldown, and i'm not sure why they mention that. My standalone supports every damn format imaginable, and I still got the movie playing faster. Like robw said, it plays 80% faster, because there are fewer frames. It's not just a time issue. Harry Potter is a little over 2 hours long I believe. Put in the backup of Harry Potter and watch it all the way through. Make note of the EXACT time you started the movie, and I would be willing to bet that Harry Potter will finish in about 1 and 1/2 hours on the backup. You won't notice ANY difference, because it is every so slight. Losing a few seconds here, a few seconds there, a few frames here, and a few frames there.

Test tha tmethod out of just watching one and not pausing it, letting it play ALL the way through, you should see the problem at the end for sure. Again though, please report your results. I'm interesting in hearing.


@robw,

After your run pulldown the frames are just tagged in the MPEG file the frames aren't really put in.

I've tested this on any NTSC .m2v file by just ripping the .m2v file, as well as the .AC3 file, and authoring in IFOedit, and I get the same problem. The movie has fewer frames and ends 20-25% faster. Is this because the .m2v file already has pulldown in it? I'm thinking that is what it is. But I just wanted to clarify, IFOEdit also has problem with .m2v files that have just been ripped, and not re-encoded. Let me know what you think. Also, please let us know if there are any issues with your first successful reencoded movie with 1.3.8. Thanks

[wayned16]

dreadogg i dont know why u are having problems with serving Sara i did it a couple of days ago with no hassle. But i never used DVD2DVDR to transcode it. Try ripping the AC3 file again from the origanal disk. It might be currupt.

@defense
It has to do with how frames are made. When you do pulldown you are setting things up so that your player will create an interlaced video playable on your TV. As you know interlaced is really a combination of even and odd frames. Since these are coming from film there is a conversion process that basically is splitting the individual frames to make the interlace. The sequence is 2 3 2 3 etc frames. That's why its called 2:3 pulldown. I believe I gave some links to the details of this earlier so you may want to check back into the acient history of this thread. Bottom line is that when the interlaced is finally made there is a ratio whereby every 4 or the original film frames become 5 full interlaced frames. Basically out of every 5 full television frames on frame has been repeated. So 4 frames become 5. Bottom line is that IFOedit doesn't do this right so instead of setting it up for 5 frames it still is sticking with 4 frames. That's why is only has exactly 80% of the original frames (4 out of 5).

That was a really brief overview, maybe enough to satisfy curiousity, but if you want more the web is filled with information on telcine, 2:3 pulldown, etc.

robw

Now that the problem seems to be NAV, I'm wondering why earlier versions don't have this issue, but the latest version does.

The version I was using 1.3.4 also hung, just not as often. It seemed to be on the ragged edge of this problem. Not sure why. Also am puzzled why DVD2SVCD which also uses this encoder seems so insensitive to this hanging issue.

[ArrogantBastard]

Well all...

I finally had a chance to sit back down and see if my encode went well. It didnt. Unfortunately there was a audio sync problem on the new movie. DVD2DVD-R versio 1.3.8, CCE, DVD Maestro. The source was an NTSC Chasing Amy that I had ripped to my hard drive. Audio was off by about 6 seconds.

Not ready to call it a bug yet though. Too many things I have not tried. I am working on a copy of The Astronaughts Wife right now. Interestingly this DVD is not encrypted and the rip time using DVD2DVD-R was 13 minutes. Pretty good if you ask me. I am wondering if I get a Lite-On DVD that my encrypted DVD's would rip faster. Usually takes about 55 minutes or so now.

I will keep you all posted on my own results. Curious to hear if others are having an audio sync problem. Has anyone who speaks German taken a look to see if this is a known problem in Chatwalkers forum?

AB

[sfxwe]

Ok ...... here it goes again, lol.

1st. All versions of DVD2DVDr would hang for me at times and not hang at times, dunno why? /me shrugs

2nd. Maybe Chatwalker uses different programming and this is why his is more sensitive to NAV.

3rd. Maybe V1.3.8 is worse because as he has updated it, he has changed some things, dunno.......

@robw and defense

Guys I BELIEVE you, I swear I do, BUT......... I also swear I am telling the truth when I say this..... I watched HP (DVDr BU)in both my Sony set top players AND had the original playing on my laptop...... and it matched frame for frame......I dunno why, but I gues I won't be using IFOEdit to author any more, sniff sniff, as I don't want to take a chance.

Also I forgot.....I played HP (DVDr BU) in my kids PS and it would play then freeze, play then freeze.....etc So I do agree there is a problem. But again the only thing I noticed in the set top players is the time flickering in the display. Other than that, the play lenght was correct and the frames matched from TV to LapTop. /me SHRUGS again........

Now I have a question.....? Are you guys saying that in version 1.3.8 there is an audio problem. If I BU a DVD and author in Maestro, I will get audio sync problems?


Update to NAV....... I have now tested DVD2DVDR 6 times and it has completed every time /me so HAPPY.....although
I will have to use the raw m2v and audio and author is meastro by hand .

Sorry for the long posts......

@sfxwe
Could you do the following. Start IFOedit and using the original DVD open the ifo of the main movie (probably VTS_01_0.IFO. In the lower window look at the PGC_1 and you will see on this first line the play time for the main movie. Below this line you will see the individual chapters with the number of frames for each. Compare this information with that authored by IFOedit and I believe you will see there are only 80% of the play time and only 80% of the frames for each and every chapter. If this is different for you I'll be very suprised since it was that way for me and was reported the same way by many others.

update 1.3.8: So far NO sync problem by me but I've only done one fim. Will keep you posted

[defense]

thanks again robw and sfxwe for the info. robw, I have version 1.3.2 and have never had a single hanging issue or any other issue for that matter. That is why I still use 1.3.2. I guess every version since has some other noticable problems. On another note, robw, you took the words out of my mouth. sfxwe, when you get a second, please check what robw has asked, and report your results. What you are saying almost seems incredible, and I'm hoping you are correct, so I can use IFOEdit to author too..lol. Let us know..thanks

[malducci]

@defence...."I think all standalones support pulldown, and i'm not sure why they mention that."

Yes, but not all DVD players are created equally and I don't just mean picture qualty

check out this link.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=5

and this link for further explainations..

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_1/dvd-benchmark-guide-to-progressive-scan-sho...ut-1-2003.html

Some DVD players will go beyond just reading the FLAGS and have intelligent algorithams for video decoding

[sfxwe]

Ok I will check, give me about 20 min or so...... gotta eat ya know.......

@robw......bro I really do believe ya...... Again I am just wondering why 2 of my sony players play it correctly, and all I am saying is I think it might be the player correcting for this problem ???????? But hell I dunno.

BBL

well malducci's post certainly is convincing that there are differences in performance that go beyond simple video playback quality.

So sfxwe let us know what you find out. It might turn out the your player is doing something that mine does not. I will tell you when I first ran into this problem with IFOedit I got out my stopwatch and started timing my standalone player .... I was plenty suprised because I freely admit that the movie I was viewing looked great and was playing back in what seemed like the correct speed. Audio was perfect but darn the movie was over in 80% of the time it should have taken.

If you do find out that your particular player overcomes this issue then you'll need to decide if you will encode just for your particular player or whether you'll be better off encoding for a future time when you have a different player. Frankly, I'd go for the most compatible solution. Really the alternative is not that much trouble.

[sfxwe]

@robw......

Again bro, you are correct, and I hope you did not assume I was saying you were wrong, as I don't know enough about this stuff to say such a thing. Hence all the questions I always ask, lol.

IFOEdit IFO = 2.01.45.19 (for play time)
Original IFO = 2.32.12.09 (for play time)

And of course the frames are about 80% smaller for each chapter. Of course I just eye balled them, as I didn't break out the ye old calc..... but just looking it seems they are.

I still MUST SAY though, it plays fine in 2 of my Sonys, why I don't know. I timed each movie and also watch one on my laptop as the other played in my Stand Alone, both DVDs played for the full play time as indicated on the box. /me shrugs. Again, the time display was going wacko though , which probably shows that it was having to do something abnormal to make the DVD play correctly . I hope this isn't hurting my set top player ???????? Not Good, Not Good.

Of course I WON'T be using IFOEdit to author as then If my Sony ever broke and I had to get another I would be SCREWED . Sniff Sniff.

yeah I know, it plays fine. Heck if you're in a hurry to get through the movie you don't have to sit in front of the tube as long with IFOedit, a clear advantage

final comment: don't trust the clock on your player, it may just be reading the play time from the DVD which has a time code but its not following "real time". That's why I said in an earlier post that I took out my stopwatch. I literally did that. The time on the player is wrong!!

[sfxwe]

@robw

I did too, timed it with a watch. If you look back in this thread and look at my posts, you will see I had the same post regarding Wind Talkers. With Wind Talkers I also timed it with a stop watch.......and it played the full play time.

Hey quick question, if I rip subs with Sub Rip, and import into maestro, will force subs play? I guess what I am asking is this. Does Sub Rip set certian subs to force mode in Maestro?

Also, if I use DVD2DVDr to rip subs , audio tracks etc....so the movie will fit onto one DVDr WITHOUT RE-ENCODE. WIll this IFOEdit bug still screw me? Or should I be using Maestro for DVDs where as ripping the extra audio subs etc....will then fit onto a DVDr without re-encode? Or or it be safe to use DVD2DVDr to rip, remux and author with IFOEdit?


Quick edit, the time on the disply for the DVD set top was not even close to real time. It showed like 80% slower time on one and on the other set top, LOL...... It was at times ONE complete hour off. Go figure that, lol.

I haven't done force subs myself. So far all the subs that are essential in a movie (say U571 where they are speaking in German) have been part of the movie itself. BUT, as I recall you can right click on the subtitle line and (I think) call up properties and then set it as +CC (closed caption). But, as I say, that's a bit of new ground for me ... just haven't needed it. As I said somewhere else, I'm not a big fan of subtitles. Either I watch a movie or read a book. I haven't figured out how to read and watch the movie at the same time

Ok, on the second part of your question. If you can see in DVD2DVD-R that on taking out some audio tracks no reencode is necessary then I usually quit out of DVD2DVD-R. There are much easier ways to do things in this case. Originally, the way I did such situations was to use IFOedit and just strip out the streams that you don't want. There's a guide to this process if you wish I can find a link for you. But now, I use DVD2one in this situation. DVD2one does no transcoding when the movie is less than one DVD so this is a perfect situation to use it. It is unbelievably fast for this situation and I use it. Also, I admit that when a movie is just a little over 1 DVD I will consider using DVD2one (haven't done it yet but why not, there will be little transcoding and so little loss of quality in this particular situation). I save DVD2DVD-R for cases where the video is in the 5.5 to 7+ GB range.

But back to your question. If you rip a video with DVD2DVD-R and it does not require encoding then you still CAN NOT count on IFOedit. The problem is that the original author probably had pulldown and drop_frame code in the video and these are part of the stripped MPEG you now have. They won't get authored correctly with IFOedit. Bummer!! But still, once you get used to Maestro its nice to stick to that process for your authoring so you're not constantly jumping around between software. That way you get to know one process very well. That's the way I feel about it anyway.

[ozzie]

For those who thought I was smoking crack. I have been trying to rip "Outlaw Josey Wales" for about a week (about 6 times) and every time it hung on CCE with no pulldown. I was using 1.3.4 for NTSC with all possible processes closed, no internet connection and no antivirus. So today, after my theory of "adware" I decided to try something. I ran Josey Wales again but this time I left my internet connection on and ripped an avi in TMPG in the background while I did it and it went all the way through and did the pulldown. Hows that! So crack or not, my theory is, that you need some sort of long lasting process running like an avi rip or some sort of big download or something in the background along with an interent conncetion. If Im wrong then Im wrong, but its worked now twice for me and now I am trying the other movie I had trouble with. Will post results if anyone is interested....let me know

[defense]

@malducci, thank you for the links, but I am aware of the differences between players. I was just referring to 2:3 pulldown, no more. @ sfxwe, Sony DVD Players are terrible as far as "multiformat" because of Sony's position in piracy. They will get much better. All of my equipment is Sony EXCEPT for my standalone DVD player which is Philips. The Philips 724 AT31.

And it has to be THE most Vesatile in the market. That thing would read a pancake! I've played XCVCD, KVCD, SVCD, VCD, and many others in this player, and it plays them all FLAWLESSLY! As far as the frame issue, that is VERY ODD that your .IFO file shows one thing, but you are saying another. I don't doubt you, but the truth is, even if "YOUR" player, played these disks fine now, what happens in the future when this DVD player breaks and you need another one? You'd be shit out of luck. I would just stick with Maestro and not worry about all the other crap.

Even if it were just a "time" error, I still "personally" would not be satisfied with that disk, and would have to have one that is correct, just as the original. But that is me. Maybe i'm a perfectionst. Anyway, thanks for the info and I look foward to hearing from EVERYONE on more test results with the disabling of those functions in NAV. Thanks

[sfxwe]

#$!$!$%! Man, I have spent now 6 freakn hours trying to get Subs to sync . I don't get. I have tried every possible option in Sub Rip, and I have switched between the ripped m2v and the final m2v and still can't get them to sync . I even went into the trash can and found a m2v from the DVD2DVDr process and tried using that, but Maestro won't import it.

Can anyone help me. Please.......I haven't made a BU yet (other then IFOEdit mode, )

DVD2DVDR v1.3.8 - SubRip V1.15

I think I am choose the wrong settings for NTSC, but I checked all 3 boxes for it. Force Film - PullDown - Drop Frame. Subs won't sync for me but the audio seems to, at least in maestro real view it does.

I have read the guide at Doom9 and DHLukes site like a trillion times, should I go back to V1.3.5?

Anyone else having problems?

Thanks......

[sfxwe]

NM, I think I figured it out.....I ran pulldown with the GUI on the original m2v that DVD2DVDr stripped out, and selected the remove RFF check box and also selected the last 2 for progressive. I used the newly created m2v in Maestro to import the chapters and the subs
and they finally synched. Then I just replaced the video with the one created from DVD2DVDr and CCE.

@robw or defense.........

What would happen if I ran DVD2DVDr without selecting the drop frame?

I know I need to choose force film for CCE & NTSC for proper encoding for NTSC. I know I need pull down so picture won't stutter and play jerky. Can we get away without the drop flag though?

I thought I read that robw said it told the DVD to drop certian frames for NTSC so it would play properly?

@defense
The only time you really need to run drop_frame is when you are going to include subtitles. But also keep in mind that when you run ChapterXtractor you have to use the format compatible with how you ran pulldown. So

with drop_frame use this format in ChapterXtractor hh:mms;ff

w/o drop_frame use this format with ChapterXtractor hh:mms:ff

So to sum up: No subtitles use either method
with subtitles: use drop_frame