VirtualDub doesnt work with my capture card.

[paulgab]

I'm using Pinnacle PCTV-PCI gen5 and PowerDirector for capturing AVI and MPEG. So far I'm sartisfied with what I'm getting. But as I visit this forum more often, I noticed that VDub is the most popular and prefered software for capturing. So I also downloaded VDub and tried it on my rig. Unfortunately, there's an error if VDub capture is opened. Error is as follows:

' You cannot use this device when another application is already using it .
To use this device for your current application, close the application that is using it.' This one comes out even if VDub is the only open apps.

'VirtualDub cannot connect to the desired capture driver.'

Do I need to update my capture card's driver?
Has anyone encountered this error in VDub?

Any suggestions is very much appreciated!

[paulgab]

I'm using Pinnacle PCTV-PCI gen5 and PowerDirector for capturing AVI and MPEG. So far I'm sartisfied with what I'm getting. But as I visit this forum more often, I noticed that VDub is the most popular and prefered software for capturing. So I also downloaded VDub and tried it on my rig. Unfortunately, there's an error if VDub capture is opened. Error is as follows:

' You cannot use this device when another application is already using it .
To use this device for your current application, close the application that is using it.' This one comes out even if VDub is the only open apps.

'VirtualDub cannot connect to the desired capture driver.'

Do I need to update my capture card's driver?
Has anyone encountered this error in VDub?

Any suggestions is very much appreciated!

[kayfam]

paulgab,
I understand your frustration in trying to get an answer, but bumping your post in less than 7 minutes isn't going to get your answer any faster. This isn't a real time chat and it may take a while before someone who had a similar experience can help you out. Please don't take this as a criticism, but the mods here frown on bumping posts too frequently.

[dcapp1]

I have the same problem with Vdub. I am using an ATI TV Wonder VE, and everytime I open Vdub, I get an error "Cannot detect capture device".
I have been trying to get help with no success. My advice to you is use the capture software that came with your card or find another program to capture with.


To the author of VirtualDub: Why dont you focus your energy on fixing the bugs in your software, and spend less time directing people away from your site.

[gll99]

paulgab:

virtualdub does not work with wdm drivers. You have dualboot so with win98se you may possibly have vfw drivers or wdm depending on availability for your card. With XP it should work through the NT wrapper unless your drivers are incompatible.

dcapp1:

I don't know what you ate for breakfast but temper temper...

The guy gave us a fantastic free app but it does not work directly with wdm drivers. You are running winme and I don't know if the wrapper works with ME.

[paulgab]

paulgab,
I understand your frustration in trying to get an answer, but bumping your post in less than 7 minutes isn't going to get your answer any faster. This isn't a real time chat and it may take a while before someone who had a similar experience can help you out. Please don't take this as a criticism, but the mods here frown on bumping posts too frequently.

kayfam,

Thanks for reminding. I did not intend to re-post that soon. I encountered some problem in my PC, while trying to close some apps and going back to my browser, made some "navigational error".

Anyway, thanks for your reply guys those were nice infos. I guess I have to settle for a while with PowerDirector. I will try it also on XP.

[paulgab]

[quote="gll99"]paulgab:

virtualdub does not work with wdm drivers. You have dualboot so with win98se you may possibly have vfw drivers or wdm depending on availability for your card. With XP it should work through the NT wrapper unless your drivers are incompatible.

gll99,

I remember I already tried VDub on my XP and I got the same error. Does this "NT wrapper" works automatically? Do I have to tweak some settings on XP? Thanks again

[gll99]

Try this link for the wrapper to use with XP

http://<a class="contentlink" href="http://shopgeo.virtualave.net/wrapper.zip" target=...rapper.zip</a>

I don't know if its compatible with your card's original drivers.

If not you may be able to use "tweaked" wdm drivers depending on the chipset of your card.

If it doesn't work, post again.

[xed]

With all due respect, VirtualDub does not appear to work with _any_ capture card known to exist in the circumambient universe, at _any_ time, by _any_ known tweaks or mods.
Appeals to the author of VirtualDub are, alas, futile. The fellow who wrote VirtualDub has since stopped devlopment, so it is highly unlikely that VirtualDub will be upgraded to fix its known bugs at any time in the foreseeable future.
VirtualDub remains a potentially wonderful tool whose potential is out of bounds for (I'm guessing here, but it seems reasonable) upwards of 90% of the users of home digital video.
VirtualDub not only fails to work with all known capture cards at any time by any means for any reason by any known tweaks or mods...VirtualDub also refuses to open well over (again I'm guessing here) 90% of the AVI files out there.
Specific examples: VitualDub will_not_ open AVI files created by Ulead Media Studio Pro 6.x. VirtualDub will _not_ open AVI files created with Adobe Premiere 6.X.
---
It is remotely remotely that there exist some digital video capture cards manufactured somewhere in the circumsambient universe which actually work with VirtualDub. If so, I have never found any.
It is an equally remote possibility that VirtualDub can actually open some AVI file created by some software, or software/hardware combination. Once again, I have never been able to find such an .AVI file.
The solution to dealing with VirtualDub, in my experience and in the experience of everyone else I have ever met who works with home digital video, is simple -- treat VirtualDub as though it doesn't exist.
Because for all practical purposes, VirtualDub does not exist. It's a magnificent digital video tool that doesn't work with any digital video software or any digital video hardware anyone is likely to have or likely to use.
Thus, advice involving "use VirtualDub" boils down to that wonderful line on Star Trek- The Next Generation when the Enterprise crew encounters a problem and Q advises them, "The solution is simple -- merely change the universal constant of gravitation!"
Simple indeed.
Also impossible.
Therefore useless, worthless, and pointless as a suggestion.

[rhuala2]

Amen, that's solidifies the conclusion I have been coming too. yet all throughout this website especially in the Tools area they always refer to VirtualDub as this 'Excellent Tool'. I wish they would update this site. I am using Windows XP with a GeForce 4 capture card and VirtualDub keeps slapping me in the face. It won't capture anything properly, crashes half the time and won't let me select may options.

I have basically came to the conclusion that if you are running an old copy of Windows then maybe you can get it working for you. I edit with it sometimes but it won't even crop properly for me anymore, leaves these green lines in the vidoe. I've been using VirtualDub for about 2 years now for editing and recently trying to get it to capture but have decided to finally retire it's Jersey.

xed, will you please tell me what you are using to edit, especially crop large .avi and mpeg2 files. I am using Adobe PRemier 6.0 but find it saves it in this god awful .avi format, which forces me to another compression...

Basically I am capturing/processing like this:

1. Capture using Virtual VCR using Morgan Media J Codec, 640x480 Quality=90%
2. Trim crop using Adobe Permier 6.0
2. Encode using TMPEnc to SVCD (480x480) 2520 kbps
3. Burn to CD-R using Nero as SVCD

Please share your process thanks. Actaully would everyone please share theirs, thanks.

rhuala

[gll99]

xed says:

With all due respect, VirtualDub does not appear to work with _any_ capture card known to exist in the circumambient universe, at _any_ time, by _any_ known tweaks or mods.

rhuala2 says:

Amen, that's solidifies the conclusion I have been coming too

You have obviously not been reading enough or the right posts.

Once and for all.

This concerns the Capture portion of vdub only:

The capture portion of Virtualdub was designed to be used exclusively with vfw (vxd) win95 and win98 drivers. The author makes this point very clear. The code cannot be modified for the capture even though it has been released publicly that's where Nandub and other mods come from because it's based on a different technology. WDM drivers are accessed via Directshow filters but vfw drivers are not. It's a totally different concept. For a basic understanding of the difference go to Microsoft's site and look up Vidcap32 (vfw) and AMCAP (wdm/Directshow). Although Virtualdub capture goes beyond Vidcap32 its basically still using the same api calls. It doesn't mean that some of the design or interface couldn't be re-used but the core access code would have to be modified significantly.

More and more users are moving to other Win os which Microsoft has moved to the Directshow environment for media processing. More and more card manufaturers are moving to wdm drivers only. Some users can still use the app if the following conditions are met:

1- They have the wdm wrapper (NT) installed
2- Their cards manufaturer provides wdm drivers that are compatible with the wrapper.
3- Or the manufacturer still includes vfw drivers with the card
4- Or the card is based on the BT848...bt878...bt879 .... type chipset and they use tweaked wdm drivers which are compatible with the card and the wrapper.

For those who use wdm drivers and the wrapper do not expect complete success because its only a workaround. If it works for you then you are very fortunate. It's a Microsost Interface (translator) that can and will cause problems in many cases because its buggy and has limitations. If you must blame someone then it should me Microsoft although can you really blame them for not keeping 100% compatibility with old designs? Some users think it's better than nothing so keep on using it in spite of the problems but at the first sign of difficulty repeat the same complaint over and over again without reading or understanding the facts properly.

The reading and Editing Portion of Vdub:

Some files are called AVI but are really asf or wmv which is a proprietary
format from Microsoft. Vdub had to remove the code at the request of MS. Older versions may still have the code.

Some have complained that it doesn't cut properly without realising that vdub cuts on key frame yet some will capture with a key frame every 10 or 30 seconds and then complain the vdub cuts in the wrong spot.
A possible workaround to this problem was suggested by another user of the forum yet similar questions have been asked again.

More often than not, problems with Vdub are caused by downloaded files of dubious unknown source, format, codecs etc.., some are incomplete files, users are missing the proper codecs etc... VBR audio related issues and on and on......... and for this vdub gets the blame.

The lack of expertise in using the built-in fixes and proper use of filters and frameserving cannot be blamed on the software but on us, the user.

No app can do it all but for a program that was designed by a University student many years ago its pretty darned good at what it does. If someone wants to do better the source code is available.

I don't blame the author for not answering since its all been said so many times before .

That is why these discussions are so useful but only when people take the time to read and use the search functions made available to them on the Board.

Cheers

[fmctm1sw]

Is the btwincap driver WDM? I use virtualdub with that all the time.

[gll99]

fmctm1sw

Yes its one of the tweaked drivers I was referring to. The links have been posted many times before so I didn't bother this time.

These drivers are designed for the chipsets I mentionned and seem to be the most compatible. They work if you have the right card.

[rhuala2]

gll99 wrote:

I don't blame the author for not answering since its all been said so many times before .

That is why these discussions are so useful but only when people take the time to read and use the search functions made available to them on the Board.

You have obviously not been reading enough or the right posts.

Once and for all.

Really don't appreciate your negative attitude, this is a forum about sharing ideas and expanding ones knowledge and experience. If you have been posting since May and have posted some 400 times, I am sure you have run into this discussion many times. Whereas some of us, even through diligent searches haven't found ways to make VirtualDub work properly for capturing (have tried your 4 step process more than once).

If you are so annoyed with us discussing it (where I was actually more curious about other peoples capturing processes for general curiosity) you could just opt to ignore our discussion instead of lashing out rudely. Sounds like you are getting bored of similar posts and are using your energy to condescend and criticize. Well every forum has repetitive posts and will continue to have that.. so relax.

I have come to the conclusion that VirtualDub does not work great for me (for capturing) under Windows XP, and have found other programs out there that allow me to do my captures with greater ease, sorry for expressing my opinion, even if it was expressed by someone else in the past.

rhuala

PS. If your post was directed more at xed, then you shouldn't have added my quote. My amen was in agreement with SOME of Xed's findings, yet not ALL of his conclusions.

[daznic]

I`ve used virtual dub with win 98, me and XP with no problems, with my ATI rage VIVO.
Just open ATI MMC Video In first, when the capture window appears, close, then open V.Dub. Works every time - don`t know why though !

[gll99]

rhuala2... My... so sensitive.

If I'm correct this is the quote taken from you which I previously quoted and which you object to Right!!!

Amen, that's solidifies the conclusion I have been coming too

(First, please notice that I didn't quote any new quotes just the original one. Alright?? )

Quotes are quite common to indicate a reference point. In this case I used it support the fact that "some users find that VDUB capture is problematic or does not function at all". I believe from reading the comments in your original post that this generally encapsulates what you intended to say on the subject so you shouldn't object to my quoting you. The only way you will never get quoted is if you don't write anything.

No offence was intended so none should have been taken.
Of course,you have a right to express any point of view you desire. It's not my thread.

I'm sorry you felt pointed out and misinterpreted my comments as personally addressed to you. It was not my intention to embarass you or reveal any failing of yours. It really isn't necessary to explain your degree of upset to me since I'm not legally qualified to offer any counsel, none of your conclusions are valid or relevant and I have no inclination nor feel compelled to deal with someone's personal interpretations or internal subconscious conflicts. We are only discussing opinions, facts and experiences with a software product, no more, no less. I find it mildly amusing that your ultra sensitivity and public voicing of your conclusions reveal more about yourself than you realise.

Many have been quoted/misquoted also at times but answers and retorts usually contain logical information about the subject at hand and showing why they agree or disagree with the point of discussion so that it adds to the conversation and helps the user who originally raised the query. I am sorry you were offended by just being quoted. I didn't feel it was necessay to include your whole post since it's on the same thread. You did raise some points about your problems with vdub in your original post but did tend to pull the subject a bit off topic. That's fine with me you are entitled to do that if you want or start a new thread on the subject of "other editing tools than vdub".

It is not unusual to remind new users to use the guides, tools and search engines. Instead of rebelling at the suggestions however perceived, most mature individuals are appreciative at receiving this unsolicited guidance and information since they often are not aware or have forgotten that they exist.

Back to the thread at hand:

My comments are primarily to help paulgab who initiated this thread. It's pretty easy to get confused with different idea's being discussed here and in the many similar threads on the subject. To save some confusion and wondering what's going on, I recapped the main problems with wdm and vxd drivers and virtualdub and threw in a couple of extra points that have been frequently asked for good measure.



Similarly to you, it is possible that his card will not be fully compatible with vdub using any combination of drivers and he will have to resort to using another capture app as many users have done. On the other hand he may enjoy either limited or great success using the knowledge presented here. Time and various trials will tell the tale.

I sincerely hope the discussion was nevertheless stimulating and informative.

Peace.

Elvis has left the building

[paulgab]

[quote="rhuala2"]

Basically I am capturing/processing like this:

1. Capture using Virtual VCR using Morgan Media J Codec, 640x480 Quality=90%
2. Trim crop using Adobe Permier 6.0
2. Encode using TMPEnc to SVCD (480x480) 2520 kbps
3. Burn to CD-R using Nero as SVCD


Hi rhuala2,

I am particularly interested on Virtual VCR yuo've mentioned, where you can use Morgan MJPEG codec for caps. Coz in my case, I have installed PIC Video MJPEG codec but cannot use it to capture. I use UVS6 or PowerDirector to capture but in both appps, the MJPEG codec cannot be chosen for capturing. Only codec such as YUY2, RGB24, RGB16, UYVY etc. and the resulting AVI file when used is very large. So currently I only capture using MPEG2, it saves more drive space.

Though the quality I'm getting on MPEG2 caps is so far very acceptable, I thought that it may even better if caps are from MJPEG (nearly lossless or lossless).I read on this forum that capturing by MJPEG can be lossless yet lesser in file size. Does using MJPEG codec requires compatibility with the capture card?

Thanks in advance!

[yamato72]

Paulgab, if you want quality, and you want to use VDub, then you need to uninstall the oem drivers and install the btwincap drivers. Even with WDM overtaking VFW, you'll still get better quality with generic VFW drivers for your PCTV (I've got the same card) and capturing with VDub and Huffyuv.
I'm using Win2K, capping my Hi8 home videos at 720X480 and encoding to mpeg2 with TMPGEnc. My final product is indistinguishable from the source.

Yeah, wouldn't it be great if VDub worked with WDM drivers but what can you do? It's a free program with more flexibility than anything else out there.

I've tried the oem drivers with DirectShow capture software (FreeVCR and VirtualVCR I think) and haven't found anything better, mainly cuz you can't use Huffyuv.

That said, I've nothing inflammatory to say in response to the "VDub sucks" opinions being expressed in this thread, other than to say that I disagree. There's a pretty good learning curve but it's worth it.

Good luck

[presto]

This thread has some pretty long threads and a lot of back and forth so I hope I don't stick my foot in my mouth...here goes.

I don't understand xebs contention that Vdub doesn't work on any card...
I have VirtualDub on three computers and it works flawlessly. It captures much better than any other program and is easy to use. On one of my computes It didn't work at first (could not find capture card) so I spent a few hours posting questions and surfing and tried a few things that didn't work and the found the right "wrapper" and it worked fine.

That's just my experience.

PS - It looks to me like gll99 has taken the time to post some pretty detailed and helpful information.

[paulgab]

Paulgab, if you want quality, and you want to use VDub, then you need to uninstall the oem drivers and install the btwincap drivers. Even with WDM overtaking VFW, you'll still get better quality with generic VFW drivers for your PCTV (I've got the same card) and capturing with VDub and Huffyuv.

Viola! At last I'm not the only one using PCTV card, I just thought I'm alone.

Of course I still want to use VDub if there's a way around this probs. You see I'm a newbie to this hobby and not yet so familiar on the techies around it. Would appreciate if you could elaborate a little bit on how to uninstall the oem drivers and install the btwincap drivers. Where can I get this btwincap drivers?

BTW, is your PCTV-PCI card gen5? Thanks

[fmctm1sw]

Would appreciate if you could elaborate a little bit on how to uninstall the oem drivers and install the btwincap drivers. Where can I get this btwincap drivers?

btwincap.sourceforge.net If I am not mistaken, it tells you exactly how to install the driver....

[yamato72]

Paulgab, you want the following file:

btwdminstaller5.3.4

from this url:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/btwincap/

Your first step will be to uninstall PCTV. You may want to download regdelete from the Pinnacle website here:

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/support/display.asp?ProductID=306&SubDocTypesID=67

and run it to clean your registry.

Next, run the btwdm installer, and tell it to "uninstall any existing bt8x8 drivers." It will have you reboot, (cancel through any "found new hardware wizard" messages) then you'll want to rerun the installer and hit "install." Be prepared to poke around the VDub settings and do some trial and error for a while.

As to version 5 or PCTV, how do you find that out? My card is about 3 months old....

[SteveBia]

Just a comment from an 'outsider'.

I've been pouring through VCDhelp.com now for quite some time and find it to be an EXCELLENT sight with much information. My only issue is how Virtualdub is handled.

Consistently it is spouted as the best thing since sliced bread. Nowhere (other than here) does the truth come out.

This software only works when the planets are all aligned during a leap year.

I spent so much time wondering why it wasn't working..was it this, was it that, etc. It would just be very helpful for this sight to, after it spouts the greatness of the software, indicate that it is challenging to get it to work as its compatibility is limited.

So, that's my small input to the matter based on my experiences.
-S

[offline]

You could divide video users in this forum into two distinct
camps. Those who love the technical challenge of diving
into the nuts and bolts of desktop video, and those who
simply want to get on with preserving their family videos.

If you are in the first camp, you are most likely in love
with virtual dub. In the second, the likes of powervcr, iuvcr
or Ulead's DVD Workshop are more to your taste.

While both camps have valid methods, I have to agree
with gll99's defense of Virtual Dub while also accepting
that SteveBia makes a good point. Virtual Dub is not
suitable for every card, and given the % sales of non-vfw
capture video cards, one can no longer claim that it
supports the majority of cap cards in use.

[SteveBia]

I'd like to be the first to join camp 2.

By day, I'm a mechanical engineer working in the aerospace field, I get my fill of technical challenges. By night, I just want to get my videos stored without too much hassle and brain power.

The challenge for the perfect capture continues...


Fellow camp 2ers unite!



-S

[gll99]

Offline says:

While both camps have valid methods, I have to agree
with gll99's defense of Virtual Dub while also accepting
that SteveBia makes a good point. Virtual Dub is not
suitable for every card, and given the % sales of non-vfw
capture video cards, one can no longer claim that it
supports the majority of cap cards in use.

My defence of virtualdub is not so much to extol its virtues but to also explain its limitations. Because this tool has been around for so long we tend to forget that it was designed for another time. I even reread some of the documents provided with vdub and found another point that I had missed. Not only will VDUB not capture without vfw drivers (or the vfw to wdm workaround wrapper provided by microsoft) but neither can it read files encoded by a directshow codec. There are problems attributed to Vdub which are caused by something else but in the confusion about the information vdub gets the blame. A case in point, Avermedia tuner cards generally do not capture greater than 352x240 in Overlay mode but can capture more than that in Preview mode. Some believe that this is caused by Vdub but in fact its a feature of the card/driver. This example and other problems I mentionned earlier were more intended to clarify some misconceptions rather than to defend Vdub since the same would be true with any VFW capture application.

I agree that more clarification of these points is needed because it can be both confusing and misleading to a new user.

My explanations are an attempt to prevent people from trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and then wondering why through no fault of there own that it doesn't fit. After all everything they read says it does fit so why will it not work for them.

By providing some information I was hoping to clear up some confusion rather than simply defending the interests of Virtualdub.

I run win98se with WDM drivers so I cannot use vdub to capture anymore and I moved on to something else. Vdub still can do many processing tasks and I use it for those and fully accept it's limitations as I do with every other app.

I must say that I fully agree with your final conclusions about Vdub in the context of it's capture capabilities. I believe that the author of the program would agree with you also.

[labrat99]

Two thoughts -

1) These software programs are just tools. Try to use the one that works best for the job at hand.

2) Having said that, VirtualDub is indispensable for me - so much so that when I built my new computer I made sure that I got a capture card that still worked with VFW drivers so that I could capture from V-Dub. When I first started working with desktop video, I tried capturing with Videowave, only to find the sound sync so bad that after just a few minute long capture it started to looked like a dubbed Kung-Fu movie!

Once I found out about V-Dub and got it set up, I was able to capture hour long shows, trim out the commercials quickly, set up a frameserver to TmpGenc, and make great looking VCD files with perfect sound sync.

The only thing that will make me move away from this software is finding a better tool for the job. If there is one out there, I'd like to hear about it.

[rhuala2]

Forgot about this thread...

paulgab wrote:

Hi rhuala2,
.
.
Though the quality I'm getting on MPEG2 caps is so far very acceptable, I thought that it may even better if caps are from MJPEG (nearly lossless or lossless).I read on this forum that capturing by MJPEG can be lossless yet lesser in file size. Does using MJPEG codec requires compatibility with the capture card?
Thanks in advance!

I would suggest getting the most accurate info on Morgan codec here:

http://www.morgan-multimedia.com/review.htm

Give it a try, nothing to lose...and get vritual VCR from Tools tab to the left.


gll99 wrote:

I'm sorry you felt pointed out and misinterpreted my comments as personally addressed to you. It was not my intention to embarass you or reveal any failing of yours. It really isn't necessary to explain your degree of upset to me since I'm not legally qualified to offer any counsel, none of your conclusions are valid or relevant and I have no inclination nor feel compelled to deal with someone's personal interpretations or internal subconscious conflicts. We are only discussing opinions, facts and experiences with a software product, no more, no less. I find it mildly amusing that your ultra sensitivity and public voicing of your conclusions reveal more about yourself than you realise.

Whatever guy, performing a psychological profile of me on a forum from a few words I wrote... what a joke!! Don't quit your day job dude...

Not your intention to embarass me or reveal any failing of mine, and you can't even spell embarrass right, haha... realllly... *wipe tear away from eye* ...Pleeeease just get over yourself...

I told u at the end of my other post, if your post wasn't addressed specifically to me it's irrelevant, my point was telling you not to discourage people from giving their points of view even if you've seen the same question many times and that... oh never mind your not worth the effort and your long winded pompous replies are too annoying to read anyways, so please don't even bother replying.

rhuala

[gll99]

rhuala2

You are very new and your perceptive powers are not fully trained. You obviously cannot properly identify truly negative persons. Those who contradict, argue but do not take the time to properly explain and discuss based on fact and reason. I wonder who that describes? Hummmm???????I guess it's difficult for you when your mirror is your only friend. It never corrects you. It only allows you to see what you want to see.

I will excuse your behaviour on that basis .

I wonder what cycle the moon is in?

Your rants are once again betraying you.

"Foisted by your own petard."

I know you can't help yourself so I forgive you.

PS :

Sorry for that mistype a lot of us do that just to irritate others (and it seems to work well).

Pleasant dreams.

[rhuala2]

"...a lot of us do that just to irritate others..." ...riiighht! *boggle*

"I guess it's difficult for you when your mirror is your only friend. It never corrects you. It only allows you to see what you want to see."

omg do u talk out of your ass... I have posted many times asking questions and keeping an open mind and admitting mistakes/errors or blatant misunderstanding. You just can not resist not getting in the last word can you. I bet you just have to reply... you can't stand it can you... got... to reply.. can't... resist… *best Capt. Kirk impression*

OK, I'm thru with this petty conversation so no need to lock it moderator, I'm out. Sorry to have deviated from your initial question paulgab.

rhuala

PS. Don’t do it, don't reply just let it go...