dvd-r/rw vs. dvd+rw(again)

[boss]

read this and tell me what you think:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/sci_tech/2000/dot_life/2325705.stm
don't dvd+rw's have to be formatted as well?
-r/rw lacks support?
-r/rw has less software?
mark ward should do his research before making such ludricous and ignorant claims.

[vitualis]

Well, obviously the Philips PR person he was speaking to did his job well...

For those of you who haven't caught on DVD-R/W have the same if not better compatibility than comparible DVD+R/W, is officially supported by the DVD Forum and generally has the same if not better support.

DVD+R/W formats may have an edge for PC specific tasks.

Regards.

[rmtaibo]

Well, I don't believe in Philips or Pioneer representatives. They will always say that their kids are the most beautiful of the planet.

Nobody takes care about my personal opinion about this, but I can tell you what are my client's experiences:

They don't know anything about +r/rw nor -r/rw technology. They only want that DVDs they buy will be playable in their office or home players.

And my experience is that "+" format gave me better results. No "+" client returns yet. Not the same history with "-" format.

I used "-" due to its low prices, but now "+" prices begin to drop and are more accesible every new day.
Now I'm not buying "-" DVD blanks, only buying "+".

[vitualis]

Well, that could simply be from the fact that "-" has been around a lot longer than "+".

BTW, whether you buy "-" or "+" media doesn't depend on personal preference! If you have a DVD-R/W drive, you can ONLY use DVD-R/W media. Similarly, if you have a DVD+R/W drive, you can ONLY use DVD+R/W media.

Since the combined -/+ drives aren't really commonly available to the public yet, I find you comments a little bit curious to say the least...

Regards.

[Mavrick]

IMHO the – standard is on the way out. Most of the “BIG” companies have hopped off the – and jumped onto the + bandwagon. The trend seems to be leaning to the + specification, in time it may the only choice. Just like: LP vs. CD, Beta vs. VHS, 8 Track vs. cassette tape, and standard 4:3 vs.16:9 HD TV….

Things change and we’ll have to change with them…

[Greg12]

oh well, i'm one of the lucky ones to have a DVD+-RW

beautiful little thing sitting in it's firewire house.

[kveld3]

Well guys, I was paging through my best buy ad on Sun and discovered that there is now a drive that writes in both + and - format DVDs from Sony available from Sony for $350. So this should help solve some compatibility issues, I am planing on purchasing one myself after a little bit more research. But remember, in the next few months, Blue DVDs will be appearing, a new DVD format that allows about 30 GB of data on a single disc, so once again, new formats and burners will pop up to support that. Just thought I would throw that out there.

[Faustus]

I was gonna say... I've not heard of a major backer of the - standard backing out yet... though I could be wrong.

Yet Sony is a major supporter of the + standard and they are switching to a dual format drive and sitting this one out if appearances are correct.

Anyday now 4x - will be out... and as long as I dont buy disk so cheap its a rip off ( rip off on me) I've never had any compaibility problems.

I guess it depends on which side of the fence you watch from... cause I was assuming that the - guys were winning.

vitualis I think its likely that he has 2 drives if he's doing this professionally. He never mentioned doing them on one.

[vitualis]

IMHO the – standard is on the way out. Most of the “BIG” companies have hopped off the – and jumped onto the + bandwagon.

And which companies are those??

It seems to me that many companies are dipping into both standards. Those that produced DVD-R/W drives still produce them but may also release DVD+R/W drives under their name.

DVD-R/W is still the only one out of the two that is supported by the DVD Forum and as such new DVD players and DVD-Rom drives are only rated to be "DVD-R/W" compatible.

As has been mentioned before, DVD+R/W formats are probably better than DVD-R/W when it comes to PC specific tasks (e.g., backing up data to a DVD-ROM). However, DVD-R/W is probably still better when it comes to video disc authoring.

The new +/- drives are probably your best bet... With Blu-Ray around the corner (which supports a writable format from the world go) and the relatively poor compatibility of recordable DVD media (as compared to CD-R for example), it is completely likely that BOTH standards will remain alive as they pass on to obsolesence.

Regards.

[Mavrick]

The DVD+RW Alliance is a group of companies that co-developed and promote the DVD+RW standard: Philips, Hewlett-Packard, Sony, Yamaha, Ricoh and Mitsubishi/Verbatim. It has been joined by Thomson/RCA in late 2000, and Dell in 2001. In addition to these, a couple of dozens of other companies work together in the DVD+RW Alliance to share knowledge on the creation of DVD+RW products. Their official website can be reached at http://www.dvdrw.com.

I agree that some are producing dual - & + drives, due to the ??? on which to get... I just think the + is a better way to go... (IMHO)

[Mavrick]

IMHO the – standard is on the way out. Most of the “BIG” companies have hopped off the – and jumped onto the + bandwagon.

And which companies are those??

I hope my last post answered your question...

[epo]

Mavrick, this list is just media trick of Philips. There is no more companies, supporting "+" and all these, except Philips itself, are supporting "-" too. Real support is actually coming only from Sony. And one important thing to take into consideration: ALL media manufacturers hate Philips and Princo (produces most of DVD writables) makes only "-".
Just the fact that 2 giants - Philips and Sony - are supporting "+" format each for their own reasons doesn't allow it to die out quickly.

[Mavrick]

Mavrick, this list is just media trick of Philips. There is no more companies, supporting "+" and all these, except Philips itself, are supporting "-" too. ...

Well I might be fooled then…

However, I did check out two websites (HP & Dell) and found they ONLY offer the +R and +RW Drives. At least I’m not the only one fooled, so I don’t feel as bad.

I know Sony offers a dual + and – drive (DRU-500a), but even Sony doesn’t offer a – only drive anymore….

Hummmm… Dell, HP, and Sony…. I might be wrong but it does “look” like people are leaning towards the +…

I would still put my money on the + specification over the -

[Mavrick]

P.S.

The DVD thing reminds me of my video camera history....

I buy a BIG VHS camera/recorder pack... they come out with an all-in-one models...

I buy a VHS Camera... the come out with 8mm tape...

i buy a 8mm tape... they come out with Hi8...

Then DV... etc....


Its just life....

[Faustus]

Mavrick:
You just listed the major backers of the + format, so its not surprising you find no - products... of course you find - products in Sonys line of computers, they have never used their own drives in them unless something changed recently.

Also as far as I'm aware sony has never made a - drive only + up until this new combo drive.

In general I think this site does a decent job of accepting people from both formats, which is good cause alot of the info we need is the same between us and we can all learn together. But I will point you to a poll from these forurms not long ago (though its hardly a very scientific poll I guess)

http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=333628&highlight=dvd+poll#333628

Oh yeah and check out these links for info on DVDR drives and notice the sites:
Sony: http://www.sonystyle.com/home/item.jsp?itemid=51644&hierc=9683x5881x8591&catid=
Dell: Here

That leaves only HP actually using their own drive as sony doesn't...

Personally I dont care that much as my burner makes perfectly compatable disk that will continue to be even if my format of choice loses... but as someone who pays alot of attention to the PC industry I just feel the need to point out that your observations are not 100% correct.

In the end all that matter is that my problem with my current backup method have been sorted out and now its time to input some chapters... happy burning people.

[Mavrick]

flaystus:

Cool Thanks! Guess you learned me on some stuff...


That’s what its all about tho... learning more… (and a little arguing never hurt either...) heh


I have not bought my DVD Writer yet... So I'll keep an eye out and see what happens for a bit longer... but the Sony DRU-500a is looking pretty good...


Take Care,


Mavrick

[Mavrick]

P.S. (again)

I still like the + specs. Better... So PPPPHHHHFFFFTTT :P



Sorry, But I had to come back and post that....

I feel better now

[Faustus]

BAh dont set it out... if these new combo drives from Sony and NEC work well then just get one of them and use what ever the cheapest media you can find that that works for your uses and forget about it... either way your a winner.

That aside as I said before I own a - drive and the disk I'm burning today work on most every player I've tried and will continue to work... they are readable on most DVD-Rom drives... so really what do I care who wins If someday the + guys win and the - disk go away, well by then the drive would have more then paid for itself.... so I'm still a winner far as I'm concerned.

[wind12fan]

while waiting for the format wars to settle, the burner that does both format is a safe bet, like the new Sony DRU-500a. It also burns DVD-R at 4X !!!

[SatStorm]

In europe, nobody buy DVD+R(W). In US the plus version has more success, probably because of the standalone DVD+R(W) recorders.

The economy crisis in europe the last 2 years, made a turn to PC based solutions and the way europeans buy and act, differs a lot US costumers. For the typical european, it only counts the price of the recorder, the price of the media, the flexibility and the compatibility. Also, the speed counts . The European gonna search before it goes to buy a product. Gonna read magazines, articles, gonna ask friends, gonna visit the internet forums, etc. Then it do a search to stores and because it has more alternatives than the typical australian/american, gonna buy from the place which offers what he finds that suit him more.
It won't go to a store and say "I want to record DVDs easy, what's your offer!". And also, expacially in younger ages (>35), the seller opinion don't count! Nobody trusts what the market sellers state!

[Mavrick]

The European gonna search before it goes to buy a product. Gonna read magazines, articles, gonna ask friends, gonna visit the internet forums, etc. Then it do a search to stores and because it has more alternatives than the typical australian/american, gonna buy from the place which offers what he finds that suit him more.
It won't go to a store and say "I want to record DVDs easy, what's your offer!". And also, expacially in younger ages (>35), the seller opinion don't count! Nobody trusts what the market sellers state!

I think this is true for anybody, not just Europeans...

I'm reading everything I can find, as well as getting opinions (hence, I’m here.). This is why I will probably go with the Sony DRU-500a.

Price is a big thing with me too, but I will pay more for something IF I think it's a better product. (If ya going to do something... Do it right, or don't bother.) This is why I don’t have a 16:9 HDTV yet either… The one I want, I can’t afford right now, got to save my pennies…

[SatStorm]

My friend Mavrick you are not a typical US user!
You see, another thing which exist in US and not in EU, is the "ready solutions" like Dell, HP, etc. Those solutions are major for the US market, but in EU they just have a small -very small- share just to say that they exist. Only in the UK those solutions have a market share.

Most of Europeans built there own PCs, while most of US costumers prefer ready solutions! The OEM market or whatever...

Expecially in east and south europe (less money there...), the way the costumers act is very very deligate. Now also the Germans start to buy that way! Germans use to be enthusiasts of technology and the best costumers of new ideas, but the crisis there turn them more easter like types...

[epo]

Bit different there in the North East of Europe. Nearly everybody are buying "Branded" PCs. But .. each shop has it's own brand, it makes. Needless to say, these PCs are collected according customers spec. , if supplied, within couple of days. Only PC rental companies (or some others for whom on-site warranty is bigger issue than 50% higher price) buy HP or Dell.

[P@iNKilleR]

Maverick as U say the + is a better format! U give all the backers of the + format but when it comes down to it who actually builds the drives in the first place???? sony/Philips/NEC & with a big company like sony sitting on the fence not betting on a format I would think this was dodgy. So why judge a format when sony is hedging their bets because remember the Beta format!! Lots of companies made Beta videos & despite it being better the cheaper format being VHS won hands down. Sony have the best idea +/- safe to say there will be lots of big companies sitting on the fence dont U agree.

Kev!

[Mavrick]

I guess time will tell... + is just my preference is all....

As far as Sony goes... Well, they make + only, and dual +/- drives, but not one - only drive... To me that does say somthing...

[P@iNKilleR]

well lets just enjoy the cheap dvd while they last coz it wont be long before a newer encryption will appear... but well that just says in a nutshell what was made will be broken.

[solarfox]

Mavrick -- What it says is that Sony is hedging their bets just in case the DVD-R(W) format does win out over DVD+R(W), that's all. (Although some might argue that it could be taken as a loss of confidence in DVD+R(W), since Sony was initially offering DVD+R(W)-only drives until they came out with the combo unit, personally I think it's just good business sense on their part. Unlike Beta vs. VHS, there's no intrinsic physical reason why they can't support both formats in a single device, so why not go ahead and do so?)

It also says that Sony recognizes that for the moment, DVD-R(W) media is still (a) cheaper, and (b) more compatible with existing set-top DVD players, so allowing the use of both types of discs in a single unit gives their customers more flexibility.

P@iNKilleR -- It is a myth that Beta was significantly better than VHS, actually. The difference in image and sound quality between the two formats was so small that few, if any, televisions of the day would have shown any difference whatsoever; no less an authority than Popular Electronics magazine reported that in their own tests, it took sensitive laboratory instruments to detect what amounted to a few tenths of a percent improvement in signal, at best.

[Mavrick]

Mavrick ... there's no intrinsic physical reason why they can't support both formats in a single device, so why not go ahead and do so?

I agree with that part of what u said... That’s why I'm looking at the DRU-500a for myself... If I can do both, why not?

As long as the “big boys” are beating each other up with price wars, and combo drives... We (The customers) are the winners...

I do wish they (whatever group) would just set a standard, and just end this mess. Standards are set all the time from Network Protocols, VGA, CD-R, Wireless Networking, and HDTV to name a few … Why is DVD Writing so different?

[tonyp12]

I agree with that part of what u said... That’s why I'm looking at the DRU-500a for myself... If I can do both, why not?

But you still gone have to make a choice,
and that choice is every time you buy blank DVDRs.

Are we putting our homemovies on +R and send a copy to
aunt Betty on -R ??

As we are never sure that a DVD player is guaranteed to play both.

A format war is not a good thing and I hope they settle on a format soon.

As Philips owns the patent for DVD and they are hardcore +R
I think +R will win as Philips is the one who grants licences/royalty
and if some hardcore -R DVD manufacture pi$$es them off, maybe they
will loose their licences.

[Faustus]

The standards group your talking is called the DVD Forum... look them up on google sometime. They created the DVD-RW format as well as approved the original nonburnable DVD format we all know an love. The + format was created when some companies made their own standard behind their backs and realeased it without ever thinking of the confusion it would cause.

On a side note: The original + format was suppose to be for computers only... no settop players. Thats way the DVDforum didn't complain to much... but at the last moment the +RW guys decided they wanted Video also and so here we are...

A vote for - is a vote for standards... a vote for + is a vote for chaos