The end is near SVCD & VCD is dead??

[Oracle]

With the prices of DVD burners and blank DVD`s dropping rapidly.

And now multimedia settop Boxes approaching which will play every thing including Mpeg-4. Check out the features of this machine .

The Features:

- 250 MHz IBM PowerPC Processor (350 Mips)

- Linux open source (most parts under the terms of GPL, accordingly
expandable)- Supports Linux Standard API (Direct-FB, Linux-FB, LIRC)

- 1 x DVB Common-Interface Slot

- 2 x Smartcard-Reader

- Integrated Compact Flash Interface Slot

- MPEG2 Hardware decoding (fully DVB compliant)

- Support for MPEG4 decoding

- Common available NIMs (DVB-S, DVB-T, DVB-C)

- 100 MBit full duplex Ethernet Interface

- USB Port Keyboard, Pointing Devices, WebCams and other devices

- V.24/RS232 Interface

- Big-size LCD-Display

- Up to 64 MByte of RAM

- integrated IDE UDMA66 Master/Slave Interface
- Support for internal HDD in any capacity

- unlimited channel lists for TV/Radio

- channel-change time < 1 second

- full automatic service scan

- supports directly bouquet-lists (indirect unlimited)

- supports EPG (electronic program guide)

- supports videotext (insertion)

- various applications such Web-Browser or Mail-clients

- supports multiple LNB-Switching control (supports DiSEqC)

- fully adaptable OSD in many languages (skin-support)

- SPDI/F Interface for digital bit stream out (AC-3 / DTS)

- 2 x Scart-interfaces (fully controlled by software)

- MINI-DIN connector for extern IR (send/receive) and I2C for
extern Rotor devices

- intern send/receive IR (Videorecorder)

link
http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.com

[afwasborstel]

We keep on dreaming....


And in the mean while we will keep on maken Svcd and Cvd.....

[tenders]

dvd burners are still expensive in this country

[KingJohn]

With the prices of DVD burners and blank DVD`s dropping rapidly.

You are right, I think buy Christmas they will be down again, its a good thing, but then conversions from AVI to DVD will still create problems.

This site will have to "evlolve"

Looks like they did ? http://www.dvdhelp.com/

[Baldrick]

www.dvdrhelp.com !!! .... www.dvdhelp.com is not my site even though I want the name, it has had that info the last 2 years now...

[Guyver]

Nope, i'll be switching to DVD's if the drives and disk become even cheaper. If they don't then i'll probebly continue to use SVCD and VCD for a while longer

[Oracle]

Many of you seem very focused on DVD I was also trying to bring up the subject of settop Boxes like the example I gave.

You can conect it to your PC with a Lan cable (100mbit)-many possibilities here. e.g. share the HDD or DVD/CD drive on your PC?

Plus these boxes are not limited to the SVCD, DVD, VCD standards.

Mpeg 4- for example.(2 80min CD`s containing a film encoded in Mpeg 4 & true 5.1 AC3 sound )

I for one will be heading in this direction as DVD burners(especially the blanks) are still relatively expensive where I live.

[Baldrick]

I want a settop box with harddrive, capture card, play all formats from dvd,hd,cd, burn to cd/dvd and perfect tv-out.......hmm...it is a computer...hmm....

[snowmoon]

I think there will be a place for VCD and SVCD for quite a long time to come. I would say the demise od VCD and SVCD is more like 36 months out assuming that bandwith keeps getting cheaper.

DVD's over the next 2 years are really going to start making inroads into the VCD markets as more people switch to inexpensive DVD-R drives. It's an intersting phenomonon where the better drives continue to drop in price not go up in price. With disks become affordable for the ammount of space they provide. Things will really start to heat up once a the $150/bare drive mark is passed with a 4x burner. Right now driver are too slow, too expensive, and to quirky for the majority of consumers. Once you can burn a DVD in 10-15 minutes and use in almost any player they will fly off the shelves.

I have not been impressed with mpeg-4. It has a place, but only for use with pristine sources. Everytime I've tried to use "noisy" sources it's faults are magnified consiterable showing all sorts of artifacts. The only way I was able to perserve quality was to pump up the bitrate to the point I might as well use mpeg-2. There is also all of the problems with encoder/player support of the diffrent profiles, interlacing has been an afterthought ( necessary for TV caps ) and MPEG LA problems trying to figure out what licencing to provide... I'm steering clear of that mess for now.

[adam]

The home encoder/authorer will certainly stop using vcds and svcds once they own a dvd burner and can purchase media for roughly the same price as a cdr or two, that's what I'm still waiting for anyway.

But vcds and svcds will still be around for many years to come. Remember, there are probably more vcds sold in Asia than dvds, and no matter how cheap dvd burners and media get, it will always be cheaper to produce VCDs than DVDs.

[KingJohn]

2 times VCD's might be the same cost as 1 DVD ?

Baldrick, http://www.dvd-help.com/ is available, get it before I do

http://www.dvd-help.co.uk is not in use yet!, but someone bought it.

[gll99]

My biggest #1 issue right now is compatibility with Standalone and PC players.

My second problem is that the price of DVD media in my area is still high. Would you believe $10 canadian per unit. I can buy low end movies and old TV shows already pressed for $4.88 at Walmart but can't get blanks.
The govt has taxed all blank media so the price will never be as low as elsewhere.

The third is the price of the writers has not dropped enough because of the devalued canadian $ which puts imports at least 40% higher cost than elsewhere.

Ordering from outside is not feasible for the same reason since most quotes are in US dollars. I don't want to send 2 or $300 to some fly by night and never see the product or get an inferior substitute.

I have to wait for these issues to be resolved in that order (especially the first 2) and for a local supplier like Best Buy (Future Shop here) to offer the products.

When this happens it just means I may burn HQ SVCD (or low DVD) if I want the whole original 9 gig DVD to fit on 1 4.6 DVD disk

I guess I will still do a little of everything depending on my source.

I can't see the advantage of backing up a vhs tape to 1 full DVD. Hi Q DVD to DVD makes sense when you strip off all the excess and key in on the movie but other sources I can't see that it would be worth using a 2 hour movie from a TV cap to make a full DVD with 1 movie. In those cases I guess its still would be DVD but lower bitrate so I could fit 2 movies or more.

When plasma/lcd flat screens get very low in price I'll think about it. In order to upgrade to DVD I'd have to get a new everything: camera, capture card, Premiere. I think it will be linked to HDTV. That hardly isn't evern broadcast at all yet. After HDTV hits the screens everyone will want digital and want to make 16/9 movies using DVD and 3 chip cameras. Till then, I'll stick with my analog Hi-8, SVCD.

[vitualis]

VCD/SVCD will eventually give way to DVD authoring when it becomes (1) as cheap to make a VCD/SVCD as it is to make a DVD and (2) when free software to make DVD becomes as available as for S/VCD (though I would imagine that this would be largely driven by demand).

In Australia, at least, DVD burning (though has become cheaper) is still very much a luxury. The drive itself costs probably around 5x as much as a CD-burner and the media is around the same ratio.

Regards.

[SatStorm]

I believe that VCD and CVD gonna virtual exist on DVD discs for many many years. Since 352 X 288/240 and 352 X 576/480 are full supported by DVD, I know many users ready to use them on there DVD-R discs, including me.
It like LP/SP on VCRs in a way. And imagine: If the standard for a DVD is about 2 hours a 4.7 disc, why - If I can do it - don't fit 4 hours or more on it, with the same quality? Also, if my source is VHS/SVHS/Hi8, why to waste framesize over 1/2 D1? (I already grabb and encode from VHS/SVHS only to CCIF and 1/2 D1 resolutions and till now, no probs with any DVD I tried DVD-R made that way...)

And never forget DVB transmissions: Most of the times it is better to rescale your 544/528/480 X 576/480 resolution to 352 X 576/480 than to boost it to full CCIR 601! And DVB transmissions wanted or not are the near future (don't say present in Europe...)

So, my answer is that VCD and SVCD gonna die on the media ('cause the media (CD) gonna die soon), but they will always exist virtual on DVD-R discs!

[Oracle]

Its seems most people who read my post, didnt really look at the example I gave(the dreambox) and the features it has, and tended to be fixed on DVD. Would have also been interesting some coments on settop boxes(maybe people know of others besides the dreambox?) as I think this will also affect the future of video encoding, giving less constraints on the format used .

Thanks to all those who took part in the poll. :P

[vitualis]

I wouldn't mind having one of your dreamboxes but I don't know if it will be come a commercial reality any time soon though...

How much will it cost? How big will it be? Will it work as well as your average DVD player? Will it cost more?

How difficult will it be to use?

There was a really quite good article on Slashdot a month or so ago on why even DVR (e.g., like the Tivo) will probably not make it in the long run... I recall something about there being a free trial in the UK and about 50% of the testers never even got it working. It wasn't that it was hard to use, but those testers simply couldn't be bothered enough trying to work out something they weren't sure they were going to use...

Unfortunately, the general masses aren't very technologically minded and I don't think that any device without a clear purpose will make it in the market...

Regards.

[boss]

with tivo, won't you end up paying a subscription as well? who on earth will be willing to pay, especially with set-top dvd recorders getting cheaper and cheaper?
never mind most people not being technically minded, they wont pay £20 a month just to record a few t.v. programmes!

[Oracle]

I have no Idea what or who Tivo is , and who said anything about subscription???

Where I´m living(Austria) just about everyone has a sat reciever most analog a few digital.......so Vitualis, about it not having a clear purpose...??

I guess not many of you actually read any infos at the link I posted.

[vitualis]

The Tivo is a digital video recorder. It does a lot of the things that your dream box does...

However, additional features won't make a product. That was the point of the Slashdot article. A new device will need a clear purpose in what it does, and if it takes the role of something that already exists, it must be patently clear that it does it better.

The problem with something like your dreambox is that the average consumer won't know what it is supposed to do (or what you can do with it).

Regards.

[SatStorm]

Any DVB/ -s -t -c transmission is based on mpeg 2 and has all the stuff DVD has. It is also possible to grabb direct the DVB transmission direct to your PC, without the use of any TiVO, Dreambox etc.

The best solution is with a very special dvb reciever (Nokia 9600/9500/9200 or D-Box 1 in Germany). If you change this firmware of this reciever with a very special program called DVB 2000 (more infos here: www.no-access.de) then it is very easy to grabb direct to your PC any DVB transmission, to ready, playable on some standalone players, multiplexxed as DVD mpeg 2 files, ready to burn as is if you wish.

The best alternative to this, is with the use of Hauppauge win dvb/s PCI card, if you use the program windvblive! which is based on the knowledge of the DVB2000 team. You can find infos for this proggy here: www.odsoft.de
This alternative is cheaper and yes, it is more easy to find it.

On both alternatives, it is possible to receive DVB/T and /C transmissions, by changing the tuner yourself. Hauppauge also publish some intentions of the company for new PCI cards for direct DVB/T grabbing (very usefull if you live in the UK).
If you want to receive scramble transmissions, you have to get a subscription card and a Cam Module of the system it is used by the subscription provider. Then it is the same as with DVB receivers in generall

[Oracle]

Vitualis- I do get your point about it been to technical for many users, but I think they are aiming it at people interested in sat/computers etc


Satstorm-interesting links, good infos,
(off-topic now) the reason I`m looking at buying the dreambox is-

originally I was going to buy a Humax Digital reciever+Magic Module(you know the one ) + Funcard + programmer etc

Then I came across this dreambox(made by the same company as the magic module) 2 built in card readers(magic modules?) + 1 free CI and with and ethernet connect to my computer. Opened up a whole range of possibilities+ the machine runs on Linux....lots of opertunities for upgrades & mods.

Suposed to be released end of this month for around 499 euros.......I´ll probably wait a month then buy one.

[SatStorm]

Magic modules are now prohibited in Germany and most eurozone countries. Also most of the irdeto/seca transmissions are now switch to new and better encryption systems, not yet hacked. Last loss Canal+ Satellite Numerique (no more kiosk)
The only system still very hackable is Viaccess at the TPScrypt form. Not playable to magic modules only on nokia and humax receivers.

I don't like humax recievers (I hate them), but if you are interesting in DVB/S hacking then Humax 5400 and 5400z are the best solution you have, if you can't find a nokia 9200s to put dvb2000 firmware.

Magic cam is not neccessary to both humax/nokia. Just patch the embedded cam they both have and it is far better any magic cam.


Also, forget funcards for seca/irdeto only viaccess now works and partly nagravission. Better built a season interface to be sure for ever!

Dreambox is simply another name of patched D-Box 2 if I remember correct. Not a bad machine but yet not better D-box 1 (nokia 9600/9200/9500).

[Oracle]

offtopic again-any other good links satstorm where I can read a bit more on this subject?

[Oracle]

satsorm- How can a dreambox just be a patched Dbox 2 when the dreambox is a new product, not even released yet?

[epo]

I'm back
What does season give us, that fun doesn't? Shouldn't codes/decryption algorithms need to be known anyway?
BTW, You forget about Beta.

[SatStorm]

Betacrypt is a simply variation of Irdeto. Also PW transmits from Astra 1F, not recievable in many Southern European countries. So, it is not an option for me.

With season interface you don't have card limitations, like memory, speed etc. PC do anything and much faster (the only way to watch TV Cabo and Polsat (nagravision) for example, is through season)

Oracle, dreambox once called the patched nokia 9500. Back in 1998 that is. I just see what the new dreambox is and has no relation. It is simply a micronik style reciever.

The links I gave you have more links pointing to other interest stuff.

About pay tv piracy, there are plenty of sites about the subject, don't think that you gonna learn it all from a general post. It also needs reading.

[The village idiot]

Don't mean to cloud this posting any more than is needed but, back to the dream machine thingy. Anybody looked at these yet: http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_m_spec.jsp?motherboardId=81 . You can get a 533 Mhz that does not need a cooling fan. And with 32 MB of flash "disk" you could get a sizeable amount of linux to boot from that flash.





changed the link

[Anonymous65]

Stand-alone DVD recorders might get quite popular. They are fast, easy to use, and get the job done.

Capturing DVD video on the PC is slow, you need a powerful PC to edit, authoring takes forever (I have never unstood why this process is needed), and burning takes forever. Then, the disks play on some DVD players, but certainly not all.

[SatStorm]

The quality of DVD standalone recorders is good only on high bitrates. The real benefit they have is that they are easy to use. Expecially on middle age users.

The benefits of PC are many. About DVB transmission, I can say only that the minimum PC required for DVB ripping with DVB2000/Nokia 9600 is pentium 2 @ 500mhz (if you want multiplexing on the fly) or Pentium 2 @ 233 (seperate m2v and mpa). So, DVB riping don't need much powerfull hardware. About filesize, there are quality DVB transmissions, with 704 X 576 framesize @ 4000kb/s. So, you can burn much more that way, than with DVD standalone recorders....