MiniDV vs Digital8?

[PlaiBoi]

Hi, im looking around at digital camcorders and have a question. Which is better, MiniDV or Digital 8? As far as I know, Digital8 is developed and endorsed only by Sony, while MiniDV is suported by many companies. But, I also see that with Digital8, tapes cost less (8mm tapes), and comparable cameras (to MiniDV) cost less. Am I missing something here, or do i get more for less money with a Digital8 camera? Please let me know what you guys think and/or recommend. TIA.

[energy80s]

Mini DV is the only way to go. Digital 8 was only invented to give existing 8mm video owners a digtal alternative that was compatible with their existing recordings. Mini DV (in various tape sizes) is used throughout the broadcast industry and will be around for many years to come, Digi 8 won't.

[PlaiBoi]

ok...thanx. Also...do u have any recommendations? For the entry-level to mid-range camera?

[thegman45]

First of all it comes down to a matter of price. Digital 8 camcorders are cheaper as is the tape - however - they are also bigger.

As for the quality - I have not been able to tell the difference. both formats are superior

the cameras seem to have the same features and both have firewire for DV editing

I have used both and transferred between them - both formats are great - however if you want a smaller camcorder then you must go minidv

[shadowrunner]

They use the exact same compresion methods the only difference is the media and as posted above the size of the camara. I tried both and preffered the slightly larger digital8 (more comfortable fit).

[PlaiBoi]

MiniDV looks promising...but i cant find a reason to want to pay an extra $200 and get less power. Sony's Digital8 cameras all have more than 10x optical zoom, while Sony's MiniDV cameras are pretty much all limited to 10x optical zoom. If the quality is the same, features same (if not better with D8 ), cheaper, and cheaper media, then y should i pick MiniDV over D8? Is there anyother factor im missing here? Besides the fact that D8 cameras are slightly larger than MiniDV cameras. About, how much bigger do you think the entry-level D8 camera is compared to the entry-level MiniDV camera by Sony? I have a 8mm camera right now...are the D8 cameras about this big?

[Greg12]

i choose D8 because I was upgrading from 8mm camera and I want to be able to play back my 8 and Hi8 tapes. (the old 8mm camera broke)

I have no complaints with the format.

[GenkaNT]

8)
I have Di8 for 4 years now. Greate quality and so on...
About MiniDV, well, as you said, lower to mid class cameras, You better off with latest model of Di8. I have found $550 latest model somewhere on internet.
MiniDV has greate advantage if you go with 3CCD models ($1500 - $3500). Then you will see the difference in quality.
Overall, for about $600 you will get latest model of Di8 from Sony(my preference), AND you can do DVD class videos as well.

[PlaiBoi]

One thing that I think is a bit weird about Sony Di8 cameras is that the higher end models only have 15x optical zoom, while the lower end Di8 cameras have like 25x optical zoom. Whats up with that?

[Jester700]

A couple things:

1) 8mm media will be around plenty long enough. There's a huge installed base. I suspect they'll be supplanted by disc at the same time. The fact that broadcast uses DV is a non-issue to a consumer. How many of us cared that broadcast pros used 3/4" U-matic, ED Beta, etc.?

2) The only technological advantage to DV is size, and that's a preference call. Bigger cams are easier to steady. But a small DV cam that fits in a pocket is COOL. Of course you pay for that kind of miniaturization, and the optics on that small a model are likely to be of lesser quality...

3) If you have 8mm and Hi8 tapes, the ability to play them back in the D8 cam is cool (with DNR & TBC, no less!). But some of Sony's new models don't do this, so if this is an issue, look carefully.

I have a D8 (TRV120) because at the time its quality and features couldn't be matched by DV at that price and I didn't care about size. The decision would be tougher for me now.

[hxc3634]

I recommend Canon Elura2 or Elura MC40. You can find it around $650 at price search engine.
I got Elura2 2 years ago. It has the size of your hand and very light weight. It can fit a big pocket. Once you got this size you will never want big camcorder. If you has a baby and frequently takes picture, this small size is the way to go.
I prefer Canon to sony because it's cheaper and better color. My friend has sony Digital8. Its color is dull when I compare with Canon. Everybody loves sony but I don't know why. It's just my opinion.

[xed]

I use a Digital 8 camcorder but you might want to consider MiniDV camcorders.
[1] As for the contention that MiniDV is for lower-end camcorders, sorry, but the facts contradict that claim. The highest-end prosumer
camcorders, the Canon LX1a and the Sony VX2000, both use MiniDV -- not Digital 8.
[2] This is very important -- Sony has REMOVED analog audio/video input from their latest Digital 8 camcorders. Yes, that's right, folks...if you buy Sony's latest midline Digital 8 camcorders you can no longer record an audiovisual signal INTO the camcorder.
This means that you can no longer use the latest midline D8 camcorders to archive stuff like VHS tapes or to record live TV broadcasts. That's a BIG drawback.
So I would _avoid_ the latest D8 camcorders. (If you can find an older
one in good condition, however, you might wanna go for it. I have a 4-year-old Sony D8 that has full analog in and works perfectly. It's a superb and very low-cost method of archiving older analog video, much cheaper than a DV in card for your computer -- and the storage media is relatively cheap, down to around $2.25 per 1 hour of full DV!)

[PlaiBoi]

@Xed

Sony has REMOVED analog audio/video input from their latest Digital 8 camcorders

What do you mean Sony stopped including a/v input/output? The TRV740 and TRV840, which are the latest models, still have a/v input/ouput.

@hxc3634

I recommend Canon Elura2 or Elura MC40.

I was also considering the 40MC, but i heard it made loud noises while recording that would be picked up by the camera and recorded.

How do you think the Elura 40MC compares to the Sony TRV740? The TRV740 is Digital8, Elura is MiniDV.

I've found the TRV740 for about $580 (including shipping).

[vitualis]

The main advantage with Digital8 is that it maintains compatibility with Video8 and Hi8 tapes while giving you a digital recording medium.

The fact that the recorders also tend to be bigger may or may not be an advantage.

The main disadvantage of Digital8 is that it is a Sony only technology and the trend is towards miniDV.

The main advantages of miniDV over Digital8 is that the recorders are smaller and so is the media. It is also supported by a number of manufacturers (so you don't have to necessarily buy Sony).

The main disadvantage is probably price and lack of support for Video8 (which may more may not be important to some).

Regards.

[PlaiBoi]

After looking at alot of cameras...ive come down to these few ( i think ).

Sony DCR-TRV740 (Digital8)
Sony DCR-TRV340 (Digital8)
Sony DCR-TRV18 (MiniDV)
Canon ZR50MC (MiniDV)

Now. I have a question. The TRV340 and the ZR50MC only have 460k pixel, while the TRV740 has 1.0 mega pixel and the TRV18 has 680k pixel. Does the amount of pixels play as big a role as it does with digital still cameras?

btw, the TRV340 and ZR50MC cost around $530, and the TRV18 and TRV740 cost about $590.

[Jester700]

I use a Digital 8 camcorder but you might want to consider MiniDV camcorders.
[1] As for the contention that MiniDV is for lower-end camcorders, sorry, but the facts contradict that claim. The highest-end prosumer
camcorders, the Canon LX1a and the Sony VX2000, both use MiniDV -- not Digital 8.

I don't think anyone WAS saying that. In fact, my next cam is likely to BE a VX2000 (or whatever Sony replaces it with, since it may be a while!)

Hitachi also makes D8, but for the most part, yeah, it's a proprietary thing. Doesn't hinder it's usefulness, though...

WRT the CCD. There are main 2 factors in single chip CCDs affecting picture quality - REAL resolution and size of the sensing area. I say REAL res because many "megapixel" cams only use that much resolution when capping stills. The sensing area used for video is smaller - thus lower res. Doing this also results in worse low light performance, which is largely dependent on how much light hits the sensing area. A large lens and 1/4" CCD will generally do better than a small lens & 1/6" CCD. When only half the sensing area of that 1/6" chip is used for video, it doesn't matter HOW high res the chip is - low light performance will suck.

Cams that use electronic image stabilization (most cams in lower price ranges) use less than the full CCD area as well - some "space" is needed for that function.

GOOD cams (Sony VX2000, Canon XL1, etc.) use 3 big chips - 1/3", IIRC.

[energy80s]

It might be worth considering the Canon 500/530/550 range. The picture & record quality is excellent (for the money) and if you go for the "i" models they all have analogue inputs so you can transfer old VHS, etc through the camcorder direct to a firewire port.

[SingSing]

Like most consumer, I went through the choice of D8 vs miniDV.
I ended up with a sharp digital view cam, now available less than $438.

It's view cam format handling and size is a big plus.
Picture is clear and able to handle low light is a big plus.
A lot of analog and digital cam can't capture in low light.

The pocket size does help to go place and shoot more.
A lot of people though it is a digitalCam, HaHa.

Cost of tape is not an issue.
You can firewire the capture into the Computer, edit it,
and then transfer it back to the tape, with little loss of quality.
( miniDV Claim lossless, but my eye does not agreed ).

Overall, D8 is solely Sony, and eventually it is become an odd ball,
linke MD, SACD, Beta ......

[yg1968]

Digital8 is also DV. You can easily transfer it to a miniDV camcorder (if you ever need to) through a firewire cable.

[SingSing]

Most people is tried to pick one of them.
Hardly anyone will own both formats.

It is true all digital camcoder can edit in PC,
and transfer back to the Camcoder.

The question is this "lossless" ?

[Jester700]

It is true all digital camcoder can edit in PC,
and transfer back to the Camcoder.

The question is this "lossless" ?

Yes, IF only cuts & joins are done. Titles, wipes, fades, etc. all require re-encoding at a very slight quality loss. One generation is unlikely to matter to anyone, if you're using a newer codec. Just avoid the original win98 MS one - it tinted things green & made them fuzzy.

[SingSing]

I still think I saw loss in quality ( but not dea people )
in cut and join.

Does it matter I use the TI or MS firewire driver ?
Are their different only in control but on quality ?

[RexEscape]

My 2 cents...

It's difficult to find Digital8 (8mm) tapes that are longer than 60min. The 120min that is available will give you only 60min and 17sec (D8 pulls the tape twice as fast cram in those DV data). By the way, you can use regular 8mm tapes. You don't have to buy Hi-8 or D8 tapes. Quality will be exactly the same because 0's and 1' are what's going on the brown strip (unlike analog info, like high bias and normal bias on audio tapes? remember those?)

I have seen 80min+ miniDV tapes. But they're expensive. I've only seen a few 8mm 150min tapes (which will give you about 75min in D8 recording time).

[SingSing]

Good point.

After all, the cheaper 8mm tape is not really a big advantage.

[yg1968]

SingSing,

You missed my point. DV is DV. It doesn't matter what tape that you use. The quality of DV on a digital 8 tape is just as good. Who cares if the tapes look different. You have the same functions than other camcorders. You can use the firewire connection to connect it to a computer, a digital camcorder or whatever else that accepts DV in.

[PlaiBoi]

Well, yes. Of coruse they're both DV. But the real question is, which is a better choice? At first i was leaning toward Digital8, but now im leaning toward MiniDV again. LOL. I keep changing my mind. I just have this feeling that Digital8 will eventually just die out because its only Sony.

I like the Elura 40MC. Anyone have it? Any ideas about it?

[Jester700]

I still think I saw loss in quality ( but not dea people )
in cut and join.

Does it matter I use the TI or MS firewire driver ?
Are their different only in control but on quality ?

The driver doesn't matter. Your software should not render the file if all you're doing is cut/joining and sending back to tape. DON'T do a "make AVI file" or similar - it should go right from the timeline out to tape. If it takes any time to render before starting the transfer to tape, something's wrong. IF it doesn't render the file, you're seeing things It's just a file transfer, like copying a file on a PC. There's no visual difference.

Some software allows you to do this when you DO have titles & fades, etc. It then only renders the parts that need it. I remember noticing the difference the MS codec (the old codec, NOT the firewire driver) made to the video.

When you "make avi", the codec will render everything. Still shouldn't be visible in one pass, though.

[SingSing]

SingSing,

You missed my point. DV is DV. It doesn't matter what tape that you use.

Oh, I means cost advantage. I agreed with you the quality is
more dependent on CCD, electronics, optic,...

[SingSing]

At this forum, you can see there are much more activities
on MiniDV than D8. Kind of implies that where we put
our money down. There are six or seevn Major MiniDV cam
makers, so the choice is broader. Unless, you want nothing but Sony.
Then, even Sony make miniDV ( with tape and MD media ).

[RexEscape]

Good point.

After all, the cheaper 8mm tape is not really a big advantage.

Actually, I see it as an advantage when comparing miniDV and D8 if cost is the factor. Since normal 8mm tapes are so cheap, people may go towards the D8 platform. miniDV tapes cost as much as 5 times the amount of normal 8mm. You'll have a better chance of finding 8mm tapes than miniDVs in small grocery stores when you're on your way to your event and realize that you have no fresh blank tapes, and you only have a few dollars to spend.

Again, you can use cheap, $2.00 8mm tapes. You don't have to spend $5 for a Hi8 or $7 for a D8, (or $12 for a miniDV). A $2-tape will give you the exact DV quality as with the expensive miniDV.