100 mins on a cd, possible ??

[smurf]

well, thats my problem, i hate to have a movie on 2 cds, so i thought, how i can make a movie on 1 cd, it shall be possible,

thanx, i look forward to read

[Treebeard]

Is it possible? the answer is yes.

will quality suffer? YES.

the only way to do it is to lower bitrate so 100 min will fit on 1 cd.
use a bitrate calculator and it will tell you what bitrate to use.

personally i wouldnt do this b/c the quality is unacceptable ( well in my opinion it is) but qaulity is in the eye of the holder

[smurf]

ooooohh thanx,

i did that, and, yeee, youve right, the quality sux,

but, when i lowed the bitrate to around 873, the size was still the same, or, its maybe the same as in music, the size doesnt matter, only the minutes

i dunno,

thanx,

[banjazzer]

You can fit easily 2 hours on an 80 minute CD, and the quality need not look any worse than standard VCD. But it won't be a standard VCD, and not all stand-alones play non-standard VCD. Typically, you would use TMPG with 2-pass VBR and max-bitrate=1150, min bitrate=300 and average determined by the Project wizard (or any bitrate calculator). You can also drop the audio from 224 to 160. Or if you are competent in basic maths, use CQ mode and halve the time.

And if you really want to go down this road, check out http://www.kvcd.net/ 8)

[MOVIEGEEK]

You can fit easily 2 hours on an 80 minute CD, and the quality need not look any worse than standard VCD. But it won't be a standard VCD, and not all stand-alones play non-standard VCD. Typically, you would use TMPG with 2-pass VBR and max-bitrate=1150, min bitrate=300 and average determined by the Project wizard (or any bitrate calculator). You can also drop the audio from 224 to 160. Or if you are competent in basic maths, use CQ mode and halve the time.

And if you really want to go down this road, check out http://www.kvcd.net/ 8)

I doubt if a standalone could play a vbr XVCD.
smurf,I've lowered audio to 112kbps without any audible loss.Consider getting a cd-writer that can overburn to 99 min.

[Digifreak]

100 minutes on 1 disc using 2 pass TMPGEnc is awful. The best thing to do for 100 minutes is use SVCD or even better CVD (352x480) encode with CCE, 6 pass, image quality priority 10. You will get a block-free encode just some bleed over on edges but I'm happy with it. Besides, it saves me a lot of discs.

[snowmoon]

smurf,I've lowered audio to 112kbps without any audible loss.Consider getting a cd-writer that can overburn to 99 min.

I've seen toys with better audio than a movie with 112kbps mpeg-1 l2 audio. Seriously even 160 is muddy at times. I perfer to do 192 all the time, but some encodes just don't work out that way.

[banjazzer]

I doubt if a standalone could play a vbr XVCD.

Many stand-alones play vbr VCD, including very cheap ones. Until recently, all Apex did. My Pacific 750 does. My Cyberhome and Philips 633 do, and all are low-budget players. But, it is important to check first.

[banjazzer]

100 minutes on 1 disc using 2 pass TMPGEnc is awful.

This is incorrect. If you think standard VCD is awful, then it is correct. I am saying that in most cases 2 hours vbr VCD (xVCD) will be as good as an 80 minute VCD. And if you want to optimise your templates using Kwag's, then the quality is likely to be better. But VCD has limitations - we all know that.

[adam]

Its not incorrect its his opinion and personally I agree with him.

If you are happy with low bitrate encodes, thats cool. If your not satisfied with the quality, that's cool too, but there is no right or wrong about it.

[banjazzer]

Correct, it his opinion. Incorrect, that it is correct. Many who pontificate about VCD don't actually watch VCD, because they consider it an inferior format. You are limited to 1150 kbps for the video. This is not a lot compared with mpeg-2. Because it is not a lot, it is better that the limited number of bits are allocated where they are needed. CBR can never do that. The biggest limitation of VCD is the constant bitrate, not 1150 kbps.

I may have guessed wrong but I suspect you rarely watch VCD. If you encoded vbr VCD as I suggested you would be unlikely to detect whether it was 2 hours vbr or 80 minutes cbr.

I was taking to task the statement 100 minutes on 1 disc using 2 pass TMPGEnc is awful. This is absolutely incorrect, and part of the nonsense that is often spouted here by those who like to look down on VCD. And the fact that you agree with him is neither here not there, except for the impressionable.

[snowmoon]

I was taking to task the statement 100 minutes on 1 disc using 2 pass TMPGEnc is awful. This is absolutely incorrect, and part of the nonsense that is often spouted here by those who like to look down on VCD. And the fact that you agree with him is neither here not there, except for the impressionable.

Well it's not really a VCD anymore now is it!

Despite what others have said SVCD or CVD at those bitrates is all but impossible ( Unless you love modern impressionism 8) ). There are rare cases that might look ok, but who wants to watch grass grow for 100 minutes.

So to sum it up, sure you CAN put 100 minutes on a disk. I can put 8 movies on a disk too, but the quality would suck. SVCD's would suck even more. So while it is possible, it's not standards compliant or pretty.

[fmctm1sw]

Uh oh, back to the old CBR vs. VBR thread. Yeaaaaaaaah!

[banjazzer]

So to sum it up, sure you CAN put 100 minutes on a disk. I can put 8 movies on a disk too, but the quality would suck. SVCD's would suck even more. So while it is possible, it's not standards compliant or pretty.

No, it is not standard VCD. It is non-compliant VCD. Yet many players that play VCD will also play xVCD.

Now, if you don't like VCD in the first place, there is no point arguing further. I know the quality of SVCD and DVD. I don't argue that VCD can compare.

But If you are happy with VCD, I can encode 100-120 minutes xVCD at the same quality. In fact, in many cases it is possible to improve on VCD quality by using 300-1300 kbps range. And this is using standard templates, not optimised ones like Kwag's.

I find your arguments unconvincing, because like adam, I don't believe you actually watch VCD. In fact some would not even stoop to use TMPG.

[adam]

banjazzer I think you need to chill out. Why does it offend you that many people think 2 hrs on a disk is about 1hr too many?

About half my movie collection is 2.0 vcds and I watch them all the time. Sure I have moved on to SVCD and CVD now but I still enjoy my old vcds. I've tried cramming 2hrs onto a single cd use VBR and to my eyes it looks worse than a standard vcd. Again, just my opinion. Disagree if you want but don't read into it so much.

[banjazzer]

banjazzer I think you need to chill out.

I'm so chilled I'm ice cold. I respect a lot of what you say, but I have noticed as people move on to other formats then they tend to decry the ones they moved away from. I have even see someone decrying SVCD as totally inferior to DivX. I encode to VCD, SVCD and DivX, and I know the limitations and advantages of each format. I have moved mainly to SVCD now, and I also appreciate the benefit of using CCE. However, I don't compare VCD with SVCD (or DivX). 8)

If you think 2 hours on disc is one hour too many, you are thinking from an SVCD perspective. Because, as you know quite well, you can get 80 minutes VCD on one disc. My standpoint is, if you are happy with 80 minutes one one disc, you can just as easily get 100-120 minutes on one disc at the same quality. No, this will be nowhere near SVCD quality, but it will be at standard VCD quality.

[adam]

Ok but I have never said anything bad about vcd, nor do I feel it is an inferior format. I think the best format is the one that fits your needs. I make vcds all the time because my dad's dvd player doesnt support svcd or xvcd. I know the quality could be better, but I accept the quality because its the best available under the circumstances.

Just because I prefer SVCD over VCD that does not mean I cannot make a subjective analysis of a low bitrate xvcd and formulate an opinion. I don't like em, you do, woopee.

Again, there is no correct or incorrect here, we are talking about people's opinions. You are free to have your own so just let other people have theirs, even if you think they are being biased.

[banjazzer]

Well, you were defending the statement 100 minutes on 1 disc using 2 pass TMPGEnc is awful. You can defend the statement that this guy thinks 100 minutes on 1 disc using 2 pass TMPGEnc is awful. , but he didn't say that!

Now, if he want to make another post saying this is what he thinks, then I won't expose it for the nonsense it is. 8)

[banjazzer]

To conclude:

VCD is good quality: Opinion.

100-120min vbr VCD can be equal quality to 80 min cbr VCD: Fact

You should know this from comparing 35min cbr SVCD to 50-60 min vbr.

[snowmoon]

100-120min vbr VCD can be equal quality to 80 min cbr VCD: Fact

Hardly fact. It depends greatly on the source video and is not guarteed. You make it out to be set in stone. The change in average Q levels from reducing the average bitrate can be signifigant when the source does not have true "quiet" moments ( from the encoders point of view ). For the most part VCD is bitrate starved TO BEGIN WITH.

It has nothing to do with the format or the encoder, it's just how mpeg VBR operates.

[banjazzer]

Hardly fact. It depends greatly on the source video

All encoding depends on the source video. But if you can get 80 minutes cbr on a disc you can get 100-120 minutes vbr on the same sized disc at the same or better quality. This is not conjecture, this is absolute fact, whether you choose to believe it or not. Sometimes 100 minutes will look bad, but so will a standard VCD. I am not arguing about the quality of VCD, but rather that xVCD can encode a longer source to equal (or better) quality. This is indisputable to those who have actually done it. This is not a debate about whether VCD is inferior to SVCD, but whether the limitations of cbr can be improved upon. Of course they can, but you no longer have a standard compliant VCD.

[Digifreak]

This thread is turning into a circus. MY OPINION: When I try to cram 100 minutes SVCD or CVD on 1 disc (and I only do this for non-action flicks) I get better results using CCE 6 pass Image Quality Priority 10 than I do with TMPGEnc 2 pass using any templates. If you're happy with TMPGEnc then stick with it, I only offer my opinion and suggestions to the person that wanted a method to fit 100 minutes. That way they can try it with any encoder they want and see what meets their threshold for quality.

[banjazzer]

This thread is turning into a circus.

Yes, but there's no need to audition for clown. Nobody is advocating cramming 100 minutes on one CD. Personally, I like SVCD 50-60 minutes per CD. However, if you usually watch VCD, and are happy with VCD, you can get 100-120 minutes per CD at the same quality you used to get 80 minutes. (With the proviso that not all players will play it). This is not the same thing as saying this is the way people should be going.

I have started experimenting with CCE, and no question it is very good. However, those who know what they are doing will get almost equal (if not equal) quality with TMPG, but they will take a lot longer about it. And if they want VCD, they will probably get better quality

The sooner people stop treating video as a religion, the better.

[adam]

Banjazzer you need to learn to respect other people's opinions even if they differ from yours. If there is one thing that should be glaringly apparant it is that whenever you are dealing with an inherantly subjective thing such as "quality" there are NO facts.

Why are you bringing up SVCD, DIVX, CCE, and TMPGenc, you seem to be the only one arguing about these? What do these things have to do with this discussion? You are trying to start yet another flame war in an otherwise innocent thread. Just drop it, your opinion has been duly noted. Just let people decide for themselves what looks good and what looks "awful." Why do you even care?

BTW, I think your bold button is stuck.

[jeex]

well. if you have the right equipment, according to toms hardware.com.. you can infact burn a 100minute cd-r.. audio or vcd styles..

[banjazzer]

you need to learn to respect other people's opinions

I always respect peoples' opinions when they are put forward as opinions. When they put forward their opinions as fact I do not respect them, particularly when they are wrong.

100 minutes on 1 disc using 2 pass TMPGEnc is awful.

Stated as fact. Wrong.

If you don't like VCD, fair enough. If you don't like TMPG, fair enough. But the point I responded to, and you were so quick to defend, is absolutely wrong. The fact you are moderator does not give you the gift of righteousness, whatever you may think. You have been wrong in the past, and are wrong now defending the indefensible.

By all means defend a person's right to an opinion. But don't defend an opinion promoted as fact.

[banjazzer]

You are trying to start yet another flame war in an otherwise innocent thread. Just drop it,

What nonsense you talk. Where is the flame war? I am correcting misleading information. And I will drop it when I feel fit, not when you do. I will post while the thread is active. Unless you want to ban me. 8)

[adam]

The Dallas Cowboys are AWFUL, their defense STINKS, their coach is a LOSER, their fans are HEARTLESS, etc...

Do you want me to prove these things as fact or isn't is just obvious that I am stating my opinion on the matter? If someone says x is terrible obviously its because they THINK it is. How do you prove something is terrible? As I already said when dealing with quality there are NO facts, only opinions. At best you are just arguing semantics, at worst you are being childish and combative. In any case just DROP IT, because I can assure you that no one cares except you.

[banjazzer]

If you do not like VCD, 100 minutes on one disc will not appeal.

If you normally watch VCD, and are happy with the quality, then you can fit 100-120 minutes on a non-compliant VCD, which will equal the quality of standard VCD, and in certain cases can will improve on the quality.

These are the facts of variable bitrate as against constant bitrate. As moderator, you don't need me to spell out how this works. Whether you like this or not is immaterial.

100 minutes on 1 disc using 2 pass TMPGEnc is awful. is an opinion. A wrong opinion. A stupid opinion, put forward as fact. And probably put forward by someone who sneers at VCD. This only has validity if you don't think much of VCD in the first place.

If someone thinks VCD is crap, that is fine. I am not saying VCD is good or bad, as that is an opinion. What I am saying is that you can fit a lot more on a CD at VCD quality than standard VCD does. That is not an opinion. That is indisputable fact.

just DROP IT, because I can assure you that no one cares except you.

Well, someone must care, or this thread would have ended a while back.

[vitualis]

Keep cool people...

Standard VCD = 1150 kbit/s CBR

It will be fairly certain that if I make an VBR XVCD with an average bitrate of 1150 kbit/s (with a max. that is something higher), I can get BETTER video quality than standard.

However, if I make a VBR XVCD with an average bitrate of only about 900 kbit/s (approx. 100 min on 80min CD), the subsequent disc may look better than standard, but it can also look worse. The question is whether or not the switch to VBR encoding is enough to counterweigh the significant drop in average bitrate.

I'm of the opinion that it often doesn't (though 100 min on an 80min CD isn't that crazy) simply as someone said up there that the bitrate for standard VCDs is pretty constrained already. However, I'm sure you can still get some good results (especially DVD rips with significant letterboxing) and they may be as good as standard VCDs for most people.

Regards.