Panasonic DMR-HS2 is here!

[mcpix]

After 3 weeks on pre-order, my DMR-HS2 showed up today!

I haven't had a lot of time to try it out, but here's how it compares to my DMR-E20 (or the newer E30)

One of the biggest improvements is that you can now edit video before transferring to DVD-R. You simply record to the hard drive, make your edits (deleting, shortening or moving scenes) and then burn to the DVD-R.

Creating a DVD-R with menus is also much easier. As on the DMR-E20/30, the opening menu screen on a finalized DVD-R lists all "programs". The only way on the earlier machines to create a new program, was to stop recording, and then start recording a "new" program. This meant that if you wanted to have more than one title per tape, you had to sit by your machine (or set a timer) until the exact moment and then press stop.

On the HS2 you simply record the whole original program. Then you can go in and "divide" the program into as many (I think up to 99) parts as you want and give each one a seperate title. Speaking of titling, anyone that has used the remote for titling on the DMR-E20 will love the new remote on the HS2. The tiny joystick has been replaced by arrow keys, and two of the most common keys (space and delete) are mapped directly to the remote. It's much faster than before to add titles.

When you're ready to finalize your DVD-R you can pick from 9 different backgrounds for your titles. Not as fancy as a commercial DVD, but still very professional looking. Much nicer than the old title screen on my DMR-E20.

One other cool thing about recording to the hard drive is that it makes copying so easy. Once you have your program just the way you like it, you can dub as many copies as you want. On my DMR-E20 each DVD-R had to be created from scratch.

I don't have a DV camcorder so I haven't tested that out yet. The manual says that when your record from a DV machine, it will automatically create play lists by detecting when the camcorder was paused or stopped.

DMR-E30 OR DMR-HS2? No contest. For the approx. $200 difference, the HS2 offers so much more. Although they're great machines, I think most people will eventually get frustrated with the limitations of the DMR-E20/30. The HS2 is what a stand alone DVD recorder should be.

-Max

[TuxOmatic]

Thanks for the report, MCPIX. I've been very anxious to hear from anyone about this machine. I didn't preorder one cuz I wanted to get some hands-on info from others first. One area that I'm very interested is the DV input. Too bad you don't have a DV camcorder or firewire out on your computer to test it.

One question: Darkhunter posted a problem that he was having with finalized disks, something you commented on. This was before you received your order. Have you tested that? Are you experiencing the same problem?

Thanks again.

[leebo]

Just some heresay from a glass is half empty kind of guy:

Another forum has brought up an issue with all the current Panasonic set top DVD recorders.

When recording to DVD-R, the black level is incorrect, resulting in a washed out picture.

Haven't seen this myself, I'm only reporting it for those thinking of purchasing one.

[Eug]

DMR-E30 OR DMR-HS2? No contest. For the approx. $200 difference, the HS2 offers so much more.

I bought the DMR-E30. Why?

1) The price difference (usually around US$250 difference, which is significant at about a 45% difference). The E30 comes at under CAD$1000 locally. (The HS2 would be US mail order and thus would cost a lot more. I'm not prepared to pay CAD$1500 after all is said and done for US mail order.)

2) I don't do a lot of editing. For the complex stuff I'd probably use my Mac or PC anyway (since I already own a PC DVD-RAM/-R drive). This route plus a DMR-E30 does offer some advantages to the DMR-HS2 alone, although even better would be a PC drive and a DMR-HS2 (if you've got the $$$).

3) I didn't feel like waiting. That's a moot point now though since both the DMR-E30 and the DMR-HS2 are now available.

Anyways, I think the DMR-E30 is a great little unit. If you want to spend the extra coin on the DMR-HS2 that's fine, as it's a great unit as well. However, just because the DMR-HS2 does have some useful extra features, it's not something that can be recommended to absolutely everyone. Now if it were the same price, that would be a different story.

[mcpix]

As far as the black level thing goes, I've never seen it on any of my DVD-R's. They always look better than the original tape.

Eugene has some good points too. I still think my DMR-E20 is a great machine, and I'm often in the position where I can barely afford the $600 let alone pay $800 for a new deck.

Still, I didn't have a DVD-Ram recorder in my computer, so I was trying to create DVD-R's with just the one deck. It can be done, but there was no room for error. If you stopped recording too soon or too late there was no way to fix it. I recently had a job for 14 DVD-R copies from one videotape. I had to set a timer and make sure I stopped the deck at just the right spot 14 times ( I blew it once and made a coaster). Plus I had to go in and create the menu 14 times.

That's why I think the HS2 is so great. I can now easily edit my video and get it just the way I want it before I burn a DVD-R. If someone wants extra copies I just put in a blank DVD-R and dub away! It's a stand alone DVD recorder that can really "stand alone".

-Max

[Eug]

I recently had a job for 14 DVD-R copies from one videotape. I had to set a timer and make sure I stopped the deck at just the right spot 14 times ( I blew it once and made a coaster). Plus I had to go in and create the menu 14 times.

Hmmm... The HS2 would be good for that of course, but even with the HS2, when you get some more dough in the bank you should consider getting a PC drive.

If you get a Pioneer DVR-104 you can clone any DVD-R (whether or not the data is still on your HS2's hard drive) and make as many copies as you want, burned at 2X. Plus you can put data on the same disc if you want. Or of course you can author your own video. I sometimes take JPEGs and make a slideshow for family and friends. When I'm finished I will have lots of space left over of course and will put in a separate directory the JPEG files along with the original music for the soundtrack, etc. This in no way affects DVD playback. The discs still work fine in all DVD-R compatible machines I've tried.

If you get a Panasonic drive (what I have), besides the above you can also edit your DVD-RAM directly on the computer, and export video files, etc. If you edit with Panasonic DVD Movie Album software, the edits will be understood and played fine on your HS2 or E20. Very cool. (Well, they work with my E30 anyway. I assume the same is true for the HS2 and E20.)

These drives are in the $250 range these days.

[leebo]

As far as the black level thing goes, I've never seen it on any of my DVD-R's.

Are you playing it in a non-Panasonic player? These guys say they didn't notice it when they played it in a Panasonic player, but they did in other brands.

If you stopped recording too soon or too late there was no way to fix it. I recently had a job for 14 DVD-R copies from one videotape. I had to set a timer and make sure I stopped the deck at just the right spot 14 times ( I blew it once and made a coaster).

This stumps me. Are you saying that if you don't manually stop the recordings, the recorder wont stop it by itself?

[darkhunter]

I still have troubles with the finalized disc's, but I mean they read on in my dvdrw drive so no biggie I guess besides the fact that it reads so much slower. Overall though i'm more than happy with the HS2 fantastic unit. Worth every pennie to me.

[oldfart13]

DMR-E30 OR DMR-HS2? No contest. For the approx. $200 difference, the HS2 offers so much more.

I bought the DMR-E30. Why?

1) The price difference (usually around US$250 difference, which is significant at about a 45% difference). The E30 comes at under CAD$1000 locally. (The HS2 would be US mail order and thus would cost a lot more. I'm not prepared to pay CAD$1500 after all is said and done for US mail order.)

Interesting 'cause I got quoted $1,400CAD from eCost to ship directly to my door and that included all taxes and duties. The E30 if bought in Canada would be $1,150CAD after taxes...

2) I don't do a lot of editing. For the complex stuff I'd probably use my Mac or PC anyway (since I already own a PC DVD-RAM/-R drive). This route plus a DMR-E30 does offer some advantages to the DMR-HS2 alone, although even better would be a PC drive and a DMR-HS2 (if you've got the $$$).

I have no other drive but after the stiff conversion times I have been having to put up with in order to convert VHS to SVCD, AND being able to edit, this would be a boon for me...

3) I didn't feel like waiting. That's a moot point now though since both the DMR-E30 and the DMR-HS2 are now available.

Not in Canada. Panasonic is not marketing the HS2 in Canada. Weird, since the Toshiba DVD Recorder will be out the end of October according to their marketing people...


Anyways, I think the DMR-E30 is a great little unit. If you want to spend the extra coin on the DMR-HS2 that's fine, as it's a great unit as well. However, just because the DMR-HS2 does have some useful extra features, it's not something that can be recommended to absolutely everyone. Now if it were the same price, that would be a different story.

$250CAD is a pretty cheap price to pay for SO much more...

[Eug]

[quote="oldfart13"][quote="Eug"]

DMR-E30 OR DMR-HS2? No contest. For the approx. $200 difference, the HS2 offers so much more.

$250 US more, or a bit more considering shipping and brokerage.

[oldfart13]

No, the $1,400CAD was a quote I got from eCost and included shipping, handling, PST, GST and Duty. If you're near to the border and can find a Best Buy store, maybe they'll price match eCost. Some people on the AVSForum have commented that some stores will do this, while others will not...

[Eug]

No, the $1,400CAD was a quote I got from eCost and included shipping, handling, PST, GST and Duty. If you're near to the border and can find a Best Buy store, maybe they'll price match eCost. Some people on the AVSForum have commented that some stores will do this, while others will not...

There likely is no duty on such a purchase, although there may be duty. Up to the customs officer, since duty technically should be paid on anything that isn't made in the US (and that would include the DMR-HS2).

Also, does it include brokerage charges?

In any case, for stuff like this I prefer buying within Canada, because of warranty issues. It's a huge headache to have to send back a $1000 piece of equipment for repair - customs problems going both directions. Plus the fact that all purchases at ecost.com are final. (I have made large purchases before from the US, but I when I do, I always have to think hard and weigh the risks. I have no qualms with lower priced stuff though.)

Let's go through some calculations:

Unit: US$750
Tax: 15% = US$112
Shipping: US$40
Brokerage: US$50

Total: $952 ~ $1520 (real life exchange rate yesterday - I just bought some US bux). Even if you ship via other methods and avoid brokerage charges, it's still gonna be almost CAD$1500. If you go with somebody else that accepts returns, then the total cost is more like CAD$1600.

Including GST and PST, the DMR-E30 is CAD$1035 at some places locally. To spend 50% more to get the HS2 is a fair chunk of extra cash, especially when you don't even get a proper warranty with it.

Something for the Canadians to think about. That said, it's still a consideration, since an HS2 will be more appropriate for many people.

[oldfart13]

This is the part where we get into costs based on local suppliers. For the record, in Canada the HS2 will not be marketed by Panasonic. I like to buy Canadian too BUT in this case, I can't. And getting a low price locally, that's a joke. The low price is $999CAD last I checked (yesterday) for the E30. That's less tax, so it's $1,150CAD total. If you are in some bigger center and can get it lower, bully for you. I can't. Therefore, whatever means that eCost is using to get the HS2 to my door directly brokerage fees or no for $1,400CAD complete is a pretty good price to me...

[Eug]

This is the part where we get into costs based on local suppliers. For the record, in Canada the HS2 will not be marketed by Panasonic. I like to buy Canadian too BUT in this case, I can't. And getting a low price locally, that's a joke. The low price is $999CAD last I checked (yesterday) for the E30. That's less tax, so it's $1,150CAD total. If you are in some bigger center and can get it lower, bully for you. I can't. Therefore, whatever means that eCost is using to get the HS2 to my door directly brokerage fees or no for $1,400CAD complete is a pretty good price to me...

I thought the ecost.com number is just an estimate, not an actual quote. But if it's CAD$1400, even without inclusion of the brokerage charges, that's a pretty good deal.

As for the DMR-E30, I paid CAD$999 too, but now they're available in the 'burbs for CAD$900. Oh well. That extra $100 saved me a 45 min drive. :P

By the way, I'm in Atlanta at the moment. I saw the HS2 at Best Buy (US$999). I must say, if you can, order the black. To me anyway, the black (which is what all Canadian DMR-E30s are) looks much better than the chrome (which is all the local Best Buy carries for some reason).

[lourenc2]

i dont understand standalone dvd burners.....why wouldnt someone just get a good video card to capture and then get a pc dvd burner...with a standalone u will never take advantage of dolby digital audio

[oldfart13]

Wrongo! The Toshiba standalone DVD recorder can record in Dolby Digital. Check this out:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165397&highlight=toshiba+dvd+recorder

[Eug]

i dont understand standalone dvd burners.....why wouldnt someone just get a good video card to capture and then get a pc dvd burner...

I have both a PC burner and a standalone. A standalone does simple conversions painlessly. A PC burner offers more flexibility but simple tasks take way more effort than a standalone. Using a PC burner to do simple VHS to DVD for example, is like using a PC with modem as an answering machine. It can be done, and a PC with modem can do way more than a basic answering machine, but what a hassle... Plus with a PC based video capture system you always have to worry about dropped frames, etc.

Wrongo! The Toshiba standalone DVD recorder can record in Dolby Digital.

Just about any DVD recorder records in Dolby Digital. Dolby Digital 2.0. No recorder on the planet does DD5.1 however.

[lourenc2]

i didnt mean to offend u or anyone else that has a standalone...if i had the money i would get both too...and when i said dolby digital i was referring to 5.1 my main concern right now for burning dvds is "dvd backup" but if i just wanted to record TV and i had the money a standalone would be great...again i apologize

[leebo]

I want you to say 23 Hail Marys.

[mcpix]

I've tried the DVD-R's I burned in the HS2 in two diferent computer DVD-Rom Drives and my Sony NS700. They looked great in all the drives.

My point about having to stop and start at exactly the correct spot, was since the DMR-E20/30 is essentially burning a disc on the fly, if you don't stop it at the right moment it will continue to record stuff you may not want to have on the disc. With the DMR-E20/30 there is no way to fix this. With the HS2 you can go in and easily erase the bad spots before burning a disc.

Speaking of the DMR-E20, I found a neat use for my old deck. I can copy a tape to DVD-RAM on my DMR-E20. I then use the "high speed dub" feature of the HS2 and copy the DVD-RAM to the hard drive. A two hour tape takes about 30 minutes to copy. I can then edit the tape and burn as normal. Granted there's no reason to use both decks most of the time. However, when I have a lot of tapes to copy at once, I can save time by copying on the DMR-E20 while I'm burning on the DMR-HS2.

-Max

[darkhunter]

thanks mcpix, guess it's just me then, maybe I will try a new DVD-Rom drive. I was using a Lite-On. Just won't read the finalized disc's. Will any DVD-R's made on the PC but nothing from the HS2

[thxkid]

ok, lets not forget about using a Ram discss. I bought a DMR-10 for $399 new and a DMR-E20 for $499 new and thats less than 1 HS2, with using the 1 hr speed with rams and editing I get perfect edited DVD'-R from DVD's or anything else I want to use to edit with, in the future when the 2x drives drop below $200 and they will around or after christmas, since the 4x drive will be out, then I'll get one fpr the PC but the simple ease of recording a DVD to a DVD-R is simple and very easy with using a timer where you can fit a 90 min. DVD perfect on a DVD-R at a higher bitrate than if you just record using the 2 hr mode and have 30minutes left on the disc. Has anyone tried using the cheaper DVD-R's out there on the HS2, like Primediscs for a $1.29 each, work great on my E20 and if anyone has bothered taking one of these E20's apart you will see that there is nothing more in there than a simple IDE DVD-R/Ram PC burner in there complete with the IDE cable, PC power cord and even the Pin switches for master of slave. Which makes me think I wonder what operating system is in these and could you swap out the original drive for another burner or even better, could you swap out hard drives on the HS2, providing they are still the basic insides as the E20(PC based).

[rbernath]

Can anyone provide more info on the Panasonic's tuner? I checked their web site and no mention of a tuner at all, or of coaxial inputs for a tuner! How do you record TV shows with this unit? If it does actually have a tuner, how many programs can you queue (eg. 8 like many VCRs, or more)?

Radames

[mcpix]

Yes, the HS2 has a 125 channel tuner and antenna inputs for cable. It is also set up for VCR+ codes.

It's much more versatile than a VCR. You can record up to 52 hours (EP mode) of material on the hard drive. You can set the timer for 32 different programs up to one month in advance.

-Max