Resize help plz

[BodyMaker]

I need to resive an AVI to frameserve to CCE, I was inteneding to use V/Dub and use the resize filter but i,m not sure on the settings boxes

I know it needs to be 720 x 480 for ntsc but there are 4 boxes

New Height
New width

and expand frame and letter box

frame height
frame width

i Guess the top 2 are 720 and 480 but what are the bottom 2 for ?

is there a better program ? can i use avisynth for resize , if so how , or would i need to use v/dub and avisynth ?

[Truman]

You can use both Avisynth and Vdub with various resize filters.
Calculate how to resize properly with FitCD or tell us the source frame size and the target aspect ratio. Then someone can do the calculation for you.

[BodyMaker]

Thanks Truman,

My source is AVi 576 x 320, 23.976 fps 16:9

i want to convert to Mpeg2 dvd compliant and keep 16:9
720 x 480 for NTSC.

[Truman]

New Height: 720
New width: 480
Since you are aiming for anamorphic DVD, you do not need to letterbox.
But I suggest to crop 4 lines to 576*316 before resizing to keep the aspect ratio.

The "expand frame and letter box" option is for letterboxing (add borders) when watching on a 4:3 TV.

If you like to use Avisynth,

Avisource()
BicubicResize(720,480,0,0.5,0,2,576,316)

Hope it helps.

[BodyMaker]

Thanks again , how do i crop before resizing, what does this do, and can i use avisynth for resize without v/dub ?

[BodyMaker]

Ok i was very tired yesterday lol, Ive suused out getting it running in cce, but when i use those settings truman :

BicubicResize(720,480,0,0.5,0,2,576,316)

The film comes out abit streched height wise, so i got FitCD as u recommended and it makes this script :

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2DEC.dll")
AviSource("D:\Video Editing\AVI only\jurassic park.avi")
BicubicResize(688,446,0,0.6,0,2,576,316)
TemporalSmoother(2,2)
AddBorders(16,17,16,17)
Trim(0,130715).FadeOut(150)
ResampleAudio(44100)


it says that the destination is 720*480 but resize to 688*446 but wont this make an mpeg2 that is not dvd compiant in an authoring program ?

And anyways i tried it and it also comes out a bit stretched height wise, could it be that the input file is not actually 16:9 even though it is wide screen ?

I notice there is a setting in the ratio box in CCE that says 2.21:1 could it be this

[UconN]

Greetings and Salutations
8)
In VD resize there are four dimensions. The first two are the actual picture size (not frame size)
720/576 = 1.25
1.25 * 320 = 400
first two boxes 720 and 400

The next two boxes is the actual frame size. In this case 720 and 480. This will add borders (40) which you can preview to see if the ratio is right.

[BodyMaker]

Right i understand that bit now but i was trying to use avisynth on its own to serve the AVi as v/Dub doesnt seem to want to properly i have version 1.4.10

[Truman]

You have checked the overscan (2 macroblocks). That is a good idea. Since you are adding borders as well, the final framesize will be dvd compliant.
Well, why is the image stretched anyway? I guess the source file is resized wrong, probably it is not an original, but a dvd rip, is it? Or there are still borders? However, play around with the resize filter settings. If 688*446 is stretched vertically, try 688*438, preview the *.avs in VirtualDub (F5) and if it is not enough, even lower the Y value until you figure out the proper framesize. Of course you have to preview a scene with a round object, best is a ball.
The aspect ratio option of ccesp refers to the target DAR, ccesp does not resize that way.

[BodyMaker]

Ok i was very tired yesterday lol, Ive suused out getting it running in cce, but when i use those settings truman :

BicubicResize(720,480,0,0.5,0,2,576,316)

The film comes out abit streched height wise, so i got FitCD as u recommended and it makes this script :

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2DEC.dll")
AviSource("D:\Video Editing\AVI only\jurassic park.avi")
BicubicResize(688,446,0,0.6,0,2,576,316)
TemporalSmoother(2,2)
AddBorders(16,17,16,17)
Trim(0,130715).FadeOut(150)
ResampleAudio(44100)


it says that the destination is 720*480 but resize to 688*446 but wont this make an mpeg2 that is not dvd compiant in an authoring program ?

And anyways i tried it and it also comes out a bit stretched height wise, could it be that the input file is not actually 16:9 even though it is wide screen ?

I notice there is a setting in the ratio box in CCE that says 2.21:1 could it be this

[BodyMaker]

Shit i never meant to do that quote

But its finally sunk in you have to add the top and bottom border on to the final size, I though it was just an overlay on top of the picture.

One thing though: 16 + 17 + 688 = 721
16 + 17 + 446 = 479

is that what u mean by the 2 macro blocks i dont quite understand that bit

And also can u tell me what the other numers are for :-

(688,446,0,0.6,0,2,576,316)

0,0.6.0,2 that bit

I understand the resize numbers and the crop numbers, Thanks truman your a star

[Truman]

The arguments for the AddBorders filter are as follows:
([clip,]left,top,right,bottom)
So 16+688+16=720 and 17+446+17=480

BicubicResize(688,446,0,0.6,0,2,576,316) is cropping and resizing at once, so it is the same as

Crop(0,2,576,316)#(left,top,source-width,source-height)
BicubicResize(688,446[,0,0.6])#(target-width,target-height[,b,c])

Also Crop (0,2,576,316) crops 2 scanlines top and 2 bottom. Crop(0,0,576,316) crops 4 lines bottom,
crop(0,4,576,316) crops 4 lines top.

b and c are parameters to adjust the properties of two-part cubic (by Mitchel and Netravali read more about it if you like). Avisynth's default setting is 1/3,1/3. 0,0.5-0,0.75 sharpens the image quite a lot, Check it out.

TV overscan area is the non-visible area of your TV set. So if you use the script above, you add borders to the overscan area to save bitrate. You wont see these borders. Average is 6-8 %, so if you are aiming for DVD, I recommend to skip 3 macroblocks, i.e. 3*16 pixels. So it looks like that:

#LoadPlugin("C:\WINNT\system32\MPEG2DEC.dll")
AVISource("D:\test\testfile.avi")
BicubicResize(672,446,0,2,576,316)
#TemporalSmoother(2,2)
AddBorders(24,17,24,17)

btw, I have calculated 672*446.

TemporalSmoother is not a Avisynth filter but a filter of the external plugin
MPEG2DEC.DLL. If the source is DivX, it is not necessary to smooth it even more.

[BodyMaker]

Thanks again truman, It all fits into place using the calculations above,
I forgot to mention that the source is divx, proberly ripped from a dvd and the aspect ratio seems ok

the reason it was streched was because i wasn't using the add borders properly, just one thing though ,I cant seem to get FitCD to come up with the settings u mention above

i understand it ok and all the settings exept for the round to sliders

And also whats the difference between normal widescreen and anormophic , so i can set the source and ouput anamorphic boxes if needed

[BodyMaker]

Sorry and also if u add borders left and right, does it just squeeze the picture up and not show up on the picture ? Stupid question i know but why

Why not just make the top and bottom borders a differnt size so the left and right ones are not needed

And if i am not going to use temporal smoothing do i still need to use the mpeg2dec Plugin



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Questions Questions All The Time Questions
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[Truman]

The "round to" slider is just a help to avoid errors. Just select "crop accurate"
and set all sliders to 1 and play with the Y-value of the framesize. Then you will see the effect.
If you are working with YUY2 sources, set the upper left slider to "2", because
YUY2 format stores the colour information for every two pixels horizontally only. The upper right slider should be at least "2" as well, but I am not too sure about this. The lower slider should be "16", because FitCD will calculate
the new framesize, that is a multiple of 16 pixels (macroblock boundary). For ccesp 2.50 it calculates to a multiple of 16 minus 2. (see the FitCD dokumentation for more details)

widescreen is a cinema format, i.e. 1:1.85 or 1:2.35. Anamorphic coded DVD have a displayed aspect ratio of 16:9 (framesize usually 720*480). So the resolution is actually higher than 720*480 @ DAR 4:3. Assuming, that the video bitrate is high enough, the quality of the video should be better. If you play an anamorphic DVD on a 4:3 TV, the player (the TV set?) will add the borders to display it properly. VCD and SVCD do not support it.

If you don't care about the overscan area, you don't need to add any borders around. But if you do, you have to take care to keep the proper ratio, so you need to add borders to all 4 sides.

If you do not use TemporalSmoother, you don't need to load the mpeg2dec plugin, but it does not matter if you do it anyway.

[BodyMaker]

Could Anyone tell me how to post an image like the one above of the FITCD box into your post, Ihave it as far as getting the box you want to display into your clipboard and edited to only show the bit you want in photosuite and then back to the clipboard again, But cant paste it into the post


I see there an image Box at the top of the text box when you are making a post but dont know how to use it

I would like to show the settings i have for the FitCD avisynth script, When i put all the optoins the same as above with the same size input AVI

[Truman]

Upload the image to any server (search for free webspace with www.google.com). Then add the image to the post as follows:

Well, it is just an example.

[BodyMaker]

[Truman]

You did not check the ITU-R BT.601-4 box as I did, that's why the difference.
Assuming that the source is resized properly, you should check it.

From the FitCD dokumentation: Many sources (especially
DVDs don't take care for the correct pixel-aspect, defined in this
standard. Instead of calculating with correct TV-pixel-forms (PAL:54/59
NTSC:11/10) the producers use some 'generic-aspects' 4:3 or 16:9 ...
These generic-aspects do not have the correct aspect-ratio on your
TV-set! Note that many guides upon aspect-ratios are wrong. If you're
interested in more about that, read:
http://toolbox.sgi.com/TasteOfDT/documents/video/lurker/pixelaspect.html
Conclusion: If the source has correct aspect: check the ITU-R BT.601-4
box. If you uncheck the box, a 'generic-pixel-aspect' of PAL:45/48 and
NTSC:9/8 is used which leads to e.g. exact 1.33333.[/i]

[BodyMaker]

Thanks i will give it a go

can you see that picture because i can't

[Truman]

can you see that picture because i can't

yes, I can. (Internet Explorer 6.0 and Mozilla 1.0)

[BodyMaker]

ok Ive finally cracked it, But i was not that impressed with the conversion, even though i had enough room on the dvd-r to encode at 5500kps Average VBR and did 3 passes with CCE, the final picure was not that good, is it possable to get dvd quality from a divx, or is the bit rate just too low to start with , I think that most of them are around 900kps im not to sure ?

When i encode from dvd to dvd-r ive only got to use 2200kps 2 pass to get an output that you cant really tell from the original

[BodyMaker]

saying that though i havent tried it with the avisynth script, From having the ITU-R BT.601-4 box ticked would this make a difference

And i also notice that your input is yuy2

And mine says div3

[Truman]

I did not expect a better result. DivX is a very lossy compression, you can not recover the details, that got lost during compression to DivX. Also up-scaling the framesize might yield even a worse looking image. DivX is a good format to store a video at a small filesize and to watch in on the PC monitor, but it is not a good source for MPEG conversions.

The slight difference between the final framesizes (pixel aspect ratio according ITU-R BT.601-4 or not) does not effect the quality that much.
For my screenshot I created a very short test clip, compressed with huffyuv, that's why my input is yuy2.

I do not join the quality discussions here on the forum, because it is a very subjective view. All I will offer is technical help.

[ocelot]

Truman thanks for your help so far but there are few things I dont understand. What is the corp function good for cause you corp and then border again and another thing is when I use FitCd and resize to 480*288 or I resize to 480*304 whats the effect of that cause my destination stay the same=480*480. I want to resize my avi(NTSC 640*272) to 480*360 like I did in virtualDub how would my script look like??

Thanks!!

[Truman]

FitCD does a very accurate image size calculation. Sometimes it is necessary to crop a couple of pixels to keep the the image in a proper width/length ratio. The MPEG encoder will add either a 1:1, 4:3, 16:9 or 2.11:1 aspect ratio flag. The Decoder, i.e. the DVD player will display the ratio as the flag was set. So it is necessary to resize to a proper frame size.
Example:
AviSource("D:\test/test.avi")
BicubicResize(480,288,1/3,1/3,4,0,632,272)
AddBorders(0,96,0,96)

or (macroblock optimized)

AviSource("D:\test/test.avi")
BicubicResize(448,272,1/3,1/3,8,0,624,272)
AddBorders(16,96,16,112)

SVCD (NTSC) resolution is always 480*480.
Avi has a DAR of 1:1, so it is a cropped 1:2.35 movie. That means, you can not resize to 480*360. It would be stretched vertically.
480*360 is only a rule of thumb for 16:9 movies.

Hope it helps.