ATI AIW capture problems

[cdhd2001]

Here is my system specs:

900 mhz athlon
640 mb ram
30 gb 7200 rpm hdd
ATI AIW 128 pro 32mb

Philips stand-alone DVD player

Here are my questions/problems:

1) I can not use Virtualdub to capture, it cannot find device
2) When I use ATI’s capture, mpg-1/2 capture is poor quality (using mmc).
3) ATI captured mpg-1/2 files require mux to be compliant. However they loose a/v sync. and none of posted fixes correct the problem. Audio sync not continuous, in sync at beginning, out of sync by 60 sec at end.
4) ATI captured avi’s with resolution greater than 640x240, interlacing occurs (very poor quality in motion)

So far the best setting I have been able to use is:

ATI’s capture
Divx codec (have no way to change bitrate, approx. 16mb/min)
400x240 resolution
Use Tmpgenc to convert to VCD
Highest motion setting, soften blocks toggle
Audio gap= 400

Why would the original Divx be in “sync” and the conversion (without the audio gap correction) be out of sync? Thank god it is a continuous sync problem, not the exponential kind I experienced with the mpg-1/2's.

Thanks!

[ranma_st]

Hi:

Regarding the Virtualdub problem, it is very possible tha you need the "WRAPPER". Take a look in this guide:

http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/userguides/77807.php

I also have an ATI AIW, and had the same problem with Vdub. I read a post saying that for some reasons ATI AIW needed this thing (so far I do not understand what it is or what it does). After installing the wrapper, I was able to capture with Vdub.

Regarding the "mpg-1/2 capture is poor quality (using mmc). " I also have the same problem and still want to know what do I need in order to have good quality when capturing in Mpg with my ATI AIW.

Anyone can give us an advise!!!!!

THX

8)
Rey

[Nelson37]

OK, I got SOME answers for you.

1. The VFW to WDM wrapper is needed because MS changed the way windows deals with video, the wrapper will enable programs other than MMC, such as Vdub, to use the ATI card.

2. MMC cap quality varies dramatically with version, I was not happy with it until 7.5 Yes, it says for Radeon but it works with the AIW 128 Pro and others. Also, CPU speed very important, did not get good results until I went to 1200 CPU.

3. This seems to be heavily dependent on audio card, although all setups require remuxing as ATI MPG files are slightly non-standard. Real-time captures all seem to suffer from the "audio drift" as you described, most especially if you edit - I believe this has partially to do with VBR encoding, aggravated by ATI's non-standard MPG. If you cap and then re-encode, it can be fixed, but this is time-consuming and kinda defeats the purpose.

4. Most video @ x480 is interlaced. Looks bad on PC, but OK on TV - TV is supposed to be interlaced. De-interlace or IVTC possible solutions.

5. Haven't nailed this down, but many programs/editors either introduce an audio gap or ignore an existing one. Annoying, but simple to fix as you have discovered.

I periodically experiment with Real-time SVCD as I upgrade hardware, OS, and MMC, getting gradual improvement. Recently got major improvement, only thing I changed was attempted install of 7.7, would not record so I re-installed 7.6. SVCD capture now much better, 3:2 pulldown even seems to work, damn near unbelievable size efficiency, if I could edit and fix the audio drift, I'd do everthing real-time.

[ranma_st]

Hi:

Ok! Nelson37 I am not who originaly posted this matter. However, For what I can understand you are saying that I can intall MMC 7.5 for my ATI AIW 128 Pro. I didn't know that.

If that's true, there is anything else I have to install (drivers....) to change my MMC 7.1 to 7.5. How do I change it? I have read that you sholud follow special and precise steps to do that.

Here are my PC specs:

P4 1.6 GHz
256 RAM
1 HDD 40 Gigabytes, 7200 (in process to buy a second one)
W2K
ATI All In Wonder 128 Pro 32MB
DVD-Rom
CDRW

Thanks for your help in this matter.

THX

8)
Rey

[Nelson37]

Sometimes, you must completely uninstall the old version, then install the new one, sometimes changing ini file switches. At other times, you just install the new one right over the old and it works. The parameters which determine this variation are unknown to me.

Make sure you have both versions ready to install, in case you need to go back.

As I recall, 7.5 went right on over 7.1. Good Luck and be patient.

[ranma_st]

Hi:

Sorry! Any idea on where I can find MMC 7.5?
Thanks

THX

8)
Rey

[patrickm]

just go right to MMC 7.7.0.1, it does work now (fixed the 7.7 bugs, and yes it works on 128/128 pro)
uninstall all the ATI stuff and delete registry references and files relating to "cinemaster", "raviscent" (spelling?) and the "dscinemaudio*.*" files. these are the causes of most ATI sync problems, the MPEG-2 decoder. install windvd or maybe even the demo to get a workable MPEG-2 playback codec. In fact, you can install ATI DVD, then delete the cinemaster codec, and use the windvd codec seamlessly with the ATI dvd player.

get recent display drivers for your card from support.ati.com. ALSO GET THE XP/2000/Me CAPTURE DRIVERS off that website too (use the radeon AIW version for the 128 pro, it's all the same rage theater chip).

install the capture drivers, then the video drivers (people prefer that order, i've not noticed it mattering much)
reboot.
install dvd 7.6.
isntall MMC 7.7.0.1
delete the cinemaster codec.
if you're using any NTFS drives, change the ATI temp file capture settings to uncheck "always capture to temp drive", or you may not be able to capture due to an error in how ATI sets NTFS security permissions.

i've been doing realtime SVCD with a 128 Pro and a 900 athlon (aureal sq2500 vortex2 sound card) to a 5400 RPM ATA100 drive for 2 years and hardly drop a frame, using MMC 7.1, 7.5, 7.6, or 7.7.0.1. set your motion estimation to 97 (if you go higher, other tasks can cause a frame drop with even 2% cpu usage). also, capturing in CBR is better for audio sync than VBR. not all codecs are good at searching through VBR files to maintain sync. i don't think the default TMPG codec does well at this when you cut/edit/mux.

also search the forums for other posts i've made on the subject if you have any trouble installing since i've written this all before a number of times in better detail

[Scoobydeux]

Patrickm.

I have had major problems getting any ATI MMC 7.7.0.1 install technique to work.

I installed:
Directx 8.1b
Video Capture for Direct X
-Reboot
WFM Wrappers from ATI
Capture WDM 6-13-10-6125 From ATI
Video Driver W2K_R128_5_13_01_3279 for the AIW 128
-Reboot
MMC 7.7.0.1
DVD 7.6

No workie. Everything works except the TV player, which gives me the "ATIMMC has generated errors in Windows. (win 2k).

I have tried every possible permutation (doing a FULL sanitization prior, every time).

I do notice that when I install 7.7.0.1, the first setup screen says that version, but then proceeds to say "setting up 7.7.0.0". This is the file I downloaded directly from ATI.

Any ideas? I'm on day 3 of straight uninstalling/reinstalling.

Any help would be appreciated.....

And yes, I have done searches on this and many other forums (rage / doom9, etc) for ways to fix this...

Scoobydeux

[tom28]

You should install DVD player first then MMC, else your TV Player will have problem capturing. ATI Website stated DVD Player to install first on its release note. I believe because you have to input your Product ID on the DVD Player such that they know it is legal and thus you can install MMC. Reverse won't work.

[Scoobydeux]

Thanks. Tried that too. Two different posts said to try it different ways, so I did.

It is not a problem capturing, it simply doesn't even let me open TV!?!!?!? Errors out right after clicking to open it! I am back with a successful 7.6 working version until I can figure this out. I would really love to use 7.7.0.1 for the 48kHz audio sampling though....

Just out of interest, has ANYONE used 7.7.0.1 on an AIW 128 (AGP / non-pro)??

[Nelson37]

Scooby, just to let you know your not alone. 7.7 is the first version I have been unable to get to work. I get the same as you, everything else works, but TV "encounters a problem and has to shut down". I am running XP pro, and have tried 6 or 7 variations on the install process with no success.

[ranma_st]

Hi:

Nelson37 and patrickm thanks for your replies.

Can you help me a little more?

Nelson37 when you upgrade from MMC 7.1 to 7.5 Did you change any driver from the original installation of your AIW 128 pro? or did you install MMC 7.5 with yuor orignial drivers?

The last time I tried to install the new video drivers from ATI's page for the 128 pro (version w2kr128513013279) and reinstalled the MMC 7.1 I wasn't able to use the DVD or see any MPG2 files. So, I have to re-install the original drivers to use my original MMC 7.1 again.

My concern is that if I install the MMC 7.5, it is probable that I have to install the new video driver. This new video driver gave me problems and I don't want to use it again. So is it possible use MMC 7.5 with the original video drivers that came with the card?

Do you believe that if I upgrade the drivers and install MMC 7.5 I won't have any problems with DVD or MPG2's. That's what I am trying to avoid.

What about the capture drivers, should I keep the ones that came with the card and use them with MMC 7.5?

I know there are so many questions here. Please be patient with me. I spent 3 days in the "new drivers - MMC 7.1" installation stuff. So I need help from the wisest people here.

Thanks a lot

8)
Rey

[patrickm]

in win2k, for aiw 128 pro, either driver, (ends in .192 or .3279) will work fine with any MMC 7.0 or higher. they have nothing to do with MPEG-2 files. they're just display drivers. the MPEG-2 codec for playback is in the DVD app. it's codec is what causes most sync problems, so i recommend using the WinDVD codec instead (either a real version or demo should work too). you can even use that codec with the ATI DVD player if you uninstall/delete/remove files and registry entries related to cinemaster, dscinem*, or raviscent.

also note that MMC 7.5/7.6 has some problems where TV won't install if you don't have the microsoft WMV codecs installed BEFORE installing MMC.

DO NOT use the upgrade for 7.6->7.7. remove what you've got, and install 7.7.0.1 from scratch.

you must install the DVD 7.6 before MMC 7.7.0.1. but like i mentioned in the other posts, there's still problems with ATI's playback, so i don't even use the DVD player anymore. if you install wrong, don't have your drivers sorted out, or install DVD later, it will not install the TV functions (DVD after actually just breaks them).

[patrickm]

also, if you use any older drivers, like 192, they have capture parts of the driver included. you DONT need the capture drivers for 7.1 if you use driver 192. regardless, install the capture drivers AFTER the video drivers if you want to use 192 and MMC 7.6+

[Scoobydeux]

You are the heat for being so patient and advising people on this card. I have done all the things you have suggested, I have tried without the DVD, I have tried using 7.7.0.1 on its own, I have done all the different possible permutations of installing / rebooting / not rebooting between each install. In every case, my error is the same, "ATIMMC.exe has caused an error in Windows and will terminate".

All versions up to 7.6 work fine.

I do not have a 128 pro, only a 128. Think that makes any difference?

My next thing is going to be to remove the AIW driver completely, install a VGA driver in its place, then install all the other drivers, and MMC, then install the AIW driver over that. I read in rage3d forums that might help.

BTW, when you install the AIW driver, there are the 4 "unknown items" that come up in the device manager, what source do those items find their drivers from? I think they eventually take the WDM theater drivers and such. Would installing the basic RAGE128 driver instead of the AIW128 driver help me at all, or just mess things up?

[ranma_st]

Hi:

patrickm:

Thanks for your help. Let me have some pints regarding this matter.

also note that MMC 7.5/7.6 has some problems where TV won't install if you don't have the microsoft WMV codecs installed BEFORE installing MMC.

What WMV codecs? Where can I find them?

I want to intsall MMC 7.5 with the 192 driver. So, for what you said, I don't need to install any new video or capture driver to use MMC 7.5 with my actual drivers.

I know this last one is going too far! However, Can you give me a hint or advice on how to

uninstall/delete/remove files and registry entries related to cinemaster, dscinem*, or raviscent.

I do have Power DVD, can I use this codec with ATI DVD player?

Thank you

8)
Rey

[kayfam]

ranma_st
You can get the WMV codecs here:
http://mirror2.ati.com/drivers/wmfdist.exe