Dazzle DVC II vs all-in-one cards

[iparout]

Hi there,

Generally, I just wanted to know if the capture cards are better in capturing video than the all-in-one (vga card, TV-tuner, capture card) video cards.

1) To be more specific, I want to compare Dazzle DVC II with ATI AIW Radeon and ASUS AGP V7700, as far as capturing is concerned.

2) Does Dazzle DVC II support real-time MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 encoding and is the output good ? I don't want to spend hours in re-encoding the captured video to get acceptable quality (that's the method the quide in this site recommends).

3) I have read that ATI AIW Radeon has many problems with copy protection (stops capturing after 20 sec) and that the output requires re-encoding to achieve an acceptable quality. Is that true ?

4) Will I have problems with the 2 GB limit with those cards ?

I have a PIII 450 o/c at 506 MHz, 160 MB RAM, SB Live, Viper V770, 20 GB SCSI hard disk, 10 GB EIDE (5 year old) hard disk running on Win ME (I may upgrade to Win2000 or XP in the near future)

THE REASON I WANT THE CAPTURE CARD IS TO RECORD FROM VCR TO VCD AND LATER ON TO DVD.

Thx in advance for your precious help

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: iparout on 2001-08-16 04:40:25 ]</font>

[aldus4]

I'll go stage by stage:

1.) If you check the capture card list you can make your own comparisons regarding the hardware details.

2.) The Dazzle DVC II supports real time encoding mpeg1 and mpeg2. The captured video and audio feeds are of high quality (in XSVCD mode - @ 4.000kb/s) captured from cable there is barely a difference to the original. However S-Video has better quality than composite.

3.) Can't say as I have never tried this make of card.

4.) With the DVC II there is no 2GB limit.

Additional Information:
Though many here snub the DVC II (you know who you are!) I can only recommend it. Software encoding has become a thing of the past. Even my DVD "backups" I hardware encode using a S-Video cable directly from the DVD Player. 90min movie take 90mins to capture/convert! Endless hours of software encoding are over. The software included (Moviestar) is not very professional - but it can do quite a bit if you let it.
There is a freeware program around called TWNH which you can use as VCR Timer - you say how long you want to capture, how many parts and which size/duration these parts should have (for burning CD-R's ideal) etc. My PC is now a VCR.

Summary:
Though fairly expensive the good quality of the clips and the hassle free capturing/encoding make this for me the best buy of this year. If you get the drivers to work (even I had problems) and it's compatible with your system (Win98SE and WinME it works fine) you don't need a high powered chip (I'm using a Celeron 600Mhz) to get great results.

[SHS]

aldus4 do you any thing about the so called TV view for DVC2 or what it called? what ULR to it?.

Why do say this aldus4 been MPEG has it limit under OS like Win9x OS.
4.) With the DVC II there is no 2GB limit

[aldus4]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-13 18:20:38, SHS wrote:
aldus4 do you any thing about the so called TV view for DVC2 or what it called? what ULR to it?.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
I have never heard of such software. What is is meant to do?

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
Why do say this aldus4 been MPEG has it limit under OS like Win9x OS.
4.) With the DVC II there is no 2GB limit
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I am using Windows ME and have made several over 2 hour recordings in one giant file some being 2.458GB. As I understood the 2GB limit it only applies to avi files. I did read once the limit for any (non AVI) file type being produced would be 4GB, but I haven't tried it out yet.

[SHS]

Oh somebody sometime ago said there was free app that allow it to run Full Screen without using MovieStar you know make owrk more like TV applications dose?.

[aldus4]

@SHS

Sorry have never encountered it anywhere. Mind you I think there would be little demand as you can use Moviestar. You click once on enlarge and it makes it almost fullscreen with a border, then you press enlarge again and the whole screen is filled out like a TV without borders.

[SHS]

Ok just wondering

[iparout]

well, thanks for the help all of you. There's still my first question unanswered : Is the Dazzle better at capturing than ATI AIW and ASUS V7700 ? I'm not referring to the hardware capabilities -those I've read them on the list-, I just want to know if the quality of the capturing with AIW and V7700 is as good as with DVC II -if the capturing specs are the same of course, e.g. same bitrate e.t.c- Is the real-time MPEG1 and MPEG2 capturing with V7700 and AIW good enough, or does it need re-encoding with TMPEG to achieve acceptable quality ?

If the capturing quality of AIW is good, then I should prefer it over Dazzle cause the price is almost the same and AIW offers a TV Tuner, VGA card e.t.c (I already have a Viper V770 but I'm thinking of selling it...)

Any thoughts ?

[lxu2001]

aldus4.

I have a Dazzle DVC II card. I have tried several times to record TV program using the card in real time, but failed each time. The way I hooked the system up was the following:

TV cable -> VCR -> DVC II box.

The recorded video was distorted and with some color stripes it in. Could you please tell me how he physically set your system up for TV recording? I appreciate your help.

[aldus4]

@lxu2001

That's exactly how mine is set up. What may be the case of your distortion is if you are recording of a cable channel that has a sort of copy protection enabled. My cable provider will not let me video or capture any pay-per-view events, so maybe this is why yours will not work. If this is not the case are you using Composite, Scart or S-Video leads? Another thing, is you VCR set to "AV" for the Cable channel?

[Greg12]

hook directly into ur card.


i have cable hooked into my computer n i can watch neythin except premiun channels.

[The_Madz]

I too, use the DVC II, and after using several other cards in the past (ati all-in-wonder, pinnacle dc10plus), I can say that this is hands down the best capture device that I've used. I hook the dazzle up to either my dvd player, or my replay tv to do recordings...

[iparout]

How can someone record straight from the TV using the Dazzle DVC II ? Can you programme the card to record at a specific time when you are away ? I know you can do all these with ATI AIW Radeon and thus I'm in a great dillema (however it is spelled ).

[lxu2001]

aldus4

Thanks for your help. I tried again last night. I was only trying to see if I could record any regular TV show I subscribed, not any pay-per-view events at all. The video came in with some kind color band across the preview window of Moviestar. The height of the color bank was about 1/4 of window. Pictures inside the colored band got distourted. The band also kept moving up. I tried many channels and got the same result. When I tried to feed DVC II with video tape played from the VCR, it worked perfectly when the cable cord was not hooked to the VCR antena input. However, when I hooked the cable cord to VCR, I got the same problem even for video tape.

Could you please tell me exactly how you connect cable,VCR and Dazzle together in great detail? I am really not good at all these. I just could figure out what I did wrong.

Below is exactly how I hooked things up.

cable => VCR antena in [===] VCR Video Composite Out => DVC II Composite in

I do not have a TV tuner on my computer so I suppose I can hook the cable directly into my card as Gre12 suggested, right.

Also, I am not sure I understand "Scart". Is that the name you call the cable? My VCR does not has an S-Video output so that I can not really go thru that route neither.
How do you set your VCR to "AV"? Sorry to bug you this much. I really like this thing starts to work. Thanks you so very much.

[SHS]

Sound like copy carp is on your cable.
Dosen't you cable box have composite out RCA Jack what S-Video?.
Scart is a 21 pin adapters.
Where do you live ?.

[aldus4]

@lxu2001

I presume you made sure by actually recording something on the channel you were trying to hook up to the DVC II, on yuor VCR first - and it worked. Then I doubt your Cable supplier has some sort of copy protection.

I will try to explain how my system is hooked up. As for what a SCART socket is, this website should explain all: http://www.distel.co.uk/data_scart.htm

DVD Player>>I>>>>>>>>>>I>>>>DVC II
..................I>>>VCR>>>>I>>>>TV
Cable Box>>>I>>>>>>>>>>I

"I" are separate junctions or splitters.
">>" AV stream
Here the description of above:

DVD player hooked up with SCART to VCR Input 1
Cable Box connected with SCART to VCR Imput 2
VCR connected via SCART SPLITTER to TV and DVC II
DVD player connected via S-Video to DVC II

I could have used composite connections meaning 2 for audio one for video instead of the SCART plugs/sockets.

Now more to your problems:
Hookup your system as if you were recording a cable channel on your VCR. Use your composite plugs/leads from your VCR to your DVC II. Whilst having everything satellite box, VCR, etc. running use the Setup wizard to reconfigure your system ( >>Start>>Programs>>Dazzle DVCII>>Dazzle Setup Wizard). See if that works now.

The AV channel on your VCR is usually a channel reserved for audio/video inputs (such as Camcorders, etc.) - you can usually get it by either pressing "AV" on your remote or by pressing "00". (of course other brands or countries might have a different way or these options not at all!)

As you are using a coaxial cable from your cable box to the VCR it may be that your signal is either too strong or too weak for the DVC II. That's why I recommend you try to reconfigure it - usually the software will try to get the best picture/sound as possible.

Another thing that may be the cause of your distortion is interference either through technical apparatace (got some mains leads crossing the composite leads?) or channel intereference. To eliminate this second possibility try changing the tuner channel. Usually on the cable box there is a little screw that when turning changed the output channel.

Tell me how it goes...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: aldus4 on 2001-08-15 08:28:16 ]</font>

[lxu2001]

@SHS,

I live in Greenville,SC. I don't need a cable box. I get cable TV by just hook the cable to my TV set. I don't know much about the "copy carp" you mentioned. I was only trying to record some basic TV shows like CNN, MSNBC. I can record them on my VCR without any problem. Is this "copy carp" there only for Dazzle DVC II?

[SHS]

The "copy carp" I'am talk about it know as macrovision or copyguard.

Tell me I get this rigth
Yer or NO
1: You can record from the VCR tuner off TV AIR channels.
2: You can record from the VCR composite out "RCA jack" with no CableTV hook up to the VCR.
3: You can't record from CableTV but I'am getting the CableTV chammel but I'am also rev a scolling bar.
4: You can't record from the VCR with the CableTV hook up becuase I'am also rev a scolling bar.

Can you try this record a show on the VCR tape then playback to the Dazzle DVC2 and record it what happing?.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SHS on 2001-08-15 14:38:14 ]</font>

[iparout]

lxu2001,
although this is not the reason why I originally started this thread, I'll try to be as helpful as I can. The lines appear across the picture because you have the antenna cable hooked to the video. I am absolutely 101% sure about that cause I had the same problem when I tried to watch a VHS tape with the antenna cable hooked on the VCR. To fix this you must use a SCART to connect the TV with the VCR. To be more specific :
--Connect the antenna cable to the TV
--Connect via SCART the TV to the VCR
--Connect the VCR to DVC II via composite.

This should work, as long as the TV and VCR have SCART inputs/outputs. Otherwise... I don't know

Hope I helped and please next time you want to discuss something irrelevant, plese post a new message and not just reply to an irrelevant thread. This thread was opened for another reason.. Thank you.

[SHS]

iparout he live in the USA there is no Scart here in the USA

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SHS on 2001-08-15 17:00:49 ]</font>

[lxu2001]

@iparout

Sorry for asking question deviated from your original thread. The reason I read this thread was because I started to think whether I should get the ATI AIW card for TV recording. I like my Dazzle DVC II for capturing home video from camcorder. I would love it more if I could record some TV programs as well. I was just not able to make it to do that.

Anyway, I think you are right about the problem. I think SHS is also right about there is no Scart in the USA. So, is there any other way to work this problem around? I really appreciate all the help from you guys.

@SHS
Answers to your questions:
1. I can record TV program to a video tape using my VCR.
2. Yes, Dazzle DVC II can capture a recorded video tape through VCR composite output when the TV cable is not hooked to my VCR.
3. Dazzle DVC II can capture a recorded video tape through VCR composite output ALSO when the TV cable is hooked to my VCR. However, the captured video will have the rev. scrolling bar.
4. Dazzle DVC II can capture TV program directly through VCR composite output when the TV cable is hooked to my VCR. The captued vidoe also has the rev. scrolling bar.

SHS, do you have a solution for people live in the USA?

Thanks again!

[House de Kris]

Actually, I believe lxu2001 gave us enough information to figure out his problem when he wrote,

"When I tried to feed DVC II with video tape played from the VCR, it worked perfectly when the cable cord was not hooked to the VCR antena input. However, when I hooked the cable cord to VCR, I got the same problem even for video tape."

I'll bet the color band you see moving up you screen repeats about every 8.33 seconds. If so, I believe this to be the notorious 'cable ground' problem that plauges so many setups that are connected to a cable TV provider. As it turns out, the ground provided on the coax coming into your home is committed to earth miles away from your home. Your home, and all the electronics inside, are referenced to earth where your power meter is. This difference in earth references is enough to cause a low level audible hum in the audio, and induce video distortions in some video equipment. The easiest solution is to find a "cable ground isolator" which are some times hard to find. You can build your own from parts from Radio Shack. You need two 75/300 ohm balums. Connect them together, back to back, at the 300 ohm taps. There you go!

If you really want to do it cheap and dirty, put ground lifters on all of the AC cords on all of your computer equipment. But this defeats the safety of ground, so I DO NOT RECOMMEND you do this. I deny every suggesting doing such a stunt. But it would tell you quite quickly if this is indeed your problem or not.

[SHS]

Yes could be a ground loop problem I have funny fell that the problem with in the VCR it self it maybe pass on macrovision or copyguard, Who make the VCR & what model is it lxu2001?, Try a diff VCR if you can.

You try this first cost lees then $10
Radio Shack part #'s 15-1230 and 15-1253.
Use 75 ohm cable from wall to 15-1253.
Then connect 300 ohm spade lugs on 15-1230 to screws on 15-1253.
Connect 75 ohm cable from 15-1253 to the VCR

This one way to get a round macrovision or copyguard.
Sima SCC* digital color corrector and copyguard eliminator
It better Sima SED-CM Copymaster

[lxu2001]

@SHS

I tried with three different VCRs, two Panasonic's and one Emerson, and got the same problem. I will go to Radio Shack this weekend to get those parts.

[SHS]

Ok hopelee we hear from you on weather not that ground loop work for you.

[iparout]

I was thinking of buying that card but I have second thoughts because I think this card is unable to record straight from, the TV, that's wjhy I'm thinking of buying ATI AIW Radeon.

1) Can someone record TV programmes using Dazzle DVC II ? If yes how ?

2) Which of the two cards do you suggest ? (I'm only interested in capturing not 3D acceleration e.t.c)

Thx in advance

P.S : My PC specs appear on the first post of this thread.
P.S 2: Where can I find the Dazzle DVC II here in Greece ? I've contacted Dazzle and asked them for a retailer in Greece but they haven't replied yet.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: iparout on 2001-08-16 04:41:53 ]</font>

[mazinz]

i have the older dvc1(0ne mentioned in article) and i have made direct recordings from my tv into the dazzle/pc and i have never had a problem. I know some versions of the movie star software were very glithy and updated/patches are avaialbe on the dazzle site, although im not sure if this will help out the current problem.
Also i had the ATI all in wonder Radeon card and this allowed capturing as well. If i had to compare this with the dazzle, the dazzle offered more options then the ATI card did for capturing. Again though, im not sure if the ati card you mentioned offers alot more then the Radeon card. thanks

[SHS]

iparout you have only two option without a tuner or with a tuner.
Dazzle or Hauppauge WinTV-PVR.
1) Yes the Dazzle DVC II can record TV programmes but you need VCR to act as a TV tuner.

ATI all in wonder radeon card is base off software it has no real hardware for MPEG1/2 and it has build in macrovision.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SHS on 2001-08-16 08:10:02 ]</font>

[chjan]

I have both, DVC II and ATI TV wonder.
For recording, I always use DVC II to record SVCD. The quality is good @ 2500 video and 160 audio. I got the DirecTV and connect the signal with S-video cable. Now I have a collection of Tom&Jerry (17 Discs)recorded by DVC II. I can said I love DVC II. The post processes I need to do are cutting and dex/mux. I use M2-edit 3.0 for cutting and TMPEG for dex/mux to make it compliant for SVCD and accepted by NERO.

I use ATI TV wonder just for watching TV. I've tried to use it for recording but I give up finally. After capture, I need to encode it to be MPEG, but the most important is I can not capture at 480x480 without dropping frame (use PICVIDEO @ 18 quality). There are too much process to get SVCD and you need the big harddrive to store you AVIs before encode them.

So, for me. DVC II is for recording and ATI TV wonder just for watching. That's it.

chjan@hotmail.com

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chjan on 2001-08-16 07:36:34 ]</font>

[lxu2001]

Thanks for all te help I got from here. Using the method suggested by "House de Kris" and SHS, my DVC II can record TV programs directly now. The video is not perfect clean. It still has some slight 'cable ground' effects. It is much much better than it was before. Thanks again!