Is there anything that will cut an MPEG without SCREWING it

[kinneera]

I've tried VCDCutter...causes nasty packet synchronization problems for the first 10-30 sec;
I've tried MyFlix...totally rewrites the MPEG header making it incompatible with VCDImager/Vcdxbuild;
M1/M2 edit are based on the same libraries as MyFlix;
Womble won't let me work with enough video to draw any conclusions either way;
TMPGEnc completely desynchronizes the audio from the video;

ALL I WANT TO DO IS SPLIT A VIDEOCD MPEG1 STREAM AT 2300000 CONSTANT BITRATE CREATED BY ATI MMC 7.1 INTO CHAPTERS!! IS THAT REALLY SO HARD...CAN ANYTHING DO IT CORRECTLY?!?!?!?!?!? PLEASE HELP!

[Anonymous65]

It still seems that mpeg is a magic "standard" where everybody does it differently. There should be only one way to get the streams correct, but that is not the case out there. For that reason (cannot edit frame accurate and that the editor messes up the streams) I now capture in AVI and then convert to mpeg as the final step. Messing with encoded mpeg streams is very tricky!

SK

[kinneera]

As far as I can tell, ATI's AVI capture settings are basically useless. It tells me it can only record 5 min of AVI in 6GB of disk space. Not exactly believable...or useful. The very data rate implied by that calculation would be more than enough to choke my ATA100 7200 RPM drive.

What takes the cake is that I could swear VCDCutter worked once...but only that once and I can't reproduce it...AAARRRGH.

[RyP]

I do cutting and merging a lot myself, and personally I like TMPGEnc. Use the MPEG Tools under the file menu and then use the last tab, I believe it's labelled cut/merge. Post again here if you need help using that and I'll explain it =P

[Freddie100]

Did you try BBmpeg? I first demux with TMPeg and then use BBmpeg. Works for me. TMPeg does mess the sound up sometimes.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Freddie100 on 2001-08-12 17:33:33 ]</font>

[kinneera]

RyP - I know HOW to use the TMPGEnc cut/merge options, the problem is that it gets the audio badly out of synch.

I did some experimenting with bbMPeg, with not great results. It doesn't seem to be real stringent about actually conforming to the requested maximum bitrate set by the user. And I think it produced MPEG's that VCDImager had to do autopadding on. I didn't try de-muxing the source file in TMPEGEnc first though...I'll give it a shot

If it offers any insight, the mpeg clips produced by VCDCutter spit out "aps packet timing" errors when I attempt to run them through Vcdxbuild...I have no idea what that means

[kinneera]

Looked up some info about the source MPEG in virtualdub, turns out ATI MMC 7.1 is generating an MPEG whose audio is slightly longer than the video (to make them match, Virtualdub says the framerate should be changed from 29.970 to 29.974). Interestingly, the video is perfectly in sync all they way through, straight from capture, and is 98 min. long.

Whose really screwing up here? ATI? VCDImager is perfectly happy with the MPEG stream, though, which implies to me that they're doing it right.

Could it have anything to do with the fact that the source audio is mono? So much confusion...

[thebach]

for mpeg1 definitly use TMPGEnc. just go under file to mpeg tools, the rest you'll figure out its easy

[kinneera]

I appreciate the suggestion, but again...TMPGEnc (12 & 12i) causes a bad audio sync problem...

[wildcatfan]

Try this....cut it with TMPGenc (I know this will throw it out of sync, maybe because when it remuxes it back into the new stream.) Then Demux the new file. Then use bbmpeg to remux the vid and audio back again and see if that fixes the sync problems. Good luck.

Michael

[kinneera]

I may be able to skip the TMPGEnc step and just use bbMPEG by setting beginning and end frames to encode and letting it do both the de-mux and re-mux. That is what I just tried, in fact, but I got these errors when I tested it through vcdxbuild:

++ WARN: mpeg scan: pack header code (0x000001ba) expected, but 0x000001b9 found (buflen = 4)
++ WARN: bad packet at packet #135156 (stream byte offset 314102544) -- remaining 4 bytes of stream will be ignored

Any suggestions as to how bbMPEG should be configured to encode a compliant XVCD stream at 2.3 Mbps CBR? I know such a stream is possible (in a sense) because vcdxbuild is perfectly happy with the unmodified ATI capture file.

Even if I use bbMPEGs default VideoCD settings (which automatically restrict the bitrate), I still get the pack header code error. Is that really important?

[hvr]

you can safely ignore it, it's just about the program_end_marker not being in the last 4 bytes of a 2324byte pack, but at the beginning, where a pack_header is mandatory...

your mpeg decoder will figure out anyway, that the stream has ended...

[zzyzzx]

Convert it to a AVI then edit then convert back.

[kcjohnclark]

Dudes, go grab yourselfs a copy of IFilmEdit. I had the same prob b4 with all these other cut/join progs... But this beauty works great. Audio stays in synce and everything.. Just make sure that you select the VideoCD option under Prefernces>VideoCD Mode. There are tutorials on the net about how to do it, but I think its pretty straitgh forward. Alsol there is the help menu. If you still cant get it, leave a msg and ill walk ya thru it

Hope this helps!!

[Radioman]

kinneera

I use ATI MMC6.3 and an old ATI AIW 16mB card which I use for mpeg1 captures, mostly in xvcd bitrates around 2000kbps.

I cut and remux these mpeg1 files with TMPGEnc all the time without any sync problem. Are you sure you select the vcd (or nonstandard vcd) in TMPGENC ?

Are they out of sync both on the computer and your standalone player or just on your standalone ?

When it comes to Mpeg2 it's another audio/video synch-story. I never got that to work with TMPGEnc. bbMPEG remuxing is the way to go in that case.

Cheers // Radioman

[SiddharthM]

TRY USING MPEGTOOL....ITS REALLY COOL AND FAST!!!!!

[kinneera]

I get the impression that ATI MMC 7.1 does something slightly different with mpeg1 captures that are tagged as videoCD (I use the ATI registry tool posted on this site to set that flag with XVCD bitrates). That seems to be the source of the problem. And the audio sync problem is present on the computer as well as the standalone player.

Regardless, I discovered that the huffyuv codec makes it possible for me to capture 1 hr + on the mere 12 GB I currently have available on my hard drive, so I threw up my hands in disgust with MPEG and started capturing AVI in VirtualDub. I cut it there, and send it to TMPGEnc through the frameserver, and everything works great. It's even producing substantially smaller files, since TMPGEnc can do a lot better job with the VBR when the input is AVI.

Thanks for all the help people!

[fugoff]

I have had the same problem for a long ass time. ATI's MMC is the problem. Every MPG I made went out of sync with any tool I tried to cut it with. I also now use Vdub for capture then convert and cut it with Tmpg. No problems whatsoever with a/v sync. Screw you ATI!!!!

[RaleighNC]

I've been having this problem for so long I've given up using tmpgenc with aiw captures.

The main problem in my situation is frame drops, if you have frame drops, tmpgenc will not cut it correctly. I believe your solution if you want to keep using tmpgenc is the render the whole clip to mpeg-1/2, so that it is "tmpgenc compatible", then cut/merge. But there is no guarantee.

Then, I started using mgi videowave4, it works pretty good and it is insync (not the gurlygroup j/k), but the editing is horrible in trying to stop at the right frame. But it works.

Then search newsgroups, i found premiere and lsx. You can guess which one i'm using now.

[MunDMC]

Though i'm sad that other people are also having the same MMC 7.1 & TMPenc problem, it's nice to know i wasn't gouing crazy.
About 2 of every 3 episodes of Simpsons i capture, there is a 4 second period (actually 4.5 sec) where the video freezes on one frame and the audio continues. After this period, the video skips ahead to catch up with the video.

I can drop the episodes into Nero and watch them on a DVD player with no problem, but if i try to EDIT anything (like take out commercials) the 4 seconds of still video gets completely dropped, leaving the rest of the vcd mpeg-1 out of synch.

The only way i've corrected this is by demuxing, editing out 4.5 second of audio at the same place video is dropped, and remuxing. THEN i can edit till my heart's content without out-of synch problems.

This is a collossal pain in the but, as it takes about 20 minutes an episode. Anybody who knows a SIMPLER fix to this can have my first-born child

-Dan

[GRANPINO]

put me in the list.. I am also having problems when cutting with TMPEG. I even tried version 12a. I think this problem started when I switched to WIN98 because I had no problems with WIN95. I went back to ATI MM6.3 and the old video drivers and no luck. I am about to reformat my HD. I wasted numerous hours *&@^#$*&@$ around with ATI drivers. ATI drivers suck.

[RFontenot]

I'll second what RaleighNC said about frame drops screwing up editing with TMPGEnc. ATI uses a software MPEG encoder which really taxes any system, even a P4. Sometimes, just switching windows during a capture can cause a frame to drop.

Unfortunately, it's been my experience that even a single dropped frame will cause the audio to be out of sync if you try to edit the capture with TMPGEnc.

RF

[daigo]

I'm having problems with TMPGEnc 12i.
When i cut a mpeg file the mpeg i get have the first and the last frame repeated 3 times. that's too bad cause when I play the vcd (I burn with nero) the image stills between two chapters.
any suggestion please?

[mijman]

I used to use TMPGenc for cutting, but it wasn't exact enough and afterwards I'd always have to re-encode it for Nero to like it, so I only use the cut/join function for joining. Have you tried re-encoding it using the "Source Range" section of the advanced settings? I always use it for cutting. Sure, it takes longer...a lot longer...but the final product is great.

[lordfoul]

Thanks kcjohnclark

Ifilm worked great .. Only takes a few Minutes to learn and no more sync problems

SM

[next]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-13 13:17:35, fugoff wrote:
I have had the same problem for a long ass time. ATI's MMC is the problem. Every MPG I made went out of sync with any tool I tried to cut it with. I also now use Vdub for capture then convert and cut it with Tmpg. No problems whatsoever with a/v sync. Screw you ATI!!!!
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I use MMC 7.1 to capture directly to mpeg2. I too had A/V sync problems when I did edit/cuts but have figured out a workaround using M2-edit and Mpeg2vcr. I now can cut/edit both CBR and VBR mpeg2 files with no A/V sync problems. Something I didn't think was possible with may hardware setup (kt133 via chipset). If anybody is having A/V sync problems cutting mpeg2 files from AIW captures let me know and I'll post what I do.

[iant]

Just a bit of a warning. IFilm-Edit does look okay but as you go to a longer final mpg, you will notice a small drift of synch. It's not as bad as most but it is still there.

Personally, I found the only way out of this problem was to cut the captured AVIs and then frameserve the length of film I want to TMPEG producing one mpeg that doesn't need editing. If someone can find a tool that does mpg cutting properly, accurately and with aboslutely no synch issues, I'd bet most people here would probably even pay for it.

[hyperwolf]

I used to have this problem too ,i tried tmpgenc , vcdcutter , mgi videowave 4 , adobe premiere 6, and they all had the same @#* problem with sync , tmpgenc was even giving me some extra 'not wanted frames'. The only one that actualy worked precisely without any bug for me was MyFlix.
I don't know if it screws up the header but i burn them without any question in nero 5.5.2.4 and it plays wonders in my standalone. Maybe you could try to find something else to create your chapters if all the edit proggies are giving you headaches.(and i do believe it does ,i had my share...)

[hankys]

Are there any good programs out there that edit AVI or DivX files? I usually have to convert from AVI to MPEG before i can edit the !@#$ movie.

Thanks!

[RaleighNC]

ATI guys,

With all the software bought and attained. The main problem of my captures with aiw is dropped frames. The source file is in-sync, but cutting (with videowave, premiere, vegasvideo, ulead, etc.) and muxing the clips become out-of-sync. And after 4months of playing around, the free stuff is the best.

My current editing setup: flask beta3/xmpeg4 -> video server -> cce 2.5. Cooledit(not free) to edit the wav files. tmpgenc/lame for wav 2 mp2. bbmpeg to mux mpv and mp2.

I'm producing and burning(nero) svcd file that are in-sync with 480x480 sources files with 2% to 6% frame drops. My ME is set to 21 because I only have a p2-550.

Thought I'ld share this info because I had a hell-of-a-time reading so many aiw posts and didn't find answer to my problem(cutting/out-of-sync).

If you choose to use the free stuff, SEND them some money.