My Process (Long w/Info!)

[Xtasy2002]

Hello everyone! OK up until 1 week ago I have never before been involved with video capture, tv watching, etc. on a PC. So yes I'm a n00b. :) I have owned & operated PC's for 10 years though so I definately know what I am doing in that respect. Just the video capture that is new to me. :evil:

I finally caved in and decided to go for a PC that controls my TV entirely & a home entertainment type of setup. The TV is basically the main viewing platform for the PC with a monitor used every now and then. What I am going to do is list my hardware, what I am trying to achieve, & the steps I have taken so far to get there. I would really appreciate any help or insight you guys can give me with this system! I've worked on just the video part now for the past 3 days and I feel like I am blind walking through a maze.


HARDWARE
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Visiontek Xtasy Everything 5564
Aureal Vortex 2 PCI Sound
AMD 1700+ CPU
Kingston 512MB PC2100 DDR SDRam
Gigabyte GA-7VRX MB
Maxtor 120GB 7200 RPM UDMA HD
Pioneer DVR-A04 DVD Burner
+ Other misc. system components not related to capture.
UDMA Enabled, Windows Media Encoder + Extra codecs installed, etc.


OBJECTIVE
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There are sevaral objectives that I am trying to achieve with this system. Here's the reasons why I bought it:

* Capture my own VHS movie collection to SVCD & Transfer to DVD
* Record various scheduled TV programs from Cable & Watch/Burn
* Watch DVD Movies through the Comp to the TV.
* Watch TV through the comp to the TV.
* Play games & stuff on the Comp through the TV screen.


PROCESS
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* The box came with WMD 1.08, Nvidia Drivers 14.72 & WinDVR 1.5 The PC is Windows 98 SE with all bug fixes, DX 8.1 & a clean OS. The OS is configured properly. The video capture drive is formatted Fat32.

* On install I set up Video Mirroring w/clone mode for Nview. Using WinDVR I could now watch TV input on the PC & it would come up full screen on the TV set. I could also watch VHS tapes, etc..

* Trying to click on record in WinDVR doesn't work. It says recording but it doesn't record anything & it saves 0 byte files. The same for WinDVR 2.0 Trialware that I downloaded & tried. I did try every possible setting of resolution, format to record in and the program simply doesn't work.

* Update GFX drivers to 30.82 & WDM to 1.16 from Visiontek site. Also tried WDM 1.08 & Several Nvidia driver sets from 30.82 down to 23.11. The problem with all of the driver sets above 21.81 is when I go to play video through any WDM program (WinDVR, Virtual Dub, AVI_IO, etc.) it will show up on the Monitor. But video mirroring is broken & does NOT full screen mirror the video out to the TV set on the 2nd display.

* Thus I am stuck with drivers 21.81 and WDM 1.08. Any higher drivers & for some reason video mirroring no longer works. It works just fine with 21.81 down to 14.??. Anyone know why this is? PS: When i play an AVI file with 30.82 & Video Mirroring in Media Player the mirroring works fine & the video is shown full screen on the TV. But when using any type of captured video through the WDM, it doesn't mirror nor do I see any video at all on the TV where it should normally be inside of the TV/Capture screen.

* PS: Using the 'preview' mode in several applications above does show the mirrored video to TV but it's terrible quality. Going back into overlay mode & the video once again disappears from the TV set. So again 21.81 is the highest drivers version I can use for Video Mirroring to work with my WDM.

* TV-Tool did not work on this display to remove the black border. It did in full screen, but then I can't see my desktop. Plus I have to disable Twin View just to use it. I want to keep Twin View enabled & find a utility to get rid of the black border around the TV-out. Is there anything like that?

* No matter what set of drivers/WDM I tried to use WinDVR never records anything. It just writes 0 byte files. So I deleted it.

* PowerVCR - Installed & it works. I can record & I can watch video. But it's so jerky & laggy that it's not even worth it. Even watching TV without recording or doing anything else the program puts up jerky video to the TV screen. Recording it drops more than 1/2 the frames. Had to remove that too. Re-installed to try it again later & the same results.

* ^ Now the best 2 TV recording programs to record TV on a schedule are gone/broken...

* Ran Virtual Dub. It worked to record TV but I can't use it.. Because it requires that I disable Twin View before using the application. It was telling me on launch that it can't access the device while it's in use, or something like that. So I set Twinview from Clone to None & finally it launched?? Is this supposed to not run when using TwinView display? Anyways Virtual Dub recorded & worked good but I can't use this if it will not support clone Twin View mode.

* AVI_IO.. OK this program worked good. I can watch TV and record it at the same time with NO dropped frames. I can keep Twinview & clone mode enabled while doing it. I am using it with my display stuck on WDM 1.08 and Drivers 21.81 (See Above). However I was able to capture a full VCR with this program, convert to SVCD & DVD play.

So here's my current setup & how I am doing stuff:

Watch TV - WinDVR for watching Cable TV, VCR through the PC to the TV. I use the remote control that came with the video card.

Record TV - AVI/IO for Capture, TMPGEnc for SVCD Encode, VCDEasy For Burn (To CD-R for testing. Won't burn DVD-R until I know what I am doing).

Here's the steps that I use to capture video to SVCD & burn it
------------------------------------------------------------------------
01) Launch AVI/IO.

02) File/Capture Settings 29.97 FPS, Custom Frame Size 480x480, Record
Audio Yes, Maximum File Size 3900.

03) Video Settings/Format 640x480

04) Video Settings/Source: Set to Video Tuner for straight cable TV record. Use TV Tuner to change the channel being recorded. Set to S-Video for VHS Record.

05) Video Settings/Compression set it at full frames uncompressed.

06) Video Settings/Audio set to CD Quality.

07) Start the capture.

08) Done then hit Stop & close AVI_IO.

09) Launch TMPGEnc.

10) In the Wizard select Super Video CD, NTSC.

11) Next step select the video file created from AVI/IO.

12) Leave expert settings for video source as they are. Click to next step.

13) Wizard, step 4. Here I can preview what size the final video will be!
If I really need to make the size of the movie smaller, start with the
bitrate & lower it. Do not go below 1600 kbits/sec.

15) Step5 of Wizard, set the output file to NameOfMovie.mpg

16) Encode it! When all done close up TMPGEnc.

Burn to CD-R
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1) Launch VCDEasy.

2) In settings tab on left English, Insert Comments, No Log, Enable CDRDAO Integration, CD Image Type Bin/Cue.

3) Settings Tab/SVCD - No CD-i Application, Uncheck Use MPEGAV, No Update Scan Data, Show Update Scans yes. Segment Folder Always = yes. Preferred TV = NTSC!

4) Settings Tab/CDRDAO Tab - Select Writer, Speed 2x, Force driver, No overburn, no force execution, Eject Yes. Switch to left SVCD Tab on left.

4) Main Tab select SVCD 1.0, Select CD Writer, Volume Label = Movies??? Where ??? Is number, Select Simulate (Not Burn), In Output file enter temp directory

5) In the bottom, add files. Put all the MPG files in there created in above steps.

6) Now in the options tab PBC NO, Time to wait 0, Album Name = Movie Name & 1 , 1 , 0

7) Now in chapters tab: Leave it blank.

8) In ISO Files tab: Leave it as it is. Click on GO at the bottom! Close VCDEasy when done.

9) Now open Fireburner. File\Load tracks from cue.

10) Load c:\temp\tempcd.cue created in the above VCDEasy steps.

11) Configure device, 2x track at once. Close session, leave cd open.

12) Must use blank CD.. Create CD/Burn!

^^ Process works just fine to capture all video & burn out & play.
--Video played great in stand alone set top DVD player.

Burn to DVD
---------------
Have not explored what tools I will need to do this just yet...

I also want to have a menu so when I put the DVD in, I will see all of the MPG on the DVD & be able to pick one of them to skip to instantly. I have no idea how to do that yet either.

* Searched the net for other types of TV viewing software. Snapstream sucked real bad & you can't watch anything without recording first. ShowShifter crashed right after install & installed about 15MB of bloatware on the box. All the other TV viewer/recording with EPG also were crap that I could find. It seemed that WinDVR & PowerVCR are the 2 best programs to do what I want to do and neither one works properly.

* Tried to use AVI_IO on a command line to put scheduling of TV programs into Task Scheduler. It doesn't work because there is no way to specify what channel AVI_IO should record on in the INI file. It says the channel feature only works with certain cards and I don't have one. I can have it open & record any time I want but it's stuck on channel 4 when it starts up.


CONCLUSION
----------------
The hardware that I have is more or less what I am stuck with so please don't suggest 'changing the card' etc.. I broke the bank on the hardware as it is. :) I've spent a lot of time on this and so far can do everything I want to do. The only thing I can't do with my setup is set up a program to record TV shows automatically to my PC (I will explain why below).

* I can capture all video to SVCD using AVI_IO & TMPGEnc
* I can watch DVD movies using WinDVD
* I can watch TV using WinDVR
* I can play games/etc. on the TV using Twinview Clone Mode

I can't Record various scheduled TV programs from Cable to the HD for later processing into SVCD. The only recording tool that has worked so far is AVI_IO & if I can't change the channel number in the INI file I can't set it up programmably to do what I need. I might be able to write some type of c++ app to do sendkeys but what a waste of time? I would really like a video watching/recording tool that has a timer built in with channel changing for my card.

So basically I'm asking you guys for help. What I want to know first is, what do you think of my above capture process to SVCD? Does it suck, is it ok, what? If you have any suggestions on how I can speed up the conversion to SVCD I would like to hear it. I looked all over for a tool that would capture DIRECTLY to SVCD so I could skip a TMPGEnc re-code but I found none. The TMPGEnc takes a long time even for a small movie. Why doesn't anything just capture directly into SVCD from video?

I'd also like to know if maybe I missed a tool, or a combination of tools that will let me look at a TV guide. See a show I want. Then be able to add a task to the program or even task scheduler to launch the program & record that show to disc? It pisses me off that WinDVR & PowerVCR don't work cuz they seem like the best ones for the job. I want very badly to have this feature on my box and I'm all out of options. So I am turning to the xperts. :)

Any help is appreciated thanks! I'm pulling out my hair on this issue.

[Xtasy2002]

No one with a solution yet?

I am also looking for a possible capture program like AVI_IO but with the ability to accept command line start/stop options & be able to specify a WDM channel. Is there anything?

[kayfam]

I've got a couple of suggestions:
1. Swap out that Visiontek card and get your self an All In Wonder Radeon 7500 or higher (the 8500 if you want to do DV capture without and add-on card).
2. You need to switch to a NT based operating system such as Windows 2000 or XP to be able to capture to a NTFS formatted disc (no 4 gigabyte limitation) if you’re planning on doing any serious capturing and editing.
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but your current capture card is your biggest limiting factor. Others might suggest another solution, but the AIW is really the best bang for the buck IMHO. This would solve your problem with multiple monitor management and doing scheduled off the air recording.

[Xtasy2002]

Hey thanks for the help!! But it wasn't the card, after all. As it turns out something was wrong with my OS. There were some screwed up files & registry entries. After I rebooted to a fresh install & fresh OS I was able to get everything working for the card including all the WDM stuff. It actually works perfectly. The problems I had before were seemingly related to bad OS install.

This card is superior to any ATI product I've ever seen not only in features but also in price. I grabbed mine for under $100 and it does everything it's advertised to do (now that I finally got it working!).. And then some. Plus I have not come across bugs in their drivers/sw yet as long as it's installed into a good OS first. Overall I am highly impressed with this product.

WinDVR record works in fresh install.

Video Mirroring is still buggy but it works fine when sticking to drivers 21.81 Nvidia & WDM 1.08.

TV Tool unfortunately is still not an option, since it's own built in TV out mode is buggy & flickers. Is this the only tool to remove black borders around a tv out display?

Other programs that didn't work before now work ok due to fresh OS.

Virtual Dub also works great now.

PS: I capture in 480x480 directly to AVI using Huffyuv at 29.97.. Then convert the stream using TMPGEnc from a vdub frameserv to SVCD compliant video. It takes my machine about 4 1/2 hours to do a 1 hour 50 minute movie. Is that good, or bad? (no filters)

Thanks again for the replies!

[ima2hd]

I'd update to Windows 2000 or xp. Get a ATI all in wonder. 98 is really out of date for your needs. When i had 98 it could not even handle dvd motion very well. And would freeze up when I used any type of video capturing with my ATI.

[tomreedtoon]

Xtasy 2000, I have just installed an Xtasy Everything card. (Gave up on my old ATI TV Wonder SE.) The video from cable looks tremendous; it must be the fact that the tuner is separate from the high-RF environment of the computer case.

HOWEVER...how the heck do you capture at 480 x 480? Nothing I have will allow me to do so.

I have upgraded my WDM driver to the 1.16 version. The video driver is what came on the CD (not in front of me, I don't know what it is). I was told that upgrading the video driver would lose some of the other features like remote control and the "video mirror" feature, so I didn't do it.

I can capture, sort of, in VirtualDub. However, the captures show a lot more jerky motion than my old card. I have used both the Pegasus PICvideo and the Huffy compression encoders, at minimal compression, and I still get jerky looking captures. I am forced to capture at 640x480, apparently due to driver limitations.

My system is a 1 gHz Athlon, with 512 megs memory, and it has nearly nothing on it outside of the capture software.

First tell me how you got 480 x 480 captures, and I can progress from there.