An excellent VCD/xVCD DVD player PIONEER DV-250

[Erwin]

I just purchased a Pioneer DVD player today and this thing is awesome. It plays every single xVCD that I tested (even the ones that play terrible on most DVD players including some Apex DVD players). This player is fast, it's very very quiet (I can't hear any noise, even when I place my ear on the player itself), and it displays the best picture that I have ever seen on a DVD player. It looks like the Curtis Mathes CMD-5000 DVD player has been dethroned. I usually don't use a 32" TV to watch xVCDs because it magnifies the imperfections more (a 25" is most I go up to). The Pioneer still looked nice using my 32" TV though. I played all my xVCDs that had been captured at several diffent speeds and they have all played fine so far. This player looks sharp with it slim design with a silver finish. I remember when silver was a hard color to find in DVD players (I believe ProScan was the very first DVD player to have the silver finish). I tried the several Pioneer DVD players before and they never played my xVCDs properly; they would not play in synch or the playback would stutter like someone pushed the "slow search" button only with audio dragging as well. It's nice to finally have a real BIG name DVD player that plays xVCDs decently instead of companies that most people have never heard of like Curtis Mathes , Apex (actually Apex is pretty big now, and I believe they are the ones who brought the common consumer into the DVD market; Wal-Mart and Apex are almost sysnonomous now ), or Dawoo. Anyways, this player can be purchased at Wal-Mart for only $98.00.



This is a picture of the progressive scan model, but the player I got looks identical except for a few buttons that it does have on the DV-250 model.

[Erwin]

8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Chad Page]

BTW the 250 is basically the same as the 353 and the manual covers the 250/251/353... I can't tell why they used two different model numbers for basically the same player. Maybe the 250's a cost down version or a new naming/color scheme.

[Erwin]

"Maybe the 250's a cost down version or a new naming/color scheme."
It could be that it's a lower cost model. It is $98 which is very cheap for a Pioneer although it doesn't look like a $98 DVD at all.

[slanskye]

Thanks for posting Erwin and Chad - this player is not in the list here yet, and there's no info on the Pioneer site. Maybe this is special to Wal-Mart like the Apex 1100. I've been looking for a 2nd one like my Apex 3201, but the Apex 1500 wouldn't play my favorite commerical CD (12 Monkeys) without freezing at opening credits. Looking at the Mintek at BBY and the Apex 1100 at Wal-Mart, then saw this post - great timing! I really am impressed w/this one. Have done the 3201 remote hack so I could play thru my son's TV/VCR combo (VCR is broken so I only want a decent picture), but got spoiled by what that could play. Called Wal-Mart and they had a bunch, so ran and got it as soon as I got off work last night. Plays my DVD R/W (Memorix) and VCD (CD-R/W Maxell) and my 12 Monkeys no problem. And love this remote too.

[Erwin]

congrats, slanskye. Yeah, I had to post about this player b/c I feel that it is the best DVD player out there that can play xVCDs decently. I played a recent xVCD that I burned using the MMC_Reg_Tools software and the Simpsons look sooo much better now than my previous versions. I was also impressed that this player has component video out (but I think this is becoming the norm with all DVD players now). It also has both optical and coaxial DD/dts out.

[Chemcat]

I have the DV-353-k, just got it a week ago from Pioneer to replace a DV-343 that they couldn't repair, and I'm very happy with the upgrade. It ismuch quieter and has a nice remote + zoom and mp3 support. Maybe the difference between the DV-353-k and the DV-250 is the color because the DV-353-k is black and the layout is a little different but still ultra-slim.

[bbb]

Too bad they switched to a blue LED. I really prefer the orange LED--easier on tired eyes.

[Erwin]

"Maybe the difference between the DV-353-k and the DV-250 is the color because the DV-353-k is black and the layout is a little different but still ultra-slim."

Actually, the DV-250 looks exactly like the picture you have shown except it is metallic silver. The picture I displayed is their progressive scan model, but it was the closest pic I could find. The only difference is that the power button is a thin button instead of the square button.

[SingSing]

It does look like the 353. This model does not have a switch
at the back to select between the component video and s-video/rca
output. I assume they are both ative at the same time, this is a big plus.


Is the picture same or better than the popular Pioneer DV333 ?

Also, $98.00 is less than what the retailprice of 353k, isn't it ?

[wway]

Questions:

1. What is the maximum bitrate for this player for playing xVCD's ?

2a. Will it play xSVCD's (specifically xSVCD at 352x480 = CVD) ?

2b. What is the maximum bitrate for CVD's?

Could someone try a CVD at 2400 cbr. PLEASE. That will be enough.

I got a Daewoo 5800 last week and it wont play my CVD's correctly. Need to take it back. Would love to get this Pioneer if it can do CVD's.

Thanks
wway

[SingSing]

CVD play just fine on Dv-333.
I should play on DV-250.

Why do you prefer CVD instead of SVCD ?
The minutes different is very minor.

[wway]

CVD play just fine on Dv-333.
I should play on DV-250.

Why do you prefer CVD instead of SVCD ?
The minutes different is very minor.

SingSing,

Assuming 40 minutes of SVCD video (480x480) can be burned onto an 80 minutes CD, 54 minutes can be burned at 352x480 with the same bits/pixel ratio (480/352*40 = 54.5).

I agree that 480x480 looks a little better, however i prefer the extra 14.5 minutes (29 minutes for 2 disks).

wway

[eaf]

Both of the mentioned players (250 and 353) play SVCDs with incorrect aspect ratio.

When using with a standard 4:3 TV, one has to set 16:9 output in the player. Otherwise the playback is vertically squeezed.

It's not a single unit defect because I tried several.

And it's not a problem of the source material: same disks play fine in other DVD players (JVC, Sony, Panasonic). In fact, some of those disks are test disks from this site.

[SingSing]

I agree that 480x480 looks a little better, however i prefer the extra 14.5 minutes (29 minutes for 2 disks).
wway

Agreed. I remember on older version on TMPGenc12,
I need to use a program to change the H and V value in the mpeg2
file to CVD's values. Or else a distored picture is display on TV.

Is this still necessary with newer version ?

[wway]

I agree that 480x480 looks a little better, however i prefer the extra 14.5 minutes (29 minutes for 2 disks).
wway

Agreed. I remember on older version on TMPGenc12,
I need to use a program to change the H and V value in the mpeg2
file to CVD's values. Or else a distored picture is display on TV.

Is this still necessary with newer version ?

I use TMPGEnc v2.53 (free version). I never had to change anything in the mpeg2 file. That could have been a problem with your DVD player and not TMPGEnc.

I think CVD is better than VCD and SVCD. Not sure why SVCD became a standard. Probably politics.

wway

[LeeBear]

If you think CVD is better then SVCD then you obviously haven't watched it on a high end TV. I've tried a few CVD's on a HDTV Toshiba 16:9 widescreen TV and it's obvious which looks better. The CVD produces ugly stair patterns on diagonal edges, it actually looks worst then a VCD. The VCD isn't as sharp but you don't get the diagonal stair step effect. CVD's strength is it takes advantage of the lower resolution of normal TV's but once people move onto higher end TV's they'll see the flaws of CVD.

-LeeBear

[SatStorm]

.... which are the same as SVCD and most of DVB transmissions!

Look, I am sick of this: DVD, SVCD, CVD, VCD, VHS, SVHS looks all like crap in any HDTV. And not only there: There some new Pixel Plus (800 vertical lines!) televisions from Philips and if you watch DVDs there, looks like a crap VHS tape on a good 32 screen 100hz TV.

All of todays standards sucks (only digital VHS looks good) but we have to live with them for about 20 more years.

Now, I keep reading US members of the board posting how bad is CVD and I keep reading exactly the opposite from Pal members. So, let put it straight: If you live in US, don't bother with CVD. Stick with SVCD 'cause for some strange reason it does look better CVD. But PAL (the rest of the world) is another story. With Pal CVDs there are no ugly stair patterns on diagonal edges. The picture is perfect, only slighty blury compared to SVCD, but with definetaly less blocks.
Just imagine that there are many DVB European channels transmittions with this resolution and all looked amazing. So, those problems NTSC users have, it is not CVD's resolution fault (352 X 576/480). Something else is happening and it is up to you, the US board members to find it. Or simply don't bother with the format. But don't blame CVD's resolution for this. Just think that CVD ain't for you! It is a PAL thing!

[wway]

If you think CVD is better then SVCD then you obviously haven't watched it on a high end TV. I've tried a few CVD's on a HDTV Toshiba 16:9 widescreen TV and it's obvious which looks better. The CVD produces ugly stair patterns on diagonal edges, it actually looks worst then a VCD. The VCD isn't as sharp but you don't get the diagonal stair step effect. CVD's strength is it takes advantage of the lower resolution of normal TV's but once people move onto higher end TV's they'll see the flaws of CVD.

-LeeBear

You're right LeeBear, I have not watched CVD on a HDTV because i dont have one. Are you suggesting i still encode to SVCD format? If so, then i suggest you encode to DVD format because DVD will look better on your HDTV than SVCD.

I stated earlier that SVCD looks better than CVD. But for me, CVD offer more movie on a disk than SVCD and looks better on my 27 inch & 19 inch TV's than VCD.

I'm sure you have your reasons for sticking with SVCD and not DVD. Well, i have my reasons too. I'll worry about how CVD looks on a HDTV when I cross that bridge.


wway

PS. I think the HDTV's have 4:3 aspect ratio mode. If so, should not be a problem moving up.

[LeeBear]

SatStorm: Geez man chill out a bit! You take things a little to personally or something. Just because you wrote a guide about CVD doesn't mean it's flawless format. I never said CVD, SVCD, etc looked like crap on a HDTV like you made it sound. I said CVD produce a noticeable stair step like pattern on diagonal edges. And I am not the only one who has experience this, even people with non HDTV has seen this. It's in this link http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=99509
Nobody is arguing with you that CVD is less blocky then SVCD so I don't know why you are going off in that direction. Even though with the use of filters to soften up the picture you can virtually eliminate blocks on SVCD movies.

Regarding the only US people being able to see this flaw with CVD. Well I cannot say if that is true or not since I do not live in a PAL area. But I doubt that it would be the case, besides believe it or not there's a large number of people who are using the NTSC system so I'm sure they would want to know about this flaw with CVD. Oh, and I do blame CVD's resolution for the stair like affect, it's 352x480 resolution has a pixel ratio that displayed on a 16:9 TV that's nearly 2.5x as long as it's tall, obviously leading to the stair like effect. It's less noticeable on a 4:3 tv because the ratio is less.

wway: I never told you to stop using CVD. If it works for you, use it. Like I said I was just pointing out a flaw with CVD that SatStorm 'apparently' never mentions in his CVD guide Oh, and if I had a DVD recorder I would encode to DVD format... unfortunately I don't The reason I stick with SVCD (besides the stair step thing with CVD) is because most of the material I encode are movies. And a normal movie is around 90-120 minutes long. That's a job for 2 CD's in CVD or SVCD format, it's not hard to get 45-60 minutes on SVCD without blocks, especially if the source is film and widescreen. The film framerate has less to encode, and with the letterbox there is actually only about 480x360 pixels to encode... which is pretty much the same number of pixels 352x480 CVD has.

-LeeBear

P.S. HDTV comes in both 16:9 or the normal 4:3 ratio model. Either models have haves of dealing with the other aspect ratio's.

[SatStorm]

Leebear I don't take it personally and in the article I posted for CVD, I only wrote what I see myself and mention what other users report in things I can't test myself.
Also, I never said CVD is a good format. The resolution it is using is a very good solution / alternative for home stuff. CVD is terrible, the same way all CD based formats are.
And those things you -and others- say that you see, simply don't seems that are issues with us, the PAL users. It doesn't appear to be a problem here! So, I keep reminding this thing all over and all over again, just to eliminate bad conclusion of any type.... My efforts are posting only the facts for the subject, which are: The are unsolved visual issues for CVD and NTSC users, which they don't exist for PAL users.

About HDTV.
Basicly, I having a long - long dead end conversation in another forum, about how DVD looks in a HDTV. Well, it looks like crap. But the whole PAL/Europe market is based on DVB/DVD. So, they dicided not to be HDTV in europe for many many more years. Sour gonna be TV sets, but there gonna be no support of any kind for them, before the release of blue ray discs!

So, here rise a question:
Why Europe is so much investing on those mpeg 2 based technologies, while everyone know that looks like CRAP in HDTV?
If you think it a bit, this is a technological "scandal"

Here also is an irony: PAL is true better NTSC and Europe is ahead on some technologies USA (like DVB transmissions).
From the other hand, USA gonna move to HDTV much faster! There are already some HDTV transmissions there! In europe we start talking to do the switch in about 10 - 15 years! Imagine that! Isn't stupid? Only some European countries with cable networks might hope for faster services in this matter.

So, the point for me is that living in Europe or PAL zone, for more that 15 years, DVD and anything this ******* disc supports, gonna be the only choice we have. There is no near future for us here, the next step gonna be in more than 10 years. So, the consernes for quality and other stuff you have there in USA, simply don't exist here. You gonna do the next step, a high one in the close future and you prepare yourself for it. Good for you. We in europe already done a much smaller technology step and thats it. We don't have to prepare for anything: For 15 years thats it. No HDTV for us!

Now, do you see my point of view?

So, DVD support some specific resolutions: 352 x 288/240 as mpeg 1 (and probably mpeg 2 still don't know for sure...), 352 X 576/480. 704 x 576/480 and 720 x 576/480. So, the mission is to make the best in those resolutions because we gonna have them, wanted or not for many - many years... No, if I have to concerned for what gonna happen and how my CD/DVD based stuff gonna look on a PAL HDTV after 10 - 15 years, that is something else. Personally, I don't give a rap! In 15 years, probably I'll be dead...

My only hope is that manufactures gonna find ways to make those awfull - for HDTV - framesizes look better on new technology PAL TVs, in a way they make the awful VHS tapes look good on todays mainstream VCRs.

[a]

Europe is a little slower in doing major technological advances, but I should think so much has been invested in DVD technology at least the european new generation equipment will still feature hardware to support maximum quality on older generation storage formats. This is something you can see on the european VHS market for example, newer and better quality equipment is still available in the shops, even though the market is definitely putting pressure on consumers to stop supporting the old format for good.

And, as noted on some other discussions on this site, most west-european consumers are if not HIFI-freaks, at least terribly picky about on what they spend their money. WAP on the mobile phone field showed us how deadly it is for companies to push out new (or in WAP's case, middle .) generation technologies and not support older ones in any way.

[Erwin]

The Pioneer that I have is still going strong. Although I am about to get into DVD-R/+R burning, I don't see any reason to stop capturing XVCDs as they can look almost as good when used with MRC_Reg tools (awesome tool). If you have XVCDs at a bit rate 1700 to 2500Mps, it can look about as good as DVD. The only limit is space...that's it.

[MichiganFocker]

Any one know how to apply the region free hack on the dv-250? Searchin around and i have no idea how. Thanks.

[rhuss]

does this player play dvd-audio?

thanks.