120 MINUTES ONTO 80 MINUTE CDR.

[PAUL26]

I USE DVD DECRYPTER,DVD2AVI AND 2MEG ENCODE, BUT I STILL CANT WORK OUT HOW 2 ENCODE 120 MINUTES FOR A 80 MINUTE(700MB)CDR ,I ALWAYS END UP HAVING TO SPLIT IT ONTO 2 CD'S. PLEASSSSSSEEEE HELPPPPPP SOMEONE!!!!!

[Macros746]

Using VBR I've gotten a very nice quality 90 minutes onto a 80 min CD-R but I think you are REALLY pushing it if you want 120 minutes. I'm sure it's possible......if you are willing to sacrifice quality. I'd uses 2 pass VBR in TMPGenc, Make your average bitrate under 1000, make your audio 128 (or even 96) kbps, and see what happens. That should get you fairly close to your goal...but I can' speak for the results.

Macros746

[tmcmvd]

If it was possible to put 120 minutes aceptable high quality video on an 800 MB disk...they wouldn't have invented DVD

Just except that a 90 minutes movie takes 2 cd's and a 120 minutes movie 3. Price is nice..so what's the problem... bad quality is not what you did all the work for, is it.

Goodluck.

[Macros746]

I would argue about the 3 discs for a 120 minute movie...but opinion is opinion. I have a beautiful two disc Patriot SVCD. But using VBR VCD you really can fit an amazing amount on a disc (I have the entire BUffy first season set on six CDs) But I think anything much beyond 90 minutes is a lost cause.

Macros746

p.s. if you really are obsessed with the whole one disc thing you are better off with Divx. You should take a look at doom9.net for some great guides.

[tmcmvd]

Agree....but also depends on number of hi motion scenes...

greetz..

[fatcatfan]

Now, this is just my preference, so take it as you will.

Previously I've done just about everything in TMPG using 2-Pass VBR. For the same reason you are, though not in that extreme - great control over file size and respectable quailty for the avg bitrate you are using.

But I'm more and more starting to prefer CQ over 2P-VBR. You'll need to experiment a bit to get the file to fit on one CD, but I believe (without testing of course) that using whatever CQ setting is necessary to get 2 hours on one CD will produce better quality picture than TMPGs 2P-VBR.

This only applies to TMPG. I think its VBR just craps out when it has to work with low bitrates. My experience (though small) has been that all else being equal, and the final products having the same file size, TMPGs CQ just plain looks better. Somewhere in TMPGs 2P-VBR, artifacts that shouldn't be there at all creep in.

[kwag]

If it was possible to put 120 minutes aceptable high quality video on an 800 MB disk...they wouldn't have invented DVD

Goodluck.

Or kvcd.net
If standard VCD quality is ok for you, then try the 352x240 PLUS template. You'll fit 120+ minutes in a single 80 minute CD.

-kwag

[MaDmiZe]

When I started I put everything on 2 CDRs as standard VCD...thinking that was just the way it worked.
Then I started messing with non-standard VCD and (since I have a apex1500) now I put every movie with the exception of "pearl harbor" (3:30 something) onto one CDR. I think the longest movie I have on one CDR is 2:19 or so...I dont see a huge difference in quality and I like the convienance of 1 movie 1 disc.
So, unlock the standard VCD template (or get one of Kwags, they are good ..but I prefer my own) and experiment...I always use MVBR and adjust the upper and lower, and drop audio to 96...be sure to set the type on the last tab under settings to nonstandard VCD...or every thing you change will be negated (for the most part)

[Deusxmachina]

Some movies will fit on one disc no problem, even 2-hour movies, and some won't. If a movie is in 2.35 aspect ratio and there's not a lot of action, the file size can be surprisingly small.

Usually, there is simply no way to do a standard movie in SVCD on one disc and have very good quality on something over a 32" television. You just can't do it. Even SLP VHS looks plenty good on my 20-some inch TV, but blow it up to 50" and it's hard to watch.

Kwag's templates help save around 100 megs in file size if I remember from when I was testing them out, but I ran into a lot of synch problems. The longer the movie ran, the worse it would get out of synch. So I gave up on making non-standard files to ensure they will always be compatible with whatever player. (The 352x resolution caused problems, too.) And while 100 meg is a good savings, most movies I make are still going to need two discs to have good enough quality for a big television anyway.

That's all for SVCD, which needs a bigger file size. It's much easier to fit VCD onto one disc. I'll usually do that for stand-up comedy and things that the video isn't that important.

I also agree about using CQ mode. I started using CQ mode back when I was playing with Kwag's templates, and ever since then I haven't used two-pass VBR at all. CQ gives better quality in a smaller filesize. I don't know why, but it does. And once you do a few movies, it's pretty easy to do the settings to get the filesize very close to what you want. And CQ mode takes half the time, so there you go. A CQ'ed movie with a file size of, say, 700 megs, will most likely look better than a two-pass'ed movie of 800 megs, despite being 100 meg smaller. I don't know why, but it does.

[kwag]

@Deusxmachina,
You might want to take a look again at the KVCD 352x240 PLUS template. It should run fine in your Apex, and almost every DVD player, because it uses the standard VCD resolution and standard bit rate of 1,150Kbps. But the encoding is CQ_VBR, and the older templates were CQ. I'm getting reports on many players that didn't play before, and now they do.

-kwag

[Deusxmachina]

Surprisingly, a search on it is hard to come up with decent answers, so since you're here, I'll ask. What's your opinion on the difference between cq mode and cq_vbr? Is cq_vbr basically the same thing as cq just maybe with a little better variable ability? Is there even any quality difference between the two? One has a min and max and slider, and the other has a min and max and slider and two more options that most people will never use. Is that the only quality difference?

[LordVader]

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----------------------------------------------------------

Phantom Menace - 2hrs-16min ( wide screen ) 4:3 , you will get an extra space for a teaser of 1min.

author with VCDeasy , create your chapters , and check MPEGAV compatiblity .

Good Luck

[Martyn1980]

It is very possible, and not just with DVD as the sorce as i thought, i just encoded the avi version of About A Boy using Kwags old 352x480 template, not the plus one the one that uses CQ 70, hoping for a 700mb filesize for the video this is for 101mins NTSC, went to bed last night got up a few hours ago, and the filesize is 454mb, the whole thing is there, and it looks great, well considering the filesize, definetely watchable, its for my mum who isnt too fussy and doesn't like changing dics.

It might be because its not the best DIVX file out there, and its kinda blurry, just wondering if this is normal Kwag for this template, because at this rate i could get 140mins on one disc, im reaslise its because its not exactly high action, but still amazing considering, just wish the yukai played mpeg1 properly.

It can be done Paul just experiment.

[kwag]

Surprisingly, a search on it is hard to come up with decent answers, so since you're here, I'll ask. What's your opinion on the difference between cq mode and cq_vbr? Is cq_vbr basically the same thing as cq just maybe with a little better variable ability? Is there even any quality difference between the two? One has a min and max and slider, and the other has a min and max and slider and two more options that most people will never use. Is that the only quality difference?

I'm not exactly sure about the internals on both encoding algorithms, but there is a difference on the encoded mpegs. So it's not the same thing. With the same settings, you get slightly larger file size with CQ_VBR. But then, when I made the new Q.Matrix, the one used on the PLUS templates, I didn't get optimized results using CQ. It works best with CQ_VBR. On the SKVCD and KDVD, it does work, but at higher CQ settings. I also got higher compression on MPEG-1. I still have to work on the SKVCD and KDVD, as they're still on CQ. So I'm going to try and optimize them on CQ_VBR, just as in the PLUS.
The one that has been optimized to the max, I would say, is the 704x480 PLUS. You'll get this: http://ns1.shidima.com/kwag/KVCD_704x480_PLUS.mpg
And that's 60 seconds at about 12MB, which increases the playtime to ~65-68 minutes per CD. That's the latest news

@Martyn1980,
Have you tried the 352x240 PLUS on your Yukiyuki player ?

-kwag

[Martyn1980]

Havn't tried it yet, probably would work, but im not really keen on VCD resolution, might mess about with it, ive just bought a couple of CD-RW so im not really encoding much to watch right now, just running tests, im looking for another DVD player right now, one that will play mpeg1+2right up to 720x576 at bitrates up to 6mbs, also plays SVCD subtitles and menus ok, plus no audio sync problems, does anyone know of any.

By the way Kwag nice sample, i used that template on Training Day, well the Pal one, and the second disc was only 725mb with 224k audio, and it was just under 60mins, left me enough space to stick the alternate ending on as well, your SkVCD templates play great on the yukiyuki though.

[kwag]

Martyn1980,
If you're going to buy a new player, I strongly recommend the JVC XV-F80 series. It will play just about anything you throw at it. And it's a 7 disk changer

-kwag

[thxkid]

Have tried MPEG2 704x480 upto 7000 bitrate on the following 2 DVD Players and they played it back perfect.

Daewoo 5800
Sampo 631CF

I had a VCD that had terrible lip sync problems in any APEX the Sampo played it back perfect, when my brother saw that he went and bought the Sampo just for that reason.

[Martyn1980]

Thanks a lot guys, the Yukai us ok but, it dont like Mpeg1, DVD quality aint great and it overheats quickly and crashes a lot, i'll look into those players, didn't know big brands like JVC and Daewoo were XVCD compatible at high bitrates, usually the cheaper, asian players.

[jg]

I use VCDEasy 1.1.1 to make menus as similar as possible to those on the DVD. They work quite well in the single CD SVCDs I have made thus far.

However, I have been stuck with the Top Gun SVCD I am currently working on. The problem seems to be with the length of the movie. During the creation of the bin vcdimager reports that the length of the movie exceeds 100 minutes and is clipping it to 100 minutes. Playing the burned SVCD on pc with WinDVD, the full movie is there and all the menus work perfectly. But on my Hiteker/Apex AD700 the movie plays till 77:00 minutes then finishes and goes back to the player logo screen. The player's front panel also displays 77:00 minutes.

The menus are faulty unpredictably displaying as black or remaining at the current menu picture. Even when the menu picture does not advance the numeric options for the menu that did not display, do work correctly e.g. by jumping into a chapter in the movie. However, the chapter points in the movie are incorrect. 30 chapter points have been defined throughout the 107 minutes of the movie. But now the same 30 chapter points are distributed over 77 minutes of the movie. So the only correct chapter point is the first.

Having searched through the forums, I have tried the following solutions.

1. The Apex/Hiteker AD700 plays SVCD according to the Apex site, nowhereman and various posts from Apex/Hiteker owners. Even then, I have upgraded the firmware to HIT007-2AM but stopped short of the Haier or Sampo upgrades as there doesn't seem to be any need to go that far.

2. I tested the menus with navigation to a short movie on their own to verify that the menu mpeg stills are not at fault. They work perfectly.

3. I have tried using the VCDEasy option, "Use MPEGAV/ENTRYSVCD instead of MPEG2/ENTRYVCD" option. It doesn't help.

4. I have tried fixing the header of the movie to MPEG1 and burned it as VCD. No luck. In fact, this is where the menu stills often displayed black. Navigation worked fine but once into the movie the following ceased to work; chapter navigation using the skip button, ffwd/rew, pause and stop. The only way to get out of the movie was to press eject or to power off.

5. The VCD included the CDi application so with the SVCD, in desperation, I tried it with and without as well. No difference.

6. vcdimager reported the movie exceeded the 100 minute limit. So I tried split the movie in 2 and adjusted the chapter points for the second half and the menus accordingly. This introduced a pause when the movie changed tracks but is not a problem. But the menus still did not display correctly. Navigation still worked but as before still jumped to the wrong points in the movie.

7. Incorrect image creation. Nero accepts the MPEG2 file and doesn't complain about exceeding 100 minutes. Only vcdimager does. So there is nothing wrong with the MPEG2. However, Nero doesn't allow the menu sophistication desired.

In attempting to find the solution, various combinations of creating the SVCD by varying the options in VCDEasy caused different behaviour in the dvd player with the only thing in common being that none fixed the problem. The burned disk played perfectly in all respects with WinDVD in both the DVDROM and CDRW drives.

Now, whilst searching far and wide, I came across all sorts of recommendations for SVCD problems on various players using various combinations of less popular software. None specifically dealt with the problem of slightly more sophisticated menus.

I believe many use VCDEasy and it's suite of applications for authoring. And Apex/Hiteker owners number thousands. So there must be some veteran who knows the answer. A post that came close to this problem is:

http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71765&highlight=

[Deusxmachina]

I ran some samples using the standard SVCD template and the KVCD Plus mentioned above that uses cq_vbr. I also used the standard TMPG VCD template, but the results were odd. Check this out:

"Merlin," 4:3 aspect, two-minute sample from near the beginning where the guy starts telling the story and then it cuts between him and the army fight scenes.

SVCD (all with 128 audio)
65cq, 2000 max = 22.5megs (675 megs for 60 minutes)
75cq, 2000 max = 27.5 (825 megs)
65cq, 1700 max = 21.4 (642 megs)
75cq, 1700 max = 25.2 (756 megs)

KVCD Plus (all with 128 audio)
65cq, 2000 max = 24.3 (729 megs for 60 minutes)
75cq, 2000 max = 24.5 (735 megs)
65cq, 1600 max = 21.6 (648 megs)
75cq, 1600 max = 21.5 (648 megs)

The regular SVCD template actually wins out at this bitrate level, and it's at x480 and not x240. They are all completely watchable and quite good on a big TV. The 65cq @1700 SVCD surprised me on how good it looks, and that's with ten soldiers running around scaling castle walls and things. There's some macroblocking here and there, but it only lasts a moment and isn't a big deal at all, IMO. I'm happy to cap the top bitrate and trade a little macroblocking on intense action scenes in order to have the saved bits make the other 98% of the movie look better.

The higher the cq you use, the more it will use the higher bitrates, of course, which explains why the 75cq@2000max is so much bigger than the others. Even in 4:3 format, a max of 1700 looked quite good to me. I generally cap the limit at 1700 or 1800 when I'm trying to squeeze the filesize a bit.

So, since high cq's with a VCD template basically doesn't help anything over using SVCD, and you get worse resolution, I see no point in using VCD for anything that isn't being super-squeezed for filesize. What was interesting to me, though, is how well the KVCD Plus worked at the low cq's and bitrates:

SVCD, 50cq, 1800max = 17.1megs (513megs for 60 minutes)
KVCDplus, 50cq, 1150max = 17.3 (519megs)
KVCDplus, 35cq, 1125max = 16.8 (504megs)

The SVCD at 50cq might be tolerable on smaller screens such as monitors, but it's pretty lousy on something bigger. The KVCDplus at this level was excellent (for VCD). 4:3 aspect ratio, all that action, with a max of 1125 to 1150, and it looked great. The resolution sucks because it's x240, of course, but when you want to squeeze it that extra bit, it looked very good.

People may have guessed at the above results already before, but I thought it was interesting. VCD, even KVCDplus, at high cq's is basically a waste of time and a waste of resolution over SVCD. But at low cq's it's great. The strangest part was when I did a couple of the KVCDplus tests above using the standard VCD template. Something must have been wrong because the standard VCD template at 50cq, max1150 and 35cq, max1150 both were 21megs (630megs per hour). And they were absolutely horrible. The 50cq SVCD was much better. Something must have been wrong to get those results, I would think.

I haven't tested more then the two-minute clips yet to see if the synch problems are gone on the Apex with the new KVCDplus. I will one of these days.

Also, for anyone worried about fitting SVCD onto one disc and uses VCD instead, SVCD works more often than you might think. I fit BladeRunner onto one disc @ 128 audio onto one disc using the standard SVCD template, it's like an hour and 50 minutes or whatever (2.35 aspect), and half the time I can do 90 minutes in 1.85 aspect if it's not a huge action movie. And this stuff isn't watched on a little 27" TV, remember. For stuff like that, the main thing I do is cap the max bitrate at 1700 or 1800, and if anything macroblocks during action, it's pretty rare. Maybe TMPGenc is just that damn good. 1600 max is pushing it, though. That's too low for SVCD.