Terminator 2 Ultimate DVD to 2 Discs problems, PLZ Help???

[Bobby]

Hi all.
As the subject states I am currently trying to convert T2 DVD to either 2 CVD's (preferable) or 2 vcd's.
The problem is that T2 Ultimate is 146 minutes long-quite a long film even if credits are cut it is still 142 minutes long.
I cannot seem to get a two disc file size for this film (1600 mb's for video and audio at 224 kbps (min of 160) is my goal) everything I've tryed makes a larger file-therefore it cannot fit 2 discs. I wan't to use the half D1 res of 352 x 576 or above in my encode.

1) In CCE 2.62 These are the settings Ive used:
2 pass VBR Max 2520, Avg 1258, min 300 (Average calculated from VCDHelps online Bitrate calc for 2 80 min discs @ 146 mins)
I didnt encode all the way because I noticed that @ 25% The filesize was 769 mb's(almost 1 80 min disc)!!! D'oesnt take a genuis to work out it the full encode wouldnt fit on 2 discs. With these settings though Vid quality was great!!


2) In TMPGEnc 2.55 Thes are the settings Ive used:
Actually for this 1 Ive tryed KVCD Templates:

KVCD Plus template with avg of 90 per disc:
(KVCD-CQ-352x576-_PAL_-PLUS.mcf)
This created a file size of 1.66gb-2 large yes but that was only the Video data!!-I always encode the audio file seperate and multiplex later.
I cant understand, if that template has an average of 90 mins per disc then i would get an avg of 180 mins for 2 discs right?
I cannot even get 146? Vid quality was very very good with this though!!

KVCDx2 2-CD template:
(KVCDx2-CQ-704x576-_PAL_-2CD.mcf)
This create a bad image possibly down to the high res with low bitrate (kwag?)
T2 features some high action scenes so there was many blocks compared to 352 x 576, saying that though text @ 704 x 576 was much clearer and sharper. I didn't encode all the way becuase of my samples looking bad (10 minute sample-high action scene and normal motion scene-rough idea of what the whole movie will look like)

I've already created the mp2 audio file of 224 kbps 48 hz (Works on my dvd player) its size is 235mb so i have roughly 1360-1400 mb's left for video for it to fit on 2 cd's.
Basically I wanna create a cvd (or vcd if I must) of T2 that fits on 2 discs has 224-160 kbps for audio, and decent enough video quality (obviously I wanna have best quality for a 2 disc movie)

Has anyone any idea of the settings I need for either T2 CCE or TMPGEnc to fit it on 2 discs? My Dvd player can handle non standard vcds and cvds btw.
Plz help as I've spent many many hours trying to get this right
Either file size is to large or vid quality is very very bad.
I know it can be done as I've seen some great 2 disc encodes of films from 120 minutes to 137 minutes-just need to stretch that bit farther to 146. Sorry for the long read but I tryed to explain Problems as best i could.
Thanx for reading!!

[Martok]

There's an old saying:

Never try to teach a pig to sing,
it will frustrate you,
and annoy the pig.

Go for more quality, and use 3 discs.
Use your time wisely, encode less, watch more.

[SatStorm]

If your source is in widescreen, let say 2 11 1 aspect or close, the it is possible to get 2 CVDs and good quality (not perfect) with an average of 1258kb/s. Use min 620.
If your source is 16:9, then you have to do a manual re-Scaling, so to make smaller the aspect smaller than 16:9 screen. Ain't difficult with TMPGenc. Remember that 16 left and 16 right Horizontal lines, ain't visible on TVs!

That way to encoded SHREK (from 16:9 source) in 1 CD, CVD format with excellent quality. Only twice I notice blocks in picture, and not that bad, barely noticable.
For audio, set it 192kb/s stereo, don't go lower for that movie!

If you want top quality with this movie, then go for 3 discs, SVCD format!

[Bobby]

Thanx for the repylies guys!!
SatStorm are you suggesting that I use SVCD instead of CVD for T2?
Wouldn't cvd not look better as I find it generally does?
Also the Vid is a 16:9 film so are you saying that i have to make the res 336 x 560? (Remember that 16 left and 16 right Horizontal lines, ain't visible on TVs!)
If i set up a CVD template with the above res in TMPGEnc (using a d2v file) and save the project, then open the project file in Vfapi and convert it to a useable avi, can I still encode in CCE??
Also how come in CCE 2 pass vbr takes so long as compared to cbr? The first pass, when its writing to the vaf file encodes the movie at normal speed, but the second pass takes twice as long??
Any ideas?

[marvel2020]

I was able to put that movie onto 2 discs, (all be it they where 99 mintue Cdr's).

I even put in the 2 scenes that where not included in the Ultimate Edition which meant i had the alternative ending instead of the orignal ending.

I just used the VCD Birate calculator from this site, encoded the movie
using TMPEGnc as a xVCD, Drop the audio down to 128 for more Birate Quality and kept the movie as it is using the setting Full Screen Keep Aspect Ratio.

I ended up with Excellent Quality xVCD that looked superb even on a 28inch Toshiba Widescreen Dolby Pro Logic Surround Sound TV.

[SatStorm]

The best quality on 3 CDs gonna be SVCD.
CVD gonna look almost indentical, less blocks but also slighty less sharpness which for an action movie like T2 gonna be noticable! CVD also offers you more future compatibility if you intent to burn the movie on DVD-Rs in the near future

Yes, you get it right: Resize manual you source with TMPGenc @ 320 x 544. Then, mask the up and bottom borders of the movie. leave unmasked only the active part of the screen.
That way, you gonna have a less active window in the screen, so less compression needed. It is a cheap advance trick you can do with tmpgenc very easy!
Now, set output you file as 4:3.

With an average of 1258kb/s (or close) and audio about 192kb/s, you could fit T2 on 2 CVDs with good - but not perfect - quality. If you use pal, also output as interlace your source, even if your source is progressive! That will add natural sharpness and better color on a PAL TV.
On PC, those files gonna look horrible, so burn them on a disc and watch them on TV. They look much better there!

[Bobby]

Thanx everyone for ya help
I've managed to get T2 onto 2 discs in CVD format using DVD2SVCD!!(Thanx Baker for the guide ) Audio @ 160 kbps and vid (CCE 2.50) at multipass with 1300 being average, max being 2530, and 300 being the minimum!!
It looks really good, very happy with it.
A few questions though:

Ive recently decided that Im gonna get myself a DVD-R so I can fit try and fit 2-3 cvd's per disc. My question is that with bakers guide will the CVD's created with DVD2SVCD be 100% DVD compliant? as in all I'll have to do is drop the mpv and mp2 files into a DVD authoring program and burn?

Also I find that CCE 2.62 is faster than CCE 2.50 on my machine, Is there anyway to get 2.62 working with DVD2SVCD? I've heard there is problems with it crashing etc?

Last question, is it possible to use 99 minute CDR's with DVD2SVCD?
I've a few lying around and would like to redo T2 using two 99 min CDR's to squeeze as much quality as i can onto 2 cd's (ie get DVD2SVCD to fill the image files up to 950 mb's instead of 800).

Cheers for all replies
Bobby