Real-time MPEG2 to DVD Capture

[cubsfan45]

If money is not an issue (at least up to a few thousand dollars), what is the highest quality, quickest way to capture any video source (DV, MiniDV, VHS, etc...) in an Mpeg-2 format (720x480) to be ready to burned to DVD. I saw that the Dazzle Digital Video Creator captures Mpeg in real time, but it only captures with a resolution of 352x240 so that's not an option. Thanks in advance,
Eugene

[SLK001]

I use a Sigma Designs RealMagic DVR to capture video to MPEG2 in real time. My caps are full D1 resolution at 9Mbps. They are superb captures.

[BJ_M]

get a Matrox RT.X100 system ... $1000 complete ..
Realtime MPEG-2 for DVD authoring Matrox RT.X100 greatly simplifies the DVD creation process by integrating audio and video acquisition, realtime editing, graphics creation, realtime MPEG-2 encoding, DVD authoring, and pre-mastering in a single, affordable system. Sonic Solutions DVDit! LE, an easy-to-use DVD authoring application, is included in the Matrox RT.X100 software bundle.
Realtime MPEG-2 IBP capture from analog and DV sources
Matrox RT.X100 lets you capture clips in realtime from analog and DV sources directly to MPEG-2 IBP files for immediate use in your DVD authoring program. There is no need to capture video first, then place clips on the timeline to finally export them into the MPEG-2 format. This feature is an invaluable tool when archiving stock footage and projects on digital servers or DVD disks.
Realtime MPEG-2 IBP encoding from the Adobe Premiere timeline
Matrox RT.X100 lets you create your DVD video and audio assets by exporting your project directly from the editing timeline in real time.
Accelerated batch encoding of VCD, SVCD, multimedia, and web formats
Matrox MediaExport provides hardware-accelerated batch encoding of Windows Media/RealMedia streaming formats and MPEG-1/MPEG-2 multimedia formats with multiple resolutions, bit rates, and frame rates.


http://www.matrox.com/video/products/rtx100/home.cfm

[cubsfan45]

When encoding to MPEG-2, does the Matrox use VBR or CBR? Can you specify the maximum, minimum, and average bit rates? Also, is there an option to demultiplex the audio and video streams so that I could burn in a DVD authroing program like Pinnacle Impression Pro. The reason I ask is because DVD-Rs that demultiplex the streams are more compliant in stand alone DVD players.

[jtor]

...checkout Canopus DV Storm SE, and while you're at it (and with the budget you had in mind), you might want to look into Storm Encoder as well.

[SLK001]

What does this mean?

...DVD-Rs that demultiplex the streams are more compliant in stand alone DVD players.

A DVD is not comprised of an audio track and a video track. It is comprised of a MULTIPLEXED program stream which include the audio and video. If the audio is properly processed and authored, there is no issue with A/V syncronization (what I'm assuming you are calling "compliance").

[cubsfan45]

If the audio and video are combined in an MPEG, that means that they are multiplexed. The reason that one would not want to combine the audio and video in one stream is because DVD players are not required to accept audio that is in MPEG-2 format. The DVD standard for audio is either PCM or AC3. If the audio is combined with the video, there's no guarantee that the audio will play. That is why I want to if the Matrox hardware will separate the streams or if I have to do it with outside software.

[cubsfan45]

SLK...I just checked out the Sigma designs hardware that you recommended. I see that it has a lot of the features that I was interested in, but under Supported MPEG Formats for Encoding and Decoding, it says:MPEG-2: 704x480 pixels, 60 fields/sec, NTSC . Shouldn't it be 720 and not 704?

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products/dvr_features_specifications.htm

[BJ_M]

the matrox will capture to seperate video and audio streams - the audio stream is always captured as pcm anyway ... its only multiplexed (interleaved) if you capture in AVI or DV .

it can do both cbr and vbr encoding but only if you move up to systems costing 10,000k or more do you get things like 3 pass real time vbr ..

most comercial dvd are done in cbr anyway .. as cbr doesnt mean the data rate stays the same but means the VBV buffer is feed the same rate .

pc 's dont really care if the VBV buffer underflows or overflows but set top boxs do .. and is the cause of a lot (*well some - they are many others) of problems with bad playback .

to see if your stream is overflowing the buffer takes some specialized hardware or software ..

[cubsfan45]

Can you explain the VBV buffers in some more detail and also what sorts of problems it might cause when playing back on a stand alone? But overall, say that people want me to convert VHS, DV, etc... for them to DVD, as a business, that the MATROX is the way to go? I'm looking for the most efficient method possible.

[SLK001]

Because of the way the KFIR encoding chip implements the standard, the 8 black pixels on each side of the display are not encoded, thus 720-8x2=704. 704x480 is a valid DVD resolution. This card, like all that I have seen, cannot implement a very good VBR because of the nature of the encode. For this reason, I always capture at a high BR, then transcode using CCE to a more "variable" VBR. This, of course, takes more time (but I have the time). If DVD-COMPLIANT VIDEO is checked, CCE will convert your video to 720x480. However, you CAN import your captures directly into any authoring program (at 704x480 resolution). It is just that you won't be able to squeeze as much on your DVD-R.

This card encodes both the video and the audio (in MPEG1-Layer 2 format) simultaneously, so I have never had an A/V sync issue.

This is off the top of my head, but add the MPEG1-Layer 2 audio to your list for the NTSC DVD standard. I seem to remember that MPEG2 was a part of the PAL DVD standard and the encoding for DVD-Audio (but don't quote me).

[cubsfan45]

You are right in the fact that MPEG-2 is a standard in PAL. I live in the United States though and the NTSC DVD players are not required to support MPEG-2 audio.

[BJ_M]

if you like to read - read this ,, its cached on google so a re-post of it would be nice before lost ..
some of its a little out of date - but not much .. mpeg encoding goes way back ..
MPEG-2 Frequently Asked Questions List

[SLK001]

What does this mean?

most comercial dvd are done in cbr anyway .. as cbr doesnt mean the data rate stays the same but means the VBV buffer is feed the same rate

I have YET to see a commercial DVD that was encoded using CBR encoding.

For the record, ALL set-top players read a DVD at a constant 26.16Mbps. With the 8/16 encoding of the raw data, this translates to 13.08Mbps of data being presented to the read buffers. There is 2Mbps of error correction and 1Mbps of navigation data, leaving 10.08Mbps of data presented to the program buffers. This is the MAXIMUM bitrate that a DVD can have.

[BJ_M]

SLK001 - you are bang on with the data rate (and on multiplexed program streams also) ..

but,
what i was refering to was the VBV buffer : MPEG concept defined in ISO/IEC 13818-2 (MPEG-2, Annex C)
which employs a fixed size buffer to handle the transition of
the channel bit rate to the rapidly flucuating coded bit rate of
individual MPEG pictures. The scope of the VBV is only within a sequence.
The VBV is built upon a framework of several axioms of decoder behavious
which are unfortunately not very well described in the spec.
These include:

display pictures have known durations, but the time to download
the corresponding coded bits into the VBV varies. This time is
dependent on the bitrate of the delivery and the coded size of
the picture being delivered to the VBV. For example, I frames
will take an average of 4 picture periods to download, whereas
B pictures will take half an average picture period.

all coded pictures are not equal in size. Ratios of 15:5:2
are common for I, P, and B pictures respectively.

a picture is decoded instantenously in the VBV model, yet a real-world
decoder will account for the time it takes to decode a picture by
increasing the size of the VBV buffer.

a B picture is displayed almost as soon as it is decoded.
An I or P picture is not displayed until the next I or P picture
is decoded. This is known as the reorder delay.

the first vbv_delay of a sequence is arbitrary, but is usually
kept large. From there on, subsequent vbv_delay values are
directly related to the coded size of a pictures and the interval of
the picture being displayed while a picture is being decoded.


yes - we do accualy make a lot of commercial dvd's as CBR , though if you look at the data rate with M-Probe it doesnt always look like it .. AI is a good example - at first glance you may think its was done with VBR but in fact it was done at 3920 cbr , but i am always fooling with the headers and of course as i stated before = cbr doesnt mean the bit rate stays constant ..

CONSTANT BIT RATE

Attribute of bitstream where the number of bits delivered to
the MPEG System buffer (STD) and/or Video Buffer Verifier
( VBV) is constant within when measured over
each picture period.

VBR

There are three easily confused definitions of VBR, each however
is viable depending on which layer it is being measured over.

At the lowest layer, a VBR video stream varies over the duration of a
sequence.

At the program layer, a program stream consisting of several
concatenated sequences, each with different bitrates, is considered
a variable rate stream. The bitstreams are sequence-wise constant.
This has important implications for the MPEG video decoder, whose
buffer (VBV) regulates data flucuations within a
smaller time window (cononically around 0.25 seconds).

To the user way at the top, the fact that the bit rate from one
program to another may differ radically, would be considered
variable bit rate.

[pacoreguenga]

Maybe you should try out Canopus Systems' DVRexRT Pro analog/digital/component capture card ($5,000.00 plus a powerful PC like those from BOXX computers) with mpg2 rt vbr encoding.
Or a Canopus MVR1000 ($699.00) vbr mpg2 rt analog capture card.
Or maybe a Canopus Amber ($1200.00) vbr mpg2 dv capture/transcode.

All of them work very well. I've had many Pinnacle products in the past and believe me, Canopus beat them all!

[oldfart13]

Of course, you could always just buy a standalone DVD recorder like the popular Panasonic E20 or it's update the E30. Works just like a VCR and cheap Vivastar disks work great in it. It you want to go the computer route, it's (unfortunately) much more complicated...

[pacoreguenga]

That's right. the E20 costs $1,300.00 here in Mexico.

[oldfart13]

On eBay (USA) the going rate is under $600US for an E20. Panasonic Canada still lists them on their website at $2,200 CAN! I can buy them in Canada though for about $670 US and have the unit shipped right to my door.

[savvysoft]

Wow, $770 (from a Yahoo shopping search) gets you the HS20 with the added ability to input from a DV camcorder and burn DVDs. This is ceertainly much cheaper than a commercial service (or a very inexpensive way to *start* a commercial service).

And it sounds like it's a whole lot faster than rolling your own on a computer, whether recording from DV or VHS, which requires time to record the avi file, convert the avi file, and burn the SDVD (3-5 times longer than real-time) (and this assumes using a CD-R instead of a DVD burner). As someone who uses a laptop for my main machine, my options for real time mpeg2 in hardware appear limited, and given the file sizes involved, capturing DV requires too much drive space (about 60 gig per hour) to not have real time encoding (well, I could capture 5 minutes, convert, capture 5 minutes, convert, and so on, but that would take even longer).

Am I missing something here? Do the DVDs created not work on other players?

[savvysoft]

I wonder if anyone has tried this: my camcorder also comes with a cable that looks like a thin earphone jack on one end and has 3 composite rca-type plugs on the other end (1 video 2 audio). If I use that cable, plugging the 3 RCA's into a Dazzle Bridge, and then connect the Dazzle tot he PC via Firewire, will that give me smaller, more managable AVI file sizes?