VCD Mpeg files too big

[thewhiteswan]

I have followed the guide in the newbie section on fittin a 90 min movie onto a VCD. My problem is that although TMPGEnc calulates correct sizes (3 Mpeg files all calculate to 33% of a CDR-80 min) when I try to write the files to a VCD using Nero 5.5 my CDR get spat out with a "your disk is not big enough" message. Nero wants to write over 85 mins worth.

My understanding was that for the VCD format 800MB would fit on an 80min CD (normally 700MB). Was I just dreaming? Or have I missed something?

Any advice appreciated

[geek rock]

it might be worth re-muxing the files in TMPGENC as "video CD (non standard)". if they still don't fit in nero after re-muxing, try doing it in VCDeasy.

Mark

[gll99]

You didn't say what size your mpeg is coming out of tmpeg.

If its slightly over 800 mb it still may fit but if its 815 and over its too big.
These sizes are estimates. If you used a variable bitrate VBR or Constant Quality Bitrate (still VBR) then the size of the file will depend on the amount of action or movement in the video. Many of us use movies with a widescreen look (Black Bars at top and Bottom) If you actually black those out using the frame masking tools within tmpg you will gain a bit on the size cause the encoder won't work those constant areas much (no noise ). If you have used a full size option it will take more space. If you have a different framerate ie 29.97 instead of 23.97 as in the templates, it will take more space. If you used a constant bitrate compliant VCD, it will take more space. If you used 224 bits in your audio, it will take more space (My goodness! I'm starting to sound like that comedian (you must be a redneck).

I think you get the point. There are areas you can tweak. Any kind of smoothing filter or noise reduction will reduce the file size a bit. Many people use those but you can lose some crispness in the smaller detail areas.

That is why it's hard to predict the size based on the length of a movie only.

I have tested quite a few movies and got different results just by toying with some of the things I mentioned.

In a worst case scenario, input the mpeg into tmpg mpeg tools under the file menu and use the cut option to trim something like some of the credits.

[thewhiteswan]

The problem doesn't seem to be with TMPGEnc encoding (I'm trying to fit 3 28 or 29 minute episodes onto one disk - so converting to 1000 bitrate @ 192 audio is reducing 300MB files down to about 260MB and hence 3 files should be 780MB for an 80 minute CD)

TMPGEnc is doing a very good job of estimating the file size. My query is really around Nero. When dragging the files onto the VCD it still assumes only 700MB will fit on an 80 CD. I had assumed that VCD was supposed to be burnt in a different way (different error checking or something???) that allowed 800MB to fit on an 80 min CD.

Am I just plain wrong (an I should be using overburnt or 90 min CDs) or is there a setting in Nero that I'm supposed to fiddle with, or is does Nero do a bad job on VCDs?

Ta

[Craig Tucker]

If you encoded the files at 1000kbps they are now non standard and are no longer considered VCD format by nero, what you will be creating is an XVCD. If you drag these files across into a VCD compilation nero should complain about them not being the correct format. What do you do at this point?.

You should ignore the compliancy check and let nero burn them as they are, this way they should fit. One thing I can think of that is causing your problem is that you are letting nero reencode the files to VCD compliant and hence bumping the filesize back up, and also imparing the quality, nero is a crap encoder. If you are'nt letting nero reencode then you can ignore this post.

Craig

[thewhiteswan]

I'm telling Nero to ignore the non standard encoding and leave the files as is. But it's still saying I'm only allowed 700MB...

[thewhiteswan]

Further Info:

If I pull the original file into Nero (the 286 MB one) obviously Nero does not query the compliance and on the "scale bar" at the bottom of the screen already shrinks the file size down to about 260MB. Which is as well and good.

However when I drag the 255 MB re-encoded file (Nero prompts do I want to re-encode for compliance - I say no) the file size on the scale remains at 255 MB. Hence it seems that Nero only gives you the extra 100MB on an 80 min CD if it recognises the MPeg files to be in standard VCD format.

If I let Nero re-encode the file size will go up anyway. Am I stuffed?

[gll99]

No nero accepts non compliant and gives you the right space.
If I understand correctly you want to load all 3 files and are overrunning the 800 mb boundary.

How and with what are you reading the filesize. 1024 per meg or 1000 per meg.

It would make a difference in the total.

[gll99]

What I said previously may need clarification.

Nero and Many other apps report a meg in 2 different ways. Just like hd manufacturers with GIG where 40gig drive may be also 39.5.

1024 or 1000 kbytes can both be reported as 1 meg.

When you load from the nero file browser to max size (these are reported in 1000 kbyte equivalent so more mB reported for the same data) and look at the bottom timeline and its at 80 min then look at the folder called mpegav you will see the size reported in 1024 equivalent bytes. So the total file(s) size may only report 730 or so mb. That's not the whole story obviously because that would not account for all the size difference (only about .976). There are folder structures to maintain and the other info it contains. Clicking off the cdi option will save a few kbytes unless your player needs it.

Nero isn't doing anyone a favor here by somehow compressing and giving you more space or not. There could be a bit of overhead that I don't know about in the secondary folders but that will not affect the mpeg itself.

What saves you the space (700 to 800) is because of the way the data is written. Video data does not need the save protection and check bits as regular data does. Hence mode 1 versus mode 2 storage.


Look at the total in the mpegav folder in the Nero window. When it gets to roughly 730mb your 80 min disk is probably full.

[thewhiteswan]

Ok to try and be precise - My original files are recorded on a Terapin VCD recorder directly from a VHS tape. Then the .DAT files are pulled of the resulting VCD using VCDGear to .MPG files on the hard disk. These files form my source and are as follows:
286 MB (300,792,996 bytes)
281 MB (295,129,408 bytes)
291 MB (305,162,116 bytes)
Total = 858 MB

These obviously won't fit on a single VCD, so using TMPGEnc I down the bitrate to 1000, and the three files become

255 MB (267,878,404 bytes)
250 MB (262,846,468 bytes)
259 MB (271,769,604 bytes)
Total = 764 MB

If I attempt to pull all three of the original files into Nero VCD the MB scale at the bottom reads approximately 765MB (therefore I am assuming that the MB scale already takes into account the space saving the mode 2 data recording gives you hence it displays 760MB rather than the 858 the three files total to)

If I pull all three of the re-encoded files into Nero VCD and click "Turn off standard complience" then the scale reads 770 MB approx.

So I can appreciate there may be different ways of reporting the file size, but I don't understand why Nero would report different types of MPEG files in different ways using the same VCD template (i.e. Mode 2 recording).

If I just being dense, thank you for your patience
Ta

[sdispun]

For VCD compliant (1.15Mb/s), max HDD file size is 808 MB
For non compliant, surprisingly size comes down to 710mb (714 with overburned option)

And here's the answer..
90 mins w/192 audio non compliant on to 80min/700CD, given the HDD max size @ 714MB, your bitrate should max out at 891.

reencode @ 1000 (assume file size > 714MB) will never get on 80/700CD.

[gll99]

Disregard file size for a minute.

One more question.

Load 1 of the files in Nero, as a vcd and leave it non-standard.

Now look at the duration in the track window. (How many Min and sec.)

Now look at the bottom. For a VCD it should be showing a minute time bar not a Mbyte bar.

Are the minutes of occupied time reported by nero the same as the duration time?

[thewhiteswan]

Mmm... My Nero (ver 5.5.8.2) always shows MB on the bottom scale even when I have selected VCD for the new project. But having said that the duration in the track window is showing as 28:45:38 (which incidentally is 59 seconds longer than the original complient file if I drag that in).

Is there a setting in Nero to change the scale to mins?