Is it worthwhile to tranfer VHS to DVD for $?

[ViperXT]

Me and a friend were talking about transfering VHS onto DVD for money. He has access to a DVD-R drive so we don't need to pay for that, just the blanks. I have a WinTV go card that gets good quality captures but I would not mind upgrading to something better. I don't need hardware MPEG encoding though, I prefer software. Since my TV card only has RF and composite video will this hinder my captures, or is VHS going to look almost as good as it would on s-video. Also, since 352 x 480 is a valid DVD resolution we could capture at that and get better quality video(because VHS would not benefit from 720 x 480 resolution, plus there should be fewer compression artifacts at a given bit rate). Do any of you think this is worthwhile? I don't see any other companies around here that offer this service. How much could I charge per disc(Canadian $)?

[karen0302]

I don't know about how much to charge, but I have been moving my VHS library to DVD for several months now. Let me address one point of your post from my experience.

If I were paying to have this transfer done and the service only offered 352x240 as the resolution for transfer, I would never use that service. There is a huge difference between 352x240 and 720x480 even when coming from VHS tape. 352x240 is fine if you are making VCDs but for DVD go with the 720x480 resolution.

Karen

[ViperXT]

hey, hey!
You thought I said 352 x 240!? For that quality i would make more money tap dancing! No, what I said was 352 x 480, you know the CVD resolution. From my captures even satellite TV looks nearly identical at 720 x 480 and 352 x 480, the only difference is that I need more bit rate to ensure a good picture with the higher resolution.

[Barnabas]

Steve Kittlesen does that service, so you might check his web page for some prices, and needed equipment to do it right.

http://easyvideo.kittelsen.com/

[ViperXT]

looks like the pros use 352 x 480 for theirs too. One question, can I use MPEG audio on a DVD or is AC-3 or PCM required?

[denoneil]

Only PAL DVD are spec'd to support MPEG Layer II Audio. NTSC Players must use AC3 or PCM.

[ViperXT]

Do most DVD authoring packages offer 2 channel ac3 encoding? Because if I had the use PCM it would lower the video bitrate considerably. What is a good bit rate for 2 channel ac3? I figured with an audio bitrate of 224 kb/s and a 2 hour movie I could get an average bit rate of 4867 kb/s which if encoded using 2 pass VBR with 352 x 480 should look very good. And if it was shorter than that, a higher bitrate could be used. Can anyone recommend some good authoring software? I don't want to spend alot of money but I want something that is easy to use and can create good looking menus.

[denoneil]

Very few authoring packages offer ac3 encoding. Dolby controls that a little. A stand alone ac3 encoder runs about $5-600, not including the authoring app. The least expensive authoring app I know of that does include one is ReelDVD... for about $1000-1200.
192-224 is a normal bitrate for ac3.
Ulead's DVD Workshop does not include an ac3 encoder (PCM Only.) However, its easy to use, inexpensive, and quite flexible for the price... $250 or so.

[ViperXT]

Thanks for the info. Since I am going to be spending quite a bit of money on software should I bother upgrading from TMPGenc? I have always found this to be a great piece of software and the only negative for me is the slow encoding on my p3 600. However, this shouldn't be an issue, because we are doing the capturing and encoding on a p4 2.2. I know that CCE is much faster but I hate the interface and the quality doesn't seem any better.

[thxkid]

My god if you spend over $5-600!!, why not just buy the Panasonic DMR E-20 DVD-R and DVD-Ram Recorde,r it makes great copies in the 2 hr mode (5000 bitrate) its dolby digital 2.0 and the 1 hr (9500 bitrate) is Fantastic. I have the DMR E-20 and DMR E-10($400) and I am making perfect and edited copies of VHS, SVHS, HI8mm, Beta, DVD with perfect results, the finished DVD-R's have played back in any DVD players I have tried them in and I am getting blanks now for $1.60 each on line.
Plus the ram discs are great for editing down your source material, use the XP(1hr) mode and you can go clear to 3rd generation copies before you even start to see a difference in your product.

[leebo]

The high end DVDit package encodes AC3 audio, and cost less than ReelDVD.

Here in the States, Kodak is offering DVD services (through drug store chains) for $40 for two hours on a disc. Turn around time is about two weeks.

Although the Panasonic set top DVD recorder can't make fancy menus, it does do DVD in real time. If your customers are looking for low cost transfers, the Panasonic is the way to go, since you won't have to put days into making each disc.

If you go the authoring route, you'll have to charge a high price to make any money. But if your clients want Hollywood type DVD's, thats the way to go.

[denoneil]

I guess it all depends on what you're willing to spend and what level of quality and flexibility you're looking for.

[LloydAZ]

Do most DVD authoring packages offer 2 channel ac3 encoding? Because if I had the use PCM it would lower the video bitrate considerably. What is a good bit rate for 2 channel ac3? I figured with an audio bitrate of 224 kb/s and a 2 hour movie I could get an average bit rate of 4867 kb/s which if encoded using 2 pass VBR with 352 x 480 should look very good. And if it was shorter than that, a higher bitrate could be used. Can anyone recommend some good authoring software? I don't want to spend alot of money but I want something that is easy to use and can create good looking menus.

I use Dazzle's DVD Complete which came with the Hollywood DV-Bridge. It's very easy to use and makes nice menus as well as labels, jewel-case inserts and DVD jacket inserts. Your audio choices are MP2 or PCM. The full software package only costs $99 (or $29 if you are upgrading from the simple version included with the Hollywood DV-Bridge.)

As for MP2 audio, the DVD players in both my roommates and my laptops play the movies fine with MP2 audio as well as my X-Box. However, my JVC standalone player will play the disc, but the audio cuts in-and-out during play. If I record in PCM it will play fine on that machine.

Lloyd

[denoneil]

PCM Audio & AC3 support is required for an NTSC DVD Player, although many will also play MPEG Audio. MPEG Audio support is only required in PAL DVD set-tops.

[VideoMann]

The going rate for VHS to DVD at 720x480 is $50-100 per tape. If that is worth it to you considering the time you spend encoding then go for it. If you offer anything less than 720x480 you may not sound convincing to customers because customers actually expect nothing less than DVD standard regarless how satisfied you are with less or even if you can show it looks the same.

[Valnar]

I do this all the time at home with my Pioneer DVR-104. I capture at 640x480, render it to MPEG2 at 352x480 with a bitrate around 3000-3500 so I can get a lot on one DVD-R. Looks great. If you only capture at 352x480, it won't look as good. Capture as big as you can without dropping frames, with a vertical of 480.

I have several VHS tapes now on DVD-R at 352x480 and it looks great. I use DVD Workshop. Now, I also have a Pioneer DVD player (it would be dumb to buy any other brand) as it plays everything perfectly regardless of standards.

It takes awhile to whittle away at my collection, but I'm slowly getting there, and that's with a P4 2.4Ghz!

Robert

[ViperXT]

I am going to start by doing VCD or SVCD only and if i get enough business I will look into the DVD authoring. What would you say is a good quality and price for SVCD. I figure I will make sample discs to lend out for people to test compatibility for VCD, SVCD and CVD, that way they won't complain if their players can't play the discs. What would be a good bitrate for the different formats? I figure for VCD I will keep it 100% standard. For SVCD I will probably use 2250 kb/s 2 pass VBR which will get about 45 minutes per disc. For CVD I will probably use the same rate.

[Valnar]

I think if you start swaying away from the standards, people won't give you the business. Everybody knows what a DVD is. They won't bash down your door for a VCD or SVCD. Any computer you buy from Gateway these days can do that. And to tell you the truth, any business based on making DVD-R's for people will only last a couple years.

Also, if somebody gives you a tape they made of their dog/kid playing the yard, and want you to convert it, chances are it will be 2 hours long. Also, not all DVD players play VCD/SVCD. DVD-R has a better chance.

For me, DVD Workshop is good enough and MPEG audio is fine since I have a Pioneer player. If you're doing it for money, I'd fork out the $$$ for an authoring package that does AC3.

Good luck,
Robert

[dcapp1]

Isn't what your talking about illegal because even if you take your vhs movies and sell them as dvds, most vhs movies are protected by copyright laws.

[leebo]

most vhs movies are protected by copyright laws

Not home movies of Junior.

As for test DVD's, many DVD-R's have problems AFTER the first 90 minutes.
A 10 minute test disc won't prove anything.

[Trik]

Would you be doing this local only or from tapes shipped from all over?

[boss]

what about compatibility problems- only 70% of dvd players can play dvd-r's. you'll only have 70% of the market to work with!

[SatStorm]

The compatibility is more today than ever for DVD-R...
The problem is that certain well known brands keep not support the format... The problem is great in US/UK and start rising in EE also...
But a net search always saves you the trouble. If you know that alternative of course..

My friend, unfortunatelly, this world is full of people not having time investigating things. So, if they learn something, is very difficult to show them later alternatives...

If you want to do bussiness (VHS to DVD conversion), then go the Orthodox way in low prices. Go get a philips DVD+ realtime recorder and a TBC SVHS VCR and start converting in low prices.
A good price is the DVD disc cost X 10. If for example a DVD costs 1$, sell your service for 10$.
Less money per costumer that way, but much more costumers because of the low prices...

This is my opinion, other people may have other!

[energy80s]

The big problem with DVD authoring is that there are no standard DVD recorders on the market! The most compatible format is DVD-R and that won't play on many DVD players. I think it would be hard to try to market a service that is still very incompatible. I suppose that only thing you can say is that at least the files on the DVD will be easily transferable onto a proper DVD disc whenever standardised recorders become available (probably in about 3 or 4 years) and can be played on any computer with a DVD-ROM drive. Just because someone's current DVD machine will play your DVD-R disc, there is a good chance that another machine they may buy won't and you will leave yourself open to a lot of grief in the future! As for charges, work out how many hours it takes to make each disc and decide on a proper wage per hour for yourself, then multiply the 2 figures and sell the product for this price. I used to transfer old 8mm movies onto video so I do know a lot of the problems that can happen.