Star Wars Conversions-Hit me with your best shot...

[DJRumpy]

Mythos, just use AVISynth. It will let you splice at any frame number, instead of waiting for a key frame. The output is flawless (or at least as good as your input anyway )

Before you do anything drastric with your drives, consider just converting one drive (the one you encode/capture on) to NTFS. This way you can ease yourself into NTFS, and system recovery isn't complicated unecessarily.

There is also a web site out there, and I'm hoping someone can plug it, because I can't remember the URL (maybe a google search). It rates the media from various different vendors. It's user driven, which I find much more valuable than vendor sites. I stumbled on it once, searching for info about 900MB CD-R media. I haven't found it since...

[menace]

I realize I have strayed from the original topic but here goes...

Is there any chance that the reason no programs (except spruce-up) will author these files is because of the 3:2 pulldown (29.97 when playback) setting in tmpgenc? I captured 2 vhs (making of star wars and unauthorized story) and they authored no problem.

settings from laserdisc
tried IVTC using virtualdub before going to tmpgenc and IVTC in tmpgenc--conclusion, tmpgenc IVTC appeared to catch more
23.976 (29.97 when playback)
4350 VBR average--2 pass
8000 maximum (although with bitrate viewer it does jump to 9450 )
audio is mp2 224kb/s
resulting file 4.168GB

dazzle reports build/mux failure (i checked avi's for bad frames=0)
ulead dvd report number of chapter frames exceed total frames??
dvdit--can't read this file (only says this on chapter points--accepts the file just fine otherwise)
spruceup (limited menu--no sounds ) seems to work

[vhelp]

hi menace..

first, I think that many peoples here have lost their way w/ TMPG and
a few odd and ends features.

Example, you and me both are having similar problems. I think that you
are suffering from the TMPG jimmy-jam's.. when tsumi decided to screw
us around a bit, thanks for MPEG Liciences, and his own personal agenda.
Just my observations since TMPGEnc v12 and v12A

Basically, I think the reason you are having trouble w/ autoring is something
to do w/ the Versions of TMPG you are using, and it's a matter of finding
out (via trial and error) which one tsumi DIDN'T take out the feature to
(or brake it, to an extent)

Example, in TMPG v2.53, I cannot:
* Encode an MPEG-2 clip, then
* take that same clip and run it through DVD2AVI v1.76 and make a D2V
.. file out of it, and then re-open it in another app, or even back into DVD2AVI.

But, if I encode w/ TMPG v12A, I can make a perfect D2V from the final
MPEG-2 encode. Doesn't matter what king of template I use (ie, DVD)
and whatever GOP/Matrix I use either.

But, in TMPG v2.53 (and quite possibly higher) the d2v compliancy is gone.
So, you might want to factor that into your equation to your problems.

Try working your way DOWN in version of TMPG till you can get a proper
author. My tip for you (and anyone else) is to use the d2v route that I've
ben using. If it's successful, you know at which point TMPG was still
good for these things.

I think that right now, the majority of peoples are ablivious to this issue,
and blame it all on the other app. It's TMPG - - rather, the version used.

-vhelp

[menace]

On a whim I left star wars at 29.97 as per djrumpy's idea "if its going back to 29.97 anyways, why change it" and sure enough it authored like a champ.

On a laserdisc resolution note--when i capture and then subsequently encode at 720 x 480 am i taking a loss since the laserdisc has a max resolution of 544x480? Should my final encode be 480x480--will this meet dvd authoring requirements I wonder? will it look better? Thoughts?

(Have I beat this post to death ? are mythos and others still trying or am I all that is left ?)

[EddyH]

menace

with the gradual sync thing i think its just a case of how bad you want the encode if theres no apps can handle it properly... in the end theres no better judge than your own eyes going on changes youve made

had a film that i wanted on vcd pretty bad.. on PAL vcd no less, and it was starting out as NTSC (which re-encoded well enough, i'm just picky ). It's on DVD now and even have an easy-converted 24fps dvdrip version, but at the time I made the troublesome version only hard to come by vhs bootlegs were available. (It's an old, recently remastered film, not a new-ish release BTW.. and so wasnt telecined very well).
Tried to let the software use it's own judgement on IVTCing and where resynching should happen but it just couldnt get it right.. in the end i must have ended up splitting it to 7 or more separate extra-super-quality Indeo (yes, i know, "stupid".. was but a youngling..) files where the sync changed, IVTC setup differently through a process of jerk-elimination and repeat viewings for each. Then recombination and encoding after, with a 98% smooth video (compared to maybe 20%).

telecine.... evil.
encoding at 30fps.... gooood

[SV_Trinity]

I did a search but didn't find an answer... Hope this hasn't been posted already.

For those people who have the LaserDiscs, can you post the CHAPTER stops for all three movies? I only have the LD's on DV now.

Thanks.

[flaninacupboard]

i was busy compliling a list, until i realised i'm PAL, so they'll be totally different! doh!

[DJRumpy]

Not necessarily. A frame number is a frame number is a frame number. It doesn't matter what speed your at. A proper conversion will simply slow the mateial down. The frame numbers will all be exactly the same. You can use those to indicate chapter points.

menace, 480x480 isn't a valid DVD resolution. Your only decent choices are 720x480, 704x480, or 352x480. Your working with composite, or svcd inputs, so your input isn't going to perfect. I would capture at 720, or 704 horizontal just to help avoid the softening affects that seem to be common in LD conversions.

[menace]

Thanks!

As far as chapter stops, I have all three special edition pre-lucas-ified sitting in front of me--there are no time indicators though to tell you how far along in the movie you are, jut chapter numbers and names--Do you still want them? if so I will type them out as they are being captured tonight.

Also, solved my sound problems (separate post) by running the audio through my sony receiver first it reduces the line-in volume significantly enough to make it sound very good. hopefully these last posts will be my last posts on this topic because I am growing tired (yes its true!) of star wars and am eager to move onto my indy collection

[Mythos2002]

Congratulations on getting the discs done. I envy you as I'm only beginning. Yes, the chapter stops would be appreciated.

I'm probably going to buy another 80 gig drive and convert it to NTFS to make sure I have enough space.

Mythos

[menace]

tell you what, rather than type them all in I will scan the jacket covers and email you the jpegs showing the chapter stops. if anyone else would like them I'm sure mythos would be happy to send them to you just kidding--PM me and i will send them to you (this offer will expire in 2 days)

[MJPollard]

Congratulations on getting the discs done. I envy you as I'm only beginning. Yes, the chapter stops would be appreciated.

Mythos,

I don't have the chapter stops from the laserdisc -- I'm converting mine from the SE VHS tapes (widescreen, of course) -- but that doesn't matter 'cause I'm creating my own chapter stops anyway. If you like, I can make a list of the stops for Star Wars when I get home from work. (I made 24 chapters, because there's so much going on that a handful of 'em just didn't seem to be enough. I'll also list the times when I made the stops; you'll undoubtedly have to adjust them for your own captured files, but they should at least get you on the right track.)

[MJPollard]

Since several people have asked about chapter stops, I thought I'd go ahead and post the chapter list I created for the Special Edition of Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope. Notes will follow the list.

00:00:00.00 - 1. Main Titles (duh!)
00:01:57.03 - 2. Imperial Attack (camera pans down to Tatooine)
00:08:54.00 - 3. The Dune Sea of Tatooine (Artoo and Threepio on Tatooine)
00:15:38.27 - 4. The Moisture Farm (Jawa sandcrawler approaches farm)
00:19:40.00 - 5. The Hologram (Threepio dipped in lubrication bath)
00:27:11.09 - 6. Landspeeder Search (Owen calling for Luke)
00:32:31.27 - 7. Tales of a Jedi Knight (Ben and Luke in Ben's home)
00:39:03.04 - 8. Desert Massacre (discovery of ruined Jawa sandcrawler)
00:42:46.02 - 9. Mos Eisley Spaceport (landspeeder approaches Mos Eisley)
00:44:48.26 - 10. "This place can be a little rough" (Ben and Luke enter cantina)
00:47:38.00 - 11. A Nice, Easy Charter (Han introduces himself)
00:54:10.08 - 12. Avoiding the Imperials (Ben and Luke approach docking bay)
00:59:09.04 - 13. Lightsaber Training (Luke training with lightsaber)
01:03:07.05 - 14. The Death Star (Millennium Falcon exits hyperspace)
01:12:28.02 - 15. Rescuing the Princess (Luke, Han, and Chewie head to detention block)
01:19:04.20 - 16. The Trash Compactor (Han falls into trash compactor)
01:24:55.03 - 17. Tractor Beam and Corridor Chase (Ben approaches tractor beam controls)
01:29:50.23 - 18. Lightsaber Duel (Ben encounters Darth Vader)
01:33:53.25 - 19. TIE Fighter Attack (Han and Luke man the Falcon's guns)
01:38:00.25 - 20. The Rebel Base (Falcon approaches Yavin)
01:41:18.28 - 21. Preparing for Battle (Luke confronts Han)
01:44:56.06 - 22. The Battle of Yavin (X-wings take off from Yavin base)
01:58:22.02 - 23. Victory Celebration (Han and Luke enter great hall)
02:00:06.28 - 24. End Titles (duh!)

NOTES
1. The video was captured from the widescreen VHS release, but the timings should apply equally to the full-screen release (as the only difference between the two is the framing).
2. I edited the video to include 1 second of black at the start, followed immediately by the 20th Century Fox fanfare music.
3. Most of these chapter stops are after optical "wipes" between scenes. I marked the chapter immediately after the last of the wipe effect was off the screen. (It's hard to explain, so I hope you got it!)

Take these into account when creating the chapter stops on your own version; the time codes will undoubtedly be slightly different (especially the tenths of a second!). Also, obviously, you can add more or fewer chapters than I did; I figured this was a pretty good number to allow me to jump around to various interesting points in the video.

Good luck!


Martin

[vhelp]

hey MJPollard.. Tanx!!

Cool posting of this list. I like very much and will make me a copy as I
write this post, for later inclusion in my encodes of Star Wars..
..should I EVER get my hands on the WS version. Sooner or later, I'm
bound ta find me a WS copy, and I'd love to apply your list.

If you ever do get around to it, please DO the same for the remaing
Star Wars.. that I would really appreciate, as I'm sure others will.
I know I could do this myself if I had the tapes, but since I don't and you
already went through ALL the trouble (thanks) I won't have to.

So, thank you for your efforts thus far. Now, ta find those WS versions..

Oh, and those that have already encoded some SW's, please do try and
post your results - small samples. I would (and others too) like to see
how far you all have come w/ these SW (and other movies) transfers to
CDR or DVDR/RW media.

So, please do post some sample clip ??

Thank you all again, and keep the FORCE with you.
-vhelp

[MJPollard]

hey MJPollard.. Tanx!!

Cool posting of this list. I like very much and will make me a copy as I
write this post, for later inclusion in my encodes of Star Wars..
..should I EVER get my hands on the WS version. Sooner or later, I'm
bound ta find me a WS copy, and I'd love to apply your list.

Well, the timings should apply equally to the full-frame versions, since the only difference between the two is the framing. I should've mentioned that before; I just edited the post to do so.

If you ever do get around to it, please DO the same for the remaing
Star Wars.. that I would really appreciate, as I'm sure others will.
I know I could do this myself if I had the tapes, but since I don't and you
already went through ALL the trouble (thanks) I won't have to.

Funny you should mention it, 'cause I'm doing The Empire Strikes Back right now. I'll definitely post the lists for it and Return of the Jedi as I complete them.


Martin

[vhelp]

MJPollard..

Thanks dude. Take your time - no rush.
-vhelp

[MJPollard]

Okay, here it is: my chapter list for the Special Edition of Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. Notes will follow the list.

00:00:00.00 - 1. Main Titles (duh!)
00:01:56.00 - 2. The Ice Planet Hoth (camera pans down to Star Destroyer)
00:08:18.17 - 3. The Wampa's Lair (ice cave with Luke hanging upside down)
00:12:56.22 - 4. Vision of Obi-Wan (Luke sees vision of Obi-Wan)
00:18:18.16 - 5. The Imperial Probe (Rebels discover Imperial probe droid)
00:21:22.00 - 6. The Evacuation of Hoth (Rebels preparing for evacuation)
00:25:47.17 - 7. Imperial Walkers (walkers first spotted on horizon)
00:33:35.09 - 8. Escape in the Millennium Falcon (Han tries to get Leia to transport)
00:36:48.20 - 9. The Asteroid Field (Falcon evading Star Destroyer)
00:40:33.27 - 10. Arrival on Dagobah (Luke's X-wing approaches Dagobah)
00:46:05.04 - 11. Luke's Nocturnal Visitor (Luke sets up camp)
00:50:09.28 - 12. Han Solo and the Princess (Threepio complaining about Falcon)
00:52:13.18 - 13. Darth Vader and the Emperor (Vader's ship avoids asteroids)
00:53:53.24 - 14. Jedi Master Revealed (Luke at Yoda's house)
00:57:13.15 - 15. Mynock Cave (TIE fighters dropping bombs)
01:00:30.29 - 16. The Training of a Jedi Knight (Luke climbing vine)
01:05:20.29 - 17. Attacking a Star Destroyer (bounty hunters on Vader's ship)
01:07:44.20 - 18. Yoda and the Force (Luke balancing Yoda on one foot)
01:12:57.01 - 19. Imperial Starfleet Deployed (Capt. Needa flies to Vader's ship)
01:17:57.02 - 20. City in the Clouds (Falcon approaches Cloud City)
01:22:27.14 - 21. Training Interrupted (Luke prepares to leave Dagobah)
01:25:09.27 - 22. Betrayal at Bespin (Leia pacing in their quarters)
01:28:48.03 - 23. Deal With the Dark Lord (Chewie tortured by sonic waves)
01:33:16.01 - 24. Carbon Freeze (Vader examines carbon freezing chamber)
01:37:59.13 - 25. Darth Vader's Trap (Luke wanders down Cloud City corridor)
01:41:15.27 - 26. Departure of Boba Fett (stormtroopers surrounded and captured)
01:43:21.20 - 27. The Clash of Lightsabers (Luke/Vader duel in carbon freeze chamber)
01:46:32.16 - 28. Escape from Cloud City (Leia/Chewie/Lando get into elevator)
01:48:51.08 - 29. Dark Revelation (Luke entering shaft control room)
01:53:11.06 - 30. Luke's Rescue (Leia hears Luke via the Force)
01:59:15.21 - 31. The Rebel Fleet (first shot of Rebel fleet)
02:01:26.01 - 32. End Titles (duh!)

NOTES

1. The video was captured from the widescreen VHS release, but the timings should apply equally to the full-screen release (as the only difference between the two is the framing).
2. I edited the video to include 1 second of black at the start, followed immediately by the 20th Century Fox fanfare music.
3. Most of these chapter stops are after optical "wipes" between scenes. I marked the chapter immediately after the last of the wipe effect was off the screen. (It's hard to explain, so I hope you got it!)

Take these into account when creating the chapter stops on your own versions; the time codes will undoubtedly be slightly different (especially the tenths of a second!). Also, obviously, you can add more or fewer chapters than I did; I figured this was a pretty good number to allow me to jump around to various interesting points in the movie.

Finally, you should be able to make use of this list if you're encoding the original edition, but the timings are, of course, going to be off. Instead, you should go by the description of the start of the particular scene to get the equivalent stops for the original edition.

P.S. - The Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi chapter stops probably won't be posted until some time next week, given the fact that I still need to capture, render, and author it.


Martin

[tjdavis1138]

Great Thread!!

I have tried this with little success in the past. I'm using the Asus tv card to capture and getting some strange video quality issues. The picture seems to jitter and shimmer. Sounds strange I know, but it's the only way I know to describe it. Anyway, I was thinking of buying the Canopus dv capture card. Would most people agree that this is the best way to go? The color issues kind of scare me when dealing with dv.

Thanks,

[flaninacupboard]

tj,
i wouldn't worry about the colour issues (i guess you mean the colour compression, DV is 4:1:1 or so) given that DVD is 4:2:0 and i don't hink you'll be outputting to anything better than DVD, other than DV itself, so there's no problem!

[DJRumpy]

tjdavis1138, make sure you inverse telecine the material if your in NTSC land. It will drastically improve your output. You will need to filter the capture to, with a good temporal smoother. Don't use a 2-d filter on this one, as it blurs the faces to much. I guess the material is just too old, becuase I noticed a much higher loss of detail in the faces when using a 2-d filter.

[tjdavis1138]

I may go with one of the Canopus solutions in the near future.

I used ivtc through avisynth when I converted the huffy files. When I burned the mpeg2 to dvdr it looked just as good as the huffy file did, it's just the inputs on my asus tv card that stink. I get a horizontal shimmer that really annoys me when watching the burned dvdr or the huffy file either one. There is no comparison to my laserdisc player. I have a Pioneer Elite CLD-79 that has fantastic picture quality for a laserdisc run through my Sony 53" HDTV. The Pioneer has a built in TBC and noise reduction, so I though it would look good run through the asus, but I was wrong. I've read over on doom9 and avs forum that many people are getting great results using the asus card so maybe mine is just a lemon.

[flaninacupboard]

TJ,
if i were you i wouldn't leave the LD players' NR circuitry on while capturing. if the signal needs any NR, it is best done after IVTC, so you are working with progressive frames instead of interlaced ones.
A lot of TV-in cards have poor quality, or various weird artifacts. my Canopus ADVC-50 has none of these, and capturing takes roughly 5% CPU usage. neat!

[vhelp]

hi tjdavis1138,

yes, i agree, this is a good thread..

>> I've read over on doom9 and avs forum that many people are getting
>> great results using the asus card so maybe mine is just a lemon

Or, it could just be your VCR, and/or the condition of the VHS TAPE you
have.

I used to like the ATIW for a very long time till I realised the noise issue,
and re-sought the DC10+ (I had previous year) and began re-working with it
and finally got it to work better than my previous experiences w/ it, and
finally gave it a better score (and recommend) for VHS sources. I still
like the ATIW.. however, it may prove better w/ another Motherboard setup
than my current one ECS K7S5A setup (both PC's)

TIP..

If you really want extra bitrate-bang in your final encode, my recommend
would be to capture at 352x480 (minimum) and when you setup for encoding:
* make your other final encoding adjustments.. then..
* cut the boarders off completely, and
* set your final AR to 16:9 (under Video tab)

When you encode, you'll only have the video (no boarders) and if properly
authored.. when you play your CDR or DVDR/RW disk in your DVD player, you
should see the Widescreen (boarders added) by your DVD player, and your
WS view will look better (less pixelation) due to the un-waisted bitrates
on the boarders, even though they are black.. they are still waisted.

I'm only sorry that many peoples have not taken advantage of this TIP
because they are confused about the AR issues as well as the resolution
and other nonsenes about 16:9 vs 4:3 final output. Do yourself a favor,
and ignore what you've read (as I've done) and give the above TIP a go.
You'll thank me later.

-vhelp

[Mythos2002]

This is a great thread. I want to thank everyone for the information and thank Menace and MJPollard for the chapter stops.

This is really exciting because it is a group effort in that we are all sharing information. But at the same time, we are each doing our own captures, encoding, authoring, and burning individually.

Thanks again.
Mythos

[SV_Trinity]

Here are the STAR WARS chapter stops. MENACE scanned the laser art, and I've transcribed the stops here. Thanks to MENACE. I'll do tESB and RotJ later.

STAR WARS CHAPTER INDEX

Side One
1. Beginning of Side One
2. Main Title: A New Hope
3. The Imperial Boarding Party
4. Darth Vader Confronts the Princess
5. Lost in the Desert
6. The Jawas Capture R2-D2
7. Droids for Sale
8. Leia's Private Message
9. Dinner Conversation
10. Attack of the Sand People
11. Obi-Wan Kenobi
12. A Tale of the Past
13. The Death Star
14. A Grisly Find
15. Mos Eisley Spaceport

Side Two
16. The Cantina, a Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy
17. Han Solo
18. Cornered By Greedo
19. The Millenium Falcon
20. Alderaan's Fate
21. Luke's Lightsaber Practice
22. "That's No Moon... It's a Space Station."
23. Infiltrating the Death Star
24. To Rescue a Princess
25. Into the Garbage Chute
26. The Walls Close In
27. Disarming the Tractor Beam
28. Obi-Wan Meets Vader
29. Dogfight

Side Three
30. Han's Boast
31. The Rebel Strategy
32. Han Prepares to Leave
33. Assault on the Death Star
34. Navigating the Trench
35. "Use the Force, Luke."
36. A Hero's Welcome
37. To the Victors Belong the Honors
38. End Credits
39. Interview with George Lucas

[MJPollard]

Here are the STAR WARS chapter stops. MENACE scanned the laser art, and I've transcribed the stops here. Thanks to MENACE. I'll do tESB and RotJ later.

I think I've found a better list than mine. Good job, Trinity, Menace!

Refresh my memory: are these from the Original or Special Edition laserdiscs? If original, which ones (there seem to have been about three dozen different releases)? I have a set that I purchased off eBay, and each only has about a dozen or so stops. I'm thinking that these are from a more recent release, i.e. the last pre-SE ones (the ones with Vader, a stormtrooper, and Yoda for IV, V, and VI)...?

[flaninacupboard]

Well, this weekend saw the completion of a 5-pass VBR encode of Empire in CCE. fantastic. i'm very pleased, a light noise reduction (bar the scene where the probes are launched from the star destroyer, NR made this scene patchy and ugly, and in the end i also lightened it slightly) and it's great. the sound is in synch, and the picture is slightly nicer than the LD because of the NR. New hope is next, i did empire first because there's no subs in it, Jedi is last because it has subs and it's three sides instead of two. i'm going to put up a few screen shots later today, of some of the nicer looking parts.

[Mythos2002]

That's awesome news Flanina. How long did your encode take? Thanks.

Mythos

[wwaag]

Flaninacup.

Could you give a few details on your noise reduction? Thanks.

wwaag

[flaninacupboard]

well, frameserved through our network onto a redundant Athlon 900(the owner was away in France for a rugby match) it took about 18 hours to write the .vaf file and do the five passes.
the noise reduction i used was TMPGenc's built in filter, set to 8 1 10. it makes a big difference in the more static scenes (like lukes training, and in the falcon) and in fast action scenes (the cool snow speeders!!) it's not noticeable, but the encoder seems to like it
My only qualm this time is the really evident colour compression in DV, which basically looks like a really high bitrate DVD. not noticeable on a TV, but not pretty on a monitor.