Star Wars Conversions-Hit me with your best shot...

[Eandtc]

"my AverTV Stereo PCI TV tuner capture card."

This is the 2nd set of captures I've seen made with a $30 capture card, and I can't get over how good they look. Are cheap capture cards really doing that well of a job?

[Mythos2002]

I haven't tested it much since I bought my sound card, but I'm wondering how my GeForce 4 do. The problem I had with it before was the audio being out of sync and a few dropped frames (maybe 6 per hour). That was when I was using the built-in sound card though. I may test it when I have time before I decide on the WinFast TV2000 XP Expert.

Vhelp, I checked out your PC specs and found out you are using the Expert.

Anyway. Those captures that you guys have been putting up recently look really good. I'll have to post some once I get to capturing again.

Mythos

[FulciLives]

Well I have posted a sample CLIP of my STAR WARS capture.

Here is the link: CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD

*** UPDATE ***
Link changed to reflect the fact that I rename the file from STARWARS.MPG to STARWARS.TXT so when you download this file be sure to rename it back to STARWARS.MPG
See my next post in this thread for more clarification

This file is approximately 89.3 MB in size. It is a MPEG file with muxed 2.0 AC-3 audio and is 16x9 widescreen NTSC format.

I used the AviSynth script I reported back on the page before this. So this was processed in total with AviSynth and CCE MPEG encoder.

I use PICVideo MJPEG to capture because my computer is a bit on the slow side and with HuffyUV I will sometimes drop a frame here or there which seems to be related to the slowness of my computer (I only have a P3 650Mhz with 256MB RAM running WinXP Pro). I drop frames like MAD with the 20 setting so I use the 19 setting. I capture at Full D1 resolution which for my capture card is 688x480 for NTSC (you pad 16 on either side to get your standard 720 width thus giving a proper DVD aspect ratio).

I've explored a lot of options with my capture card (an AverTV Stereo which I paid $50.00 USD at CompUSA) and it seems to work best with the Avermedia drivers as opposed to the BTwincap drivers. Also I use PICVideo MJPEG because I think there is something "odd" about the colorspace conversion when using HuffyUV and AviSynth ... I'm not sure if this is an AviSynth issue or a HuffyUV issue. I know of a few other people (people who know what they are doing) that use PICVideo MJPEG on the 20 setting RATHER than use HuffyUV because of colorspace issues. Again I haven't tested HuffyUV all that much since my computer can barely keep up with it but my point is this: something is "goofy" with either HuffyUV or the combination of HuffyUV and AviSynth in terms of colorspace. No such colorspace issue exists when using PICVideo MJPEG with AviSynth and CCE.

As for the Avermedia drivers I used the standard default settings (I'm talking about contrast/brightness and saturation etc.) for this capture (see my second set of pics on the page before this). Those pics come from my first MPEG encode which I did incorrectly (the resize from 4:3 WS to 16x9 WS) which caused interlacing issues (only visible when playing the clip back on a TV). This new second encode, of which the sample CLIP comes from, is using the AviSynth scrip I posted (see page before this) and does not have the interlacing issues, although there is an "odd" thing going on at the very top and bottom of the picture, i.e., where the actual image "meets" the black border. It is not very noticeable and I'm not sure why it is there but it is definately an "artifact" of the 4:3 WS to 16x9 WS conversion.

Please feel free to download this clip (it is about 1 minute and 34 seconds) and let me know what you think of it in terms of quality. If possible use an authoring program to burn it to a DVD-RW or DVD+RW and view on a standard DVD player using a standard NTSC TV for proper testing since NTSC looks "odd" i.e., a bit dark, on a computer monitor.

I plan on leaving the clip up until August 8, 2004 which gives anyone interested about 1 whole week to download it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vhelp]

Hi all :P

@ mythos..

Sorry. I didn't mean to pass your previous post(s) from other pages. I must
have missed them. Anyways.

Yeah, I'm testing out my my Winfast TV-2000 XP "Expert" card. But, at the
moment, it's dead. I had problems over the weekend and had to replace my mobo,
and in the course of things, I may have damamged the card. It's not working.
But, I do plan on given it a check or too, if I finish up on a few things for
today. I had a few good "template" setting (for my given system and setup)
that yielded what I felt was great results.., but I got carried away over my
firewire issue, and long story short.. I'm set back a few. Anyways.
.
The card is a good card. I would recommend it to others looking for a good
card. Currently, it has passed these systems w/ ZERO frame drops. But do
remember, that this card is a WDM based card. Its not VFW based. So, you have
to use VirtualVCR or other. And I also highly recommend this app over any others
.
The color space is pretty good on this card. Only one thing you have to be
sure of.., and that's that your system will agree with this card - - No noise.
If you have a system (mobo/cpu/chipset) that gives you zero line noise in your
captures, this card is as good as the ADVC-100's output quality, but better,
because for the additional color space feature. Anyways.

On another note..

I just finally fixed my setup to again, accept my Winfast card. It is now
working fine again. Pfew. I thought I broke it or something. Anyways.
It's working fine now, and I'm making a bunch of SW test capture and encodes.

I'm also capturing under Windows 98 Gold, but this time using the WDM drivers
that came w/ my card, instead of the VFW drivers in previous cards.

However, I still feel that there is too much Line Noise in my captures. At
least I can see them. They look like streaks or waves. I don't care what
anyone says, you are all wrong as far as your reasons or excuses as to WHAT
causes them, and HOW to get rid of them. You simply can not. Period. Anyways.
If it could only give me zero line noise, I'd be very pleased. Otherwise,
nothing beats my zero line noise from my DC10+ card, and my ADVC-100 unit.
These two are zero line noise device :P Anyways.
.
Also, although I capture at 688 x 480, I'm still testing this resolution vs.
720 x 480 captures.
.
The clips I do capture, and when the source is widescreen, and w/ my Winfast
card, I capture w/ cropping, on the fly.., makes no sense to capture those
black bars, does it :P Anyways.


@ Fulci ..

Well I have posted a sample CLIP of my STAR WARS capture.

Here is the link: CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD
.
.
Please feel free to download this clip (it is about 1 minute and 34 seconds) and let me know what you think of it in terms of quality. If possible use an authoring program to burn it to a DVD-RW or DVD+RW and view on a standard DVD player using a standard NTSC TV for proper testing since NTSC looks "odd" i.e., a bit dark, on a computer monitor.
.
.
STARWARS.MPG

I agree. Color output does vary from pc to pc, and monitor to monitor.
And as I mentioned earlier, so does the graphics card and driver too.

I think that the PIC codec (aka, mjpeg) has to have it's field swaped. At
least that's what I've done when I used it.

I also think that CCE is not so good w/ widescreen, but only because you can't
get the BLACK bars to look pure black, as TMPG does.
.
CCE is lacking two major ingrediants:

* cropping
* color filtering

I use these two mostly, when using TMPG. But, there's no faster encoder out there
than CCE. I did a test encode of CBR in TMPG, and it took over 3 minutes to do,
then I did the same clip inside CCE, and it took only 35 seconds.

I've had mostly trouble D/L'ing your clip, though I did get about 1.9mb
of it.

I'll try and U/L a small sample clip for this weekend. But, I'm not sure of
what scene would be best for all who are curious or want to compare with their
own or post some pics at least.

Mind you, I'm still fixing my system from the loss of my previous mobo
and things. So, I'm a bit behind in my endeavors.

-vhelp

[FulciLives]

*** STAR WARS CLIP UPDATE ***

Someone interested in downloading this clip using thier work computer asked if I could rename the file since they couldn't download MPG/MPEG files due to some IT locking trick.

So I have renamed the file to STARWARS.TXT

Here is a new proper link to download:

CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD

I am also going to EDIT my first post and fix that LINK as well.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Don't forget that after you download this you need to rename the file from STARWARS.TXT to STARWARS.MPG
Also CLICKING the LINK directly may not work ... for instance I use Netscape 7.1 currently as my browser and I have to RIGHT CLICK on the LINK then select SAVE LINK TARGET AS ... to properly download it.

[vhelp]

I'll try and D/L it tomorrow at work (the pc I'm on now, is a PII) Anyways..
as I was saying.., because I brain-dead from all the re tweaking I had to do
w/ my pc and setup, yada yada yada...

I hate re-inventing the wheels in such cases as these above. Oh well.

See you all much later,
-vhelp

[dphirschler]

Okay, I finally got a chance to view your sample, fulci. It really helps to see it in motion. I noticed right away the anomaly at the top and bottom of the frame. That is a side-effect of the convolution filter. Since the convolution filter takes surrounding pixels into consideration, the ones on the edge get the black involved in the equation. You might try cropping up to the edge of the frame before the filter and then generating the black bars (and left & right edges) afterward. Although that might introduce yet another anomaly depending on how well the filter is written and if it has special processing for the edges.

Color looks brilliant. Very nice. That gray haired guy always looks too red anyways. However, I noticed the stars at the beginning were hard to make out.

All that being said, I viewed it on my PC, not a TV (yet). I did notice interlacing artifacts on the PC monitor. Or perhaps it was resizing artifacts. I tried to ignore that. I will have more to say about that if I notice it on the TV.

Thanks for posting the sample, fulci.


Darryl

[Mythos2002]

Vhelp,

I'm sorry to hear about your PC problems. I hope you will get everything back in order. I'm thinking about getting a TV2000 Expert, but I want to make sure I don't get one that says ASSY REV: A on the board. I've heard there are problems with those, but the REV: B boards are fine. The only problem is, the place I want to order from can't guarantee which board I will get.

Fulci,

I've previewed your clip on my PC. I noticed some diagonal jittering lines, especially on Artoo and two small transparent lines near the top and bottom black bars. However, it may be just a codec limitation on my PC. I checked properties and Intervideo's audio and video codecs were being used to decode the clip on my PC, so that may be the source of those problems.

I really liked how stable your top and bottom black bars where compared to mine. My bottom one jumps a little during the opening when the ships are hitting each other and later when the rebels and troopers are having their shootout. I'll have to investigate to see what is causing that.

I also thought your colors looked nice.

Thanks

Mythos

[FulciLives]

The "wierdness" at the top and bottom of the frame (where the image meets the black border) is definately there because of the 4:3 WS to 16x9 WS conversion.

When I convert it to MPEG-2 but just leave it 4:3 WS it does not have any of that "wierdness". This is why I think the "wierdness" has to do with the 4:3 WS to 16x9 WS conversion and not a Convolution3D problem.

As for there being any "interlaced" artifacts:

1.) I captured interlaced 29.970fps and left it that way ... I did not do IVTC

2.) Resize from 4:3 WS to 16x9 WS will actually "lower" the resolution a bit but I did it that way since that is all the rage. I don't personally have a 16x9 TV but I guess I will one day.

All in all I am happy but when I finally get around to doing the whole movie for myself I think I will probably just leave it at 4:3 WS rather than convert to 16x9 WS

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dphirschler]

John, you might try cropping to just the movie and then resizing, then adding the black borders. That will eliminate the "fuzzy" line at the top and bottom edges.


Darryl

[Darth Paris]

I don't know anything about LD so mabey I'm missing the point here, but why dont you just hook the LD player to a stand alone DVD Recorder?

[FulciLives]

John, you might try cropping to just the movie and then resizing, then adding the black borders. That will eliminate the "fuzzy" line at the top and bottom edges.

Darryl

I might try that to see how it goes.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Eandtc]

Darth Paris, doing so precludes making a menu, or making alterations (contrast, gamma, etc.)

However, if you just want a straight copy without chapters, it's fine.

[Darth Paris]

I don't have a stand alone recorder so I may have no idea what I'm talking about , but coldn't you record with a stand alone recorder, copy the MPEG-2 file to your hard drive and then do what ever the hell you want with it? The reason I ask is because I assume that a dvd recorder has much better quality then a cature card. Am I wrong?

[vhelp]

@ mythos ..

I'm sorry to hear about your PC problems. I hope you will get everything back in order. I'm thinking about getting a TV2000 Expert, but I want to make sure I don't get one that says ASSY REV: A on the board. I've heard there are problems with those, but the REV: B boards are fine. The only problem is, the place I want to order from can't guarantee which board I will get.

The card I have the: LR6611 / LR6613 ASSY REV B / PCB REV: C
The chip is: CX23883-19
.
Also, it has a DONG - though I wish it was a little longer.

The really only beaf I have ANY capture card is the codec. Because ALL video
sources are NTSC 4:2:0, there should (I wish) be a codec that outputs 4:2:0 YUY2
output, but so far, there isn't. There is just one too many color space conversion
going on inside editing app (ie, AVIsynth and virtualdub) and this is why we have
problems in our conversions NOT matching exactly the Input Source Material (before
capturing it) and then finally capturing it and having the same Exact 4:2:0 YUY2
color space, and then no matter how many times we edit the .AVI file, the color
space is never changed. I just wish there WAS such a codec. Instead, we have to
resort to "color manipulation" either during capturing or after it. Anyways.

@ Fulci ..

I think that the cause of those lines in your test clip was due to either:

* Field (during capturing - ie, Morgan's M-JPEG2000 codec v1.40 has this issue)
... if you must, then use a swapfield() before your Filters. But, this Field
... but issue may be dependant on certain capture cards. So, test first
... .
... .
... Oh, also. If you want, give the above codec a try. It opens up super fast
... inside vdub (and AVIsynth) which means faster encoding.
... .
... .
... This is the codec that puts the RED smile face in your Tray area.

or,

* LanxxxResize()
... for a test to rule this out, you could try opening the .AVI file inside vdub
... and then frameserve it into CCE (or TMPG) and see if the glitches appear.
... .
... .
... I also feel that AVIsynth produces these issues, depending on the script,
... but usually the result of some RESIZER function and the Codec used to open
... the source .AVI file (ie, not being able to convert the colorspace / chroma
... properly, or something of that nature)

The bottom line in these conversions is that you have to have a grasp on the
Color quality of the source. If you work at it in setting the right sweet
spot in color levels (prior to capturing) you'll have a better chance of getting
a good conversion output quality
But, there are so many other "outside" issues that reflects each persons
result, even if using the same settings - - oh, not to mention eye too.

On another note, I do have an issue with Aspect Ratios and proper Encoding
w/ these Ratios, and/or 16x9 widescreen vs. Anamorphic ones. Pfew.., its enough
to drive me mad - grr. I'm still testing/debating on a final conclusion on
which is the best one.. 16x9 vs. Anamorph. vs. 4:3 vs. whatever. Anyways.

Stick around for a sample pic of what I'm currently working/debating on :P

-vhelp

[vhelp]

.
.
The other issue w/ Aspect Ratio is:

* the math that is used in obtain the correct AR.

Here's an example or two..

   Wi       Ht         AR
-------------------------------------------------------
  640  x  360  =  1.777777778 - - True 16x9 AR

But this is incorrect
It's actually missleading. hint.. hint..

So, can anyone tell me what I'm "secretly" hiding from this analigy above ??
Then maybe we can fix this. Anyways.

-vhelp

[Eandtc]

Paris, when you capture the video onto your computer, it's in a much less compressed form, which means better quality. This is the best state to have your masters in when making changes (subtitles, scene changes, etc.)

When you have made all your changes, then you want to compress that into the MPEG format, so it takes up less space. MPEG is alossy format, which means unnecessary information is thrown out to save space. This information can never be retieved. Therefore, if you use an MPEG as a master (i.e. the DVD you would get from your recorder), you've already lost a great deal of information. When you make changes and recompress to MPEG, it starts leaving bad artifacts.

So, as I sid, if you just want a copy that plays, then the DVD recorder is fine. Keep in mind, though, that you can't edit out things like, say, disc flips/swaps, which can take several seconds each.

[gshelley61]

Darth Paris, doing so precludes making a menu, or making alterations (contrast, gamma, etc.)

However, if you just want a straight copy without chapters, it's fine.

Keep in mind, though, that you can't edit out things like, say, disc flips/swaps, which can take several seconds each.

Completely false. Editing MPEG2 without any re-encoding (quality loss) is done all the time with several different popular applications. For example, Womble MPEG Video Wizard and MPEG-VCR. There are also some full-blown editing programs (Ulead, Vegas) that can handle MPEG2 and only re-encode at the edit and transition points.

I transfer 5 and 6 side CAV laserdiscs to DVD-R all the time, capturing MPEG2 on DVD-RW's with my DVD recorder, then frame-accurately trimming and joining the sides flawlessly on the computer with Womble. I then simply author a final DVD-R (with menus if I want to) using the edited .mpg without any re-encoding at all, any step of the way.

If I need to adjust the video (color, hue, black level, brightness, etc.), I just use a hardware video processor in between the source and the DVD recorder. No problem!

Don't mislead the noobs... :P

[Mythos2002]

gshelley,

I was curious about what you said. Is there any way to IVTC something that is already MPEG-2 so that it can be made progressive?

Thanks.

Mythos

[gshelley61]

gshelley,

I was curious about what you said. Is there any way to IVTC something that is already MPEG-2 so that it can be made progressive?

Thanks.

Mythos

You could, but re-encoding would be required. If the MPEG2 is played back on a progressive scan or upscaling DVD player, there is no need to deinterlace. The player will do that for you. Same with computer software players like PowerDVD. Even if you have an interlaced (480i) output DVD player, the HD ready displays like the DLP and LCD rear projection sets have sophisticated de-interlacing circuits. Plus, the 3:2 pulldown is also done by the processing circuits in DVD players and HD displays.

[FulciLives]

The STAR WARS clip that I uploaded to my website is now GONE

I had to delete it because I went over my monthly bandwith allotment and I have to pay an extra $5.95 now and I am very close to the next level meaning I would have to pay 2x $5.95 or $11.90 if I kept it up.

So I had to delete it.

SORRY !!!

However ... I do have some interesting and good news!

Taking the PICVideo MJPEG catpure that I used for the posted clip I re-encoded it this time COMPLETELY cropping the black above and below the image. I then resized it (to make it 16x9 WS) and added fresh black and now I don't get the so-called "wierdness" where the actual image meets the black border (at the top and bottom of the image area).

So that is good news

Here is the script I used ... pretty much the same as the first one BUT with different cropping, addborders and resize values.

LoadPlugin("Convolution3d.dll")
avisource("D:\CAPTURE\capiuvcr.avi")
Trim(2805,5635)
crop(0,104,-0,-104)
jdl_UnfoldFieldsVertical(true)
Convolution3D(0, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
LanczosResize(688,360)
jdl_FoldFieldsVertical(true)
AddBorders(16,60,16,60)
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)

Remember my capture was done at 688x480 29.970fps NTSC

Anyways this works like a charm!

I might post a sample of this new encode to my website but I will have to wait until my monthly billing cycle resets so I don't push the bandwith too much!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Karyudo]

Ooh, lots of traffic today! Nice. But there's some erroneous info that needs to be cleared up.

1. There *is* a codec that will do 4:2:2. It's called HuffYUV. Actually, any codec that does YUY2 does 4:2:2. One of the few things that doesn't support 4:2:2 is a standalone DVD recorder -- that will only do 4:2:0, because that's what the DVD MPEG-2 spec says.

2. If you write a decent AviSynth script, you don't have to do any colourspace conversions. Well, at least not until the end, where your MPEG-2 encoder might like RGB. But you certainly don't need to be converting back and forth ad nauseum.

3. If you know what you're doing, a $30 cap card with a good 9- or 10-bit chipset and a decent lossless (or nearly lossless) codec will always do a better job of capping than a standalone DVD recorder. ALWAYS. Having a hardware recorder convert to MPEG-2 on the fly is convenient, but it's not as good as capping to a 4:2:2 codec, doing your editing (and IVTC, etc.), and then rendering variable-bitrate 4:2:0 DVD-spec MPEG-2. Also, adjusting colour levels, etc., is way cheaper with (free) tools like AviSynth and VirtualDub than any hardware solution upstream of a DVD recorder!

4a. The correct picture size for SW on an anamorphic NTSC DVD should be about 720 x 363. Or maybe if the picture doesn't quite go all the way to the full 720 pixel width, 712 x 360. That's then padded out with black bars to 720 x 480. With a pixel aspect ratio of 1.1867 (1.78/1.5), that gives an actual aspect ratio of about 2.35:1 on playback.

4b. The correct picture size for SW on a NON-anamorphic NTSC DVD should be about 720 x 272, padded to 720 x 480 with black bars. With a PAR of 0.8867 (1.33/1.5), that gives an actual aspect ratio of about 2.35:1 on playback.

4c. Capping SW from NTSC sources will give you a picture 272 pixels high (or thereabouts); capping from PAL sources will give you a picture 327 pixels high (or thereabouts).

[gshelley61]

3. If you know what you're doing, a $30 cap card with a good 9- or 10-bit chipset and a decent lossless (or nearly lossless) codec will always do a better job of capping than a standalone DVD recorder. ALWAYS. Having a hardware recorder convert to MPEG-2 on the fly is convenient, but it's not as good as capping to a 4:2:2 codec, doing your editing (and IVTC, etc.), and then rendering variable-bitrate 4:2:0 DVD-spec MPEG-2. Also, adjusting colour levels, etc., is way cheaper with (free) tools like AviSynth and VirtualDub than any hardware solution upstream of a DVD recorder!

Sounds great in theory, in actual practice is not always true. I've been trying for about 2 years to get what I would call great results using a wide variety of computer capturing + editing + filtering + frameserving + encoding + authoring + burning devices and methods. Not only has it been an exercise in frustration sometimes (dropped frames, sync problems, editing hangs, encoding hangs, etc.), but it ties up the computer too much and a simple two hour VHS or laserdisc transfer can take literally a couple of days to get done. In the end, I still was not completely happy with the results most of the time. I mean, I am viewing the finished DVD's on a 46" DLP using a DVI enabled DVD player, so believe me I see any problems or shortcomings if they are there.

I'm not a noob or a dumbass, and have replicated the steps suggested by Fulci, lordsmurf, and many others... people who have shown excellent final results on some of their projects. And I have gotten some good results myself using their recommendations. However, the DVD recorder has suddenly given me fast, excellent results with far less effort and a fraction of the time invested (my time is worth something to me, too).

Despite the theoretical differences in 4:1:1, 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 color sampling... in real world actual practice it is much more difficult for a person to perceive those differences in the final resulting DVD than it is to notice things like a soft picture, out of sync audio, compression artifacts, an overly processed/filtered image, etc.

Using the DVD recorder gives me a crystal clear, accurate image virtually identical to the source, free of significant artifacts and video noise, with excellent color balance, black level and detail. No dropped frames. No sync problems. No system hangs. All in real time. A two hour laserdisc transfer (recording to -RW, trimming and joining the MPEG2, authoring and burning a final DVD-R) takes maybe 3-4 hours... not 3-4 days! That is the greatest benefit of all. IMHO, YMMV

[Karyudo]

Sounds great in theory, in actual practice is not always true.

I don't disagree that it takes some significant effort to get good results! With a cap card and software, it's not snap-your-fingers-and-you're-done, that's for sure. All the points you hit are perfectly valid, I think, except:

Using the DVD recorder gives me a crystal clear, accurate image virtually identical to the source, free of significant artifacts and video noise, with excellent color balance, black level and detail. No dropped frames.

I feel that's all pretty subjective. Your definitions of "excellent" and "accurate" and "crystal clear" might not be the same as someone else's. You admonished someone to not mislead the noobs; I'd say the same thing applies here. While a DVD recorder gives you decent results in no time at all, there *is* added value in doing it the hard way! In a side-by-side shootout, I think it could be proven that the picture from a DVD recorder -- while good -- can be bested by the long, slow, computer-based method.

Still, you're done, and I'm not, so you're certainly getting the most out of Pareto's principle!

(P.S. One thing you can't do with a DVD recorder is what I'm doing, and that is to start with PAL to make NTSC anamorphic.)

[gshelley61]

I'm not questioning whether the MPEG2 output of a high quality multi-pass encoder with customizable settings will outperform a DVD recorder VBR capture... A good software encoder obviously wins hands down. And for restoring really bad sources, software filtering is unbeatable. I agree.

I think I should qualify my earlier comments by adding that if the source quality is good to excellent to start with, the DVD recorder does a really great job in a very short time.

[Eandtc]

"Keep in mind, though, that you can't edit out things like, say, disc flips/swaps, which can take several seconds each.


"Completely false. Editing MPEG2 without any re-encoding (quality loss) is done all the time with several different popular applications. For example, Womble MPEG Video Wizard and MPEG-VCR. There are also some full-blown editing programs (Ulead, Vegas) that can handle MPEG2 and only re-encode at the edit and transition points."

Well, what I meant was, you can't do it on the DVD recorder. You'd have to do extra work on the computer anyways. I was under the impression Paris wanted a simply copy straight off the recorder, and that's not a good idea in and of itself.

"3. If you know what you're doing, a $30 cap card with a good 9- or 10-bit chipset and a decent lossless (or nearly lossless) codec will always do a better job of capping than a standalone DVD recorder. ALWAYS. Having a hardware recorder convert to MPEG-2 on the fly is convenient, but it's not as good as capping to a 4:2:2 codec, doing your editing (and IVTC, etc.), and then rendering variable-bitrate 4:2:0 DVD-spec MPEG-2. Also, adjusting colour levels, etc., is way cheaper with (free) tools like AviSynth and VirtualDub than any hardware solution upstream of a DVD recorder!"

Agreed.

[gshelley61]

You can do some simple I frame editing on DVD recorders before finalizing. This works pretty well especially on the built-in HDD models. Yes, and I also agree that software capturing, filtering, encoding, etc. is ultimately a better, higher quality method (if you know what you are doing, of course).... but, for simple transfers of good quality VHS, home video tapes, or laserdiscs it is a terribly time consuming process for a relatively small difference in quality. DVD recorders offer speed, ease of use and pretty decent output. Just my opinion based on personal experience. YMMV

[gshelley61]

I've been experimenting with a hardware video sharpening/noise reduction processor, the Vidicraft Detailer III... it's a really nice unit. The best of it's type I've tried so far. Got it off of eBay cheap, too.

Here is a clip from the Star Wars full frame CAV laserdisc, composite output recorded with the JVC DR-M10SL DVD recorder:





On this one I am using the Vidicraft Detailer III. Detail at 1/3, Sharpness at 1/4, VNX at 1/2, Black at 1/2 (last two are noise reduction):

[mysticgohan17]

In 2000 when the VCDs were released in Asia, were the Laserdiscs of the special edition re-released aswell? I'm asking because I want two things:
1. the most recent copy of the special edition on laserdisc (i was going to just insert the han shot and some o-ot audio in there, but i've seen screencaps of the DVDs and they look magnificent, the laserdiscs look like widescreen VHS compared to the them)
2. The best quality versions of O-OT ESB and ROTJ. I already know which version of ANH I'm getting (only for that threepio line though, but I'm concerned for the picture quality of this movie as well).

Any help is appreciated.

edit: and another thing. I want to IVTC my captures, are the NTSC laserdiscs telecined correctly, so I can just toss most of the interlaced frames and keep the progressives, or will I have to deinterlace some?

[flaninacupboard]

there was a japanese release of the special eds on laser, they'll be the best.

the best OT versions will be definitve collection though.