Star Wars Conversions-Hit me with your best shot...

[Gary Lightfoot]

The analogue outs are fine for the stereo soundtrack, but I've not tried to access the commentary. I'll have a look tomorrow if you don't find out in the mean time.

ary.

[grimby]

thanks!
i believe the commentary is the analog audio and the regular soundtrack is the digital audio. so it may just be a simple push of a button.

[Mythos2002]

Somebody earlier posted a min bitrate of 2000. If you try a min of zero, you will see a much improved picture. There is no reason to set your min so high. It just degrades your video quality.
Darryl

That was probably me. Can you post where the information is that it is better to use 0? I don't doubt you because I've heard it before. The only reason I used 2000 was because I heard some authoring programs hate min rates below 1500 or 2000. I don't know if DVD-Lab is one of them or not. They mention that here http://dvd-hq.info/Compression.html .

Mythos

[FulciLives]

I always use 2000kbps for the MIN when doing a multi-pass VBR encode. In fact if the movie is short enough so that the AVG is around 6000kbps then I even do a MIN of 2500kbps

Also I always do 8000kbps as the MAX

My stuff all looks good to me and I'm totally anal retentive when it comes to quality

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[ntrprs]

i have one dvd that has uncut scenes added back into it, taken from a different-quality print of the film. they have combined the higher quality print of most of the film, with the lower-quality uncut scenes, and the difference in quality is very noticable and quite off-putting. the flow of the film suffers as a result.

I assume here that we are talking about the scenes that were 'adjusted' for the special editions?

There are a few 'real' cut scenes that never made it to the original prints too - there are available on the Star Wars CDROM "Behind the Magic". They are 640x480 res (I think) and you cannot access them separately on the CD (only via the interface). Now if there was an attempt to use these as extra deleted scenes .....

[viande]

They are 640x480 res (I think)

i remember them more like 320x240, which is also the standard of the time
it was released, 1998 (required CPU P133 or higher).
and the Bigs scene was VERY dull looking and in bad shape.

http://www.lucasarts.com/products/btm/default.htm

[dphirschler]

I always use 2000kbps for the MIN when doing a multi-pass VBR encode. In fact if the movie is short enough so that the AVG is around 6000kbps then I even do a MIN of 2500kbps

Also I always do 8000kbps as the MAX

John, I am just curious as to why you want to raise the min bitrate. I am sure you know that when you do that it is stealing bitrate from higher motion scenes. Do any of your players have problems with low bitrates? Everything I've read about the DVD spec specifies that the min bitrate can be zero. Therefore, players should accept that. And it is to our advantage to use that.


Darryl

[FulciLives]

I always use 2000kbps for the MIN when doing a multi-pass VBR encode. In fact if the movie is short enough so that the AVG is around 6000kbps then I even do a MIN of 2500kbps

Also I always do 8000kbps as the MAX

John, I am just curious as to why you want to raise the min bitrate. I am sure you know that when you do that it is stealing bitrate from higher motion scenes. Do any of your players have problems with low bitrates? Everything I've read about the DVD spec specifies that the min bitrate can be zero. Therefore, players should accept that. And it is to our advantage to use that.

Darryl

And I've read stuff that says you shouldn't go below 2000kbps if you can help it.

In support of that please note many encoders auto set the MIN to 2000kbps or even 2500kbps when you select 2-pass or multi-pass VBR mode.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vhelp]

Hi guys,

Just a domb question, but..

Those that are getting "hatches" or "checkers" (or whatever) (or squares)are you
getting them in the Original versions, or SE (or both, or other versions LD's out
their) ??

I thought I would do that SE version of ANH, where Lahea (spelling) is about
to shoot one of the drones during Vador's capture of the vessel. I'm still testing
out my new Winfast TV2000 XP card, and w/ my new S-Video cable, not only
is the Noise reduced to an almost zero (probably is) but I'm also not getting
any of those funny squares - - at least, they are not as serious as before, when
I used my ATI-TV Wonder and ADVC-100 cards/devices during capturing.

Thanks,
-vhelp 2493

[vhelp]

Oh, by the way, and not to be OT.. but,

For those who do not have their original remote (like me) for their LD players,
you can use "universal remotes" for yours. I'm using the Philips Magnovox
and the model no for this 4 devices - TV/VCR/DVD/SAT/CBL is:

* PM435S

On the back of the package, you'll see a listing, look for Number 7 - Laser Disc :P

Pioneer code number is 132 and this operates my Pioneer CLD-V2600
and CLD-D701 !!
I got this at Wal-Mart for under $9.00 dollars. But, you can go higher, and get
the one at K-Mart (for $19) that handles 7 devices. Like you really need it.

-vhelp

[vhelp]

One more thing..

I'm planning (hoping) on posting a small sample clip for Friday's TGIF windown
and something to look forward to.

If anyone is interested in a certain scene (to compare against theirs) I'd be
more than happy to perform a test encode and U/L it for you all to use in your
comparison/tests :P

Let me know what you'd like to see.
-vhelp

[Gary Lightfoot]

vhelp,

the dotcrawl/edge hatching appears greatly reduced on the SE laserdiscs I have. I'm thinking of using those for some scenes anyway.

The dotcrawl filter seems to work quite well for me, but I think I'll only use it on those scenes that need it, not the whiole movie.

What's best - stitch the avis together then mpg them, or convert all the scenes to mpg, then stitch together in tmpgenc?

Cheers,

Gary.

[Mythos2002]

I think it is better to put the AVI's together and serve them to TMPENG. I haven't tried piecing MPEG's together, but I have heard AVI's are better to work with since the MPEG's aren't going to be as flexible when it comes to editing. That is what I've been told anyway.

Mythos

This is off topic, but I can't believe they are including the Ep III stuff in the Trilogy DVD set. I would rather save that stuff for the Ep III DVD and put more stuff actually related to the Trilogy in the set. I would also like to have some of the classic documentaries included not featured on the Definitive Collection LD's. Lucas is really trying to bury the Original Versions altogether. Even the old documentaries aren't safe.

[jaamarti]

when I converted my original widescreen tapes, I used an avi capture and then ran them through TMPOGenc and ran a few filters to clean them up a bit... they turned out rather nice that way.

Also, try and keep your bitrate as high as possible.. remember that for the final project you can decrease it in order to get the correct file size for the dvd, but while working with the files keep the bitrate high..


Jason

[geek rock]

i have one dvd that has uncut scenes added back into it, taken from a different-quality print of the film. they have combined the higher quality print of most of the film, with the lower-quality uncut scenes, and the difference in quality is very noticable and quite off-putting. the flow of the film suffers as a result.

I assume here that we are talking about the scenes that were 'adjusted' for the special editions?

no no, i was talking about a completely different film, nothing to do with star wars. i was just making the comparison between having 2 different film sources in the same movie.

[dphirschler]

when I converted my original widescreen tapes, I used an avi capture and then ran them through TMPOGenc and ran a few filters to clean them up a bit... they turned out rather nice that way.

Also, try and keep your bitrate as high as possible.. remember that for the final project you can decrease it in order to get the correct file size for the dvd, but while working with the files keep the bitrate high..

Jason, I have to address two points you made with your post.

First of all "keeping the bitrate as high as possible", is a misleading statement. Of course you want your average and max bitrates as high as possible (within DVD standards and DVDR capacity). But the minimum bitrate should be kept as low as possible.

Second of all, when working with the files, there is no bitrate since it does not get encoded until all the editing is done. I believe the majority of us are frameserving the video to the encoder, but I am sure some are saving intermediate files (again uncompressed) before encoding. And perhaps a few people even save an intermediate Huffyuv (lossless) compressed file. Either way, I doubt ANYBODY is mpeg encoding during the editing process and then mpeg encoding for a final DVD. The closest you will find to that is somebody who will mpeg encode it with a very high bitrate and use Shrink to make it fit the DVD (a process I disagree with, but to each his own). Perhaps that is what you were trying to say in your post.

And John (Fulci lives), I have yet to find a DVD player that chokes on a VBR with zero min bitrate. Not saying you are wrong, but perhaps you are being overly cautious since the DVD spec does not specify 2000 as minimum bitrate.

Darryl

[vhelp]

TGIF .. Star Wars fans :P

Yes, I would never go MPEG, and then edit either. Thats sort of going against
the grain a bit. Cause, you're taking a good source (though LD) and encoding
on the fly, as you go, which is compressing (hence, loosing quality on the fly)
and then you are editing, and then possible re-encoding again (another loss of
quality in the chain of things)

My recommendations are always to obtain the source materias in as close to
the original as possible. And that means, an AVI file.. not an MPEG, even if
you crank up the BITRATE to 10,000 - doesn't matter.. even if you don't see
any blocks.. cause the colorspace will have ben compressed, and even the
compressing has a form of "blur" to it, making the loss of quality more realizing.

As far as "Best Shot.." settings go, I would always go for an uncompressed
AVI file (60gig for hours worth @ 720 x 480) and do your editing prior to the
encoding step, unless your encoder has built-in filters for your editing steps.
.
My 2nd alternative would be to DV it. Example, use a DV devcie such as
the famous ADVC or even PASS-THROUGH, using a dv cam.

So, nobody has time nor interest for post (U/L) a small sample clip of their
hard work for us all to see and taste ??
Well then.. either do I. I'm gonna be lazy to then

-vhelp

[Mythos2002]

I would like to see a sample Vhelp.

Mythos

[geek rock]

the way i interpreted that message was.. "encode at a high mpeg bitrate - you can always shrink it with dvd2one etc afterwards if it doesnt fit"..

i could be wrong though.

[jaamarti]

Jason, I have to address two points you made with your post.

First of all "keeping the bitrate as high as possible", is a misleading statement. Of course you want your average and max bitrates as high as possible (within DVD standards and DVDR capacity). But the minimum bitrate should be kept as low as possible.

Second of all, when working with the files, there is no bitrate since it does not get encoded until all the editing is done. /snip/
The closest you will find to that is somebody who will mpeg encode it with a very high bitrate and use Shrink to make it fit the DVD (a process I disagree with, but to each his own). Perhaps that is what you were trying to say in your post.


Darryl

Darryl,

You are correct. I made a mistake in how I worded it. well... sorta... For ROJ I had to aska friend to grab a copy from his collection and give it to me instead of me borrowing his tapes... I was on a time restriction and so he gave me the file in mpeg format instaed of waiting for me to grab it off his box at his house. He uses mainly mpeg encoding as he has limited disk space... It still turned out nicely though.


Also, yes I agree that keeping everything on a high bitrate and then using shrink or dvd2one to crunch the final file down tends to lead to a little more loss than encoding the final file at a bitrate that will fit on the DVD.... don't know why as I haven't really looked too deeply into how those apps work.


And finally, thanks for clarifying my umbiguopus comment about keeping the bitrates as high as possible. I tend to forget that there are many, who like me when they first started, don't realize that there are different bitrate settings... Thanks for clearing that one up for me...


Jason

[flaninacupboard]

Not sure what ratio of people are going anamorphic/non-anamorphic, but thought i'd throw this in.

Here's a frame grab



Here it is resized to anamorphic proportions (without additional letterboxing) using photoshop (which has an excellent resize function)




And the final image is resized to anamorphic proportions using microsoft photo editor, which seems to use a nearest neighbour resize, effectively what a 16:9 TV does to a non-anamorphic picture. except the 16:9 TV is worse than this because of flickery interlace too.






I hope that's helped anyone who hasn't made their mind up yet.

(pics may not load for you due to crap hosting.

in which case
http://www.geocities.com/flaninacupboard/seg22.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/flaninacupboard/seg22ana.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/flaninacupboard/seg22zoom.jpg )

[Mythos2002]

Hi Flanina,

I can't see the pictures here or at your hostsite. I'm definitely interested in seeing them though. Thanks.

Mythos

[flaninacupboard]

yeah, it doesn't work right

gimme a minute.


Edit:
try www.geocities.com/flaninacupboard/seg22.htm

[Mythos2002]

Thanks Flanina,

I would rather do Anamorphic, but it looks like the first image on your page looks the best. Is that first image 16:9 or 4:3?

Mythos

[flaninacupboard]

The first is just taken straight from a capture, so 4:3, and would need letterboxing on a 4:3 TV.

I just wanted to show those saying zooming on a 16:9 would be better need to look into it a little more - even if you don't have a 16:9 tv today we all will in the furutre, and those two images will be your two options.

[Mythos2002]

Ok. So the 2nd and 3rd images are what a 4:3 image would look like zoomed in on a 16:9 TV. I have it now. So, I'm okay to do 16:9 conversions. That was my plan. I don't have a 16:9 TV yet, but I know that I will in the future.

Thanks.

Mythos

[dphirschler]

Well, I just wanted everybody to know that I got a PAL version to try out now. Now all I need is a PAL LD player. I also have a PAL version VHS to play around with as soon as I get the time. I plan on making an NTSC anamorphic DVD from this PAL version. Should look pretty nice.

If anybody can help me get a PAL LD player, preferably an (EU version) Pioneer DVL-909, 919, or a CLD-925, I would appreciate it. I just missed an auction over the weekend for a DVL-909 player.


Darryl

[flaninacupboard]

925's come up fairly frequrntly on ebay over here, but are around £200, and then you have to ship it! i'm happy to assist if you want to buy one from over here.

[dphirschler]

Thanks, flaninacupboard. I appreciate that. I sent you a private message.


Darryl

[grimby]

Well, I just wanted everybody to know that I got a PAL version to try out now.

what version is it? i'm also looking for a PAL set. is there a PAL version of the definitives?



well, last night I did my very first LD capture. this is definitely going to be a fun project. :mrgreen

my rig:

• NTSC Definitive LD's
  Pioneer CLD-V2600 player
  Leadtek TV2000XP Expert capture card
  P4 2.8GHz, 1GB RAM, 120GB free HD space
  Monster Cable A/V cables and Power Center.
  using VirtualVCR w/ Huffyuv for capture

I think I've got the gist of what settings work best, but my source seems to be having some problems. I'm getting some unwanted video noise and I don't know what's causing it. some frames have white specs or black lines like this:


another example

other frames have colored blocks like this (at bottom and right edge)
another example

so i guess my question is where does this noise come from? is this normal? is it the player? or could it be the discs themselves? could this be some form of laser rot?