Star Wars Conversions-Hit me with your best shot...

[vhelp]

Evening all.

flanina,
The pic showed very good detail. I think you displaed it in a previous
thread/post.
I was fortunate enough to get the seg22D.avi file, but found out it
was divX 5.0 and my vdub couldn't not open it. I don't have divX installed
on my pc's, but, I do have the ability to view divX file now, w/out having
to install w/ those elaborate installers. And, who knows what they may
be including during the installations. Anyways, I only hvae v3.11 working
at the moment, but as soon as I D/L the 5x version (though I had them
all) I'll use my technique on 5x as well, and hopefully, I'll be able to finally
view your clip, though divX format!!

flanina,
Either there must be internet traffic, or too many visiters were trying to
D/L you samples. In any case, I was luck enough to get at least one file.
FYI: Have a look at the error message people are most likely having.

-vhelp

[fscrocco]

I don't know why no one has thought of this. If you have an LD player and own the titles, you have a right to back them up. From what I've been told, there is no copy protection on LDs. Just use a standalone dvd burner, like the Panasonic dmr-e20. You avoid the capturing problem with dropped frames, mpg2 conversion, which has some loss and takes a long time, etc. I have one and its great. You can get the new e30 for about $500 and can find closeouts on the e20 for less. This isn't much more than capture cards, fast hd's,etc. I also have a pansonic pc internal burner, the lf-d321. I record on ram, bring into the computer, author with DVD WorkShop, and burn back to dvd-r, erase the ram and do another movie. I do mostly movies off digital cable, thru the s-video jack, and get great dvds. I get a kick out of making authored, menued, dvds that are not on commercial dvd (but on digital cable), like Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, 52 Pick-Up, Private Resort, 8 Million Ways to Die, etc. You get the picture.

[Mythos2002]

for just the movie on a disc you're looking at aroun 4.5mbps average, which isn't great, but not atrocious either. you can get excellent results from LD capping, especially with PAL discs because of the higher bandwidth video. cast your eyes here www.geocities.com/flaninacupboard for some examples. open seg22d.avi and look at the fine detail on c3p0's body, he's all corroded and manky! or for you 56k users open seg22.jpg for a nice clear still frame. i've also done seg28d.avi so you can see how good the space scenes look! trust me the mpeg2's are a lot nicer looking, and i've nearly finished the bajillion hour process of 2passvbr ready to go onto DVD-r, i've got a queue a mile long of people wanting to, uh, evaluate my encoding. for money.
experiment, play!

Flaninacupboard,
That is very nice work. I hope mine turn out as well when I get my LD Player. Unfortunately, I have to use the NTSC discs. I was wondering if you could recommend the capture and encoding programs you used. I only have WinCoder right now which works with W2K, but not XP. I did a test with VHS and it looked okay. Four minutes took approx. 242 megs. I'm just trying to figure out the best programs and settings for the captures.
I was finally able to win an LD Player off of Ebay. I wanted the Pioneer D704, but I found a D703 for the right price, with manual, remote, and box. I figured the D703 would be fine since none of the pre Special Edition Star Wars discs are AC-3. I just have to wait a week before the player gets here.

Mythos

[vhelp]

flaninacupboard,
I finally got the divX-5 codec working on my PC and was finally able
to view via vdub.

Question 1: what app do YOU use to view your divX clips ??
* i've found vdub produces very good results for viewing, though not
actually designed for playing.

Question 2: what settings did you use in your divX-5 encode ??
I have a few of the latest Star Wars on VHS, and wanted to play around
w/ them this weekend (maybe use my TBC and DV on them or something for
best quality) I have a Fiter Chain that seems to work pretty well for
VHS sources, so quaity is will be prety good though

Question 3: what filter did YOU use to help in your sample clip ??
I'm finally D/L'ing your 2nd clip seg28d.avi clip right now.
Will be interesting to see the results though, he, he...

Question 4: can you give a little specs on the clips, ie widescreen
etc. ??

Question 5: do you play your divX via a TV-out ?? and if so, are you
satisfied with the quality ?? If you have, what's your card/specs ??

Question 6: You first clip was very good. I noticed you took off the
borders though. What was your reasoning for this ??

Ahh, I see you're running windows 98, same as me. I don't have the SE.
And, the 4gig limitd doesn't affect me since I use the segment route.

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm "finally" having some fun w/ this
divX stuff. And, so far, I'm still testing the two version I have
working great on my PC, v3.11 and v5.02
Would be interesting to know what settings you like/prefer using though.
I'm also looking to D/L GOOD dvd rip to divX samples to get an idea
of the quality. Oh, I mean small sample clips, NOT ACTUALL DVD MOVIES.
I'm not on WinMX or Morphieous - i gave them all up long ago, when my
system continued to ackt up all too often, and those annoying adds...
As you all know, for months I've ben on divX's back
for lack of quality and saying how I basically don't like it.

Well, I'm still waiting for you sample clip to D/L, 65% plus. I'll
post my comments sortly.

Others can answer some of my questions too, you know
Have a good day all.
-vhelp

[flaninacupboard]

wow! lots of questions!
number one, i just use Windows media player. i found if you install version 7upward, then simply change the file preferences to open in your old 6.x version, its nice and stable and supports plenty of codecs. also doesn't have the shitty buttons and stuff. ive occasionally used the player that comes with divx5, or sometimes showshifter, but usually just mediaplayer, they all look the same to me
number two i just used constant bit rate at 1000kbps on 1-pass slowest time/highest quality, through tmpgenc. i also set keyframes to 250 interval.
number three. i capped in huffyuv, and then ran it hrough tmpgenc with the built in noise reduction (set on 8 1 12) and the custom colour corrector, as the PAL star wars releases were a little red. i also slightly reduced the saturation, as faces looked a little odd at first. after this it wasn't neccesary to use any additional filters for the divx clips.
number 4.
well i capped the movie at 720X576, the size of the movie was actually 720X341, but i cropped the top line in any case. i know 720X341 isn't 2.35:1 (as the movies are supposed to be) but the aspect doesn't look wrong, and that's what it captured at, so that's how it's staying. i changed the resolution for the Divx clips, because the full resolution ones looked even worse than the clips i put up.
number five.
nope, i don't watch divx often, and if i do, it's only because i don't have time to put what i want onto dvd-rw. plus we have the computer at the end of the bed, so it doesn't matter. i have, however, used a couple of TV cards. ht eonly ones i've ever been impressed by are mpeg out cards, but that defeats the point of watching it in Divx really.
number six.
i still have the widescreen borders on the mpeg files, otherwise it wouldn't play on my dvd player, and if it did it would look wrong. i took them off the divx clips because there's no point in them being there. i thnk its fairly normal for Divx to not have borders.
yep, i use showshifter to capture in 2 gig segments (that's only 4 minutes of video in huffyuv!)
yeah, ive been onto Divx for a long time. now i have broadband it has its uses, if im interested in a film, i'll download it and burn it to dvd-rw, if i like it ill go buy it, if i don't, i delete it. doesn't stop them lloking like pap though. i was astonished at the toshiba move to make HD-DVD9 using Divx at HDTV resolution. stupid, bloody stupid.

Long live Laser!!(at least i hope -my- laser lives long. damn hard finding spares.....)

[flaninacupboard]

for those interested, you can try getting my samples from ftp://192.168.0.2 instead. geocities keep warning me i've exceeded my horult bandwidth.....

[nickel]

This may be a stumper... does anyone know of a way to extract the AC3 from the Special Edition Laserdiscs so that the AC3 can be used on the DVD-R?

-nickel

[flaninacupboard]

it's discussed here http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=103093&highlight= but i don't think they reached any conlcusion yet....
it doesn't effect me as the PAL laserdiscs don't carry AC-3 Sound (limitation of the format) so digital stereo (encoded as dolby surround) will have to be good enough

[Mythos2002]

I wish there was a definitive guides on how to capture these Laserdiscs including hardware, programs, and settings. I don't know much about interlacing and deinterlacing, etc.

Mythos

[rwarren]

@macloed - also the quality I get from my LD player is great! What I meant by ORIGINAL is simply NO special editions. I don't like them. And macloed, if you can find VHS of the ORIGINALS in letterbox I would love to see them

I am pretty sure I have the original Star Wars movies on VHS in letterbox. The came in a large box set with a book and other stuff. I have been wanting to get them onto DVD too. I just bought an A05 burner yesterday so I will try soon. I will do VHS->Sony TRV20 MiniDV->Firewire->PC running Adobe Premiere. I know it will be VHS quality but that is better than nothing.

Personally, I think George Lucas is nuts. He should release Ep. 4, 5 and 6 as soon as possible. Then, after Ep 3, he can re-release all of the DVDs in a box set and everyone will buy them again. He is missing out on a ton of money, not that he doesn't already have enough.

Richard

[Mythos2002]

I've been hearing a lot of people say that they have been cropping off the letterbox bars. I know that saves space, but will the bars show back up if you make a DVD and play it on your TV? I'm just making sure the image isn't distorted. Also, are the subs in Star Wars in the black bars or in the movie image itself?

Thanks.

Mythos

[geek rock]

I've been hearing a lot of people say that they have been cropping off the letterbox bars. I know that saves space, but will the bars show back up if you make a DVD and play it on your TV? I'm just making sure the image isn't distorted. Also, are the subs in Star Wars in the black bars or in the movie image itself?

Thanks.

Mythos

i'm pretty sure you can add an "anamorphic 16:9" tag to the ifo file, which will let you play the film back with borders on a 4:3 tv and then in anamorphic widescreen on a widescreen tv.

[flaninacupboard]

encoding it in anamorphic is a waste of time, as the extra resolution is interpolated, i.e. your laserdisc isn't anamorphic. it is however worth cropping the black bars and then replacing them with pure black, as the captured ones may look entirely black, but will still use some data. also gets rid of speckles or mild rot or other noise from your LD. as for subs, the SE version has the subs in the letterbox bar. what i did was to crop the bar above the picture and right up to the bottom of the subs text and then replaced the rest of the bar with pure black. looks fine, and there aren't that many scenes with subs.

[Mythos2002]

I'll have to take your advice as I believe the subs on the originals is in the black bar at the bottom as well. Still trying to master Virtualdub on the capturing end. The problem I get is that I've tried capturing at 29.97 frames per second and the audio and video are out of sync and the audio is also too fast. It sounds like an Alvin and The Chipmonks record. I have tried settings like keeping the audio with video and so forth. I'm going to try some more settings this weekend.

Mythos

[nickel]

A while ago I asked about ripping the AC-3 (Dolby Digital 5.1) from an LD (specifically for Star Wars SE Trilogy). Since then, I posted the following in a different thread on 11/24, but got no response. What do you guys think of the feasibility of this idea?

How about this idea to get the AC3 off of a LaserDisc. It's extremely time consuming and difficult and requires some hardware and expensive software. But let me throw it out there and you all tell me if it's even plausible:

Run the RF AC3 output from the LaserDisc player to one of those outboard surround sound processors (the kind you would match with a "Dolby Digital Ready" receiver before DD became common place). Those processors have line-out jacks for every channel in the Dolby Digital stream, I think. Then one channel at a time, you run the output of a channel (or two at a time since you have a stereo input on your soundcard) to the soundcard inputs and you record the entire soundtrack of the movie for that channel to the harddrive. You'd use a simple Windows Recorder type thing that can handle large file sizes. You repeat the process for evey channel (keeping your recording input levels the same in order to keep the relative volume for each channel balanced). You will then have six mono WAV files on your PC (one for each channel). If you brought in two channels at a time, you'll have 3 stereo WAVs. Split those out into unique mono files if necessary using a sound editing program like Sound Forge.

Now, this part requires a program called "Soft Encode" by Sonic Foundry or the equivalent. I've never used the thing, but if I understand it correctly, this program will take your 6 different mono WAVs and re-mix them back into a single AC3 file suitable for use in DVD authoring programs.

The real challenge will be making sure the 6 channels are in sync.

How's this sound?

I don't have the surround processor. I'm an amateur remixer and I'd know what I was doing... I'm willing to do the hard work to try it out and share my findings... just need someone to loan me one of them surround processors.

[flaninacupboard]

a lot of people probably have the gear neccesary, as a lot of surround recievers have pre-outs, for using with a power amp. some newer soundcards can record 3 stereo signals at a time ( i believe the sound blaster audigy can) and synching isn't an issue really, if you use the end of the side as reference you'll go from background noise to silence, as long as all the files are the same length with no silence at the end they will be in synch. bsweet also processes mono waves into DD, and it's dead simple to use. an easy way to cheat though, find one of the divxes from kazaa or whatever that has ac-3 sound, or buy the knocked off copies on ebay, they have ac-3, then pinch it and put it with your own video.

[nickel]

Good grief! I can't belive I didn't think of the pre-outs. My receiver can do that! You're the man, flaninacupboard. Thanks.

[medievil]

evening guys.

medievil,
Yes, it's always nice to know how peoples like yourself are always here
to hand out hats ta eat - when one is wrong. Yes, I believe I may have
ben wrong. But, my bases for my judgement on quality was on those that were
posted here. And, well, they were as good as a VCD in comparison to VHS
quality. But, it may very well be true that very good Encodes from LD
captures CAN be produced after all. Back in July, I was only able to see a
handful of LD capture samples, and the quality was not of DVD or near it at
the time (july)

But still, I have yet to see an encoding done via LD source, and in very good
quality, as you are so nicely putting it. Are you trying to say that you have
some LD samples that you did?? If so, please post or at least post a link to
some samples we all can have a looksees at K?

>> A LD rip will blow vhs away.
Well, I hope you have some samples ...cause I'd sure like to see some.

The postee of this thread finally realized that it was his LD unit that was at
fault. W/ that in mind, I would have to say then, that my statement was or may
have ben incorect.

Oh, yes, I was in err about LD capture/encode quality (if done right and w/ a
good quality LD player) That what you wanted ta hear, he, he...

-vhelp

Way late, as I didn't see this post.
I wasn't trying to be derrogatorry r point out anything being wrong so to speak, just giving the correct resolution tree :P
Also sure, if you wan't I can send you an MPEG2 sample of SW (any of the first 3) done from Laser disk, that is all but DVD quality. LD captures really do Blow VHS away...

[vhelp]

medievil,
Yes, you're correct, based on what I've seen (only needed one sample
for this though) so far, by flaninacupboard, I'd say you're correct !! LOL

* I vae 21 windows open, so I hope that this doesn't crash me again.

-vhelp

[flaninacupboard]

Right, after finally capping encoding and noise reducing and PCM recording and transferring and DD encoding and authoring and burning...... I wasn't happy. there's a couple of reasons for this. 1) i KNOW i can get better quality on the video front 2) this is in 4:3 format and i wish i'd done 16:9 format and 3) DAMN SUBTITLES!
so i
1) bought a Canopus ADVC-50 (the 100 was overkill, i don't need to play back the DV on my TV, and my PC has TV out in any case, and macro is moot point, i live in the UK and the macro hack doesn't work on PAL signals) so my capture is 10000% better than my bt878 card.
2) i'm gonna crop and encode in anamorphic, i don't like the way 4:3 widescreen material looks on a 16:9 display
3) this is why i'm posting again. when the aliens speak in the star wars movies the english subs appear in the letterbox bar which i will crop. therefore i have to copy the text and timings into a text file. I have seen how to write subs text, but how do i put these cues into a DVD? is there a guide anywhere on this? i see in ifoedits' dvd authoring section there is an option for "subpicture" i'm guessing that means subs, but what format does it require and how do i get text into it??
The only other thing i can think of doing is manually adding subs frame by frame into the cropped picture. Not Fun.

[flaninacupboard]

Come on medievil! if you've got LD caps you must have sorted out the subtitles, how did you do it?

[Marco33]

I'm with you guys, just bought the original version WS VHS on e-bay. Will trasfer them to DVD.

Running tests with my guini pig movie, Animal house WS brand new.

Gonna run tests on it till I get it right.

Might as well, if I know George... he will screw with the movies even more before he puts them out in 2020.

I can't watch the SE versions.

ROTJ

Skif scene:

Lando- I thought you where blind?

Han- (Original) it's alright, trust me.

Han- (SE) I can see better now.


I have no words.


While we are on the subject. After capture... should we just convert to mpeg2 or strip the audio out first.

[medievil]

Come on medievil! if you've got LD caps you must have sorted out the subtitles, how did you do it?

I have no use/don't rip subtitles. A movie like SW that has other language captions get displayed on the cap anyway. No need to "rip" them.

[Marco33]

We'll I gave it my best shot. My computer is just too slow to do a proper conversion of my ws, not se version, mint trilogy.

George, you rebel scum!

[flaninacupboard]

too slow for capturing or too slow for encoding?
i'll post some pics tomorrow to illustrate the problem i mean with the subtitles.

[Marco33]

Can't capture full screen. Only 352X240 UVUY.

[Will Hay]

........menu via "entry points........I've heard of "DVD movie factory" but this is yet, another big app that
requires tons of harddrive space...........

I use Ulead MF and didn't realise it was such a big program, seems to around the 30mb mark at most
It's been great for me with regards authoring vhs to dvd and home movie to dvd conversion (I'm a Vdub and TMPGenc Plus man myself).
I played around with all the Inidanna Jones movies (PAL) and have been delighted with the results.
Ulead MF gives you the facility to add a backgroud clip of your menu (I took a screenshot of a scene) and then add any number of chapter points with what I think you are calling 'entry points'. It's simply a slider bar you select to a certain point in the film, and select your chapter point there (you can even select a different scene image). I tend to set them at every 15 mins, only because my wife and I have a habit of going to bed to watch a movie and fall asleep half way through - it's then easy to find the place you dozed off at
I also tend to play the movie theme through a sound recorder and add that to the startup menu too - I do like to p*ss about
Will

[jake88]

Today I am going to dump Episodes 4,5,6 to my panasonic HS2 from Laserdisk in Widescreen format. I will post the results if any one shows any interest.

[Slomer]

Wow, I am not sure if posting this deep into a thread even does any good.. however, the original post was about getting dvd authoredof original version in widescreen. The question is why you would want to do this? I understand some retarded stuff was added but a LOT of stuff was also cleaned up which is one of the reasons it is worthy of dvd. Why don't you take the special edition in widescreen and simply cip out the offending scenes such as the stupid jaba scene. This would leave you with BASICALLY the original but with all the cleanups they spent time doing and thus a much more dvd worthy version of the movie.

[Mythos2002]

Wow, I am not sure if posting this deep into a thread even does any good.. however, the original post was about getting dvd authoredof original version in widescreen. The question is why you would want to do this? I understand some retarded stuff was added but a LOT of stuff was also cleaned up which is one of the reasons it is worthy of dvd. Why don't you take the special edition in widescreen and simply cip out the offending scenes such as the stupid jaba scene. This would leave you with BASICALLY the original but with all the cleanups they spent time doing and thus a much more dvd worthy version of the movie.

I thought about doing this, but it still wouldn't be the Original Star Wars trilogy. The reason is that he not only added scenes, he replaced scenes and sound effects.

That doesn't sound like a big deal, but listen to the Dirty Harry 44 Magnum blaster sound effects in A New Hope during the drawbridge scene.

Listen to Luke screaming like a girl in Empire when he decides to die by letting himself fall to the bottom of Cloud City. In the original, Luke made no noise because it was a conscience decision to die rather than join the darkside. The scream changes the context of the scene making Luke sound like a big sissy. The scream isn't even Mark Hamill's voice. Also, in Empire, we have a new line inserted by Vader saying something about informing his commander and bringing his shuttle. The line was altered from the original where he simply says bitterly, "Bring my shuttle!". The scene's context was also changed because in the Original, he believed Luke was dead. That's why he was so bitter. In the Special Edition, his new line is devoid of any emotion. To top it off, that line wasn't even performed by James Earl Jones and you can tell.

We also have the horrendous Jedi Rocks and new ending song. Those simply can't be edited out because you would have gaps in the film.

I also like none of the improved CGI effects. They were so out of place because even though the film was remastered, it was still pretty grainy in spots. Then you would have a crystal clear CGI scene that just comes out of nowhere while the other effects were left alone. I don't care if Lucas wants to alter his films. He can do that all he wants. I just don't understand why he refuses to include both the Original and Special Edition versions on the upcoming DVD's. If he did that, threads like this probably wouldn't even exist. After all, the Special Editions are not the versions that brought in the biggest box office dollars or brought home any Academy Awards for that matter.

Mythos