Star Wars Conversions-Hit me with your best shot...

[mysticgohan17]

Now that I got one, I'd like to order the Star Wars on LD disks. But, again,
I'd like to knwo which ones to order, but not the ones that will be on the
Sept 2004 planned date. Can anyone tell me which ones to get for sure,
w/out worrying about making the mistake of getting the same one's planned
for DVD ??

Definitive Collection, on ebay if you look (thats where i got the pic )


Regular edition (aka "Faces" version)


I call this one the "Theatrical Poster set", these (I think) are the first laser discs to be produced of the series.


Hope I helped, somehow

[Gary Lightfoot]

Hi vhelp,

Welcome to the club!! Glad you've got a player, and just so you don't get the wrong disks, these are the best ones to get just for capture purposes -they're the THX 'Faces' set, which are the same as the Definitive edition, but are stored in a slightly different format, so that you don't have a perfect freeze frame but plays just as well and takes up less disk space. The DE is stored frame by frame and has more extras though. Here's a link for the Faces set:

Star Wars:

http://www.blam1.com/StarWars/8763-85.htm

Empire:

http://www.blam1.com/StarWars/8764-85.htm

Jedi:

http://www.blam1.com/StarWars/8765-85.htm

The Definitive Edition Box set:

http://www.blam1.com/StarWars/0693-84-03.htm

If you go for the box set, make sure it's the second pressing with the first 7 seconds of side 3 which has Leia welding on the Falcon. It's missing from the first pressing.

HTH

EDIT: Mystic posted while I was writing my reply. lol.

Anyway, I have all the above sets, and the Poster set as Mystic calls them aren't quite as good quality wise as the other two, but probably worth getting if you like collecting. The two sets contain nice pics and text that can probably be used to make the rear cover and inserts for your DVD box though.

Gary.

[Mythos2002]

That's great news VHelp. Well, there are two different sets that you can choose from. Actually one is a set and the other the 3 films sold separately. If you want the 9 LD set with the extras, look for Star Wars The Definitive Collection (I have this). It comes in a black box with white or light blue lettering. The other option is the Faces release. These are the ones that came out the same time the VHS tapes did in 1995. Each movie has a closeup of a character's face or actually half of their face. Star Wars has Vader, Empire has a Stormtrooper, and Jedi has Yoda.

Both of those options are the Widescreen LD's and both are the non SE versions.

I hope that helps some. You can find a ton of them most of the time on the world's favorite auction site.

Mythos

Man, you guys are too fast. Just look at the pictures they provided.

[vhelp]

Thanks guys.

..hmm... come to think of it.. that's right.. There IS a scene where Leia is
fixing (or lazer welding) on the/or a ship. Which movie was that one from ??

I'm only sorry that no-one carries even one of these LD disks in the rental
voults.

Now, I can't wait till my other "anonymous" player (w/ movies) come in
But in the mean time, I will look for those LD disks to purchase. Maybe I'll
start off w/ just one. Anybody know what the most I should be, if I'm only
going to get one of them ?? (ebay) If I get just one (for testing) I'll probably
get my favorite, "JEDI" - - the opening scene is just great.
Man, I can't wait to get these done and ready for my final Thanks Giving SW Bash !!

Wahoo !! I'm so excited,
-vhelp

[Perro Grande]

Speaking of all the different versions...

I have both the Definitive Edition and the "Faces" edition. My intuition tells me to use the CAV edition for making my DVD. Is this the recommended method, or is the CLV edition better for conversion?

And vhelp -- does this mean that we're all invited over to your place for a screening of your final DVD and free beer?

[vhelp]

And vhelp -- does this mean that we're all invited over to your place for a
screening of your final DVD and free beer?

Well, as long as you gotta good imagination.. the sky is only the limit :P

Come ThanksGiving evening, after we'all all cooked, and slaved over a hot
stove, and are Turkey bash is just about ready, we can all gather around
the internet, at ~5pm, pop in our SW Best Shot dvd conversion, and watch it
while we finish cooking, preparing and then finally, dig into our feast
of hardwork :P :P ..pass a few notes on some scenes, (via vcdhelp's great
webchat feature (we can open a semi-private SW-T-bash room) and discuss or
just talk about SW and fun/guffy stuff like that) Well, like I said, if you gotta
good imagination, sky's the limit

* https://www.videohelp.com/chat

I'm looking forward to mine, see you all in November (all are invited, it's
open house, or should it be by Invitation list only hehe.. ) :P
And, if/should therick does come back for a moment, he's more than
welcomed - - front row !!

Oh, and you guys bring the beer, I don't drink, just Snapple.

-vhelp

[Mythos2002]

I'll be there.

I was just wondering how you guys doing the manual IVTC are coming along. Let me know if any of you see any slowdowns during the Han/Greedo confrontation. On mine, the video looks like it goes into slow motion for about 5 seconds when Greedo says, "Jabba is through with.........". The video and audio never go out of sync and curiously, the audio is not affected.

This only occurs on my encode. The capture file is fine. The only thing I did was the Anamorphic resize and the auto IVTC filter with flicker prioritized and the deinterlace set to none. Thanks.

Mythos

[vhelp]

@ mythos,

I would check my .AVI file for any signs of glitches. It could be a Field that
got pushed up or down. This can cause the IVTC process to fail. Sometimes, it
will stay "failed" through out the remaining movie, or unless somewhere laters,
in your .AVI file, you have more frame or field glitches, that bring back the
IVTC pattern.

Any time you experience this, the above is why.

In my experience, the majority of failed or glitchy IVTC (after MPEG-2 encode)
is tipically results from poor .AVI consistancies.

If you're using an Analog capture card, this will probably about 100% of the time.

If you have a hardware devcie (ie, advc) then, chances are, that your source
LD had a glitch in a frame or field, and that through off the IVTC. This was
my case w/ my VHS ws version. Even though I used my ADVC-100, in my tape, it
had too many issues w/ the condition of the tape. There were far too many issues
mostly due the tapes age and rough use through many SW fans VCRs. But, the tape
is still priceless :P

I would do more experiements w/ other IVTC methods. There are many. And many
have options and param settings. I'm now trying my hand on another one, but I'm
always doing things like that. But, I can't always garentee success w/ your LD
because I don't have a LD disk to use as a reference or gauge. So, I can't really
give any recommendations on LD processes.. until I start working with them soon.

The bottom line is like this.. your source HAS to be prestine. I'm talking about
"glitch-free" of any issues.
If you are using a hardware based device, than that is the only question. Is
your media glitchy or is it something in the IVTC that does not like certain
scenes from your LD disk. I don't know. But, do keep on trying. You'll get it
no doubt. Just make sure that your sorce has no dropped frames or no duplicate
frames. These kill IVTC processes

-vhelp

[dphirschler]

I'll be there.

I was just wondering how you guys doing the manual IVTC are coming along. Let me know if any of you see any slowdowns during the Han/Greedo confrontation. On mine, the video looks like it goes into slow motion for about 5 seconds when Greedo says, "Jabba is through with.........". The video and audio never go out of sync and curiously, the audio is not affected.

This only occurs on my encode. The capture file is fine. The only thing I did was the Anamorphic resize and the auto IVTC filter with flicker prioritized and the deinterlace set to none. Thanks.

Mythos

Mine slowed down only in the editor (VirtualDub). The encode is fine. It only slowed down because it took extra time to apply the layer with alpha blending for the Greedo subtitles, and only in that scene. But again, only in the editor... and probably only because my processor is "slow" (1.4gHz). But the encode is nice and smooth.


Darryl

[dphirschler]

As for manual IVTC, I have achieved perfection. The pattern only changes three times I believe. Check my script on my website.

http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dhirschl/starwars/


Darryl

[Joel V]

VHelp-

Just FYI, there is no shortage of SW LDs on eBay, and they're priced at next to nothin'. You should be able to get a whole set for less than $60.00, maybe a little more for the box set. I bought the Definitive Collection set for $85.00 3 years ago...there's one currently at $49.00.

Good luck. What's up with the "anonymous" LD player?

-Joel

[Mythos2002]

I can't get AC-3 to work properly in my Pioneer DVD Player. I was wondering how MPEG-1 Audio Layer II at 384 or 224 sounds and if it would be a lot smaller than uncompressed PCM.


Thanks.

Mythos

[indolikaa]

MP2 @ 384kbps should be excellent quality.

[Mythos2002]

I was wondering if any of you with problems with dot crawl have found a way to correct it without any side effects in other areas. Here is a couple of pictures of my encodes. They don't look as good as some of seen, but not too bad. You can see a little dot crawl on the planet. The second picture shows my subtitles.






I hope these images aren't too large. Let me know what you think. Thanks.

Mythos

[vhelp]

hi mythos,

I think that this may be your capture card. I would try another cable to see
if those "hatches" disapear.

In my VHS captures, those dots (or "hatches") do not appear
But, I remember in my earlier days w/ my advc-100, that I had hatches like
the ones you see. I can't excactly pinpoint how they disappeared, but if I
remember correctly, I blaimed it on the "source"

So I would check:

* the source
* it's connections
* the cables
* or bye a monster one (they are usually blue, $39)

If you still can't figure out how to get rid of them (short of resorting to filtering)
then, I would try the more expansive route, buy a $39 monster cable and
see for sure. Otherwise, it's the source itself.

Hay, a good test would be to try your other versions, and also even give
your VHS a try at those same scenes to. You gotta narrow down the causes.

-vhelp

[Mythos2002]

Thanks for the information. How bad do you think the the pictures look? I don't notice the dot crawl on it as much on the TV. I can barely see it.

Thanks.

Mythos

[vhelp]

Its not bad.

I noticed it because you mentioned it, and I looked for it :P

IMO, the only way to know if it's really bad (besides an eye for detail) is to
observe a few scenes encoded with this dot crawl, and with out. But, since
that is impossible, I wouldn't drive myself crazy. But, it's probably not even
worth it. If it looks good on tv and you can not notice it, I wouldn't worry about it then.

If I ever get my copies of SW ld disks, I'll be sure to perform the same scenario,
and report back with my findings - - but knowing myself and my skills level,
I probably won't have this issue to report back with (unless it turns out
to be the media itself, or the LD device, or the capture device; or cables)

-vhelp

[dphirschler]

So I would check:

* the source
* it's connections
* the cables
* or bye a monster one (they are usually blue, $39)

You forgot to mention the player (unless you count that under "source"). LD players have widely varying picture outputs. Just look at some old reviews. Some players are highly regarded as having superb picture while others are dogged for having poor output. Also, it varies depending on your connection. Don't assume that because it's S-video that it will be better. Try composite video as well; you may be surprised. The video is stored in composite format on the disc, so you lose nothing by trying the composite output on your LD player.


Darryl

[Mythos2002]

I try it out when I get some more time. I hope my player is okay. It's a Pioneer CLD-D703.

Mythos

[nickel]

Hi Darryl,
I looked at your AVS script for the manual IVTC. I'm a newbie with that program, but it looks like you are referencing specific frame numbers. Does that mean the script will only work "as is" to your particular source AVI files? It doesn't look like the frame numbers match those on the CAV LDs (Def Coll).

Also, are your manual adjustments just to account for the pattern disruption because you are joining separate AVI files or are the manual adjustments needed during the course of a CAV LD side?

What would you recommend is my first step for trying to adapt your script to my source files? Or - can you point out the LD Side # and LD frame number that correspond to your script frame numbers so that I can find those frames on my own?

Thanks!

[dphirschler]

The function was made for the Definitive Collection. It may be slightly different with the CLV "Faces" set, but I wouldn't guess by much (if any). The frames are numbered starting at the first FOX Fanfare.

The pattern gets disrupted in three places. I will describe them here. I am going from memory here, so please forgive any errors:

starwars = duplicateframe(starwars,0)
starwars = duplicateframe(starwars, 49266)
starwars = duplicateframe(starwars, 88254)
starwars = duplicateframe(starwars, 180031)
starwars = duplicateframe(starwars, 180031)
starwars = duplicateframe(starwars, 180031)

The first line just adds a frame to get the pattern started. I believe the second line (49266) is where side-1 and 2 join. Luke is in the landspeeder looking for R2-D2. You may or may not have that one in your CLV discs (the "faces" set). The third line (88254) is a shot of C-3PO outside the cantina just before cutting to Han Solo's scene with Greedo. The last three (180031) is the start of the last side (side-5?). It is just after Luke said goodbye to Han Solo and they cut to a scene where they lower an R2 unit into an X-wing. I had to add three frames there to correct the pattern.

starwars = deleteframe(starwars,39414)# Luke in landspeeder
starwars = deleteframe(starwars,70603)# Greedo scene
starwars = deleteframe(starwars,81576)# Disturbance in the Force
starwars = deleteframe(starwars,144023)# lowering R2 into fighter
starwars = deleteframe(starwars,144023)

These lines remove the extra frames after the IVTC. You;ll notice the frame numbers are different. That is because it is now ~24 FPS progressive instead of 30 FPS. I forget why the third one is in there. That scene is the beginning of side-3 where Luke is practiceing with his light saber just after the destruction of Alderaan. I think that the pattern stayed on track, but an extra frame was generated at the disc change.

When I was making this function, I tested it with this line (uncommented):

#starwars = movie_c

That is viewing only the 'c' frames. The 'c' frames are the ones that were reassembled in IVTC the function (rgbdecomb).


Darryl

[Mythos2002]

Ah. That explains why mine appeared to go into slow motion for a few seconds in a couple of scenes. I didn't have it happen with Luke in the speeder, but I did have it towards the end of the Han and Greedo scene and the scene after the Artoo unit gets lowered into a ship. The specific places are when Greedo says, "Jabba is through with you....." and the other scene happens when you see a far shot of a guy running to an X-Wing. When I redo mine, I'm going to try you script as I have the Definitive Collection. Thanks for shedding light on this.

I do have a quick question. Can you still see the backs of Luke and Ben in frame 88254? That is where I first see 3PO in the center. It is just after Ben and Luke walk past.

I didn't have any noticeable problems with the other two films.

Thanks.

Mythos

[Mythos2002]

dphirschler,

I forgot to ask in my last post what audio format you are using and what you are using to convert to. Your page says 384kbps AC-3. Is that what your using? What did you use to convert it to AC-3? The reasons I ask is because my Pioneer DVD Player won't play AC-3 files I make with BeSweet and that is the only program I can find for free that does AC-3 conversion.

Thanks

Mythos

[FulciLives]

dphirschler,

I forgot to ask in my last post what audio format you are using and what you are using to convert to. Your page says 384kbps AC-3. Is that what your using? What did you use to convert it to AC-3? The reasons I ask is because my Pioneer DVD Player won't play AC-3 files I make with BeSweet and that is the only program I can find for free that does AC-3 conversion.

Thanks

Mythos

1.) A bitrate of 256kbps is more than enough for 2.0 AC-3 audio

2.) Although I haven't used it TMPGEnc DVD Author has a new fairly inexpensive AC-3 encoder option that works rather well ... or so say those that have used it. I'm lucky enough to have access to a really professional level AC-3 encoding option but it is expensive. I agree BeSweet should be avoided for 2.0 AC-3 conversion (I too have a Pioneer DVD player).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Let me stess that I use and love using TMPGEnc DVD Author I just haven't used the AC-3 plug-in.

[Mythos2002]

Thanks for the information. I would love to get Scenarist, but I could never afford $5000.00.

Mythos

[FulciLives]

Thanks for the information. I would love to get Scenarist, but I could never afford $5000.00.

Mythos

I never said Scenarist hehehe :P

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dphirschler]

I do have a quick question. Can you still see the backs of Luke and Ben in frame 88254? That is where I first see 3PO in the center. It is just after Ben and Luke walk past.

You can see just a small triangle of the back one of them in the lower left corner. Then it cuts to Han Solo inside the cantina. This is before IVTC. The frame number after IVTC is 70603.

As for AC3, I was using BeSweet, but I must find another solution. I may go PCM uncompressed and make a two-disc set (per movie).


Darryl

[Mythos2002]

I do have a quick question. Can you still see the backs of Luke and Ben in frame 88254? That is where I first see 3PO in the center. It is just after Ben and Luke walk past.

You can see just a small triangle of the back one of them in the lower left corner. Then it cuts to Han Solo inside the cantina. This is before IVTC. The frame number after IVTC is 70603.

As for AC3, I was using BeSweet, but I must find another solution. I may go PCM uncompressed and make a two-disc set (per movie).


Darryl

Thanks for the information Darryl. I did the two disc per movie option. I was I would have known about your script back then.

FulciLives,

I'll have to have a look at the tools to see what it is.


I have a question about my picts. Do the colors look okay? Should the picture be darker? Thanks.


Mythos

[vhelp]

hi mythos,

I can't really tell (at the moment) if your colors are too dark or light. But,
it looks like its on the light side. However, I see you have the advc-100, and
that's a good device for these LD projects :P but, I'm still waiting for mine.
Someone bought the SW (the ones that were selling for $50 on ebay) before
I could get them. I haven't seen them 3 for $50 since, and I don't feel like
spending $75 for those that leeched (I mean) bought it for the $50 they were
asking for, and then they turn around and sell them for $75 to $120 or more
.. "hay, one of a kind" lines or whatever Anyways..

I think that for the best quality (using your advc-100) you should stick to the
default colors, and not try to tweak them.

I've experimented w/ my VHS versions, and even though they are 720, I've
run a few tests on Anamorphic'izing them, by resizing the AR, sort of faking
them as a 852, and then downsize them like they do w/ DVD's to 720 (using
the squeez) Mind you, I'm still testing this out, but I thought that my VHS
tests came out ok. But, the tape I'm working with really has lots of noise.
Probably too much, and it's sort of tainting my abilities. I really need to get
my hands on the SW set on LD soon as I can

-vhelp

[FulciLives]

I have a question about my picts. Do the colors look okay? Should the picture be darker? Thanks.

Colors look fine to me but as you know things look different on a TV than on a PC monitor.

I would try not to mess around with the colors and or brightness/contrast etc.

Most important is not to do too many conversions from YUV to RGB and back again etc.

That can screw up your luminance levels.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman