Star Wars Conversions-Hit me with your best shot...

[Gary Lightfoot]

They look excellent to me.

Very natural colours, and no red dot crawl either! I tried Virtual Dubs chroma smooth filter, and that seemed to fix the dot crawl for me, but after trying it on the capture of side 3, it doesn't seem to be making any differerence.

I thought I'd cracked it too....

I've also found that my 'new' sound card introduces pops and crackles, so while it removes all hiss, it's no real improvement, so I'm back to the on-board sound again...

Oh well.

Gary.

[surreal]

Hi,

I tried frameserving from virtualdub to tmpegenc and using the suggested filter. It seems a bit better, but the VERTICAL scan lines are still visible and there are still some moving bands on areas of red. I was wondering if the following would make a difference:

1) I'm on a PAL system in the UK capturing from the WS VHS Original Trilogy, should I be using Interlaced or non-Interlaced for capture/encoding?

2) There are a lot of PAL versions in my capture software (PAL_B, PAL_I, PAL_M etc). Which one is correct for the UK as I've been using B.

3) I was using MJpeg codec at 19. Would using HuffyUV likely give better results? I have a 120gb HDD free so space isn't particularly an issue.

Sorry for all the questions... The clipped image below shows the problem I'm having

[Mythos2002]

Hi Gary,

I'm sorry to hear about your audio issues. When you were talking about the hiss before, was it evident in the movie itself or just in the quiet moments before the film starts. I only noticed it during the quiet moment before the Fox Logo. The Fox Logo sounds bad, but the audio gets much better when the film itself starts. I didn't notice any hiss during the film even in the quiet moments unless it is very slight. If you noticed hiss during the movie, let me know which one and it which point, and I will check mine.

I can't help too much with the dot crawl because I just left it alone in mine and don't notice it that much on TV. I know you are in the UK, but are you using PAL or NTSC LD's? I think the problem may be more of a NTSC thing, but I'm not sure.

Surreal,

I would just try a short clip of that scene with Huffyuv. I can't speak for everyone because you have people that swear by MJPEG and others that swear by Huffyuv. I don't use either anymore since I'm capturing in DV which is already compressed (not as much though). I myself had better quality with Huffyuv.

Mythos

[Gary Lightfoot]

Hi Mythos,

The hiss is there even during the movie. Fortunately I can remove it using the Goldwave hiss filter which does a good job. I might just get another sound card though. Will the SoundBlaster 4.1 be OK? I'm using one for the spdif out to an av amp, and it seems fine, but I haven't tried it for recording. They're only £13 for the OEM version which seems good value to me.

Any recommendations that aren't too expensive?

My disks are NTSC too btw.

Cheers.

Gary.

[youbecha]

BTW, I have the ORIGINAL episodes in Letterbox, on VHS. Bought them years ago...prior to the special edition releases.

[spiderman2k1]

"surreal" please sate what capture card you are using? You are doing VHS ten if I was you I would use a ATI AIW with MMC 8.1 with noise reduction and the Macrovision patch for ATI and a Sima copy master. Or use a good JVC VCR for noise reduction but they cost about $300.00 dollars and up ATI AIW radeon's you can pick up the old model for $33.00 dollars at

www.pricewatch.com

Or you could just buy used Laser Disc on ebat and a used Laser Disc player for cheep money.

[surreal]

Hi guys,

I seem to have found the answer - I had VirtualVCR set to S_Video in for the source (which seemed natural as I'm using an S_Video lead), I changed this to Video Composite and it has all cleared up!

For the record I'm using the vivo from a GeForce 4 Ti4600 on an AMD XP2000+, Win2000, 512mb RAM

I'd still like to know the differences between the PAL types if anyone knows?

cheers

[Gary Lightfoot]

Guys,

I'm thinking of converting the Ulead captured avi files to a huffyuv format - it comes out considerably smaller - around 20%, so I'm saving around 15gig per file.

Does this sound like a good idea or will it cause problems?

TIA

Gary.

[spiderman2k1]

"surreal" PAl is better for film it's 25 frame's a second NTSc is 29.97 frames a second. This can give you a better idea of Pal and NTSC

https://www.videohelp.com/dvd

https://www.videohelp.com/svcd

https://www.videohelp.com/vcd

NTSC I think is better for Sport's giving 29.97 frame's a second. I know some one in Pal land and he does not like PAl say's it's choppy I'm in NTSC and have some PAL DVD's but never had a problem with them being choppy. Some one that made a post on this Star Wars' forum has screen show from laser Disc NTSC and PAL and the PAL version do look better.

[vhelp]

Hi guys :P

I'm back. For some strange reason, I've lost my e-mail notifications again
on this thread I think this makes my 4th or so times hehe.. anyways ..

@ gary,

I too am sorry for your SC issues. I'm still using mine :P But, I don't seem
to be experiencing any of those isues. Unless you want to hear some samples
from mine VHS version.

BTW, ..again, as to the reason why you are experiecing those cross-hatches
is because of the 411 issue w/ DV. On the other hand, if you are not using
any DV devices, they can still be present (depending upon the capture card
and codec you used)

First, don't feed your .avi source directly into TMPG (or cce) but instead,
you must first apply a 411 filter, because it also fixed the blues too.
There is a filter for vdub and avisynth.
virtualdub - - - (Filter) - (vdub) - (DV 411) - (by Xesdeeni) - 411Helper.zip
avisynth - - (Filter) - (AVIsynth) - (DV 411) - (by xxx) - ReInterpolate411.zip

You only need to search for the .zip filenames. Just ignore my other naming
conveniton to the of leftside of filename.zip - (there there for my aid)

As for the vdub one, apply the 411 filter at the last line in your vdub filters
window. After any resizing or NR filtering or whatever you guys do. It should
always be the last in the line.

-vhelp

[Gary Lightfoot]

vhelp,

is the 411 filter the same as that used in the chroma smoother in vdub?

I was using the 422 filter which on one occasion seemed to help, but subsequent renderings it didn't seem to make any difference. I was wondering if I did something else without realising.

I'll look for the 411 filter and add it anyway.

Thanks again!

Gary.

[vhelp]

gary,

at the moment, I don't feel confident enought to discuss these two filters
to the extream

But, doom9 has many open discussion on this 411 issue, and FredThompson
is the person mainly w/ most experience w/ this.

But, the 411 filter (for vdub) is the one I use only. I can't say for avisynth
version though i used it a few times, and ended up resolting to vdub's version by Xess... and yes, this filter will clean up any of those issues w/
the blue and read areas.

-vhelp

[surreal]

Thanks for all the advice, I've just finished capping ESB again with the composite setting and it looks much better. I'm gonna encode with NR on default, the rmpal I was recommended before and I'll give the 411 a go as well.

I know the difference between PAL & NTSC, what I was wondering was why there is PAL_B, PAL_D, PAL_G, PAL_I, PAL_M listed in the video settings of capture software....?

I'll let you know how it turns out once the encoding has finished in a couple of days

[vhelp]

#14

@ gary,

I can't believe that at all this time, I was right on the very thread that talks
about your issues - 411 bugg.

I believe that thread alone should and will answer your questions on this
issues, and then some :P

To all, w/ regard to DV and 411 bug .. .. ..

Links to DV discussions/issues, and 411 Filters:
-------------------------------------------------------

** More Info on DV issues **
** The Chroma Upsampling Error and The 4:2:0 Interlaced Chroma Problem
* http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html
** ..and from doom9 site **
* Fixing NTSC DV 4:1:1 Chroma

** virtualDUB filter by Xesdeeni of vcdhelp & doom9 **
* http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/411Helper.zip <--- Right_click
* Xesdeeni's website: --> http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/

** AVIsynth filter by trbarry of doom9 **
* http://www.trbarry.com/ReInterpolate411.zip

-vhelp

[vhelp]

Update..

I've revised my previous post above :P
-vhelp

[spiderman2k1]

I really think it would be cool if we trade Star Wars DVD for another Star Wars DVD. So both parties send the same movie out to each other. This would be a good way to help one another. On the encode. This is not bootlegging since we are trading the same movie we own already.

[Gary Lightfoot]

It's a pity we all don't live nearer (or next to Mythos or vhelp ), then we could all pop round for an evenings encoding and idea swapping etc.

Heck, we could even watch a Star Wars movie!!

That would be a good night wouldn't it?

Thanks again for the links vhelp - I'm trying both interpolate and follow and see which one cures the problem.

Cheers.

Gary.

[vhelp]

my favorite is the 411Helper filter for vdub.

I only use avisynth for the IVTC - I use a non-exteranal version of this.
In a way, it's more a manual IVTC process, because the method does not
discard any bad fields like decomb or others do. (assuming that this is
what those external filters do of course)

I know I've demo'ed this before, but here goes again ... my process is a
simple one.

.AVI source --> vdub --> avisynth[ivtc] --> vdub --> TMPG's encoding.

I know there is a lot of swaping, but this is my ultimate method of encoding
projects of all sorts. Also, this does not seem to alter the colorspace or
taint the quality to a degree I have yet to notice. It works, and so I'm sticking
to it !! :P !!
There are other reasons why I use this method, but I'm not going to go into
the "why's" here.

hmm... I need to redo an app I did some time ago (but del'ed the source)
that capture the clipboard to my pic app, for minipulation and other fun
stuff ... I was also wondering if I could do a 411 util (delphi) ... (just talking
out loud here, hehe) anyways..

Well, I'm off to more SW test encodes :P

-vhelp

[spiderman2k1]

For all you Laser Disc user's On my Panasonic E80H if I record at XP mode thats the one hour mode. And record right to the DVD-RAM then bring it right to the PC for editting. You will have a DVD that look's just like the Laser Disc but the movie will be just like the Laser Disc is it on three side's then you will have to use three DVD-R's. This is the best way from my testing. do not record to the hard drive first as going to the hard drive you will have to dubb back to DVD-R this rencoding. That's why it best to go right to DVD-RAM thenedit on the PC. Or if you have a DVD+R recorder record at the hightest setting then use TMPG author to make the MPEG 2 come back they just burn back to DVD+R or DVD-R

[vhelp]

hay spiderman2k1,

I'm going to be posting a Standard VCD sample clip shortly, case you're
interested. anyways..

I was wonder, how (if you have the ws VHS SE versions) how it would come
out on your E80H

My Stnd VCD looks great, considering it's only 1150 bitrate I like it a lot!!
Geesh, if my Dazzle DVC I had ever looked this great in it's hardware vcd,
I'd 'ove ben a god here. Just kidding. But, darn, who knows if I would'ove
ben still using it today, if I got this kind of sample quality. Oh yeah, even
the dark scenes seem to come out pretty good. However, pdvd seems to
suck at VCD output quality and this time around, is wdvd that is winning
on the quality. It's fantasitc hehe :P

can't wait to post the sample. But, which one to post Any takers w/ a
curiosity on a specific scene ??

-vhelp

[spiderman2k1]

Tip for all VHS to DVD Star War's people. Some of the macrovision George lucas use's on Star Wars tape seem's to be really hard to get around. Empire Strike back I think is the hardest one. I used a sima box no good still had problem with my Panasonic E80H. Work around. I also have a Dazzle 2 that has TV out put. Tape the VHS S-Video or composite put it in the Dazzle 2 or another capture card that has TV out then from that capture card run it into the Sima copy master. This will fix the problem. I still did not get the Close caption subtitle's. Or they might not be on the VHS tape's. The Panasonic E80H I would say is better then my Dazzle 2 and ATI AIW for most thing but no one capture card or DVD recorder does every thing the best.

[Gary Lightfoot]

Ok guys,

looks like I've found what my dot crawl problem might be - the deinterlacing.

I've also found that in some scenes with bright flashes such as explosions and Luke/Vaders lightsaber fight, there are some obvious comb lines. I can totaly eliminat them and reduce the dot crawl from edges by using some forms of deinterlacing. The trouble is, the deinterlacing can soften the images, and introduce a slight jaggy effect, so I can't seem to win!

The scenes that produce obvious horizontal lines can be fixed by just deinterlacing those separately, then rejoining in the authoring process, but it would be nice to just use a 'one for all' ivtc or deinterlacing method.

I can't seem to find dgfrafts decomb filters or website - it comes up as 'page cannot be displayed' :

http://shelob.mordor.net/dgraft

Tmpgs ivtc does a good job generaly except for the marching ants at edges, and the occasional horizontal line as mentioned. Any better results using vdubs deinterlacing? I tried some and they seemed to work, but with the softening effect.

Any tips here appreciated.

Gary.

[Mythos2002]

Gary,

I'm not sure what to tell you since I only used TMPGEnc's IVTC, but check your e-mail.

Mythos

[spiderman2k1]

"Gary Lightfoot" I know what your talking about but the Panasonic E80H does not have any of those problem's. I get those with my PC capture card's. IF you have ATI AIW try video soap. It's a grat noise reduction filter.

[dphirschler]

Donald Gaft's website is here:

http://neuron2.net/index.html


Darryl

[spiderman2k1]

For ever one working on VHS to DVD. I really do not think it's worth the time to even make these DVD's. Macrovision on these VHS tape's are very good even my Sima box has problem's but I can get around them if I want. After watch the VCD seton my APEX it not as bad as watch them on my old Sony DVD player that has muddy color's. Still the best way is laser Disc I just bought another THX set from ebay the first Star wars THX had some kind of grip problem on my Laser Disc player so some selling all three THX one's for $40.00 dollars could not say no. Most people sell Star Wars buy it self for $20.00 dollars.

If you need to buy the VCD set go to http://www.coolvcd.com/ this company make VCD's for all the other seller's

[Gary Lightfoot]

Me again.

Well, I've fiddle with various settings on various filters, and the best one seems tmpg's own deinterlacing filter. I can deinterlace on some scenes where it's artefacts don't notice, and use normal ivtc for those where it does. I just can't seem to find a one stop method for the whole lot though.

oh well...

Gary.

[dphirschler]

I thought I would post my progress so far. I've done several captures, encodes, and test DVDs so far. I am pleased with the results so far.

I set up a webpage documenting my progress.
http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dhirschl/starwars/

I wanted to address several topics I've been reading about through this thread.

Greedo's subtitles
I found the solution for perfect subtitles during the Greedo scene in the cantina. Since I cropped the black bars upon capturing, I had to regenerate the subtitles. I decided to place them in the frame (overlaying the video) as it was in the theater. But doing so turned out to be the challenge.

After much effort, I finally have them in there perfectly, with nice alpha blended edges and a slight drop shadow too. I posted my AVIsynth script on my webpage. I am using the newest version of AVIsynth (currently 2.54) which has an "Overlay" command. I will post my bmp images of the subtitles and the masks later.

Capture with subtitles:

http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dhirschl/starwars/greedo_sub.jpg

The AVIsynth script:
http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dhirschl/starwars/greedo.avs

By the way, the font (used on the Definitive LD) is "Alt Gothic" (also on my webpage). I got it off my Corel Draw CD.

Capturing
For my DVD, I am capturing and encoding at 704 width rather than 720 as just about everybody else is doing. I seriously doubt the LD's resolution is even as high as 704. I certainly can't tell the difference. But I gain lots of bitrate bandwith if I go 704 width.

I am also cropping upon capturing. That way I save lots of harddrive space.

I am using the composite video output from my LD player even though it has an S-video output. I tried S-video first and I noticed a horizontal moire pattern of sorts in certain parts of the film, most notably during the Han solo/Greedo scene. Since the video is recorded in composite form on the LD, I have no problem capturing the composite signal.

The THX logo
My plan for the THX logo is to re-create it as a widescreen version. To do this, I will capture the THX logo from "Ice Age" and then overlay the "THX Laserdisc" logo from the Star Wars LD inside the blue box. I'll post the results when I get it done.

Audio
I captured the audio at 48 kHz through my S/PDIF interface on my soundcard. It sounds spectacular! I also captured the commentary from the analog channel on the LD. I plan to boost the voices and then mix in (at a low volume) the movie audio. Since there are long passages where they say NOTHING, this seems to be the best option. I am encoding AC3 in BeSweet.

widescreen idea
I have an idea about the widescreen. Short of borrowing somebody's PAL LD set, I think it may be possible to get a nice digital highres widescreen capture if you have the right hardware. First of all, you have to wait until a station that broadcasts HDTV airs Star Wars. Then, you have to be able to capture or record digitally, and in high-res (HDTV format). If you can do that, then you have a great source to work from.

chapters
I've done some work on the chapter stops. I actually recorded the movie while I indexed to each chapter. Then I matched up frame for frame and recorded the frame number. I will use that for my celltimes.txt file. I will post that on my webpage too when I am done.

Some screen captures:
http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dhirschl/starwars/def1_1.jpg
http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dhirschl/starwars/def1_2.jpg
http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dhirschl/starwars/def1_3.jpg
http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dhirschl/starwars/def1_4.jpg
http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dhirschl/starwars/def1_5.jpg
http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dhirschl/starwars/def1_6.jpg
http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dhirschl/starwars/def1_7.jpg
http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dhirschl/starwars/def1_8.jpg
http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dhirschl/starwars/def1_9.jpg

Tonight I plan to work some more on manuallt inverse telecining without having to convert to YUY2 or YV12. I've notice that the 24bit RGB captures have a bit better color range, especially in the darks. I believe I can use "doubleweave" along with "pulldown" to achieve what I want. I am getting more and more confident in AVIsynth, so I at this point, I think I can work it out even without those two commands.

I will be happy to share any and all work I have done when I am through. I am especially interested in your opinions of the Greedo subtitles.


Darryl

[Gary Lightfoot]

Hi Darryl,

Fantastic work! Love the subtitles! I hope my results come out like that - I'd probably be happy if they were half that good!

You've also made my day - in the capture with Leia, I can see that you also have the red edge 'dot crawl' that I have too. It's been really bugging me how to remove it, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who has it.

I'm looking forward to looking at your website too. The guys on here have been fantastic help to me with plenty of advice and giving me pointers and filters etc to try and help me. I can't thank you all enough.

Cheers.

Gary.

[spiderman2k1]

"dphirschler" Nice website!!! what capture card are you using? are you NTSC or PAL. Your pic's I would say look better them mine but I did find a VBR setting in my Laser Disc player when turn on seem's to take out some bleeding of small color's.