Star Wars Conversions-Hit me with your best shot...

[FulciLives]

OMG FulciLives

I guess my that either my LD player is REAL bad, or that my composite DV input on my canon cam is bad. (or combination of both)

Just comparing your shot from the ESB NTSC WS LD with mine a bit up.

(/me is now depressed)

Cheers

Sorry! Didn't mean to make you so depressed :P

I've been thinking of getting a CANOPUS ADVC-100 so as not to EVER hae to deal with A/V synce issues again but sometimes those simple analog based TV tuner type cards PAY OFF since you don't have to use the DV format and the problems it has (i.e., 4:1:1 color sample).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vhelp]

@ fulci,

yeah, I'm w/ you on the colors thing w/ "A New Hope". It's the same way
on my WS vhs version. But I figure, (for NTSC'ers) that its on all our LD's
VHS media's that, we have to settle on the fact that THIS IS normal. And,
that IT IS ok to process AS IS :P

IMO, definately get the WS, if one is looking for it on VHS tape. Weather
it be for hobby, fun or entertainment (the process, that is) WS is the better
route. FS is overkill, even if it's P&S, it's still fullscreen. And that means
more bitrate.
.
.
Also, IMO, it's best to encode as DVD specs.. that is, 720 x 480. I found my
ATI-TV Wonder card (ATW) is caps great at 704 (later, to add the 8 pixels
for a perfect fit/look)
.
.
And, as for the Aspect Ratios (AR) I'm greatful to DJRumpy and fulci for their
assistace and guidance (guide) and this important matter.
It's also my opinion that encoding w/ the original aspect ratio is
key to successful final output quality. And, that means, 720 x 480, not 352 x 480
or anything else, unless your goal is different, like for space reasons etc.
But for truest and closest to orignality, it's gotta be 720 x 480 and with the
correct AR - specially if you're aiming for DVD disks, which happens to be
my aim.

I'm very excited (conciderng I comprimised) about finally doing some fun
and challenging work w/ Star Wars. Actually, some of my test encodes I
performed this evening proved very worthy of this endeavor. I can't wait
to complete it - Disk #1 to be released :P to my AD-1500, and perhaps, if
I get AC3 going, even that. I'm not familiar w/ AC3 and DVD encodes, so
I have some researching/learning to do in that area.
.
.
And, given my excitement above, I find that even my test encodes come out
looking (imo) better than those P&S that even Satelite puts out, which is
at usual, tainted/jimmied. Not to mention, that they jimmy the IVTC on these
three movies. Last time I tried, thre were jerks in the space fight scenes,
where they are chased into the dome. On my VHS, it's a perfect IVTC and
w/out any jerks !!

So, for the record peoples, I'm w/ fulci on this one. The source is, AS IS,
with respect to the color tones. That's how they mastered it on the VHS/LD's !!
And, there is nothing wrong w/ your TV sets or DVD players etc.
There's room to play around w/ some settings and tweaks and all. And, if
you want the color tones other than NTSC, move to PAL land
.
.
pfew !! Now that thats ben cleared in the air, lets continue w/ the
"-Hit me with your best shot...", as the subject says :P :P :P

Mine is Widescreen SE VHS NTSC, what's yours, hehe..

From the Video Workstation of,
-vhelp 2158

[Mythos2002]

I'm glad to see the thread active again.

I said a little earlier that I had a few jumps in the picture like the IVTC went bad. I just went back and checked my encode and didn't see any. They only appear on the DVD-RW I made. I wonder if it has anything to do with the GOP. I used what was recommended for the numbers. I checked the box for Detect Scene Change and deselected the box for Output bitstream for edit (Closed GOP). Should I have left the GOP closed?

The jumps are only minor, but I would like to get rid of them if possible. The jumps look like a frame is missing or something. They don't interfere with audio sync or anything else though. I'm using DVD-Lab to author. My test DVD-RW didn't have any chapters. Hopefully, I can resolve this problem. I may switch over to TMPEng DVD Author if DVD-Lab keeps acting up.

Mythos

[vhelp]

hi mythos,

yes, it may be due to the GOP settings. I've yet to start any DVD authoring,
but I've had some minor experiences where I'd see a slight jidder somewheres.
I blaimed it on the strange GOP settings I was using. But, I'm not to sure
about your other settings, (closed GOP, for instance, and scene change)
are some of the others tid-bits that can cause problems. But, I'm not too
sure on this either. Still, I would find the correct GOP settings that are
DVD compliant (and recommended) and go with those, and see if you do
experience the issues you described earlier.

You might wanna try re-encoding those scenes that give you issues. Keep
the .aiv's. Don't delete them, till you figured out what's going on. Course,
w/ your ADVC just re-capture it (DV it) and go from their, if you need to.

So, see if you can get a hold of DVD compliant GOPs and use those, and
re-test your DVD authoring. I'd be interested in hearing what your experience
becomes w/ this.
.
.
I've heard some use 1,4,1,1 and 1,5,2,1 but I can't quite figure out where
they got those number, though some say they got from CCE, but CCE is
a bit cryptic in the GOP layout. You don't know if you are getting those no's
in the right or w/ CCE. For example, this is confusing to me:
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
M= [ 3] N/M=[ 5]
GOP header: every [ 1] x N) frames(s)
SEQ header: every [ 1] GOP(s)
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----



-vhelp

[proton]

19 pages is too much for me to read

Just wanted to let you all know that according to the latest rumor, the 4,5,6 episodes of SW will come out on DVD at the end of 2004!!
So I'll just wait a year instead of converting my VHS tapes

[Mythos2002]

Hi Vhelp,

I believe I used 1 4 2 1 18 or 1 4 1 1 18 for my GOP settings. I just checked one of my VOB's from the problematic areas and it looks like the jumps occur in them and not in my encode. I'm going to try reencode a small clip and test it as you've suggested to see if that helps. Thanks.

Proton,

Yes the DVD's are supposed to be out November 4th of 2004. Each movie is supposed to be released separately instead of in a boxed set. I don't know the reason for that. Also, there is nothing to indicate that the Original versions which I am converting are going to be the ones released. I can only assume until I hear more that the Special Editions are going to be the only versions released. I don't like the Special Editions personally. If you like those versions, then I would just wait as you've said. However, if you are after the Original Versions, this may be the only way to get them on DVD.

Mythos

[vhelp]

Evening guys.

@ proton,

I think I can speak for most everyone here that have the various versions
floating around since 1995's first release on VHS, (I think) that one good
reason or excuse for endeavoring these tapes (and LD's) are because the
chances are, that the DVD's (when they do finally come out) will probably
be different from those that have ben put out already on VHS/LD's, and as I
understand it, they have three versions to date already. So, what more can
they do, ie, editing more junk; or cutting scenes; or adding in documtaries
perhaps, and maybe a few more junk things to check out. Actually, I woudn't
mind looking into the documentaries, if they do add that in as "a bonus"
feature but really, they've done and then some three times. The DVD's
will be whatever "milk" they could get form us (yet again) which (imo) we
are all but bored w/ this "Star Wars hype that has ben dragging on, for years
and years and years (the opening scene, "...A long time ago.. .. ..") rings a
bell The anticipation and agrenlyn (spelling) and potential for excitement
is all but gone by now (or rather, another year, IF he doesn't TOY w/
us again)

For me, I'm just doing this for the hobby and challenge, and to put once
and for all, this baby ta bed :P oh, and for nastolgic reasons too.
Plus, if anything, these versions we do have right now, will probably be
limited "original's" no longer to be available.., including DVD (especially)
So, you bet, there is a reason (or another one to add) as to why we are all
endeavoring at this Star Wars stuff

@ mythos,

Yes the DVD's are supposed to be out November 4th of 2004. Each movie is supposed to be released separately instead of in a boxed set.

yeah, he did this exact same thing w/ the VHS versions too. In my first tape,
the first 10 minutes of "the making" was mentioned, this month, "A New Hope"
and next month, "" and following, "". It's all just hype, ta get us blood
going, ya know.


In continuing the discussion. . .

Now, as for final quality. I know I can't expect DVD, because it's not gonna
happen. And, I know this. But, as a challenge, I hope to at least acheev
VHS quality. I can still enjoy the viewing, only it'll be utilized w/ the aid
of CD/DVD media instead. That's a plus and a luxery, when you can perform this
other format. People just don't get it. But, I do see lots of VHS to DVD questions
and now-one jumps down at them and say, forget it (unless it's really crap )
(or, deserves it )
.
.
On that note.. I will endeavor to post a clip or two, at my VHELPS Samples..
thread for a taste of VHS flavor.. after crossing VHELP's hands, we shall
see what can be done even w/ this tape format :P

My first attempt at demoing a pic was (imo) a rather poor one. I felt that the
quality had to depic "darker" color tone. error, error. I've sence reset my
ADVC unit's IRE value to reflect the correct color space. I guess I needed a
dose of smiten here.. cause I got spoiled w/ what I felt should be the
proper setting (way back when I had my first ADVC problem w/ color tones) long
story I'll spare you all with. But, I've sense used it, and now feel that I
maybe should take a "change" and see what I get in results. And, as such, I
was surprised to see what I feel is pretty good for VHS. So, I'll continue on
w/ using IRE 0 from this point on.. which means new testing for other things

As for the IRE 0 setting, my SW color tones are lighter. However, they ARE
suppose to be this way. And, thanks to Fulci for his many sample pics, proved
that this was normal and correct. Thanks Fulci again.
.
.
One thing to note on this color tone issue. I do know that my DC10+ card does
produce darker tones, but DOES NOT produce the same negative results as my ADVC
when I set the IRE to PAL (7.4) and encode the source. The DC10+ must sample
the color space w/ a 4:2:2 rate. At first, I thought that the ADVC did this too,
but I'm havin my doubts. More research has to be done on this - later.
.
.
I will also test my DC10+ on this too, because I'm curious to see the "darker"
color tones I get on this. Which would leave me beleaving in dissbeliefe other
wise, if both units prove competely different results. But, heck, I've also
got my SIMO SCC; SIMA CED-CM; TBC-100 and other devices to test this theory out
(again) to be sure, since my previous testing were done a year ago, and I can't
remember the results, nor all the reasons behind them all

Well, like I say, this is a hobby, and as such, "are no rules" to abied by.
Yeah, if you don't like it, don't do it, and continue doing what you were doing
last. As for me, I'm not gonna hurry this project. It'll be a slow one, cause
there is no time-frame. Lucas can keep his hype.

If I ever get to the DVD Authoring stages, I'm planning on a very simple menu
and short-theme music to go w/ it. There is a nice one on my Spiderman DVD disk
that I sort of like. It just loops - kind of boring, but it works.
.
.
Yeah, "A New Hope" is a great movie, but my favorate is ESB. I love the opening
scene on the ice planet. It really gets things going - rock solid (IMO) And,
Billy D-Williams is great it in it. Glad he continued in the 3rd one too.

@ mythos,

Sorry you are still having isues w/ your IVTC. Bummer. But, I'm not too great
w/ AVS scripting and their respective Filters. Decomb used to be the only one
I used, but I never did quite get to use the full potential of it's parameters,
and now it has broken out (advanced) to other features, and I'm still not to par
w/ the original version. But, if you say your VOBs are only effected, then I
would say that somewhere in between, it's screwing up your flags for the
pulldown.

Tip maybe.. Have you tried using pulldown.exe (or it's gui version) separately ??

Otherwise, I'd say that it's the DVD Authoring app that is causing your IVTC
problems.
.
.
Burning a test sample to a regular MPEG-2 encode (ie, xSVCD) and play that scene
should rule this out if anything. If it works, then it's an Authoring problem,
if it doesn't, then it's an encode problem. And, I'd try the pulldown.exe as a
last resort.

Sorry for the long post guys.

Post -- EDITED -- by vhelp

-vhelp 2161

[Mythos2002]

Well, I may have finally done it. I'm doing two disc versions of each film, so I'm only doing an hour or a little over at one time.

Anyway, I haven't tried pulldown.exe yet, but I did reencode using 2 pass VBR at 7000 ave 7900 max and 2000 min. I realize I may have been able to go higher, but I didn't want to chance having any bitrate spikes since I used uncompressed audio at 1536. Those bitrates worked fine since I'm splitting each film over 2 DVD-R's.

I watched the DVD-RW from end to end and didn't notice any of the jumps in the video I had experienced previously when I used CBR. I also still used the same version of DVD-Lab for my authoring. The only thing I changed was from CBR to 2 pass VBR and the bitrate settings.

I do have a couple of questions though. My test DVD-R with menus and all only adds up to 3.6GB. Should I have brought up the bitrate? The disc is 63 minutes long.

Also, I clipped 8 off of the left so that the image would fill the screen. I didn't realize until I was almost done with the encode that I didn't need to do that because that black bar on the edge doesn't show up on the TV. I read that here: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=194051
I didn't see any negative effects of doing this when I watched the image both on the PC and on the TV. Is doing that going to hurt me when I watch it on a 16:9 TV. My encode has been resized to 16:9.

What I'm scared about is this article which I found on this very site.
http://www.geocities.com/dxaussie01au/myth.html

I'll wait until I see what you guys say before I burn a final DVD-R. Right now I only have a DVD-RW burned. So far, I am pretty happy with the quality of the audio and video.

One other question. I made 4:3 menus because the 16:9 menus look screwed up on my 4:3 TV. When I get a 16:9 set will the menus be okay by just having a black border around them or will they get all messed up? A 16:9 TV is a few years off, but I want to do this project only once and get it right the first time. I may go back and do single disc versions later if those dual layer +R writers and media really work out. I'm not getting involved in all of that until I hear what others who have already purchased those things give them the green light.
Thanks.

Mythos

[geek rock]

What I'm scared about is this article which I found on this very site.
http://www.geocities.com/dxaussie01au/myth.html

i skimmed through this article.. what exactly is this guy talking about? is he just complaining that his 16:9 TV can't zoom properly?

in regards to your menu question - it's certainly possible to make menus that are both 16:9, and 4:3. but the information that is going to be cropped out for the 4:3 menu must be non-essential - because it'll be cropped out.

here's an example: my "back to the future" DVD set.. here's how the menu looks with my DVD player set to 4:3 letterbox mode. (i tried it with 4:3 pan and scan mode and got exactly the same image):



and here's the menu with the player set to 16:9 mode. ( i stretched the image to the correct ratio with photoshop, so it appears correctly):



you can either do this, or have your menus in just 16:9 - your DVD player will automatically add the borders if the DVD player is set up for 4:3 mode, same as it would for 16:9-tagged video streams.

how you actually author the menus, though (in either case), depends on your authoring program.

-Mark

[Mythos2002]

Thanks for the information Geek Rock. The problem I have when I make 16:9 menus and display them on my 4:3 TV when the DVD Player is in 4:3 mode is that the buttons and text get totally out of alignment. I believe it has to do with subpictures. I don't know if I can get around that with DVD-Lab, but I know more expensive authoring programs will let you have two menu systems and a flag that tells your player which one to use depending on your TV display.

Do you think that cropping the the 8 off of the left side in clip frame will hurt anything when I play it on a 16:9 TV? It doesn't hurt anything on my PC or my current 4:3 TV. My output was still 16:9 720x480.

I had one other question. I cliped 104 from the top and 100 from the bottom to get rid of the black bars and used Full Screen (keep aspect ratio). It was suggested to me to clip only 60 from top and 60 from the bottom and use Full Screen instead of Full Screen (keep aspect ratio). Will there be any difference in either method? Which is the best. I did a test encode and didn't see anything different. I don't have a 16:9 TV though.

Anyone know of a good program to check properties? On my encodes, I have to use AVICodec because Windows doesn't show detailed properties for some reason. Anyway, no matter what I do, AVICodec always says my encodes are 2.21:1 instead of 2.35:1.


Thanks.

Update: I took my DVD-RW to the store and had it tested on a couple of 16:9 TV's. One was a Panasonic Plasma and the other was a Hitachi rear projection with a built-in DVD Player.

On the Panasonic, everything including the 4:3 menus looked okay as far as apect ratio goes. The picture wasn't the best, but passable considering the analog source. The only problem I had was that the audio would constantly stutter. I have noticed this on two Panasonic DVD players when I use uncompressed PCM. Does Panasonic DVD Players have problems with that type of audio? Do you specifically have to change a setting in the DVD Player's menu to play PCM?

On the Hitachi, the picture was terrible. That may be because I was standing right up on top of it. The video was displayed correctly and the audio played fine. The only thing was that the 4:3 menus were left at 4:3 with gray bars on the sides. I can live with that as the buttons where not misaligned like they would be if I make a 16:9 menu and play it on my 4:3 TV.

So, I'm pretty happy. The only thing I worry about is the audio issue. I don't have a problem on my Pioneer with uncompressed PCM, but my player is getting old and I want to make sure my future one can handle my encodes. Does Panasonic have a lot of trouble with PCM?

Mythos

[Mythos2002]

I believe I found the answers to my questions about Panasonic and PCM. It appears to be an incompatibility with DVD-Lab PCM files and Panasonics. I found that out by looking at DVD-Lab's Forum.

I do have one quick question for those of you who did two disc versions. Where did you make the breakoff point between disc 1 and 2 of ANH and Jedi? I have the definitive LD's and ended disc 1 at a shot of Yoda before the shot where Luke looks down the hole where he goes in to fight Vader.
Stopping it there puts me at approximately 12 minutes and 30 seconds into side 3.

Thanks

Mythos

[vhelp]

@ mythos,

I thought you were doing one disk for each movie per DVD disk.

I had decided upon doing the same thing, (well, starting w/ ANH)
So, i'm confused as to why you have to split them to two. Is there any
reason why you are splitting, or am I missing something ??

I sort of put my ANH vhs project on hold because something important
came up (work) and it's really hectic over here w/ work, and I'm really
exhausted w/ all the nonsense. Anyways..

I was hoping to finish ANH (to DVDR) w/ my new DVD Writer, but I haven't
set it up yet. But, I'm really eager to get things going.

On another note.. . .
Is it really that worse in quality when doing Jedi and upward ??
I'm still looking for those other last two, but if I find all three, I'll get em
anyways

-vhelp

[Mythos2002]

I'm doing 2 disc versions for a couple of reasons. The first is that I want to have the best quality possible. Since I have 2 discs to play with, I can put the bitrate up high and use PCM audio. The second is that I can always go back and make single disc versions from my 2 disc versions in the future. A new dual layered DVD recording format is supposed to come out in the future, so that would be a good time. Finally, it is so much easier to break each in half. Less time to encode, author, less chapter stops, etc. I believe Robster did both single and 2 disc versions and he said his 2 disc versions were better. He said his single disc versions were pretty good though.

I don't know about bad quality on Jedi. From what I understand about the LD's I have. The colors are not accurate and the transfer is not as good on ESB. That's all I know though.

I know what you mean about hectic schedules. I'm on Christmas break, so I'm doing all I can to finish this project before going back to work. Good luck.

Mythos

[vhelp]

Hi Mythos,

Yeah, I know. Work schedule is bummer

Actually, I was thinking of just doing a complete copy (minus my 4gig limit)
and save to DVDR disk (if I ever get it connected over the weekend) and
encode at my leasure, when i'm ready. But, I got lots of fun VHS stuff to
convert, and I don't know where to start but that's what's so much
fun in all this video endeavors.
.
.
Before I do the ADVC thing, I want to hook my SIMO SCC to it to see if I
can get any better color quality output out of it, via some test encodes. I
just might tackel a few test rounds this evening/night. Yeah, I can't wait.

SIMA SCC.. ..
I'll let you all know how it goes in quality.

-vhelp

[DivXExpert]

I know George Lucas is gonna release DVDs of the original three, but they are going to be the crappy special editions. But still, couldn't you get even better quality if you wait for a nice film transfer from the source then just cut out the special edition stuff?

[vhelp]

for me..

if you wait for a nice film transfer from the source then just cut out the special edition stuff?

it's not about waiting for a nicer quality source. I've seen it soo many times
that it has become no longer a need for me. Mind you, I'm only speaking
for myself on this here :P and plus, I do this for experience and bobby
purposes.

Have a great day all :P
-vhelp

[vhelp]

Before I do the ADVC thing, I want to hook my SIMO SCC to it to see if I
can get any better color quality output out of it, via some test encodes. I
just might tackel a few test rounds this evening/night. Yeah, I can't wait.

I've run some tests scenarios w/ the SCC and ADVC together, and found
that it does help to improve upon the color levels a bit. Not a whole lot, but
enough for my purposes.
.
.
I've found that on light source ie, my VHS WS versoin Star Wars and it's
low color output quality, it has increased the colors some. So, I think I'll
use my SCC w/ it. However, because I have a tape that as ben through
the mill by many SW fans and many VCR brands, there is noticable quality
degration and some minor Video sync hick-ups (ie, pic will glitch up/down
a notch, throwing off the Video sync or "field") !!
An example of this issue is where the IVTC is perfect, but once it bumps up
again this Video sync, the "field" switches or something like that, and the
IVTC no longer follows. In order to fix this, I would have stop TRIM or
perform edits or separate as .avi "pieces" and encode them separately.
I'm sure that others here have experienced this, but did not noticed or
factor this into their encoding (IVTC wows, etc)
.
.
So, what I've concluded is that all those peoples may have bumped into
an IVTC glitch can blaim a portion of this symtom as the fault.

I am considering bringing on my TBC-100 to the scenario and run it through
the same scene that cause the "field" to glitch out of sync, throwing off the
IVTC process. I'll report back when I get the chance.

I have one more thing to try. And thats w/ vdub. I heard by Dragonsf that
vdub can use FW. If that's so, that will mean that I can "segment" my FW
to my hd and run the whole tape through in one pass instead of multiples :P
If anyone has an info on this, I'd be happy to hear it. Thanks.
.
.
I have to run some more tests. Good thing I love this hobby.

Have a great day SW fans :P
-vhelp

[Mythos2002]

I was worried about my colors too because I'm in NTSC land (USA) and used IRE0 on my Canopus which is the IRE setting for Japan. That didn't create a color problem for me in the end because on my side by side comparison, the colors of my final DVD's look the same as my Widescreen Faces Editions. I'm glad I held onto those VHS editions for comparison. Also, I have what I consider perfect IVTC. I have one small hiccup or jump. I found out that my storebought VHS has the same jump as well, so it's something in the source.

Back to the IRE issue. I did a small test with the ADVC-100 set to IRE 7.5. The colors where a little richer and darker, but I would have had to do some color correction to bring back some of the shadow detail that was lost. I'm happy with my brighter colors since they match the VHS editions. My DVD's have better picture quality than my VHS tapes of the films at least.

When I go to do Hope and Jedi, I'm going to capture small segments in both IRE settings and compare them to my VHS editions and color match them accordingly. Again, my colors are a little muted, but that is how they are on the VHS and LD editions unless you get the Special Edition versions which have darker and richer colors because they were totally remastered.

Mythos

[vhelp]

...but that is how they are on the VHS and LD editions unless you get the Special Edition versions which have darker and richer colors because they were totally remastered.

Well, I can tell you a little bit about this one. (if we're talking about the same
VHS version)

The one I have is the Special Edition version (Digitally Mastered THX)
and I can say, the colors are on the light side.

In any event, I would recommend a 411 filter for your post processint
during the encoding stage. I use vdub's version of this filter. By applying
this filter, you will reduce your final size by fiew ... but the quality of those
reds will be better (chroma bug, from most Analog capture cards and DV
devices)
This should should always be a standard addition to your processing

Yes, I'm also using IRE 0 in my advc endeavors now. I decided that the
most reason why my "chroma bug" is more evident is because of the over
saturatedness (or darker) color space used in IRE 7.5 mode of the advc unit
By keeping IRE at default setting of 0, you actually help to reduce those
pesky chroma bugs of RED/BLUE
.
.
This may be more so w/ DV devices, but I have found this phenomina in my
Analog capture cards to.
It is my best guess (or theory) that the bug is caught during the capture
process (be it Analog or DV device)

Well, these are just another step in the direction of improved quality, even
in poor sources as VHS. And, we could use any and every bit of it we can get.

-vhelp

[Mythos2002]

Isn't it strange that we get more accurate results using the the IRE that is not recommended for our region (if you live in the U.S.)?

Thanks for the filter tip. Can you tell me a little more about where I can find it? Is it a default Virtual Dub filter or a separate filter that I have to download?

I thought you were doing the Original versions instead of the Special Editions.

My second half of ESB has to be redone. I screwed up by cutting out a frame during the joining process which threw off the IVTC. The reason I cut it is because it was an interlaced frame and the audio didn't sound right between the switch between sides 3 and 4. It's odd that they would pick an interlaced frame to begin side 4 as none of the other sides start off the actual film with an interlaced frame. I can't speak for the black areas. So now, I'm reediting and going to spend 12 hours to reencode since I'm doing 2-pass VBR. I know 2-pass takes longer, but I like the smaller file size and I also get better results without the jumps or skips l get on my finished disc like when I use CBR.

Thanks.
Mythos

[vhelp]

The filter for vdub is 411Helper.

I believe it was by Xesdeeni, on his website:
* http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/

Direct link:
* http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/411Helper.zip

-vhelp

[mijman]

I am in the process of doing exactly what you are.

Here is my method.

Starting with my Letterboxed Laserdiscs, I record them live onto my standalone DVD Recorder in 2 hour mode on a rewriteable disc. (In the case of JEDI, naturally, I have to do it in multiple sessions, due to its length)

Then I rip it with IFOedit, creating a valid IFO (grumble grumble standalone...)

Afterwards, I use DVDshrink to make it fit onto a blank if it doesn't already (a la Jedi). Voila, ready to be burned with a PC burner

At some point, I'll make chapters and possibly menus. Whenver I figure out how. I just got TMPG DVD author, so I have to sit down and play with it.

They look great!
See, George, the original versions DO exist, after all.

[Mythos2002]

I'm satisfied with my ESB colors, but for A New Hope, I may enable the checkbox on Quantize Matrix that says Output YUV as Basic YCbCr not CCIR601. I've been doing some experiments with that setting and capturing in IRE0 using a dark scene and a light scene. They look pretty accurate to my eyes. However, if I capture in IRE7.5 like I'm supposed to and enable that setting, the picture is far too dark.

VHelp: Can you try capturing in IRE0 and encode a small clip with that setting enabled without 411 and tell me what you think? You can also try IRE7.5 with that setting as well, but it is far too dark.

Thanks.

Mythos

[vhelp]

mythos,

I'll see what I can do

The 411 filter helps those areas w/ RED and BLUE mostly. You won't really
notice anything too different otherwise. But, if you don't have the eyes to
catch this, you'll probably not realize any difference, hence your doubt

On my ANH tape, the color space is on the light side. It's def. not dark.

Another thing to realize or factor in this equation..
Don't rely on your PC monitor. You'll undoubtly get a lighter color space
output. But, when you burn to cd (or in your case, DVD) you'll get the
correct color space. But, it's up to you to make that choice of filtering in
some color tweaks in your projects. Whatever makes you happy

I will see what I can do about a sample clip though :P
PS: also as a reminder.. my tape has ben run through the mills. The output
quality may or may not be what you would expect, even if we BOTH used
the exact same steps (step for step) we'd both probably end up w/ two dif
source output quality
It could even boil down to the codec we both use on our system. My codec
vs. your codec. etc etc. So, don't be surprisd if mine looks better than your
LD, or worse, poorer

And yes, I'd like to get a sample in here before the new year hits the scene.

Well, keep an eye out
-vhelp

[Mythos2002]

Thanks VHelp. I actually have both versions of the Trilogy on Widescreen VHS which I'm planning on parting with since I have the LD's.

I'm curious to see how things turn out. Are you making yours 16:9 or at least clipping the black bars and adding your own? I'm doing both of those. I have to read over the subtitling guides so I can add my own permanent titles for the parts where the aliens like Greedo speaks in Hope and where Jabba speaks in Jedi.

I'm trying to figure out how to get pictures so that I can post my comparison results. I can get the pictures, but I cannot clip anything from around them like the player I'm playing them in. I've tried WMA and WinDVD. WinDVD is not letting me capture images by hitting the P button like it is supposed to.

Mythos

[vhelp]

Well, here is VHELP's long awaited Star Wars SE VHS widescreen sample clip.


..this pic is from the actual MPEG-2 clip.

I have others, but I'm limited to so much webspace. I'll try and U/L as
many as I can w/in reasonable time. But, enjoy the VHS version for its
limited resources :P

I did not use any 411 filter on this because for some reason, I did not see
the need for it in the sample source encode for D/L. I tried w/ and w/out
and found that (for the time being) it was not needed - however, I won't
go into the details.

I think the quality is pretty good considering the limited'ness in VHS.
I encoded it w/ a high bitrate because the output is assume to be DVD, hence
the higher resolution of 720 x 480 and 16:9 AR encode, which resulted in a
required raised bitrate. And, after several (many) test encodes for the best
(given VHS limited'ness) I found the comprimising min/max (at least to my
eyes) bitrate setting. Your mileage may vary. See the arhive for details.

Visit my VHELP's Samples.. thread for the D/L.

For now, "may the force be with you.. always."
-vhelp 2203

[FulciLives]

vhelp ...

That STAR WARS pic looks very good considering it is from VHS video.

I'd like to download the clip but could you tell me how big it is? I'm on a 56k modem these days (grumble) and when I tried to download it the filesize was not reported and my internet connection seemed slower than normal (even for a 56k modem) so I gave up.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Rookie64]

11.8 MB



looks good, Vhelp

[Mythos2002]

Vhelp: The clip does like pretty nice. Fulci: The clip is a little over 12megs.

Well, I have my subtitles done the way I want them. I used the guide that tells you how to use Sub Station Alpha to add permanent subs in Virtual Dub. I'm frameserving my file from Virtual Dub to TMPNG right now. I've never frameserved before, so I hope it is going okay. What I am worried about is that it has been encoding for a little over 1 and 1/2 hours and the Source Position still says 00:00:00 and the frames at the left is still at 0/87378. It does say it is at 15%.

I had to frameserve because I would have had to use full processing to save the AVI file with the sub filter. The resulting file reported by Virtual Dub would have been over 100Gb.

I used pale yellow for the subs with a black border around the letters. I didn't check the box office because I didn't like having a black box around the subs. They look pretty nice and are perfectly timed with the original subs. I also put the subs on the film image itself like Robster did because that is where they originally were in the film. You have to do this anyway if you are clipping the analog black bars.

Where I split this one is right after Tarkin says, "Terminate her immediately!." because the scene switches to the Falcon in hyperspace.

I'll be back this evening to let you know how it went.

Mythos

[vhelp]

Morning guys.

.
.
Yes, thank you all for the vote of confidense in my first Star Wars
sample clip :P
It wasn't easy finding the right (what I call) equalibrium of the VHS
(vhs vs. "sqeetspot" encoding) ..and getting the aspect ratio was not as
easy as I was exepecting - lot of trial and error (due to my minipuation
of the source (for multiple reasons)) Anyways..


@ Fulci,

yeah, the clip is ~12.6 in total. I tried compressing it to help in the
reduction of space, but even WinRAR has it's limits, though it compacts
much better/more space then Winzip.
.
.
I wanted to show, what I thought was a really good clip encode for U/L
for the size is 17mb (it's a very good scene) and I was happy about it's
encoding quality - same settings as that clip. I"m just giving the
process a final tough before I finalize to a DVD - hay, I got my DVD writer
connected finall - but, on my first try of using it, it hung :O
.
.
Yeah, as I said, the pic is the actual snap-shot from vdubMOD's window, (after
I ran the MPEG-2 clip through it.. ) it's not the actual .avi file.
.
.
I'm on 56k too, hehe. It took an hour to U/L that clip. I don't mind,
when I'm sharing in my success or making a point or whatever. So, don't
feel so bad Fulci. I suffer too, and learned it's not such a big deal.
A TIP.. if you want to D/L any large files. I've learned a little secret to speeding
it up some. Example.. For that D/L, turn off your e-mail's "check for mail
every [xx]" and don't surf - - D/L will go much quicker. But, if you
surf and have your e-mailing checking every min or few min's, you'll never
D/L it quicker.

The aspect ratio is always the hardest part, because they don't always follow
the assume method for obtaining a correct AR. Example, through the use
of calculating the "black bars" vs. "video area" and factoring in what is the
actual AR of a given source (ie, my Star Wars SE WS VHS)


@ mythos,

Frameserving from vdub to TMPG is just as easy. Once you're ready, you
just File/StartFrameServe.. and save "filename.vdr" and open this file inside
TMPG. I like things simple, and use 4 digit char (ie, 01.00.vdr)
.
.
Subs are out of my league here.

The only one thing I might worry about is the source's actual Time Stamp.
I always have this problem whenever I make SVCD/xSVCD's the Time
Stamp is never correct - not matter what. I am hoping that when I do my
DVD encodes and Author to DVD disks (I got my DVD Writer connected) I
am hoping that Time Stamp will be correct.

-vhelp 2204