Star Wars Conversions-Hit me with your best shot...

[vhelp]

hi Mythos2002,

Some questions...

* Are you making encodes for DVD disks ??, or

* CDR, but w/ DVD specs.. later to be played (CDR) by your DVD player ??

Also, you CAN get by w/ lower audio.. not that you have to use 48k unless
your aim is DVDR media. But 128kbts and up should do well for you.. not
that you don't already know this, but I just though I'd mention it anyways.

I ask, because I have dabled w/ encodes to DVD specs, ie, CVD, xSVCD
and kDVD (using kVCD.net's kvcd formats and things) and burned all of
these encodes to CDR and even played VERY WELL on my AD-1500 player.

For CDR's and encodes/authors ...
I've pretty much decided w/ these params: 704x480, 16:9 AR and low bitrate
(per kDVD template via some minor alterations) and I've have gotten
some pretty good results w/ these (based off dvd rips)

I'm working towards VHS widescreen encodes for other materials ie,
"Panic Room" and "Blade Runner" (also on dvd) and a few more on VHS
for hobby, entertainment and challenge and whatnots, as long as they are
in widescreen format, as these are. Fullscreen, I'll keep at 352x480 (CVD)
specs. And, should I EVER get my hands on Star Wars VHS in widescreen
format, I'll be a happy camper, and enjoy transfering it to CDR media for
the challenge of it all, and so on and so forth

-vhelp

[Mythos2002]

Thanks for the advice. I'll probably strip all of the AC3 codecs out and reinstall the one main AC3 codec.

I'm encoding to DVD-R. I'm splitting the films and putting each one on two DVD-R's so that I can maximize bitrate. I still need to reencode my captures with the KDVD Full Resolution template that Funkyguy gave me. I'm hoping that and using AC3 instead of PCM will take care of my sync problems which only occur on the finished test DVD's that I have made.

The sync problems occur later on the DVD's. They start out in sync, but I believe the video gets a little behind the audio by the end. I like DVD Lab, but I don't like the way you cannot change Chapter Lag with the trial version that I have. I also experienced sync problems with DVD Movie Factory 2. I think it may be due to the fact that I inserted I-Pictures and closed the GOP's.

I do have one question for Funkyguy that I want to make sure I have correct. My GOP pattern using the template is: IBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPB B

Is that the correct pattern to use?

Thanks.

Mythos

[Hazza]

vhelp.

A bit off topic but did you try capturing from VHS using passthrough feature of your TRV22 and find that like mine it removes macrovision? As opposed to taping everything onto miniDV first. (I was talking to you about it in another forum section)

I am just finishing the trilogy conversion from VHS Widescreen and the Camcorder does a great job with the conversion to digital also. I had a problem the first time I tried it with the audio being very tinny and low quality but by deduction found the source of the problem to be the VCR I was using. I borrowed a brand new HiFi VCR and redid all the captures and it sounds superb now.

I have redone all the subtitles using Premiere and am now MPEG encoding with cropping to get rid of the black bars. Using DVDLab to author with custom menu's and splitting the extra features in another menu item.

My Tip: To save lots of manual hours on this process everyone should use a very new VCR the first time around.

Hazza.

[vhelp]

hi Hazza,

maybe I should give this TRV22 another visit. I use my JVC s-vhs cause
it's the only one that has S-Video, and I want the best quality. Composite
doesn't do it for me, specially for VHS source.

Unfortunately, it seems that JVC is in cohoots w/ MV, and sends an extra
signal to devices like DV CAMS. As a result, my TRV22 shuts down !!

What's you model/brand ??

-vhelp

[Mythos2002]

Hi Vhelp. I sent you a private message.

Thanks for the advice on everything guys. I'm still working on the encoding. I did CBR, but I really need to raise the bitrate because the m2v file was only 1.7Gb.

I'm still having trouble with IVTCing and the Aspect Ratio. The only way I can get the proper aspect ratio I want at 16:9 is to set both display and source at 16:9. However, I'm running into trouble with IVTCing. The problems don't occur on motion scenes dealing with spaceships. They only happen during certain scenes where people are moving. An example would be when Luke is laying on the snow and babbling about Yoda while Han is trying to put him in the Taun Taun. My script looks like this:
LoadPlugin("g:\decombfilter\Decomb.dll")
Avisource("e:\Empire\empire1.avi")
Telecide(guide=0,post=false,gthresh=15,blend=true)
Decimate(mode=0,cycle=5,threshold=2.0)
LanczosResize(720,360,0,102,720,276)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)

I've tried letting TMPNGEnc handling the IVTC process. It does very well, but I can't get the correct aspect ratio unless I use an Avisynth script. I've tried altering the script to:
LoadPlugin("g:\decombfilter\Decomb.dll")
Avisource("e:\Empire\empire1.avi")
LanczosResize(720,360,0,102,720,276)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)

so that it would only do the resizing and let TMPNGEnc do the IVTCing. The problem is that the IVTC doesn't work right when I use that script. I've even used the deinterlace filter and the video still looks interlaced. I don't know what is wrong. If I could just find the perfect way to IVTC with AVISynth or the perfect way to get the aspect ratio correct in TMPNGEnc without a script, I would be set.

Mythos

[spiderman2k1]

People go to ebay buy a cheep laser disc and the Star Wars Laser Disc.

[indolikaa]

People go to ebay buy a cheep laser disc and the Star Wars Laser Disc.

But that takes all the fun out of it.

A bit off topic but did you try capturing from VHS using passthrough feature of your TRV22

I did this on my TRV-120 using a LaserDisc player. Outstanding results, even with DV's 4:1:1 issue.

[mgillaus]

here in oz, they recently showed the SE trilogy on paytv (satellite) here, both pan and scan and letterbox.. (2.85:1..full widescreen??? anyways you know what i mean) versions i managed to capture the letterbox version of Jedi from the s-video out connector of my decoder box straight into my sony dv camera thru the s-vhs passthrough feature. i captured it then onto my pc as dv format, then reencoded it to mpeg2 vbr at 5000 i think.. authored it with menus and stuff. it looks great on the dvd player now.

the paytv guys broadcast in mpeg2 to the decoders, so the original looks really good and this copy i have now looks pretty darn impressive. 8)

[flaninacupboard]

They always get shown cropped from 2.35:1 to 1.77:1 over here. grrr.

But my lasers look better than the evilly compressed MPEG you get on cable anyway. biggest problem i have with it is that there is no scene change detection, so you get damn ugly B and P frames until the next I comes round. NTL truly suck for that

[spiderman2k1]

mgillaus where are you from? You in the UK. I heard they play Star Wars. On cable in the UK alot

[sdlehman]

I made DVDs from the Definitive Collection laserdiscs and did not use any IVTC or other filters and the quality is really very good. I did the capture through a Pinnacle DV500 card and used Premier to stitch together the sides. Then I used the DV500 hardware MPEG encoder, variable bitrate and burned with DVDit.

I'm not sure I understand why you would want to deinterlace. I play back on a Pioneer Elite DV47A DVD player to a Mitsubishi HD big screen and it looks good.

Am I missing something? Could my picture be better?

[funkguy4]

They always get shown cropped from 2.35:1 to 1.77:1 over here. grrr.

But my lasers look better than the evilly compressed MPEG you get on cable anyway. biggest problem i have with it is that there is no scene change detection, so you get damn ugly B and P frames until the next I comes round. NTL truly suck for that

They don't compress the cable around here! Just Dish........which is what I have for the international shiznit.

[vhelp]

Morning guys..

@ Mythos..
I got you PM, just haven't ben able to return post just yet

@ sdlehman..

I made DVDs from the Definitive Collection laserdiscs and did not use any IVTC or other filters and the quality is really very good. I did the capture through a Pinnacle DV500 card and used Premier to stitch together the sides. Then I used the DV500 hardware MPEG encoder, variable bitrate and burned with DVDit.

I think that the reason why (but I haven't tested this) is because your DV500
or DVDit is doing the IVTC behind the seems most likely

I'm not sure I understand why you would want to deinterlace. I play back on a Pioneer Elite DV47A DVD player to a Mitsubishi HD big screen and it looks good.

The deInterlace my be a PAL thing.. so it may be different for PAL users, hence
the need for it maybe.

@ flaninacupboard...

They always get shown cropped from 2.35:1 to 1.77:1 over here. grrr.

You saying that they are cropping the 2.35:1 downto a 1.77:1 ??
the 1.77:1 is FullScreen, ain't it ?? or is it 1.83 ??

@ anyone..

Does anybody have a good listing of ALL the ratios, and their respective
formulas ??
I'd like to compile them all together, if that's possible.
* 2.35:1 - - widescren, ..calucated resolution formula here, and the rest too.
* 1.77:1 - - wide screen
* 1.85:1 - - wide screen
* 1.33:1 - - Full screen
I know there are others, but just can't remember them off the top of my
head

Thanks all,
-vhelp

[funkguy4]

Plug the values into my VDub frame size calc and at the bottom it says.

for example, if you wanna do 2.35:1 (Super widescreen), then plug in 2.35 for Source Width and 1 for Source Height. At the bottom it gives you a classification. VIDEO TAXONOMY AHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

[sdlehman]

Vhelp, thanks for the reply. Makes sense to me.

[geek rock]

You saying that they are cropping the 2.35:1 downto a 1.77:1 ??
the 1.77:1 is FullScreen, ain't it ?? or is it 1.83 ??

no, 1.77:1 is also known as 16:9 (widescreen). all widescreen TVs have 16:9 screens.

the ratio for fullscreen is 1.33:1, also known as 4:3. all fullscreen TVs have 4:3 screens.

so, when SW is shown on TV here, it's cropped from 2.35:1 widescreen down to 1.77:1 widescreen. still some picture missing from the sides, but not as much as with 4:3.

[vhelp]

@ geek rock.. or anyone..

so, when SW is shown on TV here, it's cropped from 2.35:1 widescreen down to 1.77:1 widescreen. still some picture missing from the sides, but not as much as with 4:3.

..so, not to be soo off topic here, but:
* WHY would they do this ??
* What's the advantage of cutting picutre ??

Thanks,
-vhelp

[geek rock]

the simple reason: films are very rarely shown on television in the 2.35:1 ratio because it's too small to view on a 4:3 TV comfortably. i'm sure that if things were broadcast in 2.35:1 the TV stations would get a ton of complaints about why there were giant black bars on the screen.

if you've ever watched a 2.35:1 film on a 4:3 TV, you'll see that the picture itself takes up around a third of the screen.

so, the solution: crop it down to 16:9. keeps the people with 4:3 TVs happy because the black bars aren't as intrusive.

the advantage of cropping the picture? there isn't one. any cropping is bad, because you lose parts of the picture.

[vhelp]

Hi geek rock,

if you've ever watched a 2.35:1 film on a 4:3 TV, you'll see that the picture itself takes up around a third of the screen.

so, the solution: crop it down to 16:9. keeps the people with 4:3 TVs happy because the black bars aren't as intrusive.

I think that the above is about the best explanaa I've heard, and sounds
feasable too. Yeah, lots of "why's my milk looking a bit yellowee" kind of
peoples..


-vhelp

[funkguy4]

Get a widescreen TV.

[Mythos2002]

I wrote Pegasys Inc. about the problem I'm having with converting to 16:9 from a 4:3 source. I only told them my source was LD, but not which film. Hopefully, they can help as I can't get the aspect ratio right without Avisynth. TMPGEnc does better at IVTCing than my script, but it doesn't work if I use Avisynth even if I just have the resize commands without telecide and decimate.

I believe my IVTC problem in addition to the GOP settings being wrong is what was causing my sync problems when I would burn DVD's. I could be wrong though. Is anyone else using TMPGEnc Plus 2.520? That's the version I have.

Mythos

[funkguy4]

I wrote Pegasys Inc. about the problem I'm having with converting to 16:9 from a 4:3 source. I only told them my source was LD, but not which film. Hopefully, they can help as I can't get the aspect ratio right without Avisynth. TMPGEnc does better at IVTCing than my script, but it doesn't work if I use Avisynth even if I just have the resize commands without telecide and decimate.

I believe my IVTC problem in addition to the GOP settings being wrong is what was causing my sync problems when I would burn DVD's. I could be wrong though. Is anyone else using TMPGEnc Plus 2.520? That's the version I have.

Mythos

Why are you going from 4:3 to 16:9. Won't that stretch the video?

[Robster]

WHY would they do this ??
* What's the advantage of cutting picutre ??

Because if they don't then people moan about the 'black bars'.

What these people fail to understand is that when you crop the picture you're destroying the frame composition. It's like listening to a piece of classical music with upto half the instruments missing. You get the tune but you don't get the full ensemble.

People need to watch the film, not the television set.

[Mythos2002]

Why are you going from 4:3 to 16:9. Won't that stretch the video?

If it's done properly, the video won't be stretched. I'm trying to go to 16:9 to be prepared for the time when I buy a 16:9 TV. When I use my script, the aspect ratio looks correct. When I play it on a 4:3 TV, my DVD player makes it look correct since it is set to 4:3. When I buy a 16:9 TV, I should be able to set the DVD player to 16:9 and have it look correct on that as well. If I only encode 4:3, I'm going to be stuck with a bar on each side on a 16:9 TV unless I use the zoom feature. The zooming will stretch the image out of proportion. That's the whole reason for doing the 16:9 encode. Now, if I set my DVD player to 16:9 mode while using my 4:3 TV, it will be stretched.

I'm just trying to mimic a Hollywood DVD as much as possible. Most of mine are 16:9 enhanced, but they display properly on my TV.

Mythos

[vhelp]

Hi Mythos

The only way to be sure of your final 16:9 output is to be sure that your
4:3 captures are TRUE 16:9 ratio, cause if they're not, you could be encoding
to 16:9 in error. I had this experience w/ one of the ST Enterprise episodes,
there the source wasn't in 16:9 (even though it was letterboxed) they had
just added in some bars. I didn't understand this cause I thought I've done
them well and correctly in the past. I now have to double check them, but
I haven't found the time to do this. I should do this now, before I forget
and procrastinate more. hmm...
Cuase the above don't make sense to me (st enterprise 16:9 issue)

But, if it's a true 16:9 capture, (via 4:3 capture) you should have the proper
aspect ration of the source ie, if you 4:3 analog captured from a dvd player,
you would have a 16:9 aspect ration source to work th, hence a final output
of 16:9.

So, the trick is to know what your source is truely. Then, you have to
figure out how to cut/crop boarders and add in your own or leave out (pending
on the math after cutting/cropping)

DJRumpy created a guide, but you may benefit from it in some parts.
Check his guide here:
* DJRumpy's SVCD to DVD MPEG Guide

But, i'm sure those LD's are 16:9 .. they have to be, else others would have
complained and demonstrated here. So, its pretty safe to assume you have
a 16:9 encode there
Just a matter of working out your final 16:9 encodes.

Bottom line...
* crop the boarders completely, as you're planning on a 16:9 TV set soon.
* and, encode to 16:9 output (video tab) but make sure your (advanced tab)
AR is set to 4:3, cause that's what you capture it from not 16:9 !!

-vhelp

[Hazza]

Guys.

I thought I had hit all the snags, but one last one has me.

I have MPEG converted all the movies and the extra features and am authoring DVD's. I put a menu with "Play Movie", "Scene Selections" and "Extra Features". My problem: The extra features are 4:3 but the movie itself is 16:9 Wide Screen and DVDLab will not let me mix the two aspect ratio's.

What are you guys doing for this? Leaving out the extra features or using authoring programs that can handle this?

vhelp.

Mine is the DCR-TRV22E but should be the same for the NTSC version. When using the analogue->digital passthrough the camera ignores the macrovision. I have tested this with 2 separate VCR's.

Hazza.

[vhelp]

@ hazza,

Mine is the DCR-TRV22E but should be the same for the NTSC version. When using the analogue->digital passthrough the camera ignores the macrovision. I have tested this with 2 separate VCR's.

Well then, you're lucky
I have three VCRs here.. Sony (composite) and Sharp (composite) and
then my JVC S-VHS HR-S3910U and I tell you, this guy turns on ALL
the red lights on DV cams !!

But, it doesn't matter, as I utilize my TBC-100 if anything goes wrong

-vhelp

[Robster]

But, i'm sure those LD's are 16:9

Nope. There were only a very small number of 16:9 enhanced LaserDiscs released and these were either for demonstration or from Japan. None of the commercially available US LaserDiscs were 16:9 enhanced.

Mythos has a major problem with aspect ratios within his encoding. He's used the same identical settings I've used and got completely different results.

[flaninacupboard]

Hazza,

You could re-encode the special features to 16:9 format (i.e. picture would be about 480X480 inside a 720X480 frame) and this would work great on a 16:9 TV. unfortunately anyone viewing on a 4:3 TV will see the special features with black borders on all sides

Or you could use some better authoring software.

or you could do a seperate disc for all the special stuff, all in 4:3.

[Mythos2002]

I was wondering one thing. When I captured the films, I kept the black bars on the top and bottom. I was wondering if that's what's causing my aspect ratio problem when I try to convert to 16:9. Up to this point I've either used Avisynth to resize and add borders (didn't use the crop command) or TMPNGEnc to mask the borders with the crop filter.

Mythos