Star Wars Conversions-Hit me with your best shot...

[vhelp]

mythos,
I've seen the 3 set on VHS at Walmart/K-Mart, and BJs and they all sell for
$27 or $29 dollars, but I'm not sure if they are WideScreen or FullScreen.
The box say THX, but there are plenty of Movies w/ THX and no WideScreen.
So, I believe that all these stores are selling the FullScreen version on
VHS. I don't have proof, but then again, the box WOULD have said WideScreen
on them for sure! Usually, when a tipicle movie is a special version or
regular version, the wont say anything, or will say something like this
usuall statement:
"This Film... ...it has been formatted to fit your TV"
But, in rare cases, you'll see something like "WideScreen" version at the
top or bottom. In any case, these VHS 3 volume sets at the above store
are all the same box, and all, I believe are FullScreen versions.


therick,
I was able to bring back home a copy of those sample clips I had D/L'd
some time back last week or so, on a CD-RW disk. Found someone at work
w/ a CD burner.
.
.
Ok, in short, I saw the colors were pretty washed out. I'm not sure if
you purposly did this, or that it was your capture card and/or capture
card and software setup, so you'll have to ilaborate on that.
I see you used cce for your encode.
Now, as for the colors looking washed out, I guess this is a trate with
LD quality captures.
* Question, what/which filter (color) tech are you using for your encodes??
I'm not sure why you are using any "temporal" smoother in your LD's for
though.
* Huffy settings, I usually use these:
- - - YUY2 - - - - - - - - - - - - RGB
-----------------------------------------------------
Predict Gradeant - - - - Predict Gradient (best)
-----------------------------------------------------
[x] Swap fields on decompress (I have a broken card)

The above is what I use for my capturing from DirecTV sat or DV cam.
Both methods use either or RCA / S-Video. Both prove good quality all
around. No difference between the both. However, I think that by using
the S-Video for catpuring via VHS is just a tad bit better, and in your
LD captures, may make your colors slight or tad better. But this is just
a hunch. Oh, but your WinTV Go card doesn't support S-Video. Forgot.

Ok, I did manage to re-enocde your clip via DVD2AVI *.d2v and feed it
to CCE and tmpg. I felt that TMPG provided the better quality. But then
again, we're talking about re-encoding your clips, and not using the
actuall source instead.
I did some w/ color enhancements and w/out. w/out came out better.
Again, cause we are using YOUR sample, we can't expect much better due to
the loss of color quality in addiiton to other quality related issues.
I'm still messing around w/ your samples though, as time allows me to.

Later.
-vhelp

[Mythos2002]

Thanks for the info. VCDHelp. I have both versions of the trilogy on VHS in widescreen. I have the 1995? THX remasters as well as the 1997 Special Editions. I was just curious how well the transfers to the hard drive look if you use the VHS tapes instead of LD's.

Thanks.
Mythos

[vhelp]

mythos,

Even though I don't hvae LD, IMO, I think that the VHS (any versions) would
probably look better, at least, based on my may VHS transfers.
But, just to note... Not all VHS are processed in the same way w/ equal
quality for all. I don't know if you have ever noticed this. I have. And
what I do, is wait till they release another VHS. Usually, they have re
processed it better. Fortunately for me, and after many trial and error
not to mention the waisted tapes (all for good causes though) I am able to
figure this out BEFORE I purchase the tape. ie, the latest VHS in stores
is the "Harry Potter" tape. This was not done according to my taste, so
I'm not bothering waisting my time on it, till they reproduce it again
on VHS. Oh, the same goes for DVD. But, then, you all dont realy notice
this, though I do, he, he...!!!
Ok, you asked for it, (under your breath) . . . two DVD movies come to
issue:
* Red Planet - great movie by the way!
* Dogma - another yet, great movie.
.
.
Do both, and look at the detail. Also, noticed wich one produces better
bitrate distribution/quality/level, etc. This is the only tip I'll give
for the time being as to "goal to quality"
.
.
Tell me which one looks better, in any scene for that matter.
Nobody realizes this, but me. I'm the only one who knows this, but I wont
put my FINGER on it, as I feel you have to do some work for yourself. Only
then, will you know what I know, and know how/what/when to look for in
your encodings' "goal to quality"
Well, I'll leave it at that, though.

Ok, I've just finished D/L'ng and looking at two different samples of
someone else's LD sample, though not the "Star Wars". Again, there is
a color washout. So, my hunch is right. That you can't bypass this issue
unless you have access to a (in so many words) "digital color remaster"
or whatever they call it. There are various levels of ways they do this.
This is NOT something that is easily ready for any one of us, unless you
just so happen to work for Hollywood or in that area of "Studio quality
production equipment/hardware/software" what-have-you. Sorry - couldn't
get it in the right words. So, we're stuck with what meesly little toy(s)
we have (analog or DV digital capture devices) and limited software/hardware
encoding and filtering we use (INCLUDING cce)
In any case, because of tmpg's easy access to color filters and the ability
to view as we adjust values, tmpg is the way to go in the LD route.

So, based on above, VHS is THE better route, as it's color quality will be
far better than the LD washout.

-vhelp

[therick]

@vhelp - I am not sure what samples you have seen but I have just figured out why my LD captures look so god-awful...my LD Player...I have done some research and found out that Sony LD players (which I have) suck ass and that Pioneer is the way to go...Sony owners complain of washed out colors and video noise. And plus all of that, Sony's LD players were unreliable (as I just found out)! My LD Player is fing up now...so until I can find a newer PIONEER LD player and a card with S-Video input that doesn't look like shite then I will be back in business...oh well I guess it is time to do my Indiana Jones VHS...

here is a sample someone else is getting with different hardware..

http://mapage.noos.fr/stephane.leguevel/Asus-8200.jpg

as you can see...it looks great...so I don't think we can count LD out just yet

[vhelp]

therick,

yes, I agree. That *.jpg pic looked MUCH better!! Now, if only YOU can
find a PIONEER unit!!

...as I've said elsewhere on this FORUM in another post, ...let me continue
with my "filter chain" revision for VHS. I'm trying to improve on it some
more. And, no, I don't like using temporal smoothers. They only make
the VHS clip look worse.

-vhelp

[therick]

@vhelp - well, I would love to hear your ideas on VHS..I have done only a few conversions that way and I have used temporal smoother to get rid of noise...and I agree it does hurt picture quality...what are your methods for cleaning up VHS?

[vhelp]

therick,

Actually, I don't give out my private "filter chain" techniques
But, I admit/share some tips. One, being that temporal smoothers smear
the video, and give you added masquetos, more like blocks that glitter or
something like that.

What I would advise is this. Use at best, the defaults OR very little values,
if you insist on using any form of temporal or sorts. I use very minimal numbers
in my filter chain.

It took many, many trial and error to come up with what I call an acceptable
filter chain for most of my VHS projects. Also, I don't always use the SAME
chain. I usually have to make some minor adjustments to respective
functions in the chain.

Also, VHS process aren't all done in the same way, unfortunately. I'm doing the
VHS movie, "GalaxyQuest" Great movie. I love! What makes this movie even
MORE enjoyable is that I can pop in a CD, instead of the VHS. It makes it that
much MORE enjoyable to watch.
Unfortunately, I haven't mastered/learned how to do chapters, such as those on
DVDs. I have to make separate *.mpg files and in short, use my SKIP RT/LF button
to go back/forth to a certain scene. This works out fine for me, but would be
better if I had it working smooth as in DVDs. I don't mind the 1 sec
pauses between each *.mpg clip, and usually encode them when there's a fade or
black or something like that. Sometimes, it don't work that way, and I have no
choice, but for most part, it does work out ok.
Some day, I'll come accross an app that will do this sort of menu and scene
selection within ONE clip, instead of multiple ones. Currently, there
aran't any for VCD/SVCD creation. So, I'm not talking about those expensive, and
complecated ones that require a lot of planning and fiddleling. I'm talking about
just being able to, one two three it, without the complicated steps. Anyways...

Some VHS movies come out fantasic, and other come out great, and others come
out, well, ok, while others, well... but for hte most part, I have VHS-to-VCD/SVCD
etc. down pretty much pat! And, it's fun for me. It's my hobby and entertainment.
I love what I do!

Well, let me continue w/ my quest for that perfect VHS filter chain, he, he...
If you all want, maybe I'll post a sample clip to compare w/ yours that you
all currently do. Would be nice, though, if someone were to ask for a specific
clip/scene from VHS movie to upload as a sample to compare w/ theirs though.

Good luck in your quest for a new PIONEER LP player though.
I'm sure you're heading for e-bay or whatever they call it.
Oh, yes, please keep us all informed, and I hope to see you progress
w/ some NEW samples. In any case. . .

-vhelp

[therick]

actually vhelp, there are programs that do what you want. Getting chapters in VCDs (and SVCDs) uses a little thing called "entry points" instead of different mpg files...I haven't tried it on my AD-1500, but I am sure that it works...the program that does this the easiest is Ulead DVD Movie Factory-very simple and straight forward. Has templates for menus and whatnot...For when you get a little more advanced try TSCV (in the toods section on this page) it is a little tougher, but there are tons of guides and though I have never used it it looks like it does excellently...

[vhelp]

therick,

if I ever learn the easiest way to menu via "entry points" (which I couln't
remember at the time of my prev. post) I'll let you know how it goes/
went.

I've heard of "DVD movie factory" but this is yet, another big app that
requires tons of harddrive space. I'm wanting sometihng SMALL or
tiny even, and will not require a rocket scientest to produce even the
most simplest as two menus and/or two entry points to jump into, scene'wise.

Thanks.

-vhelp

[sullen]

VCDEasy. The name says it all. Works a lot like EZCD creator, if you know how to use it, for doing menus. I run everything through it now and rarely use Nero to burn (S)VCDs. You can specificy points in several different ways including a point at a regular interval, say every 3 minutes, at specific times, at a specific frame, or just a certain amount of chapters all equally spread apart in the file.

It's fast, easy, and FREE! It doesn't get any cheaper than that.

[vhelp]

sullen,

ok, i decided (for the heck of it) to give VCDEasy a go, so I D/L'd it and
installed it w/ success.

However, I've experienced my first CRASH using it!! It hung when I was trying
to search for "images" to use.

Anyways, I'll admit, I don't know WHAT the hell I'm doing w/ it though. As it's
not user friendly, and VERY confusing. There is also, NO order to it. I mean,
as a newbie, I want to be up and running and creating a menu/entry point
as quickly as possible and w/out any fussing. So far, my first experience with
it has ben unsuccessful to say the least. However, I'll continue to TRY and
FIGURE out HOW to USE it.
At current, i'm using 720x480, so I had to turn off MPEG compliance.
Also, I pressed the GO button, and got a very long LOG file full of green "!"
and that's about it. I did'nt see any BURN button and no "quick reformat" button
either. So, it looks like I'll have to first,
* run nero,
* reformat my cd-rw disk (for multi test purposes)
* close nero
* open vcdeasy
* and do whatever the hell I don't know what I'm doing, and try again, he,he...

Ok, after reading FAQ, I see there are many issues w/ CDRDAO. I guess 'll have
to scratch VCDeasy (I mean, VCDNOTsoEasy)
My CDRW is the I/O Magic version 12x10x32 from a year ago.

Ok, since it doesn't work, and I have to (so soon) scratch vcdNOTsoeasy, any other
SIMPLE'er software out their that anyone here knows about, and w/out
CRASHING out??

Thanks.


-vhelp

[vhelp]

sullen,


bascilly, what I thought that these apps did was, present some form of timeline
where you drag a pointer bar to a scene in your clip, and every "place" you stop
will be your so called, "entry point". But, this is turning to be untrue, and
the otherway round, what I said earlier, that yo uhvae to be a "rocke scientist"
to operate such an app, and after read it's FAQ and whatever help it offers, and
the recommended help webpage it has in its button, ie http://www.vcdimager.org/guides/chapters.html I'm DUMfounded and taxed to the
limit.

I think I'll wait till something like a time-line based app is developed. It
will happen sooner or later. Right now, this vcdNOTsoeasy is NOT the way to go
for me. I'll stick to my tipicle multi *.mpg files. It's SOOOOO much
easier than the vcdNOTsoeasy route.
So, untill I figure out an truely EASier way, or figure out a way to do
entrypoints, I'll remain.

Welp, back to my "filter chain" he, he... ... ...

-vhelp

[Baldrick]

Please stick to the topic...if you want to discuss authoring make a new topic.

[vhelp]

baldrick,

feww! that's a first. (for me, i mean) Actually, I had realized this, and
that was why I finished off in the way I did, or so I thought. If someone
had made any more mention of ahoring, I was just about to post a
response similar to yours
...to start another - sorry that you beat me too it instead!

evening.

-vhelp

[sullen]

Here:
http://forum.vcdhelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=296301#296301

[Mythos2002]

Has anyone finished converting all 3 movies? I'm trying to decide whether to skip the Definitive Set and go for the THX remasters. Does anyone know which ones have the best quality? I know the Definitive has the best slow motion, but how about general playback? has anyone found a way to encode them in 235:1 16:9? Thanks.


Mythos

[DJRumpy]

Someone has. I just finshed downloading the Widescreen edition of the Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. The widescreen version of Episode 4 that I just downloaded looks like an SVCD rip, but I can still convert this one to DVD as well. They look great.

[Treebeard]

http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/spotlights/starwars/


Fan films of star wars, anybody seen these.

Some of them are hillarious

[Mythos2002]

Someone has. I just finshed downloading the Widescreen edition of the Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. The widescreen version of Episode 4 that I just downloaded looks like an SVCD rip, but I can still convert this one to DVD as well. They look great.

Are they the Original Versions or Special Editions. I've been trying to find the Original versions in case I keep losing the Ebay auctions, but all I can find are the SE's.

Mythos

[DJRumpy]

Empire appears to be the remake of the original. What scenes are new in Jedi?

[medievil]

The quality of the conversion is very very good but they must have used a hardware converter as you notice moiré effects and some aliasing with jagged lines as if one field had been captured.

I have them. The jagged lines are because they captured it at 640*480 then up the res to 720*480. So you get some double info to fill in the "dots"
I also think they encoded to Mpeg with a wrong setting (Top fram first or something) Because if you step through the frames the blended clips apear as ghosts BEFORE someone moves instead of after.

Over all though I am very Pleased with the Quality of them , MUCH,MUCH better than anything else out there. To bad someone hasn't Done the Indiana Jones triolgy from laser Disk, Cause the dvd's I purchased (Yes I own them on VHS) are crap.

[DJRumpy]

I also own the original VHS tapes of these. I just finished converting the DIVX rip of Return of the Jedi. The quality is excellent, although I had to resize, and run it through a noise filter. I also had to convert from PAL to FILM. I've also seen a claim in the newsgroups of the original LD rip of Star Wars. I missed the first day though. I'll just have to try and catch it next time around.

[easydvd]

not to get real far off topic, but I'm doing the Star Wars Trilogy VHS tapes now in 4:3 and need to know how can I convert from NTSC to NTSC film when I'm capping at 480x480 using morgan mjpeg @ 99???????

[medievil]

you can't. you can try using a 3:2 (not 2;3) pullup dfilter after you completed the cap. But it's been my experience that captures should remain Ntsc (or Pal) for quality purposes.

[DJRumpy]

This assumes that you have your source file in AVI format. Convert back to it if necessary.

You can convert your film back to 23.976 fps using Virtual Dub, or AVISynth (whichever you prefer). This assumes that your source is telecined (it probably is. The NTSC Star Wars are telecined to 29.97fps).

In virtualdub, you can either find and download an IVTC filter to do the work, or you can try this method:

Video | Frame Rate
Source Rate: No Change
Frame Rate Decimation: Process all frames
Inverse Telecine: Reconstruct from fields - Adaptive

Set your compression codec (Preferably HUFFY), and then FILE | SAVE AVI. Your saved AVI should be back to the original 23.976 framerate.

For AVISynth, just read the docs for the scripting. If offers a few different methods for performing IVTC on a source file.

[Mythos2002]

Well, I finally won an auction for the Definitive Collection Laserdiscs. Now I need some advice. I don't have a laserdisc player and would like to know the best one to get for under $150.

I also need to know what else I need and the best way to do a 235.1 16:9 conversion.

My system information is located in my profile. Please let me know what other devices I may need to hook the LD Player to my PC. I have a SPDIF connector that came with my motherboard, but it is not connected yet. My soundcard is also built in and only has the small connectors that you hook PC speakers to. Thanks.

Mythos

[medievil]

mythos,

Even though I don't hvae LD, IMO, I think that the VHS (any versions) would
probably look better, -vhelp

Ummm, No...LD is just under DVD in resolution. VHS is on the bottom.
ANY Capture from LD (With the exception of just using a bad LD player) will look better. There are more lines of resolution to give a sharper, more detailed picture.
While I don't dispute that you get good results with VHS (Lots of us do:P )
A LD rip will blow vhs away.

[vhelp]

evening guys.

medievil,
Yes, it's always nice to know how peoples like yourself are always here
to hand out hats ta eat - when one is wrong. Yes, I believe I may have
ben wrong. But, my bases for my judgement on quality was on those that were
posted here. And, well, they were as good as a VCD in comparison to VHS
quality. But, it may very well be true that very good Encodes from LD
captures CAN be produced after all. Back in July, I was only able to see a
handful of LD capture samples, and the quality was not of DVD or near it at
the time (july)

But still, I have yet to see an encoding done via LD source, and in very good
quality, as you are so nicely putting it. Are you trying to say that you have
some LD samples that you did?? If so, please post or at least post a link to
some samples we all can have a looksees at K?

>> A LD rip will blow vhs away.
Well, I hope you have some samples ...cause I'd sure like to see some.

The postee of this thread finally realized that it was his LD unit that was at
fault. W/ that in mind, I would have to say then, that my statement was or may
have ben incorect.

Oh, yes, I was in err about LD capture/encode quality (if done right and w/ a
good quality LD player) That what you wanted ta hear, he, he...

-vhelp

[e.lectronick]

I'm not sure if this is possible, or indeed if anyone has already mentioned it, but is it possible to take advantage of the slightly lower resolution and widescreen format of the Star Wars Laserdiscs to cram the whole movie into one 4.7Gig disc without much (or any compression)?
I've been wondering if you can simply make the capture or encoding software *not* use up valuble bandwidth on the top and bottom bars in a widescreen movie. If it's just black anyway, can it be reduced to a minimal storage size, leaving more room for the actual image?
Somebody give me the straight poop on this please? I've got all the different versions on laserdisc and I want to make the best possible DVD copy since I've heard Lucas will never release the originals on disc. He's determined to meddle with them until they suck Bantha poodoo.
-Erik.

[flaninacupboard]

for just the movie on a disc you're looking at aroun 4.5mbps average, which isn't great, but not atrocious either. you can get excellent results from LD capping, especially with PAL discs because of the higher bandwidth video. cast your eyes here www.geocities.com/flaninacupboard for some examples. open seg22d.avi and look at the fine detail on c3p0's body, he's all corroded and manky! or for you 56k users open seg22.jpg for a nice clear still frame. i've also done seg28d.avi so you can see how good the space scenes look! trust me the mpeg2's are a lot nicer looking, and i've nearly finished the bajillion hour process of 2passvbr ready to go onto DVD-r, i've got a queue a mile long of people wanting to, uh, evaluate my encoding. for money.
experiment, play!