Star Wars Conversions-Hit me with your best shot...

[Mythos2002]

Thanks Robster. I tried out the files. The only problem is that you set both to 4:3. I'm trying to do 16:9. When I set 4:3 for source and 16:9 for display, I get black bars on the sides. You mentioned something about doing 16:9 Anamorphic conversions. What settings are you using for those? I only have a 4:3 TV right now, but I will have a 16:9 one in the future.

Thanks for your help.

Mythos

[Robster]

To change it to 16:9 encoding you only need to change Aspect Ratio setting on 'Video' to 16:9.

I'm not really sure why you're getting black bars on the sides. The video has the same number of horizontal pixels. Are you getting the bars when played back on the PC or when burned to DVD and played on the TV?

Tell you what, upload YOUR encoded test file and I'll look at it here.

[Mythos2002]

I get the black bars on the sides on everything I play the encodes on. They aren't the overscan lines. These bars are a good couple of inches thick. The only ways I've found around them is to set 16:9 for both Display and Source if I use Full Screen (Keep Aspect Ratio) or I can use a 4:3 Source setting if I use Center for video arrange method. If you want I can also upload a clip where I used 16:9 for both settings so you can see if it looks right. Thanks.

Robster. I was taking another look at your encode and noticed something. I like the way your colors came out. It was a little brighter than mine. Did you use any of the color correction in TMPNGEnc? I didn't have any of the filters set except for maybe clip frame or source range. I want to thank you for your suggestion of not using the noise reduction setting. Not using that has drastically sped up TMPNGEnc without a noticable compromise of quality in the picture.

Mythos

[indolikaa]

Myth,

Have you decided why your frame seemed so much darker than the two I posted? I was curious about that...

[Mythos2002]

It's probably due to either my color settings or not using a filter. I don't have anything set under Canopus DV Codec setting in TMPNGEnc (Option--->Environmental Setting-->General Tab). I also don't have anything set under Quantize matrix or anything under Simple or Custom Color Correction. It may also be the way my videocard handles it. I doubt that part because the captures are lighter than the encodes. Do you use anything to process color? Would it be better if I set the brightness a little higher in TMPNGEnc? I would like to have the color look right. I noticed Robster's and your pictures have better color than mine. Thanks.

Mythos

[indolikaa]

I only used TMPGEnc for straight conversion, so there were no color changes (at least as far as I know!) and no special processing. The final product was pleasing enough on a television that I had left it alone; the scene in question looks OK to me on the tube. I wonder if Robster may have an idea on this one?

[Mythos2002]

I'm sorry to be a pest. I think I worked out my aspect ratio problem. If I use 16:9 for both display and source, it looks right when I preview it on the TV and my PC. I also have been doing work on the colors. I read through the TMPNGEnc documentation and found that if I bump up the gamma a little on the Simple Color Correction filter, it looks better instead of being so dark. I'm going to have to get DVDLab and maybe DVDMenu for my authoring and menu creation.

I do have another question about the sound. Can I choose System (Video Only) and then go back and do the sound separately? I already have a separate wave file, but I'm still struggling with the external encoder part. I ask about the sound because it only takes a fraction time to encode the sound as it does to do the video. Robster mention using uncompressed PCM for his Pink Floyd conversion. Would that be the best thing for me to use since I am doing two disc versions for each film?

I'm currently letting the TMPNGEnc run in auto mode to insert I Pictures. I'm going to let it finish and go back through manually and insert I Pictures wherever the auto mode missed the scene changes. I read back through that section of the forum and believe I understand it well enough now.

Thanks.

Mythos

[Robster]

I like the way your colors came out. It was a little brighter than mine. Did you use any of the color correction in TMPNGEnc?

They should be visible in the Simple Colour Correction part of my settings. I use Brightness +18 (or 20, can't remember) and Red -25.

The red is taken down because LDs typically have 'hot' reds and tend to oversaturate. The Brightness adjustment goes back to that discussion a while ago regarding IRE levels. I capture at IRE 7.5 and then take the brightness up a bit. If I capture at IRE 0 then take the brightness down, it looks worse and if I make no adjustment, it doesn't look right either. My settings look right to me, so I'm happy.

The final product was pleasing enough on a television that I had left it alone; the scene in question looks OK to me on the tube

Not sure. I always think DVD playback on computer monitors looks awful compared to TVs anyway.

If I use 16:9 for both display and source, it looks right when I preview it on the TV and my PC

Bizarre. We're both using TMPGEnc with the same settings and get different results. Oh well, if it works - use it!

and found that if I bump up the gamma a little on the Simple Color Correction filter, it looks better instead of being so dark

OK, if the problem you have is similar to mine (related to IRE levels), then it's Brightness you need to adjust, not gamma.

IRE defines the black level - and the Brightness control also affects black level. Gamma changes the all shades inbetween pure black and white so you can end up 'crushing' the shades if you're not careful. Contrast, incidentally, controls peak light output.

Try it with Brightness at around +20 and see how you get on.

Can I choose System (Video Only) and then go back and do the sound separately? I already have a separate wave file, but I'm still struggling with the external encoder part. I ask about the sound because it only takes a fraction time to encode the sound as it does to do the video. Robster mention using uncompressed PCM for his Pink Floyd conversion. Would that be the best thing for me to use since I am doing two disc versions for each film?

I think though if you want to get Dolby Digital you're better off getting your BeSweet problems sorted. From what you said earlier it sounds like there's an issue with your Dolby codec.

Without doubt, uncompressed is the way to go if you can use it. Splitting the movies roughly in half means it'll fit fine with plenty of space left over. I'm using it for my 2-disc SW conversions and I can hear the difference. As good as BeSweet is, it's a very basic Dolby converter. Studios use hard-ware based encoders costing many thousands of dollars.

You can download the latest BeSweet from here: http://dspguru.notrace.dk/

and if you go back to my FTP (it's back on now) you'll fine the AC-3 codec I use.

btw - going back to an earlier point - the split point during Empire Strikes Back. I've found the most satisfying break to be where Luke is running with Yoda in that scene immediately after the space slug. He puts Yoda down and then we see a brief shot of R2 tweeting away. I put my split point at the end of the R2 shot. Part two then picks up with Luke walking towards the 'nasty tree'.

[Mythos2002]

Thanks Robster. I tried the settings for color you suggested and they look good to me. I also downloaded the AC3 Filter.

I have a question about the uncompressed PCM. Do I still use an external encoder for that or let TMPNGEnc handle it? If I use an external encoder, which one do I use for uncompressed PCM?

It's strange, but setting 16:9 for both Display and Source work for me. However, I only have a 4:3 TV to try it on, so I may be screwed when I get a 16:9 set and try to watch these films. I'll probably end up that way anyway since HDTV shows all of the flaws.

I saved my GOP text file and will work on it more later. I think you took Borghe's advice and inserted I Pictures too. I looked at your template and it has 1 4 1 1 18 and the pattern is IBPBPBPBPB. Did that help with the quality? I'll probably change my pattern to match yours. My settings are 1 5 2 1 18 with a pattern of IBBPBBPBBPBBPBBP.

I really hope that Lucas wakes up and does the right thing by releasing the original versions on DVD. I don't know why he is being such an ass except for the reason that he can. I decided that if he can make a decision based on the far future that I can as well. I have decided not to go to the theater to see Episode III. People think I am crazy, but I didn't care for Episode I & II, so not seeing III in the theater is no big loss to me. I didn't even buy Clones II on DVD since I disliked it more than TPM. I know I'm in the minority there, but I can't stand Anakin. I also didn't care about the big battle because it looked like a videogame. If I wanted a videogame, I would play one instead of watching one. I will reconsider my position about Episode III if he reconsiders his. I know I'm nothing to him, but I wish everyone would jump on the bandwagon and make Episode III the biggest flop in history to teach him a lesson that he can't do whatever he wants and still have everyone worship him. Sorry about the insane rant, but I don't see what the harm is in releasing both versions of the films. It's not like we are saying not to release his preferred Special of Ultimate or whatever he calls those versions he is cooking up. People will buy both.

Mythos

Anyone know what happened to therick? He is the guy that started this thread, but he disappeared. I wonder if he ever finished his conversions.

[Robster]

Do I still use an external encoder for that or let TMPNGEnc handle it?

Nope, leave it as it is. Just process video only in TMPGEnc and leave the audio WAV file alone. When you come to author your DVD, just import the WAV file.

Only thing - it needs to be 48khz, not the standard 44.1khz found on LD. My Canopus card lets me capture audio directly at 48khz so I didn't need to do anything to it, but you can convert it easy enough using Sound Forge or other audio apps.

[Mythos2002]

Thanks. I already was able to convert it to 48000 with Virtual Dub. I had to capture at 44100 because the sound was always sped up and out of sync when I captured at 48000. I wish I had more money to invest in this project. I think that you are right and that I will be happy with the final project once I'm done. I'm getting happier with each progression and I don't really have the optimal equipment to do this with.

Once I finish all three films, I may have a crack at Gettysburg. I have the DVD, but the director's cut was only available on VHS and LD. I'm glad I have the DVD because it appears to be out of print. I remeber Warner saying something in a chat transcript that it has been withdrawn from the US due to legal problems. I wonder what type of legal problems they have. I don't know. The US is a strange place. Did you know the American film Vanishing Point (1971 version) is only available on DVD in Region 2 (Europe)? It has been out there for nearly a year with no Region 1 release in site. I think it would be easier if there were no Region Codes and we all used PAL. From what I understand, it is better than NTSC anyway. We are also slow at converting to 16:9 HDTV.

Mythos

[tarpot]

Cropping means to chop off part of the image - I presume (hope) you don't mean this

That is what I did. Just cropping the "black bars". These are then put back by the dvd player to get the correct aspect ratio. It does look better that a 4:3 version I did. Less line structure.

[Robster]

I had a terrifying thought then that you'd cropped off the actual film image to fit a TV screen.

*shudder*

[Robster]

I'm currently working on the conversion for The Piano. The DVD that's out looks pretty rough and sounds thin and tinny. The LD looks nicer and sounds a lot better too. My conversion will be a 2-disc job with uncompressed audio again. A fantastically detailed soundtrack.

[geek rock]

Cropping means to chop off part of the image - I presume (hope) you don't mean this

That is what I did. Just cropping the "black bars". These are then put back by the dvd player to get the correct aspect ratio. It does look better that a 4:3 version I did. Less line structure.

i hope you didn't crop all of the black bars. star wars is filmed in 2.35:1 ratio, which means that there will still be black bars hard-coded into the video stream.

to make the video stream 16:9 you have to crop a certain amount of pixels from the top and bottom. i can't remember the exact number, i'm sure somebody here will know.

[Robster]

Geek Rock, if you encode using TMPGEnc, you can crop the entire black-bar area. This replaces the hard-coded bars with pure black, making the encoders life a bit easier. The actual aspect ratio is maintained, so you end up with the same 2.35:1 (ish) image, just with new freshly-painted letterboxing borders

[geek rock]

thanks robster - that isn't really what i was meaning, though. from the gist of tarpot's post, it seemed that he was cropping out everything and encoding the 2.35:1 image as 16:9. maybe i was wrong though..

[Robster]

it seemed that he was cropping out everything and encoding the 2.35:1 image as 16:9.

Ermm.. I think that's what he is saying. It works. Done it myself on my 2-disc conversions.

[tarpot]

I meant I cropped the black bars, not cut them completely. Otherwise I would get a stretched image on playback. Just the amount to compensate for the 16:9 enabling on my dvd player. Compared it to the laserdisc. The aspect ratio is the same and all looks fine on a 40" screen.
Compared to the 4:3 dvd I made, the one I did 16:9 seems smoother.
I may not have gone about it in a text book fashion, but it works for me.

[Robster]

For my 4:3 and 16:9 encoded SW conversions, I cropped the letterboxing borders completely. As long as the other settings in TMPGENc are correct, it'll work.

They look fine and the aspect ratio is dead-on.

[funkguy4]

2.35:1 is not close enuff to 16:9 to encode it like that. You have to letterbox the 2.35:1 image into a 16:9 frame. as for the widescreen looking funny on a 4:3 TV, it wont. your DVD player will auto-letterbox it since it know u have a 4:3 TV.

[tarpot]

I am new to this so bear with me.
I can crop the black bars completely, then set TMPG to 16:9 which will then squeeze it back down to a still stretched image but with 16:9 black bars? Then I can add 16:9 player enable with ifoedit, once I've made the ifos.
I know I may not have the terms correct and I'm gonna come off sounding like a dummy, but any advice is appreciated.

[funkguy4]

Man, just load up your VOBs into DVD2AVI, since they come with the black bars that they need. Save the project, and keep the AC3 audio for later. Afterward, load up your DVD2AVi project into TMPGEnc, and set it for 23.976 (29.97 when playback) with a 3:2 pulldown flag. Encode it as 16:9, and for the first few minutes set the preview option to display with thinning and to have the window size at 649x360 or 864x486. It will look like it should, blah blah, u guys r funny.

[GKar]

Excellent quality achieved on Widescreen Star Wars 4,5,6 VHS to DVD:
Captured 720*480 AVI using Geforce4 Ti4200VTD and VirtualDub (HuffyUV compression), 48KHZ PCM sound. TmpGenc for MPEG2 conversion, Tmpgenc Author for DVD file structures, Nero Express to burn. Files wer in the 60-65GB range, one file though with Windows XP and NTFS filesystem. Sound was captured thru Hercules Fortissimo II sound card. My bit rates for the video were in the 4000-4500K range, sound bitrate was 384K Mpeg2 48KHZ 16bit.

[Robster]

2.35:1 is not close enuff to 16:9 to encode it like that. You have to letterbox the 2.35:1 image into a 16:9 frame.

Cropping the letterboxing borders completely in TMPGENc is the method I use and it works perfectly. No loss of image and crisp, 16:9 encoded images showing at the correct proportions.

TMPGEnc is probably smart enough to know exactly what it's doing. Seems to, anyway. Just don't tell me it's wrong.

[DivXExpert]

There is such thing as 16:9 enhanced. No need to letterbox then animorphic. This is what TMPGEnc does when the panarama is more than 1.77:1.

[tarpot]

2.35:1 is not close enuff to 16:9 to encode it like that. You have to letterbox the 2.35:1 image into a 16:9 frame.

Cropping the letterboxing borders completely in TMPGENc is the method I use and it works perfectly. No loss of image and crisp, 16:9 encoded images showing at the correct proportions.

TMPGEnc is probably smart enough to know exactly what it's doing. Seems to, anyway. Just don't tell me it's wrong.

Robster. I don't want to sound like the newbie I am. But can you talk me through your TMPG settings used to convert your avi?
I've completed one film doing this sort of thing, but wondered what your method was.

[Mythos2002]

This adding I-Pictures is a real pain. I've been doing some, saving, and coming back to it periodically. I wish there was an easier way. I did the auto mode, but it missed a lot of scene changes. So, I have to go back through and add the pictures where the auto mode missed them.

I have a question about that. Did you have to add any B or P Pictures? I see that if you right click, you have the option to add those instead of I-Pictures.

18,000 frames down 67,000 or so to go.

Mythos

[indolikaa]

The final product was pleasing enough on a television that I had left it alone; the scene in question looks OK to me on the tube

Um, me speak English better this try!

The straight-through TMPGEnc looked 'decent' on my Sony computer monitor. It looked nice, very nice, on my Sony XBR television. I was happy enough with the results on the Sony TV that I didn't do any further processing. I would like to process it further, but I'm still learning about all these fun things I'm reading about (IRE, Is and Bs and Ps and GOPs, etc.)

Not sure. I always think DVD playback on computer monitors looks awful compared to TVs anyway.

Agreed!

[funkguy4]

That's because the computer monitor is at too high a resolution to maintain the DVD-Quality. The TV is relatively low-res, so it looks wonderful there.