Advice: DVD-RW or DVD+RW

[jowel13]

"officially supported" by what?

hp dvd 100i? that was the first generation drive.

you are comparing apples and oranges.

the journey begun a longggggg time ago.

read the post above.

:P

[VideoMann]

Boss

True HP DVD100 is a dead horse but the DVD+R/+RW is already in the second generation. You can buy HP DVD200i and it leaves any Pioneer drive DVD-R/-RW in the dust, compatibility, andflexibility. Furthermore the DVD+R/+RW is just as compatible as DVD-R/-RW and most reviews are outdated on DVD+R/+RW technology.

The DVD Stanp of standarization that you see on DVD-R/-RW players are nothing but a SELF-Promotion by the DVD Forum which was formed especifically to promote DVD-R/-RW and are in effect a marketing tool to fool the consumer.

The biggest name in DVD development and technology goes to Netherlads Philip Company whch are the main backers of DVD+R/+RW format. No other company knows more about DVD Technology as Philips and they put their name behind the DVD+R/+RW format.

In addition you have Ricoh/HP/Compaq/and Sony (on both sides)
while DVD-R/-RW is backed only by Pioneer and survives on the large purchases of Apple.

Microsoft has already committed itself to be a big supporter of DVD+R/+RW format by developing future WindowsOS components to be compatible with DVD+R/+RW

Now that is what I call a standard format, when major companies go behind a product for wide support rather than a self made comittee like the DVD Forum that has only one goal to promote DVD-R/-RW.
Now members in the DVD Forum are also companies that support DVD+R/+RW format but are there more as watchers than policy shaping on the DVD Forum itself. Make no mistake the leading force behind the DVD Forum is Pioneer.

The multi-drives is a desperate attempt to keep alive DVD-RAM which will eventually die in the "common consumer market" ( may survive in data backup and video for specialized companies). There is nothing multi-drive about a drive that does not support the second most popular DVD writable format DVD+R/+RW and that eventually will be the dominant format because of its inherent flexibility in the standard for data backup, video archiving, video editing which can only be done more poorly in DVD-R/-RW. The DVD +R/+RW drives will always be significantly faster than DVD-R because of the format even when the mechanics and optics of the drives are the same.

[Tommy]

Just go with the drive that will make you happy. 8) If you think about it it will take them a few years to figure out which format will survive by that time it will be time to get a new drive. As long as the stuff you create can play where you want it to play....it should be fine.

[edo]

Boss
In addition you have Ricoh/HP/Compaq/and Sony (on both sides)
while DVD-R/-RW is backed only by Pioneer and survives on the large purchases of Apple.

Microsoft has already committed itself to be a big supporter of DVD+R/+RW format by developing future WindowsOS components to be compatible with DVD+R/+RW

It's a lot more than just Pioneer backing -R. How about Panasonic?
Also Asus (hardly a small concern) have just released a new -R drive. OK, it's badged, but it is a DVD-R.

The fact that Microsoft mentioned +R in passing should be enough in itself to knacker it

Seriously, I have no axe to grind either way and agree with some of the other posts .... go with which you feel comfortable with, it will probably do what you need of it.

Cheers ....

[ABEG]

It is always funny to see someone trying to justify an overpriced purchase to ease their mind.

DVD-R/RW is more compatible with settop players than DVD+R/RW, not the other way around. Reviews are not outdated. We have a +R/+RW and a -R/-RW here and the -R/-RW will load everytime on both my Samsung home player and Xbox whereas +R/+RW will not consistently boot. We currently use +R/+RW for computer data backup because of the higher speed but now will only use -R/-RW for anything video. It should also be noted that Sony has now decided to back -R/-RW instead and has backed out of the +R/+RW market.

Media is way too overpriced for +R/+RW drives. It is true that branded discs, i.e. Pioneer run close to the same price, but I now use OptoDisc -R/-RW media which has worked perfectly for me and only costs $1.80 a disc.

If I were to purchase one drive at this point in time I would most definitely purchase a -R/-RW drive. Not only do they run about $100 less, but the media is much, much cheaper and affordable. Especially considering the fact that the people on these boards are mainly interested in authoring DVD video.

This is not to say that +R/+RW may not be the better format in the future once people are no longer using as many older DVD players and the format war brings +R/+RW drive/media costs down, but for now spend wisely and purchase a -R/-RW drive. We will all be upgrading six months to a year from now anyways. It makes no sense to needlessly waste your money at this point.

[jowel13]

If I were to purchase one drive at this point in time I would most
definitely purchase a -R/-RW drive. Not only do they run about $100 less, but the media is much, much cheaper and affordable. Especially considering the fact that the people on these boards are mainly interested in authoring DVD video.

$100 Less???

We have a retail Ricoh MP5125A just badged with a different company for $309....

http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=RT-6880A

and we have an OEM Ricoh MP5125A here for $297...

http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=RW5125

If you point me to an A04 for $197, I'll buy it on the SPOT!!!

With the compatibility stories, I have had higher compatibility rate with DVD+R than DVD-R. Also, you can get DVD+R media for as cheap as $3.00 a piece now. People have reported many problems with the lower priced DVD-R's.

[Slinkie]

It is always funny to see someone trying to justify an overpriced purchase to ease their mind.

Almost as funny as seeing someone try to justify their allegiance to a slightly less powerful/older medium to ease their minds.

DVD-R/RW is more compatible with settop players than DVD+R/RW, not the other way around. Reviews are not outdated.

There are _no_ outdated reviews on this stuff? You can make a solid argument that anything more than 3 months old is outdated, given the pace of technology, firmware updates, software patches, etc.

We have a +R/+RW and a -R/-RW here and the -R/-RW will load everytime on both my Samsung home player and Xbox whereas +R/+RW will not consistently boot.

You have a legitimate case with the Samsung player, but using an Xbox as a test bed? I'd likely use one to anchor a boat before that.

It should also be noted that Sony has now decided to back -R/-RW instead and has backed out of the +R/+RW market.

Yes, they've backed out by selling the DRU 120a. They also seem to have backed out by not having any -R/-RW drives on their web site.

http://www.sonystyle.com/home/scat.jsp?hierc=9683x9714x9715&scatid=9715

They also seem to have backed out by not supporting DVD-Multi format, which includes everything but +R/+RW.

Buy what you want, ignore the people who defend what they've bought, just try to get a sense of the facts. They both seem to have decent compatability with most players, media prices are getting closer (a trend that will surely continue), drive prices are getting closer (another trend that's going to continue). +R is a little more fully-featured, and less-supported by a forum that's got a serious investment in protecting a technology they've aligned themselves behind. -R is more popular at the moment.

-- Slinkie

[Kusanagi]

Yes, they've backed out by selling the DRU 120a. They also seem to have backed out by not having any -R/-RW drives on their web site.

http://www.sonystyle.com/home/scat.jsp?hierc=9683x9714x9715&scatid=9715

Buy what you want, ignore the people who defend what they've bought, just try to get a sense of the facts.

To give someone just a "sense of the facts", you better be sure yours are correct, too...

Again, Sony is still offering their DVD+RW/+R drive kits in retail. HOWEVER, they seem to be full steam ahead now with DVD-R/-RW - as all Sony Vaio computers equipped with a DVD burner are DVD-R/-RW (Pioneer DVR-104) not DVD+RW. Also, Sony's DVD set-top recorder uses the DVD-R/-RW formats (again, no DVD+RW), their new laptop combo drive is DVD-R/-RW, and have increased production on DVD-R/-RW media. Links to this and more info here -

http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d234dd52d7dffff;act=ST;f=5;t=16

http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d234dd52d7dffff;act=ST;f=5;t=24

http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d234dd52d7dffff;act=ST;f=5;t=22

http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d234dd52d7dffff;act=ST;f=15;t=38

http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d234dd52d7dffff;act=ST;f=3;t=95


Kusanagi

[Kusanagi]

The DVD Stanp of standarization that you see on DVD-R/-RW players are nothing but a SELF-Promotion by the DVD Forum which was formed especifically to promote DVD-R/-RW and are in effect a marketing tool to fool the consumer.

A marketing tool to fool the consumer??

IMHO, for the DVD Forum to be adding the DVD-R logo to new DVD players (as Panasonic is doing now - see my previous posts) HELPS the consumer. Someone walks into a Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. sees the DVD-R logo on a certain player/box and KNOWS it will work with their home videos burned on DVD-R media. Without any type of logo for +RW, consumers are left to guess if DVD+R/+RW media will even work in the intended player to be purchased. I think it is the lack of a +R or +RW logo (which, again from http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/mess.htm#mess - there is No DVD Logo to represent +RW or DVD+RW technology authorized by the DVD Forum or approved by DVD FLLC) on new DVD players that fools and confuses your regular-day consumer more than anything else (remember, not everyone comes to vcdhelp to check compatibility first, before buying that new DVD player - thus, the usefulness and importance of a DVD-R logo for those that don't).


Kusanagi

[Slinkie]

Nothing I said was factually incorrect. They still support DVD+R. They don't seem to be backing away from it, they seem to be expanding support for DVD-R, a different thing. It may seem like a semantics thing, but if they were pulling support for it, they'd pull it and be done with it.

It comes down to money. Is anybody making a DVD+R drive for laptops yet? If not (or if there is some other conflict), then it's far simpler to OEM DVD-R drives for the VAIO line if they want to be able to tout DVD burning capability in their laptops. Same with a set-top box, it's easier to OEM existing stuff (even internal parts) and re-brand it than to do the R+D yourself.

I just don't think it's that clear that they're abandoning support for DVD+R/+RW. There are more factors involved.

-- Slinkie

[vitualis]

I don't think that it is clear which format is necessarily better.

Certainly, DVD-R has the best set-top compatibility with older players and will almost definitely be supported in new ones. DVD+R is probably similar in compatibility. It is highly unlikely that DVD+R is "more" compatible though.

DVD-RW has similar compatibility to DVD+RW, but again, DVD-RW will probably be better supported in newer players.

DVD+R/W formats burn faster than DVD-R/W though.

As for PC data, DVD+R/W formats will probably get better support/integration than DVD-R/W. Be aware though, that in terms of the application of data storage, DVD-RAM is superior to both DVD-R/W/+R/W formats (and there are DVD-RAM/R drives out there).

In general, both formats will probably survive. What you get will depend on you. IMHO, if you focus is mainly on producing video discs, DVD-R/W format is probably better. If your focus is mainly on PC data storage, DVD+R/W formats may be a better choice.

Both formats have their good points and at the same time, both have aspects which are a pain in the arse.

Regards.

[MOVIEGEEK]

VideoMann brought up a good point about holographic disks unfortunatly
it may be 5 years away,so I'm going to start saving now.
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.asp?RelatedID=2556

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[ilscuro]

yg1968 wrote

make sure that it comes with a compatibility setting program for the +RW disc as it often improves chances of playback of a +RW disc on your DVD player (Ricoh and HP have such programs, the Sony drive doesn't)

well i have sonydru120a and i can assure you it does and the films ive done for friends and family work in every dvd ranging from jvc to yamaha

also can anyone see big guns sony,panasonic,hp etc really pulling out of the +r market the only bugbear at the moment is +r media prices and they are falling every day theres to much negativity against +r

[boss]

edo is right. pioneer are not the only company to back -r/rw, sony are now producing dvd-r's! you can buy them from amazon! maybe they have accepted -r/rw will eventully dominate the dvd video recording market.
This thread is starting remind me of all those "my video games console is better than yours" arguments from ten years ago. calm down guys. we're not kids!

[ember]

Yes- we're adults - let's discuss in a rational way.
Right: C64 vs ZX Spectrum. ZX had better gameplay and higher res. The SAM Coupe kicked ass. Anyone disagree here?

[Kusanagi]

sony are now producing dvd-r's! you can buy them from amazon! maybe they have accepted -r/rw will eventully dominate the dvd video recording market.

Yep, Sony is increasing production on DVD-R/-RW media.

Info/product links here -

http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d234dd52d7dffff;act=ST;f=15;t=38

http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/V-ME/DVDR120/index.html

http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/V-ME/DVDM120/index.html

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000632HM/qid=1027275396/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104...899234-9953512


Kusanagi

[Kennyshin]

Boss
In addition you have Ricoh/HP/Compaq/and Sony (on both sides)
while DVD-R/-RW is backed only by Pioneer and survives on the large purchases of Apple.

Microsoft has already committed itself to be a big supporter of DVD+R/+RW format by developing future WindowsOS components to be compatible with DVD+R/+RW

It's a lot more than just Pioneer backing -R. How about Panasonic?
Also Asus (hardly a small concern) have just released a new -R drive. OK, it's badged, but it is a DVD-R.

The fact that Microsoft mentioned +R in passing should be enough in itself to knacker it

Seriously, I have no axe to grind either way and agree with some of the other posts .... go with which you feel comfortable with, it will probably do what you need of it.

Cheers ....

Asus will also release a DVD+R drive, and yes, it will be another "rebadged" Ricoh OEM maybe.

Most Taiwanese manufacturers will support DVD+RW instead of DVD-RW. Seriously, why do they need to support DVD-RW when there IS already DVD+RW if they have invested virtually zero in neither technology? That's also true of South Korean manufacturers like Samsung Electronics and LG Electronics. Also, Yamaha and Plextor. The exception might be Sanyo but Sanyo will be another company that for the time being supports both DVD-R and DVD+R like Sony and Asus. Also, there are very many companies that sell both DVD+R and DVD-R drives. Like the gigantic Japanese distributor/manufacturer IO DATA. They just make and/or sell when one thing is available and then move into another when also available.