CCE Encoder Problem 2

[homerpez]

This thread is continuing from another, where the guy kept on getting e-mail notifications he didn't want.

If you want to read up, the old topic is at:

www.vcdhelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=53352&forum=3

But reply from now on to this one. OK?

On we go!...

[VidGuy]

Handy tip for CCE users who use AVS scripts:

double click on the filename, then click on the "Select" button right next to the input file name, then doubleclick on that - that brings you to a "frame select" dialog. Enter some frame number like 10000 and hit tab. You should see a "correct" picture of your video. If you see things like red letters saying "AVISYNTH: can't find video in line 2", then you need to fix your script.

This has saved me hours of wasted encoding time (well, at least once I started doing it - I've wasted a few hours in my time)....

species8514 should either turn off email notification, or learn to deal with the way forums really work.......

[homerpez]

I agree with the last comment, but I feel slightly responsible (especially after "talking to myself" with 3 posts in a row)...

I don't know if this method works (when I tried this before my latest try in CCE, it said "no codec available for YUV2" or something, but I'll see the final result when I get home tonight... soomed to be encoding properly, anyway... we'll see...

I did the .avs opening with Media Player, and when it's right, it will bring up the resized video like you said. And, if it's wrong, it will show the error and where it took place.

[Truman]

To use the frame selection, install a YUY2 codec, for example Ben's popular Huffyuv (should be found at the tool section). Then go to driver/codec directory. I'm running WinME and here it is named c:\windows\SYSTEM.INI. Open with notepad.
After installing the huffyuv codec, you should find there the line VIDC.HFYU=huffyuv.dll. Don't change it.
Just add the line: VIDC.YUY2=huffyuv.dll
Save changes and reboot.

[homerpez]

Hmm. doesn't seem to matter.

I actually got through an encode! And, oddly enough, it came out the CORRECT file size! And what else? I was able to MULTIPLEX! And, yes, even make a .bin image with no error messages!

This is due, in no small part, to your help, Truman. I was also flabergasted... I had heard that CCE was better at VBR (both MPEG-1 and MPEG-2), but I didn't expect this. I managed to put a 2 hour, 2 minute movie, with 128k stereo audio, on ONE CD. (720 AVG bitrate!)

The main difference is with CCE, there is ZERO blockiness. It seems when the bitrate is low, or there is a high-action scene, it acts more like a VHS take on EP speed. Basically, the picture gets just a little noisy, instead of blocky. On TMPGEnc, it gets BOTH noisy AND blocky!

Now hopefully I'm on the giving end of advice for this, rather than recieving...

[homerpez]

BTW: (Forgot to respond directly to your post!) The YUV2 codec was unnecessary, as I didn't need to preview (I just let the whole thing go from the start, since it was a movie). Worked out great, even without a preview!

I guess my new "rule of thumb" now is, if it's a long movie, to use CCE (which seems to be phenomenal), and for episodic things (TV shows, shorter clips) that requite frame-by-frame editing, synching, filters, I'll use TMPGEnc.

[Truman]

You may try the temporal smoother filter for Avisynth to get a better picture quality.
http://pub28.ezboard.com/fdoom9smpegforumfrm8.showMessage?topicID=108.topic

[homerpez]

Thanks for the link, Truman... but I don't know if I need it... I mean, I can't stress this enough, I've never seen anything like this for a VBR with an AVG of only 720! On TMPGEnc, there would be blocks all over the place (in fact I ran this movie through that the day before, and the WAS!)

I assume this is just a modified MPEG2DEC.dll, but with the temporal/spacial filters added to it? (Correct me if I'm wrong before I download) So I can just type in something like:

TemporalSmoother(2)

And it will work with .avs scripts? (Before or after resize?)

I'll have to give that one a try sometime... Thanks again...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-09 03:56:58 ]</font>

[Truman]

Right, it's a modified MPEG2DEC.DLL

example

LoadPlugin("C:\full path\MPEG2DEC.DLL")
mpeg2source("D:\full path\movie.d2v")
BicubicResize(480,360,0,0.75,0,0,720,480)
TemporalSmoother(2)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)

It slows down the speed drasticly. Until now I haven't used it for a whole movie, for tests only.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Truman on 2001-08-09 05:26:55 ]</font>

[homerpez]

Great, here we go again.

I just finished doing one movie, and it worked great. Now I have another, same problem!

On this one, I have an AVG bitrate of 870 (then 872 just to see if changing it would help, see below)... it again creates a movie that's only 480MB for the video file, when it should be well over 600MB.

When I multiplexed with bbMPEG, it read the AVG as being only 600! It would play the movie back correctly (as in the frame was the right shape/size, in synch), but then it crashed the player.

Below are my .avs and .ecl files. Let's get to the bottom of this! (Am I the only person this happens to?)


AVS FILE (LINKING TO .D2V PROJECT)

-----------------------------------------------------

LoadPlugin("D:\WINNT\SYSTEM\MPEG2DEC.DLL&quot
mpeg2source("D:\video\vobs\gb\ghostbusters.d2v&quo t
bicubicresize(352,176).addborders(0,32,0,32)
TemporalSmoother(2)


ECL FILE:
-----------------------------------------------------

; Cinema Craft Encoder SP -- Encoder Control List

[item]
title=GHOSTBUSTERS
vid_out=1
vaf_out=1
aud_out=0
vid_file0=D:\Video\vobs\gb\ghostbusters.mpv
vid_file1=D:\Video\vobs\gb\ghostbusters.mpv
vaf_file=D:\Video\vobs\gb\ghostbusters.vaf
aud_file=D:\Video\vobs\gb\ghostbusters.mpa
file_focused=0
encode_mode=0
packet_size=4096
timecode=0x1000000
width=352
height=240
vmode=2
frame_rate_idx=1
cbr_brate=6000
opv_q_factor=60
opv_brate_min=2000
opv_brate_max=9000
vbr_brate_avg=872
vbr_brate_min=300
vbr_brate_max=2300
vbr_bias=30
vbr_pass=3
quality_prec=25
use_filter=0
filter_val=6
seq_endcode=1
dvd=0
half_width=0
half_height=0
fast_mode=0
progressive=0
alternate_scan=1
non_linear=1
top_first=1
lum_level=0
intra_dc_prec=2
aspect_ratio=2
gop_m=3
gop_nm=5
gop_hdr=15
seq_hdr=1
all_closed_gop=0
fix_gop_length=0
mpeg1=1
mpeg1_cps=0
samples_per_sec=0
stereo=2
brate_idx=7
crc=1

[file]
name=D:\Video\vobs\gb\ghost.avs
type=0
frame_first=0
frame_last=151218
encode_first=0
encode_last=151218

-------------------------------------------------------

it appears I'm cursed!


Different subject: I tried the Temporal Smoother, and I dud notice a slight difference, but not really much of an encoding slowdown... cool stuff...

[homerpez]

Great, here we go again.

I just finished doing one movie, and it worked great. Now I have another, same problem!

On this one, I have an AVG bitrate of 870 (then 872 just to see if changing it would help, see below)... it again creates a movie that's only 480MB for the video file, when it should be well over 600MB.

When I multiplexed with bbMPEG, it read the AVG as being only 600! It would play the movie back correctly (as in the frame was the right shape/size, in synch), but then it crashed the player.

Below are my .avs and .ecl files. Let's get to the bottom of this! (Am I the only person this happens to?)


AVS FILE (LINKING TO .D2V PROJECT)

-----------------------------------------------------

LoadPlugin("D:\WINNT\SYSTEM\MPEG2DEC.DLL")
mpeg2source("D:\video\vobs\gb\ghostbusters.d2v")
bicubicresize(352,176).addborders(0,32,0,32)
TemporalSmoother(2)


ECL FILE:
-----------------------------------------------------

; Cinema Craft Encoder SP -- Encoder Control List

[item]
title=GHOSTBUSTERS
vid_out=1
vaf_out=1
aud_out=0
vid_file0=D:\Video\vobs\gb\ghostbusters.mpv
vid_file1=D:\Video\vobs\gb\ghostbusters.mpv
vaf_file=D:\Video\vobs\gb\ghostbusters.vaf
aud_file=D:\Video\vobs\gb\ghostbusters.mpa
file_focused=0
encode_mode=0
packet_size=4096
timecode=0x1000000
width=352
height=240
vmode=2
frame_rate_idx=1
cbr_brate=6000
opv_q_factor=60
opv_brate_min=2000
opv_brate_max=9000
vbr_brate_avg=872
vbr_brate_min=300
vbr_brate_max=2300
vbr_bias=30
vbr_pass=3
quality_prec=25
use_filter=0
filter_val=6
seq_endcode=1
dvd=0
half_width=0
half_height=0
fast_mode=0
progressive=0
alternate_scan=1
non_linear=1
top_first=1
lum_level=0
intra_dc_prec=2
aspect_ratio=2
gop_m=3
gop_nm=5
gop_hdr=15
seq_hdr=1
all_closed_gop=0
fix_gop_length=0
mpeg1=1
mpeg1_cps=0
samples_per_sec=0
stereo=2
brate_idx=7
crc=1

[file]
name=D:\Video\vobs\gb\ghost.avs
type=0
frame_first=0
frame_last=151218
encode_first=0
encode_last=151218

-------------------------------------------------------

it appears I'm cursed!


Different subject: I tried the Temporal Smoother, and I did notice a slight difference, but not really much of an encoding slowdown... cool stuff... wonder if it will help TMPGEnc encodes any...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-11 15:12:30 ]</font>

[Truman]

I am at a loss...
I think, you should use a seperate line for AddBorders. But this will not solve the problem...

[homerpez]

waitaminit... I see what you mean. I don't know why it would help either, but I'll try it anyway (could be something just that silly, you never know)... I'll copy yours directly (by putting that line on the bottom)...

I'm thinking it has to be something on the odd side, I just got done doing 3 perfect encodes with it... now, this!

I'll keep ya posted...

[homerpez]

NO DICE.

I went again and changed it, but to no avail. Still does the same thing.

I even went and tried some detective work to see if any of the source material was bad. Well, turns out the .d2v project file was the first time around (Media Player Didn't complain, but TMPGEnc did), so I tried cropping a new project file a few frames shorter than the whole length, and it worked this time (in TMPGEnc). At this point, everyone is probably saying "Well, then why don't you just USE TMPGEnc to encode!"... I'm asking that myself now..

Anyway, I tried again using the new project file, the new fake AVI and then direct to CCE again, same files as above minus a few frames. Still comes out at approx. .6 MB/sec (that is to say, 600 bitrate). CCE is just plain ignoring my 870 AVG bitrate, and makes a corrupt video file the wrong size!

I'm beginning to wonder who would pay money for this !@#$% program... on all these tests, only one movie has succeeded!

Here's the only thing I can think of left... maybe I don't need to "AddBorders" at all? Since CCE can't resize anyway, maybe it'll just plaster it on a matte background? Not sure how it behaves....

I'll give like, maybe, 24 more hours to this, then I'll just encode with TMPGEnc...

{sigh}

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-13 03:52:23 ]</font>

[VidGuy]

Never tried CCE that low, but it may have a problem holding bitrate down there..
However, definitely do the AddBorders. If you don't, CCE will obligingly give you a 352 x 176 video, which won't do you much good when it comes time to burn it.

[homerpez]

I don't think it's the low bitrate in this case, since the last movie I did (which worked finally) was actually LOWER bitrate (only 720 or something like that). CCE is just plain doing this wrong.

Just curious, Vidguy, what are your CCE settings for a widescreen movie like this? (It's a 16:9 ratio, going to VCD 352x240, avs and ecl files above) Also, the .ecl file info? Something is definitely screwed up here...

...19 hours...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-13 08:54:51 ]</font>

[homerpez]

My 24 hours almost being up, (if not up already), here's some more weird info...

I tried a test run last night on 5000 "CCE frames" worth (or, something like 1:08 it said). I can tell if it worked if the "info" .vaf run's file size (of about 17-19MB) is pretty close to how big the file gets on the 3 passes. Plus, if it doesn't work, it crashes the player eventually. Here we go.

My original .avs file (same format as above) did not work, produced a file 70% of what it should have been. Corrupted.

I made an .avs file using FitCD (which I have no idea how to use, but tried anyway). Opened up the .d2v as the source, pointed it to mpeg2dec.dll, and had it resize. I didn't use the Temporal Smoother. Frame size was correct, but it resized the movie VERY incorrectly (too tall vertically), but the CCE encode worked!

Now, get this...

I tried using the same format style on my .avs file, just leaving out the Temporal Smoother command. Didn't work.

I tried again using FitCD. This time I set it to do an "Exact Bicubic Resize". Why someone wouldn't want to use this for a 16:9 conversion is beyond me. I didn't use the Temporal Smoother. Made a video file the correct aspect ratio, same exact frame size as it should be. Didn't work. Corrupt file.

WTF? Something to do with adding borders? Anyway, I MUST be cursed...

TMPGEnc it is...

[VidGuy]

You're avs is pretty close, although FitCD says to do:
Crop(27, 0, 666,480)
BicubicResize(352,190)
AddBorders(0,25,0,25)

to have the best aspect ratio match (0.14% error)

If you want to keep video out of the TV oversan area, then it would be
BicubicResize(320,15
AddBorders(16,41,16,41) (0% error)

The ecl looks OK (you're making a 23.976 fps VCD, correct?).
I'm not sure I'd use a 300-2300 range, but it shouldn't cause a problem.

Are you sure the number of frames is correct? If that number was too high, CCE might do unpredictable things.

[homerpez]

Might be on to something here...

How can I determine how many frames are there?

Here's how I do it now (to generate the ecl file, get CCE to open the d2v)

I make a DVD2AVI project (.d2v), I convert it with VFAPI("fake" .avi), then open the .avi in CCE. It then brings up a number for the frames (like 151218), then it creates a range (0 to 151218)... If this isn't correct, how can I find that out?

I used this method on the last movie, and it worked 100% correct. As near as I can tell, the only change between this one and the last is that this one is 16:9, the other was 4:3 ratio.

Now, do I have to use FitCD for .avs, or was mine correct enough to work? I'm not concerned on overscan (after all, on a TV with any DVD, there's still some there too!)

If the .avs is correct (it should be, except I'm not positive on the TemporalSmoother location), then maybe I have to re-examine how many frames are there... but HOW?...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-14 09:36:39 ]</font>

[homerpez]

forgive me... {BUMP}

[VidGuy]

The VFAPI way should work - I do that all the time to get the correct frames. You don't need to use FitCD - it's just a guide for getting the correct aspect ratio so that things don't look stretched or squashed. As long as the final result from AviSynth is 352 x 240, you should get a video that is correct (but may look squashed or stretched - that's another issue)

The only other thing I personally would try is to use virtualdub and huffyuv to dump the frames as an avi to the hard disk and use avisynth's
SegmentedAVISource("xxxx.avi&quot
to load them up and see what happens (course, I have a LOT of hard disk space).

[homerpez]

Something else I didn't think of... would it be stupid of me to use DVD2AVI... to make an AVI?...

I'm thinking so, since every frame would be 700x500 pixels big (or whatever), that'd be too much...

I'm not familliar with V-Dub... and I don't like it... but assuming I try, how would I do it?

Just use the project file as input, bicubic resize and save AVI? Or something like that?

I apologize too... these questions make me sound like a "newbie", and I guess at CCE fouling up, I AM ONE!

[Truman]

Convert the dvd2avi project with VFAPI to avi and open that in Vdub. Resize and save as segmented avi. Every segment shouldn't be larger than 2 gigs (1,9 is the default setting).
Then you can frameserve with with Vdub (just open the first segment) or with Avisynth
SegmentedAVISource("D:\full path\file.avi")

Save an avi in DVD2AVI is not usefull because DVD2AVI can not resize.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Truman on 2001-08-15 14:29:31 ]</font>

[El_Mero_Zooter]

homez, as truman mentioned dvd2avi cannot resize, but i think the last version 1.76 or so, had a reize feature, but not sure if it was for encoding to say, divx, and not necessarily for vcd/svcd creation. Or they will implemented a resize feature on future releases, hopefully.
Just load up your vfapi_filename.avi into VDub, make your changez, add filterz, add cut whatever you need, and frameserve it directly to cce. i've never really saved it segmented. might save you some hard drive space and an extra step.

ztr

[homerpez]

I think I remember DVD2AVI having a resize picture feature, but it didn't function when I tried once... I'll try V-Dub if I can sometime...

Maybe one day I'll try again with CCE, on movies over 2 hours (they look crappy on CCE, but crappier with TMPGEnc)...

I don't think that I'll need to use the Temporal Smoother thing anyway (mpeg2dec)... I tried it again with my movie that worked, and it managed to make the end result look WORSE! Hmmm...

Thanks guys, do appreciate all the help here!...