The best TMPGEnc settings for this?

[ejp]

Basically, I want to make a SVCD from this DVD Rip, and I want to know if someone has suggestions for the best settings [Best settings on TMPGEnc, of course, because thats the only tool I use for encoding to S/VCD].

I opened the AVI in VirtualDub to get the "AVI Information". This is what turned up:

- Video Stream -
Frame size, fps (us per frame): 640x352, 23.976 fps (41708u)
# of frames (time) : 163607 (1:53:43)
Decompressor : DivX MPEG-4 Low-Motion
Number of key frames : 1460
Min/avg/max/total key frame size : 1372/10245/31197 (14609K)
Min/avg/max/total delta frame size : 112/5848/89118 (926127K)

- Audio Stream -
Sampling Rate : 48000Hz
Channels : 5 (Stereo)
Sample precision : 0-bit
Compression : Unknown (tag 2000)
Preload skew : 24000 samples (0.50s)
# of frames : 162735
Min/avg/max/total frame size : 372/2002/24000 (318177K)

- Other info -
Audio Bit Rate : 384kbps
Video Data Rate : 186kbps

Oh, and the Audio source is AC3. I am using one of the other guides to help me out with that. I haven't actually done it yet, but I read that it becomes off-sync. Maybe someone has a suggestion.

OK, I think that's all the information I can get for now. If there is any other info needed, just tell me.

I just want to know what the best settings for SVCD would be for this source on TMPGEnc. As of now, I've only been using the basic settings from the guides at VCDHelp.

Thanks in advance!

[Betamax]

Frame size, fps (us per frame): 640x352

This will result in not such very good quality - you've possible some DivX (ain't you) ?
You get best results, when the source is at original size - which should be (for DVD it's always : ) 720x576 for PAL/SECAM or 720x480 for NTSC.
When you encode this size (it will be downscaled) in TMPGenc, you always get the best results. Downscaling gives better results than upscaling, which it must do for you if you're creating SVCD (480x576 for PAL/SECAM or 480x480 for NTSC).
You'll get some 'weird' result if you're creating VCD : the size for that is 352x288 (PAL/SECAM) or 352x240 for NTSC.

cu.

[ejp]

OK, thanks.

So I guess I'll be downsizing.

Anyone else have any suggestions for the rest of the TMPGEnc settings?

[banjazzer]

First of all, convert the audio to a wav using the guide on this site, and not forgetting to tick the *resample to 44100Hz* box. Load the NTSC(film) SVCD template, and then load the unlock template. Save this unlocked template and give it a name. Start the project wizard and select this new template. Select the avi and wav files. Click *next*. Click on *other settings*. In *advanced* make sure it says non-interlace, and 1:1 VGA. Alter video arrange method to Full screen (keep aspect ratio). Click on video tab, and make sure the resolution is still 480x480. Alter rate control mode to 2-pass VBR. Click on the setting button and set max. bitrate to 2496, min bitrate to 350 and average to 1000 (for now). Select the *enable padding* button. Alter motion search precision to high quality. Click on *next*. Alter media to CDR 80min(VCD/SVCD). Adjust the filesize to be ~ 195% of disk capacity and click on next. This will produce an SVCD-compliant mpg of just over 1500MB, which you will need to split. You will need a 2-disc SVCD set for a movie of length 1:53.

Bear in mind that for 50% of the time you will see nothing happening, as it is a 2-pass process. Also, provided the DivX is good quality, your SVCD will be good quality - there is nothing wrong with the resolution of the DivX.

[banjazzer]

You'll get some 'weird' result if you're creating VCD : the size for that is 352x288 (PAL/SECAM) or 352x240 for NTSC.

I don't agree with this at all. I have produced perfectly good VCD from all manner of DivX. Provided you select Source aspect ratio=1:1(VGA), Video arrange method=Full screen(keep aspect ratio) and choose the template to fit the framerate you will get excellent results, within the constraints of VCD, and presuming the DivX is not poor quality.

[Martyn1980]

Some Divx files can be great quality and most people would be over the moon if they're finished Mpeg looked as good as the avi, although i have to agree on the resolution thing, i get better results when i up the resolution to 704x480 rather that drop down to 480x480, although it depends if your player supports it, i just found out my player wont play Mpeg1 over VCD resolution, but plays Mpeg2 at 720x576 and even 640x272.

[ejp]

OK, so I was following your first post, banjazzer, since it's the first real post that I could do something with.

I went to the other guide to rip the AC3. And I got an error that a few has gotten, but no one has had a solution for. I haven't found one. It says:

Bad syncword at frame (some frame)! The AC3 stream is probably corrupted.

Maybe someone can help me out with this, or direct me to an answer.

[Martyn1980]

Try using DVD2SVCD it deals with AC3 files better than anything else i have tried, i used that to do a DIVX of Oceans Eleven which had AC3 sound and it turned out perfect

[ejp]

Alright. There are two perfectly good suggestions.

Now I need another person to second either the advice banjazzer gave, or the advice of Martyn1980.

I would use banjazzer's way, but I can't even convert the ac3 to wav. But if I could get it to work, I'll do it that way, only because it's more "hands-on". I don't know if that's the right word. I'm having a block.

The way Martyn1980 suggested seems to "easy". I wouldn't know because I haven't done it yet. I'll give it a try. And if I can't get a solution for the ac3-to-wav conversion, I'll stick to DVD2SVCD.

Please, someone second one of these advices, or add an advice of your own. Thanks.

[banjazzer]

It sounds like there is an error somewhere in the DivX which is why the normal procedure is not working. You can also try to extract the ac3 and convert to wav using Graphedit. If you've not used Graphedit before it may seem a bit off-putting, but it really is an extremely useful program to have at your disposal. It may still run aground because of the same error, though! You could try running the ac3 you have through Graphedit and convert to wav. Or you could input the avi directly and produce the wav. I don't have anything with ac3 audio to hand, so I can't tell you the exact procedure. But I have used it for this when I had problems with the standard method.

All I can suggest is you give it a go. But first, familiarise yourself with basic Graphedit procedures by checking out the guide here "OGG / OGM movies to VCD or SVCD using Graphedit" and http://nickyguides.digital-digest.com/audio-extract.htm

If I come across an avi with ac3 sound in the next few days I'll list the exact procedure.

[banjazzer]

OK, if you feel like tackling Graphedit, here is what works. There may be a simpler way - I don't know:

Open Graphedit. CTRL+R to open your avi. Delete all boxes except:-

input.avi > avi splitter > ac3 from avi xform > intervideo audio decoder > morgan stream switcher

Insert the following Direct Show filters:
wav dest and filewriter (specifying a name and directory for the output wav). Join these to the existing graph. Then *play the graph*.

Hopefully this will extract the wav for you. But it will still be 48,000Hz. So, get a copy of ssrc and copy the ssrc.exe to the same dorectory as the wav. Open a DOS box, change to the directory with the wav and type "ssrc --rate 44100 input.wav output.wav" substituting the appropriate wav names.

[Martyn1980]

Has anyone out there got a DVD player that wont play discs with 48khz sound cause ive tested my discs on 6 players now and they play fine, i know 44.1 is the standard but how many people keep to the standard, you can get players for under a 100 that will play most things.

DVD2SVCD is the easy way to do things, and it is better to learn how to do it first, but if your not sure if the sound is corrupted then this is a quick and easy way to do it, you dont want to be messing with tools you dont understand yet, when you might not even have a usable ac3 file.
The first part of DVD2SVCD extracts the audio, then converts it to an mp2 file, just do that bit then cancel the video encoding, then open the ac3 file in power dvd or something.

[ejp]

Alright, Martyn1980. It seems DVD2SVCD is really easy to use. But I'll only use it if I can't get it the other way. After all, I want to have experience with all the other tools.

As for banjazzer, I might sound like an idiot. But I got all the way to when you told me to *play the grapsh*. I played for a few minutes. What is supposed to happen? Am I supposed to save it or something? Remember, I've never used this.

Thanks.

[banjazzer]

*Play the graph* is just the program's jargon for doing the actual *extraction/conversion*. Having joined all the relevant process boxes, it should start with your source avi and terminate with the filewriter box. When you added this latter it will have prompted you for a filename and destination. *Play the graph* is started once you have everything set up by pressing the green triangle. There isn't a progress indicator as such, but when the process is complete the green triangle will change from being greyed out to green again. If this doesn't take quite a few minutes then it probably hasn't worked! 8)

BTW I'm assuming you read the install notes with Graphedit which involves running *register.bat*!

[ejp]

banjazzer, I knew I should've asked.

Sorry, but where can I get ssrc?

Oh, and yes, GraphEdit did work, thanks!

[banjazzer]

http://www.doom9.org/Soft21/Audio/ssrc-1.29.zip It's a tiny program.

[ejp]

Banjazzer, I finally got it. That link you gave me doesn't work, because I think it's a direct link to the doom9 website. I don't know.

But I still found ssrc. It's version 1.28 though. I finally got the correct output .wav. Thanks so much. Now, I'm going to go up a few posts and finally go through your first post here. Thank you SO much.

As for Martyn1980, I'll use DVD2SVCD after this. I want to compare both methods.

If anyone else has anything in mind, suggest it.

* * *

banjazzer...

Ok, I'm going through what you said. And I get to the "Other Settings". I made the alterations you suggested.

I'm guessing nothing in the other tabs, such as the "Audio" tab, would help out with the quality, so I just left it alone. I hope those are the correct default settings.

As for the "Advanced" tab, nothing in the bottom (where you check off the boxes, ex: Ghost reduction) would help the quality, either? I'm just making sure. I want the best of this movie.

In the "Video" tab, I guess I should leave the rest alone, other than the "Size", "Rate Control mode", and the "Motion search precision". Oh, and for the "Motion search precision", would it be alright if I put it to "Highest quality (very slow)"?

On the "Bitrate setting" page, I should just leave the "Average video bitrate", "Audio bitrate", and "Estimated file size" alone. I'm just making sure.

Oh, and one other thing. In a few of my previous conversions, I've used Toolame. Would toolame be beneficial in my case?

* * *

OK, thanks in advance.

[banjazzer]

Yes, I think you are right about the link. However, bookmark the site, because they have most everything you'll ever need to download!

As to the other settings, most you should leave alone unless you have the need to use them. Occasionally a DivX has not been properly cropped so you would use the clip frame filter. However, if someone doesn't crop their DivX then it is quite likely not to be the quality you would want for SVCD anyway! Occasionally I use the interlace filter, but that is not a consideration with DivX. By all means experiment with the other settings, but be aware you can easily make things worse. If the source is good you should not need much in the way of filters. Leave audio bitrate alone unless for some particular reason you are trying to reduce filesize

Putting motion search precision to highest will slow things down, and I can't say I've noticed any difference when I've used it. I did read somewhere that high gives better quality than highest with non-interlace material, but I cannot verify this. I would settle for high, and if you have time try a couple of sample test encodes to see if you notice any difference.

The average bitrate will be altered when you step through the project wizard. With what you have you will be looking to 2 CDs, so aim for the size I mentioned earlier. Other people use other settings, but these work for me. If you get totally fed up with the time taken by 2-pass VBR using TMPGEnc, you could try the CQ method - but that's a whole new story. 8) If you feel inclined to follow this up, check out http://www.svcd.cc/index.htm

By all means use Toolame. Many people think it gives improved results. I used to use it, but encountered a few probs with a particular encode, so reverted to TMPGEnc's internal routines.

[ejp]

I've bookmarked Doom9 a long time ago. It's such a good place for tools!

On second though, I don't think I'll be using any filters. The video is great as it is. After all, it WAS a DVD rip. The Audio Bitrate in the "Audio" tab is 224 kbits/sec.

As for the "Motion search precision", I agree that "Highest quality (very slow)" IS slow. But I have the time to try both "High quality" and "Highest quality".

For the "Rate control mode", I imagine "2-pass VBR(VBR)" is better than "Constant quality (CQ)". After all, "2-pass VBR(VBR)" does take longer, and I hope there are better results for all that time.

If I use Toolame, would it interfere with the AC3 source that I already have? I mean, I don't want to lose the effect AC3 offers.

Oh, and one other thing. In your first reply, you said:

"Click on the setting button and set max. bitrate to 2496, min bitrate to 350 and average to 1000 (for now)."

The "(for now)" part caught my eye. Was that supposed to change, and you forgot to mention it, or what?

Well, thank's so much for your help. But until I'm watching it in the comfort of my home, I will still be posting. Hehe, sorry. I hope you don't mind always answering my posts. Thanks!

[banjazzer]

For the "Rate control mode", I imagine "2-pass VBR(VBR)" is better than "Constant quality (CQ)". After all, "2-pass VBR(VBR)" does take longer, and I hope there are better results for all that time.

Well, let's just say each method has its adherents. 8) To see this question done to death look for the "battle of the CBR/VBR/CQ modes" topic on page 2 of Advanced Conversion.

For the audio, Toolame is only going to do what TMPGEnc will do internally - possibly better.

"Click on the setting button and set max. bitrate to 2496, min bitrate to 350 and average to 1000 (for now)."

When you step through the Project Wizard you adjust the final filesize. The average bitrate alters to accomodate your final filesize, so it really doesn't matter what you set the initial average to!

[ejp]

banjazzer...

Alright, I read the other thread, and indeed, it is too advanced for me. Hehe. I only read a few replies of it though, trying to understand it all.

So I guess I'll stick to VBR for now. But say that I want to actually test out CQ. Do you know what the best settings would be for that? If you do, that would be GREAT.

Thanks in advance.

[Los11]

Im in the same boat as you except it just rip the DVD and then convert to SVCD using TMPGenc

The Setting I use:

2-pass vbr lower limit anywhere from 1600-1900
i also change the number of IPB frames from unlimited to 20, and also click standard
i uncheck no motion search for half still picture and also check the noise softening in the matrix tab

theses setting reduced/ eliminated the little green block flashes i have noticed in past movies that i have encoded.

[banjazzer]

But say that I want to actually test out CQ. Do you know what the best settings would be for that? If you do, that would be GREAT.

Basically the same settings, except you use the CQ Rate control mode instead of 2-pass VBR. Max and min settings can remain the same. There is no average - this time you set a quality value. Personally I only use between 75 and 85, and anything within that range gives acceptable (to me) quality. Beyond 85 the quality increase will likely be hard to detect.

If you want to have bit of fun comparing, just set up the source range to select a small section of movie. Then you can do several small test encodes comparing 2-pass VBR and CQ at various quality settings. To properly evaluate these you'll need to look at the file sizes you are getting. In fact, because the size with CQ is very dependant on the nature of the source, it is quite difficult to estimate accurately the final size of the encode. So if using CQ it is usual to do 2-3 small test encodes at different quality settings (hopefully of a representative part of the movie) and with the aid of a calculator work out what the final size will be.

The main disadvantage of CQ is the unpredictable filesize. The main advantage is it takes roughly half the time to encode. 8)

Regarding the other thread, both CQ and 2-pass VBR done properly will give excellent results. Some think that TMPGEnc is optimised for CQ and that CQ is slightly better than 2-pass VBR (and the helpfile would seem to suggest this might be true). Some think the contrary. And there are some who think TMPGEnc is an inferior produce, and you should be using CCE. But that is a whole new adventure.

[banjazzer]

By the way, if you do produce some mpg samples, it's best when playing on a PC to use something like PowerDVD or WinDVD. When I produced my first SVCD mpg I was convinced it would be way out of sync because I was trying to play it with Mediaplayer and Zoom! In fact the sync was perfect when played with PowerDVD and burned to SVCD.

[ejp]

OK, thanks Los11 for your suggestion. I'll try it last after I try Martyn1980's DVD2SVCD suggestion.

As for banjazzer, I'll also keep that in mind when I try encoding it with CQ. I think I'll encode it tonight.

But I have another question in mind. I've posted it in another section of the Message Board, under Editing. It has to do with subtitles. I know this isn't the right place to this topic, but maybe you know how to deal with it, banjazzer. I'm putting it hear because it still has to do wtih the same movie.

The movie is a foreign movie. There have been DVD Rips (Non-AC3) that has the subtitles. Mine doesn't. But the thing is, the subtitles were right ON top of the "picture". I want to put these subitles on the bottom black bar. But when you view my video in VirtualDub, you don't see these black bars.

Now, I want to know if it was possible to somehow add these black bars, and still get the same results as my primary topic. In my other post in the other part of the message board, the only suggestion I got was:

"By the time you have added boarders, resized it might be better just to add them on top of the movie, as any alteration to the original movie will make it smaller anyway."

So maybe you, banjazzer, has some experience with this, and maybe you have a suggestion. If anyone has a suggestion, please post. Sorry if I just made things more complicated.

Thanks in advance.

[banjazzer]

If you start with the DVD you can put the subtitles wherever you like. If you have the DivX, and the subtitles separate, you can still put the subtitles wherever you like.

The only problem is when the subtitles have already been added, or if you don't have the subtitles. Then you can do nothing useful to change things. 8)

[ejp]

banjazzer...

I have a seperate DivX (the DVD Rip with the AC3 that we've been talking about), and I got the seperate subtitles from a website.

And I am using the subtitles guide found here:

http://forum.vcdhelp.com/userguides/87065.php#5

I am multiplexing the video and the subtitles together. When I view that multiplexed video (now with the subtitles), the subtitles end up being right on the picture.

What I wanted is for those subtitles to be in the bottom black bar, which does not exist. I'm wondering if there is a way to "create" those black bars so that I can place these subtitles there.

Sorry if my scenerio wasn't clear.

[banjazzer]

I'm the wrong person to ask about subtitles! I've only just got to grips with Vobsub, but I think with Vobsub you can put the subtitles wherever you want. I have no experience with other subtitle formats, and don't really know a great deal about Vobsub. 8)

[ejp]

banjazzer...

Oh, thank you SO much. You've been SO much help. I really don't know how to repay you. I haven't yet tried it out because I want to deal with the subtitles.

I really don't want to make a new topic just for the subtitles since it's for the same movie. So if anyone has any suggestions for it, then please suggest.

I have a 640x352 movie with no black bars. I want to put subtitles in the bottom black bar that isn't even there. Does anyone have a clue about how I would somehow re-encode the video to have those black bars? I would imagine you'd only put enough to fit my 4:3 television. But how much, exactly, is that (I've noted the dimensions of the movie). And if I did change the size of the picture, would this change ANY settings at all, banjazzer?

Alright, please help me. I don't want to actually make another topic about this since it's dealing with the same movie.

Thanks in advance.

[ejp]

OK, suddenly I got an idea out of nowhere.

1. What if I just encode the video source, itself, so that it ends up being 4:3 WITH the black bars.

2. And then use the subtitle guide to multiplex the MPEG with the subtitles.

3. And then you would multiplex the video with the audio source using TMPGEnc.

I wouldn't want to encode the video AND the audio source together in the 1st step because the subtitles might interfere with the audio source. I really don't know. Maybe someone has an idea about that. Maybe someone can prove this idea wrong. But if the subtitles WON'T interferre with the audio, then I will use the way banjazzer suggested in his first reply here. And once again, if I did it this way above, should I change the settings in ANY way?

Thanks in advance.