DVD Workshop vs. Factory - Time to Burn

[deb]

Hi,

I have been using DVD Workshop and DVD Factory during the 30 day trial periods. I started with Factory, which is easy and fairly fast. I imported the TMPGENC mpg file and made some simple menus and the process, once I started making the CD, took less than an hour.

Last night I tried Workshop because of the extra menu features. I used the same MPG made by TMPGenc and made a two page menu - it took several hours to burn - I'm not sure how much longer than that as I went to bed after a couple hours at only 70%. It seemed to be stuck on step 1 - the video title - but the line was moving ahead. For all I know, it may have taken longer for the additional steps.

Question - Why the time difference? Does Workshop do anything in burning that Factory does not? Is the result worth the extra time? I personally could not see a difference.

Thanks for any input,
Deb

[jim s]

I had this same problem. It has to do with the mpeg2 file not being complaint with DVD workshop. But DVD workshop doesn’t tell you what a complaint file is. I used TMPGENC to compress it with the default settings and its seems to work now for me.

[deb]

Thanks for the reply, Jim.

I did change the TPMGenc settings, but I thought it was suposed to be higher quality output with the changes I made.

I wonder if it would be better to burn the better TPMGenc file with Factory than to use Workshop with the defaults - what do you think? Does workshop do anything else in the burn - other than the improved menus?

Deb

[jim s]

When it works right for me it will speed thought with first 5 steps. Then its takes a little while. When it takes a long time on step 1 it seem to me to be recompressing the file too an mpeg format it likes.

[deb]

Yes, that's how DVD Factory works for me. I'm just confused why the same file would be OK for Factory and not for Workshop.

Thanks for the feedback!

Deb

[Robert Simandl]

I've found that when you're making your DVD from MPEG files with a constant bit rate, and you select a constant bit rate for your disc at burning time which is higher than the bit rate of the files you're putting on the disc, it will leave the files alone, encode them as-is, and fly through that first "converting video" step.

If you choose a constant bit rate LOWER than the bit rates of the files of your project, it will re-encode the video before buring, making that "converting video" step take forever and a day.

Also, if you choose a VARIABLE bit rate for burning, it will re-encode.

By the way, this re-encoding of the video raises my CPU temp 15 degrees!

So if your original files are CBR, choose a CBR for burning higher than the CBR of your files.

[deb]

Hi Robert,

Does the re-encoding do anything negative to the MPEG - does it decrease the quality any?

I wonder about the encoding process anyway. I found a set up for TMPGEnc that uses the 2pass variable that uses the highest and slowest setting for everything. A 2 hour movie takes about 30 hours. I'd like to find some settings to try with less time involved, if it wouldn't reduce quality.

Have you ever used Workshop for encoding? How do you like workshop overall? I'm at the end of the 30 day trial for Factory and Workshop. Workshop is harder to figure out - but has some advantages. Factory wouldn't even recognize a 16 x 9 mpeg, flexibility with the menus, etc.

Just curious - how do you know the temp of your CPU?

Thanks,
Deb

[Gary]

You will lose quality if you allow WS to re-encode a TMPGEnc file in my opinion. I always encode in TMPGENc and import this file and do not allow re-encoding in order to get the best quality. Also, I always encode in VBR in order to get the best quality in the smallest file sizes and it does not re-encode. If you do not know the nominal bitrate of your VBR files use Bitrate Viewer to get that. Then, just make sure that you use that bitrate in your settings in DVDWS in order to avoid the re-encoding. (It would be nice if there was just a "No not encode" checkbox!!)

Gary

[Robert Simandl]

Hi Robert,

Does the re-encoding do anything negative to the MPEG - does it decrease the quality any?

I wonder about the encoding process anyway. I found a set up for TMPGEnc that uses the 2pass variable that uses the highest and slowest setting for everything. A 2 hour movie takes about 30 hours. I'd like to find some settings to try with less time involved, if it wouldn't reduce quality.

Have you ever used Workshop for encoding? How do you like workshop overall? I'm at the end of the 30 day trial for Factory and Workshop. Workshop is harder to figure out - but has some advantages. Factory wouldn't even recognize a 16 x 9 mpeg, flexibility with the menus, etc.

Just curious - how do you know the temp of your CPU?

Thanks,
Deb

Well, in my case re-encoding did lower the quality since the re-encoding was to a lower bitrate than the original files had. I've since made it my own policy to make all my DVD's CBR at high bit rates. No more re-encoding! And since the original files from my ReplayTV are CBR in the first place, I'm not losing anything by not doing VBR.

I'm just starting to use tmpgenc myself, to take MST3K episode AVI's from the net and make MPEG2 files out of them for DVD-R burning. DVD Workshop can't seem to convert from AVI to MPEG2. Tmpgenc takes 8-10 hours for a 92 minute MST3K episode. That seems ridiculous to me, but DVD Workshop can't do it at all, so I guess I shouldn't complain <G>.

That said, I went ahead and paid the $279 for DVD Workshop. It's the best as far as making DVD's of programs from my ReplayTV (and cutting the commercials out during the edit process).

Just wish some of its quirks, such as the not having to re-encode CBR if you specify a bitrate higher than the original, etc, were better documented.

I can look at the CPU temp with a utility called SiSoft Sandra. Lets me access the CPU temp from the BIOS anytime while Windows is running. Helped me diagnose my blue screens of death a few months back were due to CPU overheating. A more powerful fan/heatsink solved the problem.

[Anonymous65]

Check out the specs of the "legal" mpeg files that each program will allow. It's amazing how big a difference there is between DVD softwares. Renecoding a file before burning is a big waste of time, and drops the quality a lot. Also, programs that only allow PCM audio is wasting space on the DVD.

Ulead DVD Moviefactory is my favorite, it will take almost any mpeg-2 file. Menu creation is simple (I do not put any menu's on my DVD's).

[ahfairley]

You will lose quality if you allow WS to re-encode a TMPGEnc file in my opinion. I always encode in TMPGENc and import this file and do not allow re-encoding in order to get the best quality.

Gary, what's the downside to letting DVD-WS encode the orignal AVI file (which I would have exported from Premiere after editing) instead of first encoding the AVI with TPMGenc and then importing into DVD-WS as you appear to do?

Thx,

Alan

[Cooly-O]

(I do not put any menu's on my DVD's).

Why don't you put menu's on your DVD's? Is there any limitations??

Gary, what's the downside to letting DVD-WS encode the orignal AVI file (which I would have exported from Premiere after editing) instead of first encoding the AVI with TPMGenc and then importing into DVD-WS as you appear to do?
Alan

Probably 'cause he wants to use TPMGenc which is a better encoder, then just add menues (and burn) with DVD-WS.

[jim s]

I thought I finally got DVD Workshop working for me. But now when a burn a DVD my audio is out of sync. Here is what I do.
Capture in adobe premiere with DV firewire. Encode with TMPGEnc 2 pass VBR. And author in DVD Workshop. I choose other in the “make disc” menu and click custom VBR 8000 bits to avoid re encoding. This seems to all work but when I play the DVD-R the audio is off by a second.

Please help.
starbuck@gate.net

[Lamont Cranston]

Ulead has posted an update to DVDWS at http://www.ulead.com/tech/dws/dws_ftp.htm which includes a box to check on the burn page "do not convert compliant file". You no longer have to pick the right template. The patch also offers Linear PCM (LPCM) and posts a warning if you choose mpeg 1 layer 2 that you are creating a non standard audio type for NTSC DVD. IMHO you get marginally better audio quality than mpeg 1 layer 2 at the expense of video data rate and disk space. I have not had a chance to look at much but Ulead still assumes all captured video is b field first (Ulead definition a field first) and offers no option for selecting the field order. Ulead also updated the mpeg encoder in MSP6.5 to their MPEG Now but it appears to be a different version. Remember patches do not work on trial versions.

[jim s]

I downloaded the CD/DVD Burn Patch. And installed it to hopefully help my audio sync problem. And now when I try to burn the same project it starts to encode it. I don?t understand why if the times before it skipped that part and just when to the burning process. I?m using the same settings and the same mpeg2 file.

[Lamont Cranston]

I downloaded the CD/DVD Burn Patch. And installed it to hopefully help my audio sync problem. And now when I try to burn the same project it starts to encode it. I don?t understand why if the times before it skipped that part and just when to the burning process. I?m using the same settings and the same mpeg2 file.

Did you check "Do not convert compliant file" box just below the center of the Make Disk (burn) page?

[Gary]

[quote="Cooly-O
Probably 'cause he wants to use TPMGenc which is a better encoder, then just add menues (and burn) with DVD-WS.[/quote]

Exactly. I can specify a real nice 2 pass at the bitrate settings that I want, take audio encoded with toolame, and get much better end results than using the DVDWS encoder. Actually, I just use DVDWS to create the menu system and the VOB disk structure. I then burn with Prassi.

[Robert Simandl]

Gary, what's the downside to letting DVD-WS encode the orignal AVI file (which I would have exported from Premiere after editing) instead of first encoding the AVI with TPMGenc and then importing into DVD-WS as you appear to do?

Well, I've tried to do a few DVD's of MST3K AVI's I downloaded from Kazaa, and DVD Workshop just plain wouldn't do it. Gave me "unable to convert video file" error messages. Apparently DVDWS can convert AVI to MPEG1 but not to MPEG2.

So now I've got TMPGenc converting them instead...

[Lamont Cranston]

DVDWS with the latest patch accepts VCD (mpeg 1) files on DVD without rerendering.