CVD - your trials and tribulations!

[merkin]

Hi,

After the shenanigans of the last CVD post, I would like to start a post where everyone can tell us about their stories with creating CVDs. It can also be a place for people to find help on the matter if they are just starting out. I don't want anymore arguing about SVHS and s-video, most of us are too noobisious to know what you are talking about!! If it benefits the discussion then go ahead, but no arguing this time. So lets just hear a) what settings you use and b) are you pleased with the results? Also, any other tips would be great.

Ok, I'm attempting to archive all my families home videos (on a hi-8 camcorder) to CVD. My main settings are:

Capture the video using Virtual VCR:

Use s-video input
res: 352 x 576
MJPEG codec on quality setting: 18

Encode the video using TMPGenc:

In 'Video':

res: 352 x 576
2-Pass VBR (2520 max, 2520 avg, 1300 min)
DC component precision: 10
Motion search precision: Highest quality (very slow)

In 'Quantize Matrix':

Output YUV data as basic YCbCr: ON
Use floating point DCT: ON
No motion search for still picture: OFF

In Audio:
44k, stereo, 224kbps

Burn the CVD in Nero:

Select the SVCD wizard, and then you don't really need to change anything, just choose to turn compliance off and not let it re-encode!!

So they you go - I have only listed the options which I think are most important. Of course all the other things like interlace, aspect ratio, frame rate etc. are important but they are more of less 'set' values so you all know them. I don't change anything in GOP Structure or System, I use Advanced just to perhaps change the source range or fix some audio sync problems, but nothing else. I find these settings give excellent results. It takes absolutely AGES to finish encoding but I just leave it on overnight and let it do it's stuff whilst I'm catching some sleep I would say it is very similar quality to just watching the camcorder itself but there is some blokiness if there is fast motion in the home video (ooo err missus ). With CBR 2520, this blockiness seemed to be enhanced a bit as well, so I'm going to try some more with VBR and see if it's that much better. The 'Quantize Matrix' settings and the DC component settings were recommended to me on a different website. I haven't seen them mentioned on here much but apparently the options above give the best quality. I haven't tried without so I can't compare though...

So what do you use?

Merkin

[bartman]

I thought I'd give CVD a try based on the fact that it is DVD compliant video and I'll probably be buying a DVD burner in the future.

To test I tried video from two sources.

The first was a divx of the Hulk trailer. The input video was 4:3 crappy res at 20fps. I used this mainly because it is a short clip ( 1:30 ) and I wanted to test upping the framerate to 25fps. The second test was a short DVD rip to test what was the best quality I could expect from CVD. In both tests I modified the standard SVCD template from TMPGenc to suit the resolution of the CVD standard and changed it to 2-pass. I also tested audio at both 44100 and 48000.

The first test came out OK....that is to say it is watchable but going from the lower resolution divx didn't help...it was more watchable in divx format.....you know what they say though...crap in...crap out.

In the second test......I couldn't tell the difference from the regular SVCD's I've been creating from DV or DVD capture....not on my 52cm TV or on my monitor ( 17" fullscreen using PowerDVD 4)

The audio worked fine on my standalone DVD player ( Philips 570M ) in both 44100 and 48000.

To burn my CVD's I used Nero's SVCD template and turned off the compliance warning.

All up though, I'm impressed and will be using CVD from now on. I'll have to do one more test though...and that is to get one of my current SVCD's and re-encode it to CVD to see what the quality is like.

[Poplar]

@merkin
Very well done. But there might be ways you can improve the quality a little bit.
1. Capture with lossless Huffyuv or uncompressed instead of MotionJPEG.
2. Encode your CVD with CCE instead of TMPG. CCE is the best and fatest when it comes to mpeg2.

[energy80s]

Only problems with CCE are that it costs $4000 (unless you get a pirate copy) and is difficult to use (well, I've never gotten it to work right!)

[Martyn1980]

Ive recently tried CVD and i am impressed with it to a certain extent, theres a lot less blockiness than if i encode to 704x576 which is my usual resolution and if blocks bother you then use CVD, its also quicker to encode as well, which is a nice bonus, although you can see the difference on the sharpness, on any writing and especially on the end credits, but who bothers about that really.

CCE is only $2000, but thats still a crazy price, all im gonna say is Kazaa, CCE2.50SP, Tsunami CCE patcher.

[onerag9]

So here's an idea i had...

Say i have this DVD that i've ripped. This DVD is larger than 4.5GB, so it'll need to be split to 2 DVD-R's. That sucks.
Now - CVD produces DVD-compliant video streams. Would it be possible to use CVD to convert my video stream into a smaller (MUCH smaller) fiolesize, then replace the original video stream with the smaller CVD stream, and burn as a DVD-R?
I'm thinking like this - convert to CVD using the guide. Then, drop your streams into SpruceUp (or another DVD authoring program) and save the VIDEO_TS folder. This should write the streams as VOB files. Move the VOB files into the VIDEO_TS folder of your ripped DVD, and rename the VOBs to reflect the names of the original VOBs which contained the original video stream. Then make some changes with IfoEdit, and burn that sucker!
It'd be nice if this worked, as this process is a lot faster than transcoding the video stream with ReMPEG or TMPGEnc.
Has anyone tried this? I'm going to make an attempt this evening, and i'll post my results, but if anyone already has experience i'd like to hear about it.

[Arwen Goenitz]

I dont know about this CVD thing but ive come up with a nifty little method of my own.
I have only tested it on my Pioneer DV344 DVD player and have had 100% success.

1 - Capture the source AVI in Virtual Dub, the VID is 352x288x24 @25fps with 44100 16 Stereo PCM sound.
I use DivX 5.02 to compress the VID on the fly as I dont have much HD space.
I use PCM audio as no audio compressor works in Virtual Dub when im compressing on the fly and my CPU is straining enough as it is.

2 - Open the AVI in Tsunami MPEG Encoder PLUS and use my SVCD profile at http://www.geocities.com/arwengoenitz/files/tmpgplusprofiles.zip and set the start and end of the VID, use maximum noise reduction at 1 pixel range and high quality.

3 - Burn the files to disc with Nero 5, the bitrate should be user defined at the drive speed you encoded at.
150 for 1X
300 for 2X

I figured it was worth a shot and if it screwed up I had only wasted a CD.
Its a VCD but using MPEG2 instead of 1...and when both are producing 352x288 VID...which can cope better?

I usually just drop a bunch of MPG files to a data CD where the size, quality and composition are user variable rather than letting the ISO run your show.
Sure you have to watch it on the PC but its a lot simpler.

[baker]

Anybody using my guide can post here too.

Baker

[petec]

I am using methods and settings as above except that I am using
a canopus ADVC-100 and DVRaptor. I like the fact of being able to keep
my 48,000 sound inside of bringing it down to 44,100. Comparing between the SVCD's and CVD's quaility is similar watching on a 60" Wide Screen Pioneer. I am currently using DTV / SVideo out for my captures.
Running on a P4 1.8 MHz 512Meg 120/120 gig machine I call my multimedia box. Using TMPGenc to convert from DV to MPEG. I use slow but not slowest settings. Using both WinONCD 3.8 and Nero 5.5 for SVCD and now just Nero for CVD. WinONCD doesn't recognize format and I know of no way to force the image creation.

[rcbax]

Thanks for the Tip
I use DVCII, which encodes directly to Mpeg-2 so I no longer use the encoding processes.

I just changed the setting to 352x480 2400 VBR, and 48 for sound, and it plays perfect in both my Philips 711 and Apex AD1500.

Now I can easily get 60 minutes onto a 700M CDR.

I am converting all of my family video goign forward in this new format. It's also great to archieve those fantastic PBS 1 hour educational shows, like Nova, National Geographic, etc onto one CDR per show.

[shadowrunner]

Maybe you guys can help me. I ve been trying to convert my home videos taken on a sony tvr740 captured via firewire using uleads product.
tapes are all 60 minutes max original capture file is 11.3 gig. After several attempts using tmpenc the smallest I could get the file is 796mb. (to big for nero to burn on 80min/700mb cdr) as we speak I'm trying again using 2 pass vb 1550 avg. I'm hoping this will do it. Can any help me out with some settings to get 60 min full res ntsc dv captured home video to 1 cdr.

I love the increased quality but can't get the size down, also cant get dv files to be recognized by CCE. any help there would also be appreciated!

Thanx
shadowrunner

[adam]

shadowrunner read the guides.

If you are using multipass vbr than you can calculate the resulting filesize almost exactly. Download a bitrate calculator in the tools section. It will tell you what bitrate to use to fit x amount of movie time onto x amount of cdrs.

796MB's should still be able to fit on an 80 min cdr, thought it might require a little bit of overburning. In Nero there should be a tab that lets you select how much total time Nero will burn. Set it higher.

[merkin]

Maybe you guys can help me. I ve been trying to convert my home videos taken on a sony tvr740 captured via firewire using uleads product.
tapes are all 60 minutes max original capture file is 11.3 gig. After several attempts using tmpenc the smallest I could get the file is 796mb. (to big for nero to burn on 80min/700mb cdr) as we speak I'm trying again using 2 pass vb 1550 avg. I'm hoping this will do it. Can any help me out with some settings to get 60 min full res ntsc dv captured home video to 1 cdr.

I love the increased quality but can't get the size down, also cant get dv files to be recognized by CCE. any help there would also be appreciated!

Thanx
shadowrunner

VBR 1550 should have done the trick, how did you get on? In theory, an 80min cd-r should be able to handle a 60min vid encoded at CBR 1580 with 224kbps sound. Nudge that down a little just to be safe and give that a go, it should be fine.

[shadowrunner]

Thanx for the quick replies!

I'll just wait the 34 hours till encode is done. That high quality noise reduction setting is a b*tch. I tried using svcdcalc and it gave me a bitrait of 1791 this gave me the 796mb file. nero said to large to fit on cd. My hp9300 doesnt support overburn at all (this is my backup burner) my acer burned out last weak and she did support overburn. I want to get new Liteon but wife is bitching a fit

P.S. Fitcd gave me a bitrate of 1784.... which would result in same file size.

Thanx again!

shadowrunner

[TeeeRex]

CVD experience....

Quality looks good - used KVCD 1/2 DVD template and modified it as Kwag suggested. Plays fine on PC.

Only problem I have is that Nero won't burn the 800Mbyte file to CDR - says that it won't fit. A normal 800 Mbyte VCD/XVCD/SVCD or XSVCD encoded MPEG's fits fine so I know it's not by burner or anything like that.

Why would a CDR encoded MPG make any difference to the file size ? - or is Nero the problem ? or have I lost the plot ?



TeeeRex

[merkin]

@merkin
Very well done. But there might be ways you can improve the quality a little bit.
1. Capture with lossless Huffyuv or uncompressed instead of MotionJPEG.
2. Encode your CVD with CCE instead of TMPG. CCE is the best and fatest when it comes to mpeg2.

Hi Poplar,

Sorry I only just now spotted your post!! Thanks for the advice, I'm am going to try with Huffyuv or even uncompressed like you say - the problem is I partitioned my 40gb hard drive into 2 x 20gb (or there abouts). I make it that 20mins uncompressed avi should be around 12gb, so hopefully I should be ok as that is generally how long each 'session' is... anymore though and I'm struggling. Still, it doesn't hurt to try . I have just downloaded the trial for CCE, haven't installed it yet but will give it a go and see how I get on - apparently it is pretty damn complicated!!

Merkin

[energy80s]

The maximum file size that I can get Nero to burn (without overburning) is 795Mb, if your file is 796 I would think that it would burn OK if you set Nero to overburn by about 2 minutes.

[Martyn1980]

I used to have this problem a lot, and im sure the fault is with Tmpeg and Nero, after i encoded the video i would check the filesize and it would say 790mb or whatever, so i would add it to a Nero SVCD or VCD list but nero would say the file was too large, the red bar would shoot past 80mins usually up to 90mins, like it was burning in Mode1 and not 2.

I then deleted it and added it again and it was just under, so at first i blamed Nero, but since ive started using CCE if it says anything up to 799mb then it will go on a disc no problems and no overburning, im sure its something to do with the header name, if its a VCD try multiplexing the Mpeg with a Mpeg-1 Video CD, Non standard header, and if its a SVCD then use a Mpeg 2 Super VCD VBR header NOT a Mpeg 2 Program header

This used to work for me, as i used to go crazy and end up re encoding the thing, hope this helps but if it doesn't the easiest and quickest thing i can think of, is demuliplex the audio and reencode the audio at a lower bitrate and Muliplex the new soundtrack, its easier and quicker than re encoding the video.

[TeeeRex]

martyn1980,energy80s,

Thanks for your suggestions - I'll give them a go and hopefully I'll sqeeze it on ....

Cheers,

[macleod]

I had read the guide for CVD and basically just stole the screen resolution for NTSC (352x480).

I had previously been doing TV captures using SVCD format with my ATI TV Wonder card and powervcrII (captures native MPEG2 480x480 with tweeks).

The results of the SVCD were good, but during fast motion and other things, I could see pixelation. I couldn't tell if I could see it because I was doing a test and focusing my attention on it (I wouldn't be able to tell if I just threw it into the dvd player and watched it). Anyway, I had been happy with those captures.

I then tried the 352x480 format at 2600'ish Bit rate on a capture. I could not believe it!!!!! It was a FANTASTIC capture. It looked better than TV(yes, I know that is a technical impossibility). This was without reencoding or anything. This was capturing using powervcrII 3.0, editing out the commercials and then burning to CD using nero (turning off standard compliance).

Thank you for coming out with the guide for this. I have finally achieved what I had been trying get to for quite awhile!

[threev]

I have given the CVD a try just recently. Definitely sharper image than vcd's and svcd's I have been making but the motion seems a little less pleasing. I notice from browsing around that there are 3 possible remedies: increase the bitrate, use some amount of noise reduction, or fiddle with the edge sharpness.

If anyone can offer me some advise on the best and simplist answer, I would really appreciate it. Otherwise, I could be spending literally hours to test what ends up looking best.

By the way , isn't there an upper limit to the bitrate that you can go up to on an apex 660?

Threev

[Martyn1980]

Are you sure your using CVD, how can 352 x 480/576 be sharper than 480 x480/576, SVCD is sharper and CVD has less blocks in high motion scenes because theres more bitrate per pixel, not more.

[macleod]

from what I read about it (and this actually makes sense to me), is that:

480 x 480, you are speading 2600 bit rate over 230,400 pixels and with 352 x 480, you are spreading 2600 bit rate over 168,690 pixels (yes, I used a calculator) or more coverage per pixel. From what I read (and this appears to be true) is that the horizontal (or vertical, cant remember) don't matter, its the other one (hows that for confusing). The "one" important one is what give the picture its clarity.

Might be a loud a crap, but I can see Star Trek TNG and my VHS rips perfectly so I am not going to wonder why. Who knows, it could be the whole set up. I really don't know, but the quality, in my opinion, blows SVCD away. Its the one I personally will be sticking with (until another post comes out showing a better way to do it).

[Faceman101]

I tried using DVD2SVCD's CVD setting with a high action scene from A Better Tomorrow II (if anyone knows this movie, the ending is insane). The quality of the encode seemed fine, the action showed no blockiness, only complaint was that I noticed a downgrade in colour and played slightly jerky. I still need to do further testing with this CVD.

[xtc]

I gave the CVD format a try because I was looking for a sharper picture and better sound. To my supprise I found both.
I used the standard settings I found on an earlier post (2520 CBR 352x480 res 48k audio etc..)

Worked fine on my computer but the problem came with my stand alone player...a Sony DVP-NS400D, So after some searching I did the Simple-Multiplex tried the Merge & Cut and the De-multiplex mutiplex(Mpeg-2 vbr) re-mutiplex(mpeg-1 non-standard) methods. Each method allowed me to watch on my stand -alone and the picture and sound was outstanding...but the video was out of sync on each method I tried. Of course after you take the header off the mpg file is not playable on the computer but the disk is.

After all is said and done I am at a loss as what to do. By taking the header off I guess I have defeated the purpose of making it DVD compatable for the future and from my test it appears it is my player that is the problem.......I guess a solution would be go and buy a cheap Apex, short of that any ideas?

[pinkfloyd6]

well i rip my dvd's to a res of 720-480 using the mpeg 4 low motion codec then convert to cvd format and i have to say htis is by far the best rip i have ever had cvd kisck ass and i will be using it all the time now but the only prob is my avi's i make when i do the rip r like the same size as the orriginaly vob files but i dont mind i just get better rips that way i guess

[energy80s]

Glad to see a few more satisfied customers!

[baker]

I have created a BETA Q calculator for my guide!!! A short test has proved that it may actually work!!! I am looking for ppl to test it out for me as I need to know what tweaks I need for v1.0. Remember it will only work with my CVD guide. Post any probs you have here.

Don't know if html will work here but here goes:


didn't work, N E dieas on how toi get it to work?

It in java script.

Baker

[troyvcd1]

I got a pioneer 440 dvd player. when I make a cvd using tmpeng my video is only displayed at about 1/4 screen size on the left side in the middle of the tv screen. my source is avi from my camcorder 740x480. I used the 352x480 standard in tmpeng to create my cvd. Any suggestions?????????

[shadowrunner]

Well I've tried and tried and no software will burn cvd. I have an mpeg2 file made with tmpgenc 352 x 480 29.97fps 128kbps audio 1750 avrage kbps 56min 20sec long. file size iz 764mb. nero, vcdeasy and vcdimager all give me warnings that files will not fit on cd! I have burnt larger files in the past but cvd just will not burn! If I have to keep file size well bellow 700mb, than the loss of quality will hardly worth the trouble! Someone please help me out I am at my wits end! nero shows movie at 87 minutes long!

In dire need of help!
shadowrunner