DV camcorders: Sweetspot???: palatable price/features

[Cooly-O]

Okay its June 28, 2002. What is the "Sweetspot" for DV camcorders. Where sweetspot means you can get a decent DV camcorder for the price.

It should be able to do "analog to digital pass though". I don't want to deal with my analog camcorder anymore to minimize the dropped frames and file size on captures. A great post on such concerns is on the below thread:

"The quest for perfect capturing and my conquest"
http://forum.vcdhelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=78687&highlight=analog

Any weblinks that would be a good source of such DV cam price conscience reviews would be cool.

[holistic]

Reviews .... !!!

Get a Canon ZR40 . I got one a few months ago and am so far please with its' performance.

It has A/D pass through and is reasonably priced for a miniDV.


Negatives :
1. bad design for the pass through, cables plugging in from all directions . (not a major deal since camera just sits on table beside the monitor)
2. few effects . this is a non issue because i do all my effects on the computer prior to encoding to mpeg2


Put it on your list to 'test drive'

][

[yg1968]

The Sony TRV25 also has a pass through (which can defeat macrovision).

[Cooly-O]

Reviews .... !!!

Get a Canon ZR40 . I got one a few months ago and am so far please with its' performance.

It has A/D pass through and is reasonably priced for a miniDV.
][

Wow, thanks. Looks like some good prices online:

$388.00 (shipping: $19.95)
http://www.pricescan.com/digiphoto/items/item512037.asp?sid=46860099
or: http://digitaldealz.com/shop/Product.asp?ProductCode=ZR40

Any recommendations on accessories (e.g. good prices on extra batteries)???

[Cooly-O]

Wow, thanks. Looks like some good prices online:

$388.00 (shipping: $19.95)
http://www.pricescan.com/digiphoto/items/item512037.asp?sid=46860099
or: http://digitaldealz.com/shop/Product.asp?ProductCode=ZR40

Any recommendations on accessories (e.g. good prices on extra batteries)???

That price was so good ("on special") I had to buy it right away to assure I got the price/availibility. This price is a steal. Just what I was looking for. I like the camera. Thanks much!!!

[holistic]

Hope it works as well for you as it does for me.

Recommend an extra battery if you plan on using it for other than A/D conversions .. i.e taping
Do the A/D with the charger !

$400 damm ... you stole it off them.......

][

[Cooly-O]

$400 damm ... you stole it off them.......

][

Let me slow down here. I found out (a call from their verification department) that it doesn't come with a battery, charger, and they mentioned memory??? & software????.

What does come with the camera? Does it need memory for stills?? Is there software that is needed??

I don't think it even comes with memory or software, does it???

I canceled the order until I can figure this out.

[jtor]

Canon models with a suffix of MC uses a memory cartridge for stills. If the model name doesn't have MC, then it saves stills on tape.

I'm not so sure about the software. My Canon (GL1) uses tape for stills, and didn't come with any type of software. My guess is the ZR40 doesn't. But a typical kit should have the battery, charger, remote (if applicable), S-video cable and RCA cables. You might want to check canondv.com for the specific contents.

hope this helps.

[Cooly-O]

I called Canon to get a better feel for what accessories I would be missing with this minimal accessory purchase. I won't be getting the software (only drivers that are an easy download) and:

-batteries (I like good batteries so I don't mind shopping for the best battery at the best price).
-I don't think, this purchace, comes with an ac/dc adaptor (oh well, one more thing to put in the order).
-Usb cable (for stills; I have an extra)
-8mb compact flash (for stills: i already have a spare from my digital camera which i upgraded to 256mb).
-some wireless controler (i view this as unecessary [surely not worth a couple hundred dollars extra]).

My order does come with the lens protector and strap and of course the camera.

So, as you can tell, I re-established the order and it got today's lower price of $378 ($10 bucks cheaper).

This didn't work out that bad 'cause I'm not spending $ on the stuff I don't really need and am getting the most competive price. My recommendation is not to buy accessories through same place as camera since they usually try to make back there money on the accessories (search and you will find better).

[ahfairley]

I think this DVcam takes the same battery and charger as the G2 still digicam. Those two items will set you back about $100. Personally, I wouldn't buy from a place that strips items out of the full kit. I would suspect they have real crappy customer service & return/exchange policies. I'd double check that stuff, if I were you, also check ratings on resellerrating.com or similar web site.

Good luck, anyway. That's the one I'm planning to get, seems cheaper than comparable Sony and the fact that it won't pass through protected stuff isn't an issue

Alan

[mbellot]

Cooly-O:

I own the ZR40 and am confused by some of the accessories suggested by Canon.

USB cable: not needed with the ZR40, only th ZR45MC and 50MC. Note the MC, it means MMC/SD photo card, the pics from the MMC card are downloaded via USB.

Compact flash?!? The 45 and 50 use MMC, the 40 only records to tape. This seems completely screwy. The photo mode is basically junk anyway, if you have a 1MP still camera you will get better pictures from it.

On the other hand, the wireless controller is *required* for A/D pass-thru conversion.

Maybe you should download the manual from Canon to get a better feel for what accessories are really needed.

I would tend to agree with ahfairley, don't buy just a camera. The kit includes all of the following:
Camera (duh)
smallest Li-ion battery Canon makes (about 1 hr record time)
AC charger (plugs into camera to charge attached battery)
Wireless controller + batteries
A/V cables for input/output (same cable) for *composite* video only. If you want to do S-Video you need to buy a cable.

All this for $599 retail (CompUSA, WorstBuy, etc). I actually got mine from WorstBuy for $549 when they advertised "All camcorders on sale" but had only marked down some of them (scumbags, huh?). So I made them knock 10% off the price

One item I would suggest is a UV filter, it protects the actual lens and helps make the picture clearer. They can be had for anywhere from $10 up to about $75 depending on how badly you want to get screwed.

Only other thing is tapes, the camera kit doesn't come with one

The A/D works great, although I have only done to tape, not passthru (I wanted permanent copies). I then imported from tape to my PC.

One other thing. If you don't have a Firewire card yet go to CompUSA. They have a totally stripped model for $30, all it includes is a cheapo version of Ulead Video Studio. It works just great, and drivers are built in to Win2K.

Best of luck.

Mark

[vhelp]

cooly-o,

No affence, no affence, but domb! just plain domb! domb ass!

If I were you, and if that's truely a steel as others have suggested,
you better call and re-order that camera!

Who cares about the lack of batter/memory, etc. etc.

That's how I got my Canon ZR-10! ! !
For $200, but w/out a: battery/memory/ etc. All I got mine w/ was
a power supply, damaged strap hinge and no cover for the battery.
But who cares! I got my mini TIVO going on here. My unit was in
pretty bad shape when I first laid hands on it. ie, the viewscreen
was damaged also, but it would blank out or display squggly lines
whenever you turned the swivel window a certain way. I said to myself
who cares! 99% of the time, this doesn't happen!! And 110% of the
time, the unit give a flawless performance via miniDV tapes.
So, for my $200, I TRUELY STOLE this unit from the salesmen.
I laughted so hard while walking out of the store! he, he... he, he...
And look-it-me-now! 3+months later, I'm still laughing! he, he...he,he...

Oh, and buy the way, it takes great pictures/video too! he, he...

So, don't let anybody scare you aobut that price - - their could be
many reasons why it's that cheap, and I gave you a perfectly good
example for my DV cam expeirence - - was damaged!
Mind you, to a causual walker in the store, who would to see the same
things I saw in this camera, would have turned it down! Not me!
I saw right pass the camera's faults/damaged areas. It's ben banged
around like you wouldn't believe. Believe me! The metal hinges that
hold the strap is really bent, and its very hard steal there. Those
who own the Canon ZR-10/20/40, etc. know this - - just look at your
ZR model's sholder strape hinge and just try and bend it - - you can't!
The only way is to either drop it or bang it against something. So,
this CAM has ben through some really rough handling!

Like I said, the CAM has given me nothing but flawless performance!
I give my model 5 * * * * * stars! oh, he, he... he, he....

Well, that's my experience... and I'm sticken to it!
-vhelp

[Cooly-O]

Let me slow down here. I found out (a call from their verification department) that it doesn't come with a battery, charger, and they mentioned memory??? & software????.

I canceled the order until I can figure this out.

I finally just searched for the best price on the Canon ZR40 kit. It wasn't worth buying the camera seperate and then having to buy a battery.....etc.

I found a really good price for the ZR40 through www.pricescan.com (I initially found this site through a yahoo search for "Canon ZR40"). Seams like a good price search engine (I found better prices than www.pricegrabber.com and www.pricewatch.com).

I got the whole ZR40 kit for $469.99. I also bought an additional battery, (Lithium 7 hour) for $129.99 (sorry but I always need the best battery). The site with the best price a couple of weeks ago was: www.citywidedigital.com

Here's how to find the lowest price: Go to PriceScan, select category: Electronics, Search for: Canon ZR40, select: MiniDV, Manufacturer: Canon, Search, click on Canon ZR40.

The first 5 or 6 lowest prices won't be kits but only the bare-bones camera (buying cheapest battery alone will put you over the price of a kit). Keep clicking on different vendors until you find the one that has the lowest price for the kit.. Don't forget to compare shipping cost.

But I think BestBuy Digital has the best price today: $409 for the kit.

Remember: if it doesn't say "includes battery, power adapter...." then it's the camera only!!! Buy the kit instead. You may want to buy a camera bag also.

The camera is bitch'n. Playback speakers, large LCD screen, video pass-through, nice optical zoom..... :P

[mpb]

My God.... look at how cheap this thing is on ebay.

YAHOO!!!!!

I wanted to get the Sony TRV-25, since the one I've been borrowing has already become indispensable to me, but dang, I could sure stand to save a couple hunnert bucks...

[Cooly-O]

My God.... look at how cheap this thing is on ebay.

YAHOO!!!!!

I wanted to get the Sony TRV-25, since the one I've been borrowing has already become indispensable to me, but dang, I could sure stand to save a couple hunnert bucks...

Yea??? The cheapest e-bay "Buy it now" price for the complete kit is $489.99 ($80 bucks more expensive than the price I quoted above).

I forgot to mention another really cool aspect of the ZR40. It's so small fits into the palm of your hand. You might very well be just as happy with the ZR40. I am.

[yg1968]

One disadvantage is that the Canon passthrough feature doesn't defeat macrovision but the Sony does.

[Cooly-O]

One disadvantage is that the Canon passthrough feature doesn't defeat macrovision but the Sony does.

I have a $69 solution for you: APEX 1500 DVD player (A, B, C or D serial numbers). The only disadvantage is that you won't be donating hundreds of dollars to Sony (sorry Sony stockholders and last of the big spenders).

[yg1968]

How does an Apex DVD player help you with VHS macrovision?

The Sony TRV-18 sells for the same price: $489.

http://www.pricescan.com/electronics/items/item512114.asp

[Cooly-O]

How does an Apex DVD player help you with VHS macrovision?

The Sony TRV-18 sells for the same price: $489.

http://www.pricescan.com/electronics/items/item512114.asp

Same price as the bad e-bay price but about a $100 more expensive than the price I'm recommending. That doesn't look like a complete kit of all manufacturer supplied accessories. Lowest price for all accessories for the TRV-18 looks to be about $505. If your into capturing VHS movies it might be worth the extra $100 (25% more $) to you. For more VHS/disabling macrovision tips see: Here

I'd rather stick to DVDs and the Canon ZR40 and buy a hackable DVD player with the remaining savings plus change left over. Meanwhile I'm enjoying about twice the optical zoom and the built in speaker. Enjoy....and..... spend your money wisely my friend.

[yg1968]

The Sony TRV 18 also has a built in speaker. I think that most miniDV camcorder do.

Incidentally, I agree that the Canon is not a bad choice. I am not a Sony fanatic but I like the fact that when Sony believes that a feature is a good idea, they offer it on all of their products. As far as I know all Sony miniDV camcorders have a passthrough feature (almost all Sony digital 8 camcorders also have it).

Sony offers firewire (or i-link) on almost all their digital products (including HDTVs, PS2, Sony Vaio computers). I have respect for a company that says: this is what the standard should be, let's not cut corners on the product and let's make it the standard.

[Cooly-O]

Glad to hear most have speakers. Really nice to have them to enjoy "on the fly" playback. Sounds lilke the TRV 18 is a pretty good consideration. There's not many names out there with more respect than Sony's. The macrovision loophole is at a minimum convenient and possibly a major asset to some.

Nice to have some good competitive products out there. Thanks again.