Prove it!!! SVCD > VCD header trick w/ no quality loss

[Cooly-O]

If anyone thinks that the trick at http://www.geocities.com/newestmoviesencode/dvdvcd or at "How To play MPEG2(svcd) in Panasonic DVD Players": http://forum.vcdhelp.com/userguides/97090.php works at same quality as original SVCD than let us know some details like what your files size was after the VCD headers were rewritten.

I tried and got a file half the size of original (approx. same size as re-encoded to VCD file size) and I didn't notice any better quality than re-encodeding to VCD.

See my similar post (Spiderman Conversion) at:
http://forum.vcdhelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=270514#270514

[loumarx]

Have you tried with mpeg 1 vcd standard or non-standard?
The filesize also differs. I don't notice any drop in quality, but movies encoded in mpeg 2 to fit one cd, when single-multiplexed to mpeg-1 video cd, are about 300 MB bigger. Single-mutiplexed to vcd non-standard, they're about 10 MB smaller, but have a/v desinyc when burned (((

[Daagar]

The 'trick' does not change the quality of the file. It simply rewrites the headers, so that your DVD player thinks it is playing an mpeg1 file rather than an mpeg2 file. My understanding is that it is usually the firmware in the DVD player that decides if something is playable or not. If it sees anything other than 'DVD/VCD/CD', it says 'hell no, won't play'. So you are simply saying 'why yes, this -is- a vcd, trust me...'. The hardware to play mpeg2 is already there, and this trick got you past the firmware gateway.
Yes, I have seen the file size change. I don't have an explination for that, as I don't know the format of vcd/svcd headers.

[Truman]

Since you only demux, remux and write new headers the quality is the same, because the file is the same. Rewriting headers does not effect a different filesize. If you use the same muxrate, that was used the first time, the file size is the same. But the criminal downloaders dont know how the SVCD image was created, so they are in trouble.

[Cooly-O]

Since you only demux, remux and write new headers the quality is the same, because the file is the same. Rewriting headers does not effect a different filesize. If you use the same muxrate, that was used the first time, the file size is the same. But the criminal downloaders dont know how the SVCD image was created, so they are in trouble.

Well I did end up with a files size about twice as small. Do you see anything about muxrate at: http://www.geocities.com/newestmoviesencode/dvdvcd ??? I don't, so fill us in on the info.

Have you tried with mpeg 1 vcd standard or non-standard?
The filesize also differs. I don't notice any drop in quality, but movies encoded in mpeg 2 to fit one cd, when single-multiplexed to mpeg-1 video cd, are about 300 MB bigger. Single-mutiplexed to vcd non-standard, they're about 10 MB smaller, but have a/v desinyc when burned

I tried with MPEG-1 VCD non-standard and did end up with the the a/v desinyc ditto: . I need to end up with the filesizes that you're quoting (bigger or in the neighborhood of the original file size).

What am I missing????

[resnullius]

well first of if you ended up with a file half the size you did one of 2 things wrong 1 you actually reencoded the mpg instead of doing what they said on the link you gave or 2 it crashed while doing it and you didn't notice...

[Truman]

I recommend to use bbMPEG to multiplex as I do for a long time without any problems. Play with the settings to see the effect. TMPG's multiplexer does not let you set anything. Everything are default settings. If you want to change SVCD MPEG-2 to XVCD MPEG-2 with TMPG, you must select Video-CD(non-standard). Then the multiplexer will set the muxrate automatically, otherwise it will work with a fixed forced muxrate, that is probably wrong.
About the a/v async issue, is the multiplexed MPEG out of sync before or after burning?

[Cooly-O]

About the a/v async issue, is the multiplexed MPEG out of sync before or after burning?

I'll have to experiment to see which iteration (post VCDGear, post DVD2AVI, post TMPGEnc simple multiplex or post NeroBurn) started showing the a/v async prob.

I used Mpeg-1 VCD non-compliant for all. I may have did a a Simple Multiplex and Merge/Cut with the same end product. So that was two places where VCD headers would have been created (i don't think that should be of issue).

[loumarx]

TRuman: "About the a/v async issue, is the multiplexed MPEG out of sync before or after burning?"

In my case, it's out of sync when I play it on my standalone dvd player... It's fine on the computer...

[Daagar]

Ahh... if the sync is fine on your computer, but desync's on the standalone player, choose MPEG-1 VCD rather than MPEG-1 VCD (non-compliant) in TMPGEnc. I know all the guides say otherwise, but doing this fixed the sync (or made it a lot closer at least). However, you are likely to get 'buffer underflow' errors in TMPGEnc when doing this. I haven't been able to determine if this actually affects the result or not. This may be avoided by muxing with bbMPEG or some other tool, but I haven't tried. I found re-encoding to VCD, while more time for encoding, was less of a hassle overall.

[loumarx]

Multiplexing it in mpeg-1 vcd makes the output file 300 MB bigger, with one-cd encoded movies...

(Why would I like to make one-cd movies? Well, for animation movies, with constant backgrounds, the bitrate is usually more than enough, especially using CCE VBR; also, some poorly encoded divx aren't really worth 2 or 3 cds...)

[Cooly-O]

TRuman: "About the a/v async issue, is the multiplexed MPEG out of sync before or after burning?"

In my case, it's out of sync when I play it on my standalone dvd player... It's fine on the computer...

I played the files on my computer after just correcting (VCDGear w/ fix errors selected) Spiderman Centropy disc 1 of 3 on my computer and it had garbaled audio. I then Simple Multiplexed with VCD Headers (non-compliant) in TMPGEnc and the resulting file was both played on computer and burned with Nero. The file played on computer (ATI software) wouldn't open, something like "....not supported". The one burned (non compliant VCD) did play on my Apex DVD player with SVCD quality but the audio cutout about every other second .

I think this movie (Spiderman) is just "hosed". I'll try to experiment with the other demux software suggested here and maybe keep experimenting. Any success stories with this demux "trick" technique with this Spiderman movie without re-encoding to VCD????

[Big_Jit]

I did the trick and it worked! I've noticed that after i remux the av is not in sync on my computer but when played on a dvd player it plays smooth. One problem is that when i use NTSC(film) the audio cuts out on every second but i fixed that by applying a 3:2 pulldown on playback in TMPGEnc when i encode in mpeg2...

[Cooly-O]

I did the trick and it worked! I've noticed that after i remux the av is not in sync on my computer but when played on a dvd player it plays smooth. One problem is that when i use NTSC(film) the audio cuts out on every second but i fixed that by applying a 3:2 pulldown on playback in TMPGEnc when i encode in mpeg2...

Why are you re-encoding to mpeg2? Wasn't the file already a mpeg2? What is a 3:2 pulldown?

Has anyone successfully done the "trick" for the 3 centropy Spiderman disks. This should not include any encoding. But if "trick" is impossible (without a/v asinc troubles) for these particular files then encoding stories are welcome.

[Cooly-O]

I recommend to use bbMPEG to multiplex as I do for a long time without any problems. Play with the settings to see the effect. TMPG's multiplexer does not let you set anything. Everything are default settings. If you want to change SVCD MPEG-2 to XVCD MPEG-2 with TMPG, you must select Video-CD(non-standard). Then the multiplexer will set the muxrate automatically, otherwise it will work with a fixed forced muxrate, that is probably wrong.
About the a/v async issue, is the multiplexed MPEG out of sync before or after burning?

How come I can't load the mpeg-2 file in bbMPEG (The installed program says BB AVI2MPG2 - v1.24 beta 13 at top)? I pick "load" and it looks for *.A2M files but i change to *.* and select my mpeg-2 file that I extracted with CDMage). I get an open file error. I'm running Windows2000 Professional.

I noticed at the BBmpeg download site ( http://www.divx-digest.com/software/avi2mpg2.html ) that there is a WinXP patch. I don't think that would affect me. BTW my AVI2MPG2 program looks the same as shown at download site.

[Truman]

http://www.doom9.org/mpg/bbmpeg.htm

[Martyn1980]

If your using BBpeg to Multiplex then dont click on Load Project or add avi.

Click on start encoding, dont worry it wont encode anything, then on setting and then on input output files and you will see were to add the mpeg 2 files

By the way to anyone in the know, is there any difference in picture quality between say a 480x576 xvcd at say 2000kbs mpeg1, and a 480x576 xsvcd at 2000kbs mpeg2.

[Truman]

If you compare MPEG-1 to MPEG-2 at that specs and the source is progressive, probably you wont see a difference, at least I can not see any.

[Martyn1980]

Its Just im using a Toshiba 210E which has audio sync problems with Mpeg 2 and i just wondered, before i go wasting anymore discs.

Another question if u dont mind, i use CCE to encode, but i heard Tmpeg was better for mpeg 1, is there a difference and is it big enough for me to go back to Tmpeg, id rather not as im kinda used to the speed of CCE now.

Thanks for answering

[fergums]

I converted an SVCD to play on my panasonic RV31 using the TMPGEnc trick of going to mpeg tools, Simple multiplex, and under type making it MPEG-1 VideoCD and the file size is identical to the original and it plays on my dvd player. No hassles! While the quality is better than VCD I notice jaggies on subjects that run or move around a lot. This part is quite annoying.

[Zer0AcmE]

Well i tried it out and I almost got it ot work. I tried this with both the SVCD Undercover Brother and Spiderman. Using TMPEGnc I was able to multiplex the file under MPEG-1 Video-CD. Then using Nero was able to burn the file to VCD with only a slite problem. The file size was almost the same about 10 mb difference. This happened both times i did it, one process completed fine, the other gave an error report at the end but worked none the less. I have a Sony DVD player that plays only VCD and it played the movie fine, although the images and sound were in sync the image itself was off center, it looked like the images were to big for the screen. I dont know if it is a setting issue or not or just my dvd players firmware, can't really change anything in TMPEGnc. Any thoughts on something I missed??

[baseband]

Well, here's what did and didn't work for me on my Mintek 2110 that supports VCD well, but doesn't officially support SVCD, and cuts off the last third of any SVCD you try to play.

My first attempts produced non-working files of half the size of the original SVCD, a la Cooly-O. This was because my SVCD was a downloaded capture of a music video, and I have no idea what program this guy used to create it. Just to test it, I re-encoded the SVCD in TMPGenc.

The MPEG 1 Video CD (non-standard) option produced a video that was about 1MB smaller than the SVCD it came from. It did play all the way through on my Mintek, but the audio cut in and out constantly. Changing the setting to regular MPEG 1 VCD fixed that problem. Now it seems to work like a charm. When I get a chance, I also plan to try this on my neighbor's DVD player that supports VCD, but not SVCD. I forget what brand it is.

I also tried to change the headers with BBMpeg (following the instructions in this thread), but it gave me an error about the wrong file type, then freaked out and crashed.