Write speed effect on VCDs/SVCDs

[mrtristan]

Does the speed at which you burn a cd make any difference in the playback of the file?

I just split up a DVD rip of Ocean's Eleven into four parts. Each file plays perfectly, if I run if off of my hard drive. However, the sound is out of sync on each disk. I tested all of them from my CD-ROM and DVD drives.

I used a CBR of 2750 and I ran the audio bitrate at 224Kb/s. (Mpeg2)

DMA is enabled on both cd drives. I burned them at 12X.

Edit: I just tried burning at a slower speed, 8X, with no luck. I am using Nero 5.5.8.0.

I also tried copying the file back to my hard drive, to see if it was corrupted during the burning process. The copied file plays back perfectly, with no audio synchronization problems.

Edit2: Hmm. Turns out that the audio is okay, if I pause first, then click to the section that I want. After that, I unpause and the audio is fine. However, if I try to jump to a different time without pausing, the audio becomes delayed by about a second.

[fakesky]

Suposely, yes, but practically, for me, no.

I always burn at 12x with media that supports 12x or more(obviously)
and Ive never got any problems with thoose.
Psx/ps2/dc/vcd/svcd no problemo.

[Nexeh]

I had problems with burining at higher speeds but I think it could have been my media. I remember reading somewhere that 4x is suppose to be the optimal speed and that is what I go with now. However I have burned at max and the vcd work fine.

[vitualis]

It is not so much the burn speed but some PLAYERS that are the problem.

Many stand-alone DVD players are not designed to read CD-R/W media and only do so marginally. Thus, subtle factors (including CD-R brand and burn speed) can affect how well these drives can get data off the disc.

If it reads it poorly, this leads to errors on reading --> blocks, skips, poor playback.

This doesn't mean that burn speed actually affects the "quality" of the burn data on the disc. If you DVD player was designed to read CD-R/W media, burn speed won't matter. You will be able to burn at the max burn speed with no problems (assuming that your drive and media can handle it of course).

Regards.

[Fran-K]

On the VCD specification, .DAT files are written on mode2/XA tracks. In this tracks the error correction bytes in each sector is used to get more
space for video. This makes it more sensitive to media/burner errors. If a write error occurs, it's forever!

So I think 4X (even 2X) is a safe speed for any combination of burner/media.

After all, if you spend 1 or more days polishing your videos, what's a 20 min delay to save your masterwork?

[vitualis]

The above is not quite correct.

The lack of ECC makes S/VCDs more susceptible to damage (e.g., scratches) but the BURN SPEED should not affect data integrity.

If it does, your CD burner is broken...

Assuming your burner and media is working normally, the data that is written on ANY disc (S/VCD included) should be identical regardless of burn speed.

Regards.

[Bullworth]

Kinda wierd for me. If I burn a show I captured from TV at 12X it works flawlesly, but if I burn a DVD rip higher than 4X somewhere in the movie it starts to stutter, skip and finally stop.

[wildcatfan]

The above is not quite correct.

The lack of ECC makes S/VCDs more susceptible to damage (e.g., scratches) but the BURN SPEED should not affect data integrity.

If it does, your CD burner is broken...

Assuming your burner and media is working normally, the data that is written on ANY disc (S/VCD included) should be identical regardless of burn speed.

Regards.

Actually it was fairly correct....there are ALWAYS errors in a burn. Even data cd's (luckily they have ECC) even with good burners and good media. But in vcd's these errors can cause problems...most of the time not, sometimes it will...also cdr's DO degrade somewhat over time...I have had 2 or 3 vcds and 1 data cd go bad after weeks/months of use on me with no scratches whatsoever.... Burning speed can effect the errors on the cd...the extent of these tho varies with burner, media etc..... Some people will have problem others won't. All of my problem discs were burnt using my old burner, my new one hasn't had any of these problems....

[mrtristan]

I have some related questions.

Does the quality of the disc affect the data corruption ratio? I've been using the cheapo CompUSA discs without problems for a while, but I've never used them to burn video files until recently.

I tried burning in mode 1, instead of XA. I haven't tried burning at slower speeds yet, but it didn't make any difference, at 12X. Anyway, I tried copying a second generation copy back to my hard drive and it plays fine, when I skip to different areas of the clip. If there are errors in every disc, shouldn't the data degrade and cause problems, even when played from my hard drive?

I really don't think that data corruption is the root of the problem. The clips all play fine, if I don't skip around the discs. It's only when I try to jump ahead or behind without pausing, that the audio becomes out of sync.

I've also tried using Zoom Player, instead of Windows Media Player. Both of them present the same problem.

[Gamer1]

never use compusa disks! they are the worst disk to use. TDKs are the best in all burning areas. i think compusa disk are just desiged for music cds.

when i had compusa disks, i had to trash half of them becuase of buffer underrun, and out of sync audio for vcds

[mrtristan]

Hmm. Seems like the cds are the problem. Like you said, I didn't ever have problems with music cds, but these video cds are buggy.

never use compusa disks! they are the worst disk to use. TDKs are the best in all burning areas. i think compusa disk are just desiged for music cds.

when i had compusa disks, i had to trash half of them becuase of buffer underrun, and out of sync audio for vcds

[vitualis]

Actually it was fairly correct....there are ALWAYS errors in a burn. Even data cd's (luckily they have ECC) even with good burners and good media. But in vcd's these errors can cause problems...most of the time not, sometimes it will...also cdr's DO degrade somewhat over time...I have had 2 or 3 vcds and 1 data cd go bad after weeks/months of use on me with no scratches whatsoever.... Burning speed can effect the errors on the cd...the extent of these tho varies with burner, media etc..... Some people will have problem others won't. All of my problem discs were burnt using my old burner, my new one hasn't had any of these problems....

Yes, there are always burning errors. But unless I'm mistaken, there should be NO errors on a burnt disc uncorrectable by C1 AND C2 (which exist on all CDs including VCDs and audio CDs).

If there are errors uncorrectable by C1 and C2 on a disc immediately after a burn, then there is something wrong with the drive or media, or a compatibility issue.

Insofar as the phenonmenon described by people of higher burn speeds causing choppy video, etc., this is definitely NOT because of significant (or any) data degradation from the higher burn speed -- it is because of poor CD-R compatibility of the reader.

As for CD-R degradation with time, if you have good quality media and you treat it well, you should definitely NOT notice any significant change over the span of a few years.

Regards.

[wildcatfan]

Actually it was fairly correct....there are ALWAYS errors in a burn. Even data cd's (luckily they have ECC) even with good burners and good media. But in vcd's these errors can cause problems...most of the time not, sometimes it will...also cdr's DO degrade somewhat over time...I have had 2 or 3 vcds and 1 data cd go bad after weeks/months of use on me with no scratches whatsoever.... Burning speed can effect the errors on the cd...the extent of these tho varies with burner, media etc..... Some people will have problem others won't. All of my problem discs were burnt using my old burner, my new one hasn't had any of these problems....

Yes, there are always burning errors. But unless I'm mistaken, there should be NO errors on a burnt disc uncorrectable by C1 AND C2 (which exist on all CDs including VCDs and audio CDs).

If there are errors uncorrectable by C1 and C2 on a disc immediately after a burn, then there is something wrong with the drive or media, or a compatibility issue.

Insofar as the phenonmenon described by people of higher burn speeds causing choppy video, etc., this is definitely NOT because of significant (or any) data degradation from the higher burn speed -- it is because of poor CD-R compatibility of the reader.

As for CD-R degradation with time, if you have good quality media and you treat it well, you should definitely NOT notice any significant change over the span of a few years.

Regards.

True, but tolerances differ on all players and burners. Which is why I always say the answer is a definite maybe

[vitualis]

True, but tolerances differ on all players and burners. Which is why I always say the answer is a definite maybe

Not a problem.

Regards.

[leera2]

Just a quick note... I have been burning my VCD's on TDK media for a long time all of them at 16x with absolutley no problems.... Recently changed to cheaper Phillips media, and encounter skips/sync problems.

The simple fact is the quality of the media you use detetmines the final results.

good media, burn at 16x = no probs
Cheap Media, burn 4x-16x = skip/audio sync problems.

[EricB]

Well, my concern is what is good media? Recently one poster made the point that only disks made in Japan (as opposed to Taiwan) use higher quality dyes. I have tried to use name brand blanks, but I suspect that a number of these may come off of the same machines that produce the store brand.

In the end, I think that burn speed does make a difference. I have a Pioneer 343 which is supposed to be one of the better players. If I burn at 8x I have a lot more problems with skipping and stuttering. The same disk will play perfectly on the computer. If I copy the same disk on the same media at 4x, it will often play properly on the Pioneer. To me, that indicates that there must be some difference in the amount of dye conversion that occurs at the lower speed.

I have also had perfectly good disks fail over time with no scratches or marks on the media. Either they are degrading, or the reading of them also effects the dye.

Could this all be coincidence or "voodoo"? Maybe, but it seems to be too consistent to just be chance.

[mrtristan]

I think I may have found the problem.

I tried endless combinations of settings in Tmpgenc, to no avail. Mpeg files come out perfect, but something is just buggy with the mpeg2 files.

Burning speed didn't solve the audio delay. Neither did different brands of media. I tried three brands of media - None of them played the files back properly.

Anyway, in trying to troubleshoot this problem, I noticed that the files take about a second to register the audio, when I play them back from my hard drive.

When I play mpeg2 files back from either my DVD drive or cd-rom, the audio plays instantly, when skipping around the disc. File size didn't have any effect, either.

Soooo, I believe that the problem is my mpeg2 codec. I'm going to try and install different DVD software and see if this works.

[mrtristan]

Well, I finally found the fix. I believe the problem was related to my VIA chipset.

Just for the hell of it, I decided to install Ulead Video Studio 4.0. I didn't install it, when I did my last clean OS install. Anyway, there is an audio/video sync patch that I used to install with the program. This patch fixed the delay issues that I was experiencing.

For those of you who may have had similar problems, I believe the patch is still available on Ulead's website.