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  1. Hey Kusanagi,

    Number one, relax. Unless you are a major investor in DVD+RW or DVD-RW -R+R technologies you should really just take a freaking pill!

    Number two, that link that you say was removed that supposedly went to a dvd+RW /DVD-RW comparison faq, seemed to work when I clicked your link, am I missing something because it took me to anandtech's faq no problem, or are you saying that the link that you have pointing to DVD+RW orgs site isn't in the list of posts? It's obviously still on their server. Also it couldn't possibly be just bad forum software or an admin screwing up and making the post unavailable right? No I guess your right and it's a big conspiracy to cover up that DVD-RW -R is more compatible than DVD+RW.

    I have news for you pal, neither of these technologies have had enough penetration to warrant anybody claiming 95 percent compatability.

    On top of that, there are more than just reflectivity and medium information to put in perspective before you say something has high compatibility or not.

    You can have the perfect medium and the perfect hardware, and if you simply burn your DVD wrong it won't work in anything except a DVD Rom, or even not at all.

    You guys should work more towards figuring out what makes one equation more compatible over another so that we can make sure that both standards eventually come together into one that can work as well as CDRW does today. And anybody who has been dealing with computers also knows that CDR/CDRW went through some of the same headaches that these standards are going through now.

    The only reason I have purchased a DVD+RW drive first is that Phillips supports DVD+RW, and they are one of the major developers of the DVD technology, Period.

    Oh and Kusanagi, stop trying to sound like yoda it's extremly annoying.

    TimT
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    Who or what is yoda?
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    Originally Posted by MOVIEGEEK
    You guys need to get a life,if somebody doesn't like + or - who cares get over it.
    I was responding to plain lies about another forum and this is not the first time such lies were posted in VCDHelp.com forum. Some people seem to have been spreading that level of lies to every other forum related to DVD recording.

    Anyway, why do I need to be labeled as a "bitch" of a forum dedicated to DVD recordable technology?

    I don't care if some people with no name on the web call me idiot or something but I do care since I was going to stay here and there. I don't use username other than my real name since I don't see web as another space out of real life world.

    I'll change my mind if VCDHelp.com Forum actually allows some of its members to do such things here though it already seems to me that way.
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  4. @ Kennyshin:

    The facts speak for themselves. It should be obvious to anyone that DVDplusRW.org has been guilty of spreading some terrible misinformation about the DVD recording technologies.

    I'm sure DVD+RW is a very good technology but all independent sources show that DVD+RW is NOT as compatible as DVD-R or perhaps even DVD-RW in stand-alone DVD drives.

    Similarly, the original DVD+RW drives WILL NOT write to DVD+R media contrary to the hype/misinformation on that site. More than one member has written of their disappointment/anger of purchasing one of those drives with the expectation of being able to write to DVD+R media later on.

    A quick search for independent sources on the internet should make these facts obvious.

    As for Blu-Ray being released later this year, as I said before, this was in the initial press release (which you will find if you search for "Blu-Ray" on the forum and find my original post on this in "Off Topic"). As I also mentioned before, this may have been pushed back by now.

    Furthermore, you are not being persecuted in any way but you cannot simply call things "lies" or push your "facts" without independent evidence. I'm sorry if you think so, but DVDplusRW.org is definitely not a respected site in terms of non-biased information on DVD recording technologies. There is simply much better information out there.

    BTW, "Yoda" as in "fear is the path to the dark side".

    @ all:

    Keep this cool guys. We're just discussing technology here. There's no place for personal insults.

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
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    vitualis,

    You are one of the moderators here.

    Furthermore, you are not being persecuted in any way but you cannot simply call things "lies" or push your "facts" without independent evidence. I'm sorry if you think so, but DVDplusRW.org is definitely not a respected site in terms of non-biased information on DVD recording technologies. There is simply much better information out there.
    You obviously know well what I was calling lies. Did you check the threads at all? Lie is a lie because it is a lie. I was not talking about misunderstanding or incomplete research there.

    Tell me exactly what site has that "much better information" about DVD recording technology since I have found none.

    http://www.dvdplusrw.org/cgi/ikonboard/forums.cgi?forum=2

    Check there. There are exactly 1,878 topic threads in the forum. There is NO thread that was deleted by the moderator or by anyone simply because it is technically not allowed there. That is a fact as far as I know.

    I'm sure DVD+RW is a very good technology but all independent sources show that DVD+RW is NOT as compatible as DVD-R or perhaps even DVD-RW in stand-alone DVD drives.

    Similarly, the original DVD+RW drives WILL NOT write to DVD+R media contrary to the hype/misinformation on that site. More than one member has written of their disappointment/anger of purchasing one of those drives with the expectation of being able to write to DVD+R media later on.
    As to DVD+RW compatibility, it seems to me it's just you who haven't done more research on that. As far as I have checked, DVD+R is at least as compatible as DVD-R and DVD+RW is at least as compatible as DVD-RW.

    And who was it that said "original" DVD+RW drives can write to DVD+R media? A quote from Philips or HP? Most of the talks about DVD+R compatibility issue were generated from DVDplusRW.org forum and the Register, CNET, PC Computing, PC World, Inquirer, and so many other sites were pointing to the threads in DVDplusRW.org forum. So exactly what or who was guilty of spreading exactly what terrible misinformation?

    You don't seem to look into the matter at all.

    Keep this cool guys. We're just discussing technology here. There's no place for personal insults.
    Were YOU? You just seem to bash a competing site by spreading or helping to spread lies about it.
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    What the hell is it with all of this crap.

    Can everybody just grow up and get back to what this subject started out to be ????

    This was to be nothing more than a cool, calm level headed discussion.

    Kusanagi -- Until this thread I thought highly of you and your opinions, you don't even have John1290 egging you on in this thread.

    Can we keep this civil ?!?!

    This is NOT what I had asked for ! Just grow up ! Everyone!

    To paraphrase: "Can't we all just get along ?"
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    Resources on DVD+RW, Mt. Rainier, CD-MRW, DVD+MRW, and Blu-ray Disk

    DVD+R compatibility with PS (PlayStation) 2 discussion #946#1264
    Compatibility List DVD-Video Players (May 11 Update)
    Discussion of DVD-Video Players compatibility
    Compatibility List DVD-ROM Drives (Added on May 11)
    Disucssion on WinHEC 2002 Session: DVD+RW Presentation
    DVD+R/+RW web price
    DVD+R/+RW drive price
    VCDHelp.com DVD+R compatibility list

    DVD+R/+RW PC Drive Reviews
    CDRinfo.com Ricoh MP5125A Review
    OC.com.tw MP5125A Review
    I've just finished the test of Ricoh MP5125A DVD+RW/+R
    ZDNET HP DVD-Writer DVD200i drive Complete Review
    ZDNET Sony Electronics DRU120A DVD+RW / CD-RW Complete Review
    ZDNET Pioneer Electronics DVR-A04 DVD-RW EIDE Complete Review
    DV-Info.net DVD+RW Drive Reviews

    DVD Demystified DVD FAQ
    [4.3] What about recordable DVD: DVD-R, DVD-RAM, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, and DVD+R?

    Mt. Rainier CD-MRW Drive Reviews

    CD Freaks Mt. Rainier FAQ - Mitsumi and Teac
    CDRlabs Mitsumi 32/12/40 CD-MRW
    CDRlabs Teac 40/12/48 CD-MRW and Yamaha 24/10/40 CD-MRW

    CDRlabs Mitsumi 40/20/48 CD-MRW (12x -MRW)

    CDRinfo 40x CD-RW Round-Up Vol.2
    CDRinfo Review: Teac CD-W540E, Mitsumi CR-480ATE, Yamaha CRW3200E, Mitsumi CR-485CTE, TDK CyClone 401248B - Mt. Rainier Performance

    Yamaha 44/24/44 CD-MRW, the first 24x CD-MRW drive to be released in July, 2002
    Yamaha CRW-F1 Press Releases

    Computex Taipei 2002 Coverage
    Various interface technologies

    More Mt. Rainier Resources

    CDRinfo.com Mt. Rainier FAQ
    DVDplusRW.org FAQ - DVD+RW PC drives compared to DVD-R/RW and DVD-RAM PC drives
    Philips welcomes Microsoft support for DVD+RW format - Philips Press Release on April 15, 200
    Microsoft - DVD Writing Support and Windows
    Microsoft WinHEC 2002
    Client Storage
    Desktop DVD Recording and DVD+RW with Windows
    (859 KB self-extracting zipped PowerPoint presentation; May 2, 2002)
    The Next Generation of Optical Storage in Windows
    (1.0 MB self-extracting zipped PowerPoint presentation; May 2, 2002)
    Implementation Options for Serial ATA
    (939 KB self-extracting zipped PowerPoint presentation; May 2, 2002)

    Mt. Rainier Official Website
    Mt. Rainier
    DVD+RW
    DVD+RW Alliance

    Blu-ray Disc key characteristics
    Blu-ray Disk and other future optical storage technologie
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    Cool,

    Please don't start in with stuff like ... "most of the links are to sites that promote the '+' faction so it must be more '+' propoganada"

    I don't care if half the links are from DVDPlusRW.org.

    Information is information, and it is ALL relevant.

    I would also like to get the same kind of links to info from any pro "-" sites that are out there.


    Knowledge is a tool. Only people can abuse it ...
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  9. Kennyshin,
    The first post asks for a technical veiw of both formats. We do not need links to propaganda sites. Go back to the DVDPlusRW website and post that crap.

    RG
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    RAAGAAman !!!!!

    Did you or did you not read my last post ?!?!

    Do you have anything constructive to add to this thread ? Comments like "go away" are not helpfull.

    No, Kenny did not provide any info on personal experiences in his last post, but he did provide links to information on at least one of the competing formats. Can you do the same ?

    I started this thread to get users experiences with BOTH technologies, this includes ANY relevant information that they might posess. If you don't have anything relevant to say, get the hell out of my thread !

    I've had enough of this mindless bickering !

    I started this thread here on VCDHelp because people from both "camps" came here for information and support.

    Please start acting like the level headed people that I know you all can be and provide this community with said information and support.

    Thank You
    Da MoovyGuy
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  11. MoovyG,
    I guess that is what I have done. It seems that Kenny is trying to overload this discussion with Links to everywhere under the sun. If he would post his experiences and what the Comparisons are then this could be more civil. Likes, Dislikes about each format. I do not need to see links to sites that most everyone on this board knows are not totally truthful.
    We need facts, not possibilities or promises.

    RG
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    I apologize to all for the "temperature" of my previous post.

    I let frustration get to me and began to rant.

    So lets just get back to the good stuff, OK?
    Da MoovyGuy
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    Originally Posted by RAAGAAman
    MoovyG,
    I guess that is what I have done. It seems that Kenny is trying to overload this discussion with Links to everywhere under the sun. If he would post his experiences and what the Comparisons are then this could be more civil. Likes, Dislikes about each format. I do not need to see links to sites that most everyone on this board knows are not totally truthful.
    We need facts, not possibilities or promises.

    RG
    Yep, I know there are people who do not like to see links to sites they do not trust. However, they are still the most complete and up-to-date information on DVD+RW and Mt. Rainier. If you have known a lot better ones, share them with others.

    Everyone, read the topic thread of http://www.dvdplusrw.org/cgi/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=2&topic=841 and try to decide whether the information, opinions, disputes, and experiences are whether reliable or not.

    Since DVD+R/+RW and Mt. Rainier-enabled rewriters have been on the market for less than 15 weeks, even the major hardware review sites have had experiences with them very recently, not until May or June in most cases. The compatibility chart of DVD+R/+RW with stand-alone DVD-Video players and DVD-ROM PC drives have only recently been compiled and distributed, to be updated constantly from hence on. There are hardly any site that has more complete and up-to-date information and experiences with DVD+R/+RW than DVDplusRW.org and its forums. So, just how one can compare the two competing DVD writable format standards without knowing and researching enough into the one which arrived later?
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    Anyway, I edit it somewhat so as to make it easier to see what's in them.
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    Cool ..

    Over 1600 views, I am honored .......
    Da MoovyGuy
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  16. Maybe also because this thread alonog with the other one with John 1290
    has some really hilarious moment......
    honestly i can't understand why peoples are taking this
    so personally.....
    Please no offence taken but...Kennyshin.....
    sometimes seems like you are a close relative of the +RW Alliance Chairman...
    and i have noticed that it's an attitude common to many +R/RW users
    and it's not needed at all......as this format speaks for itself.
    I personally have a Sony Dru-120A +R/RW drive.....and i'm more than happy with it....i think it's a very good product.
    but having worked also for some times with a Pioneer A04 -R/RW i have come to think that at this point the two format are about equal.
    at least within my experience they have shared the same
    degree of compatibility with standalone players...and also media prices
    are now roughly the same for Reliable Disks.

    of course it's my point of view but i don't think There's a clear winner now......and i don't think there will be one in the future....
    the two fomat will likely remain on a par pushing forward each other for the benefit of both the Customers and the productors.

    Be Cool and happy Burning
    be it with a + or a -
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    Originally Posted by Prague
    Maybe also because this thread alonog with the other one with John 1290
    has some really hilarious moment......
    honestly i can't understand why peoples are taking this
    so personally.....
    Please no offence taken but...Kennyshin.....
    sometimes seems like you are a close relative of the +RW Alliance Chairman...
    and i have noticed that it's an attitude common to many +R/RW users
    and it's not needed at all......as this format speaks for itself.
    I personally have a Sony Dru-120A +R/RW drive.....and i'm more than happy with it....i think it's a very good product.
    but having worked also for some times with a Pioneer A04 -R/RW i have come to think that at this point the two format are about equal.
    at least within my experience they have shared the same
    degree of compatibility with standalone players...and also media prices
    are now roughly the same for Reliable Disks.

    of course it's my point of view but i don't think There's a clear winner now......and i don't think there will be one in the future....
    the two fomat will likely remain on a par pushing forward each other for the benefit of both the Customers and the productors.

    Be Cool and happy Burning
    be it with a + or a -
    Since you said something about me personally, I do take it personally in a sense. Philips and Ricoh are not popular in Korea and their products are almost non-existent here. It's Pioneer, LG, Samsung, and others that lead and dominate South Korean market of DVD players, DVD-ROM drives, and various other consumer and computer products.

    I support many of Intel's policies. I support many of Microsoft ways. I like Thomas Pabst and Anand. I agree with Philips in that it has been pushing DVD+RW standard more than DVD-RW recently even though it has stakes in both since DVD+RW IS superior and better than DVD-RW.

    I don't care much about the compatibility issue since it is not that important in the long-term view. Most people buy CD writers for their speed, technological reliability, features, and price. I do care about the speed difference and future scalability of DVD+RW. Though a lot of people are cynical and/or skeptical about Mt. Rainier and DVD+MRW, there are also a lot of people who have been very enthusiastic over them and I belong to the latter. As far as I am concerned, I have almost completely lost any interest in non-MRW ODD products. I had enough CD writers. Nearly 15 drives. If one wants to start DVD burning, I don't see any reason why one has to choose a backward standard instead of more promising one.

    I don't care who's the chairman of DVD Alliance. I do know who are the men deciding almost everything LG and Samsung do. Well, if I were one of the relatives, I'd been one of the 100 richest persons in the world. Why do some people accuse others about whom they know almost nothing about? Because they are inherently rude or unable to think or something? Because it's war and in war everything can be justified? I know it may mean big loss of investment for shareholders of either Pioneer or Philips or Ricoh. The same with all those fanatics of AMD and Intel. I do not belong to your sorts. Go on fighting your war over license and standards while the rest will continue to watch and see until making decisions. I am not loyal to any company or any technology.
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  18. Wow that's strange.........maybe there has been a great misunderstanding
    here........
    Mr Kennyshin i'm not accusing you of anything.......my statemnt of you being connected
    with the chairman of the + RW alliance was intended only as a joke........
    because it's clear from your postings that your passion and commitment to providing info and supporting the + RW format is very deep
    and i may admire you for this kind of passion........
    but i don't think that's really needed
    +RW is a very good and promising format that right now is at least on the same level as the -RW so let it speak for itself.
    if it will become superior is difficoult to say but is surely set to do a good competion in the next future ......
    maybe you also miss another point of my post and it's that having
    worked with both format i have experienced them to be about equivalent RIGHT NOW and nonetheless i have chosen to go your way with a +R/RW drive........
    because i'have trusted this format also in the long term and i'm very happy with it.


    in turn if i read well you accuse me of being "rude or unable to think".....
    well i don't care.....cause i'm not interested in starting a flame here..and honestly i'm a little rude....and it's notorious that
    drummers/sound tech are slow thinking individuals


    Be Cool and happy Burning
    be it with a + or a -
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    Originally Posted by Prague
    Wow that's strange.........maybe there has been a great misunderstanding
    here........
    Mr Kennyshin i'm not accusing you of anything.......my statemnt of you being connected
    with the chairman of the + RW alliance was intended only as a joke........
    because it's clear from your postings that your passion and commitment to providing info and supporting the + RW format is very deep
    and i may admire you for this kind of passion........
    but i don't think that's really needed
    +RW is a very good and promising format that right now is at least on the same level as the -RW so let it speak for itself.
    if it will become superior is difficoult to say but is surely set to do a good competion in the next future ......
    maybe you also miss another point of my post and it's that having
    worked with both format i have experienced them to be about equivalent RIGHT NOW and nonetheless i have chosen to go your way with a +R/RW drive........
    because i'have trusted this format also in the long term and i'm very happy with it.


    in turn if i read well you accuse me of being "rude or unable to think".....
    well i don't care.....cause i'm not interested in starting a flame here..and honestly i'm a little rude....and it's notorious that
    drummers/sound tech are slow thinking individuals


    Be Cool and happy Burning
    be it with a + or a -
    Prague,

    Your "not... really needed" is just another way of telling me to shut up.

    Whether you interpret that I am "commited" to DVD+RW format or not is your problem, not mine. I am not commited to any technology or any company. I criticize a lot both about AMD and Intel. I have publicly and personally introduced DVD-RAM in late 1990s when it was the only affordable DVD writable standard. I have bought NONE of DVD+RW format yet. I have posted hundreds on DVD-RW as well. You are just accusing me of have "passion" about DVD+RW only because that is your point of attack. You were just making it worse when I had been just making a more complete and expanded sources of knowledge, experiences, and discussions on DVD+RW and Mt. Rainier. In case you were talking about my postings as replies to some people in DVDplusRW.org and VCDHelp.com, the only major reason I began to spend some time in DVDplusRW.org was that the people there were nice and rather more open-minded and the average postings were more informative and deep and free of jerks, not that I supported DVD+RW and was against DVD-RW. I had been still considering to buy either DVD-RAM, DVD-RW, DVD Multi, or DVD+RW drive. In South Korea, as I have said earlier, Samsung and LG are dominant. There were already DVD-RAM/-RW drives. However, DVDplusRW.org is still a DVD-related forum dedicated to ONLY DVD+RW standard and that was why I concentrated more on DVD+RW there. Later, some guys began to spread lies and hatred about DVDplusRW.org forum after some heated discussions there to VCDHelp.com, DV-info.net, and various other DVD-related sites. That was the initial reason why I came here. Now, as long as some of you try to bash and discredit the other side, I can only criticize that level of attitude. I wrote this "Call me Ken" because I was annoyed to see some people calling me by my username or family name. I'm a Korean and "Shin" is a Korean family name. Therefore, if you do not know how to properly use it - and it could be very insulting both to the person and the family, you can just use the English name. I have used this English name Ken since early 1990s exactly for that reason. I am not interested in flame or whatever you call it because it's not mine. If you are rude and don't know the difference of passion and enthusiasm, and the difference of support and commitment, you should have restrained yourself from accusing me of anything that way. If some people don't like to read my postings here, they can either leave this forum or not read mine. I don't care that much since a lot of people here seem to talk about other individuals to attack and discredit their opinions or whatever on technologies.
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  20. Originally Posted by Kennyshin
    I'm sure DVD+RW is a very good technology but all independent sources show that DVD+RW is NOT as compatible as DVD-R or perhaps even DVD-RW in stand-alone DVD drives.

    Similarly, the original DVD+RW drives WILL NOT write to DVD+R media contrary to the hype/misinformation on that site. More than one member has written of their disappointment/anger of purchasing one of those drives with the expectation of being able to write to DVD+R media later on.
    As to DVD+RW compatibility, it seems to me it's just you who haven't done more research on that. As far as I have checked, DVD+R is at least as compatible as DVD-R and DVD+RW is at least as compatible as DVD-RW.
    This may well be true, but DVD+R has just been released. DVD+RW, however, has much poorer compatibility with older DVD player than DVD-R. The pertinent fact is that DVD+RW drives will not write to DVD-R.

    And who was it that said "original" DVD+RW drives can write to DVD+R media? A quote from Philips or HP?
    No you doofus. That information was originally from the DVDplusRW.org site. It was from THAT information that swayed many people to purchase the older DVD+RW drives in the expectation that they would be able to burn DVD+R media when it was released.

    Furthermore, when DVD+RW was first released, DVDplusRW.org widely stated that DVD+RW would have better compatibility than the -RW media. This turned out NOT to be case.

    Do some historical research before posting ignorant drivel.

    Were YOU? You just seem to bash a competing site by spreading or helping to spread lies about it.
    These are not "lies" but facts. DVDplusRW.org has promoted some pretty dodgey consumer information in the past and certainly more than one member here has been burnt (you can read the many pissed off posts of people when it was announced earlier this year that first generation DVD+RW drives would not burn onto DVD+R). Perhaps you just don't know the history of DVDplusRW.org

    Competing site?? That is no more a competing site than CDR-Info or Tom's Hardware Guide is a competing site.

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
    w: Morsels of Evidence
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  21. In fact, I see that DVDplusRW.org still haven't updated that FAQ: http://www.dvdplusrw.org/faq/dvdplusrwfaq01.html

    1.1 How is DVD+RW related to DVD-RAM and DVD-RW?
    DVD+RW, DVD-RAM and DVD-RW are all rewritable DVD formats, however, only DVD+RW is designed from the start to be compatible with existing DVD-ROM drives and DVD-Video players, both on a physical as well as a logical level. This means that a DVD+RW disc recorded in a DVD+RW video recorder can be played in virtually all DVD-Video players...
    Virtually all? Hmmm...

    1.1.1 How is DVD+R related to DVD-R?
    DVD+R (DVD+Recordable) is defined as a subset of DVD+RW. Using dedicated DVD+R write once discs, which will be substantially cheaper than DVD+RW discs, users can record material in the same way as with DVD+RW discs without the ability to erase the disc or re-record onto them. DVD+R discs can be recorded by any DVD+RW PC drive or video recorder, except for the first generation of DVD+RW PC drives (manufactured before April 2002). First generation DVD+RW video recorders need a simple firmware upgrade.
    Simple firmware upgrade? Hmmm....

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
    w: Morsels of Evidence
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  22. Quote:
    1.1.1 How is DVD+R related to DVD-R?
    DVD+R (DVD+Recordable) is defined as a subset of DVD+RW. Using dedicated DVD+R write once discs, which will be substantially cheaper than DVD+RW discs, users can record material in the same way as with DVD+RW discs without the ability to erase the disc or re-record onto them. DVD+R discs can be recorded by any DVD+RW PC drive or video recorder, except for the first generation of DVD+RW PC drives (manufactured before April 2002). First generation DVD+RW video recorders need a simple firmware upgrade.

    Simple firmware upgrade? Hmmm....
    Actually there is a F/W upgrade for the DVD Recorder from Philips. There is no upgrade for the first Gen DVD+RW drives though.

    I do agree with you on the compatibilty statement. That it really a bunch of BS.

    RG
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    MovieGeek, I beg to differ. I thought it was an interesting thread for a newbie like me. That is, until you decided to editorialize it.
    Hello.
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    Originally Posted by vitualis
    In fact, I see that DVDplusRW.org still haven't updated that FAQ: http://www.dvdplusrw.org/faq/dvdplusrwfaq01.html

    1.1 How is DVD+RW related to DVD-RAM and DVD-RW?
    DVD+RW, DVD-RAM and DVD-RW are all rewritable DVD formats, however, only DVD+RW is designed from the start to be compatible with existing DVD-ROM drives and DVD-Video players, both on a physical as well as a logical level. This means that a DVD+RW disc recorded in a DVD+RW video recorder can be played in virtually all DVD-Video players...
    Virtually all? Hmmm...

    1.1.1 How is DVD+R related to DVD-R?
    DVD+R (DVD+Recordable) is defined as a subset of DVD+RW. Using dedicated DVD+R write once discs, which will be substantially cheaper than DVD+RW discs, users can record material in the same way as with DVD+RW discs without the ability to erase the disc or re-record onto them. DVD+R discs can be recorded by any DVD+RW PC drive or video recorder, except for the first generation of DVD+RW PC drives (manufactured before April 2002). First generation DVD+RW video recorders need a simple firmware upgrade.
    Simple firmware upgrade? Hmmm....

    Regards.
    That just proves you are almost completely ignorant of DVD+RW and that is probably why you continue to ignore DVD+RW.
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  25. Member
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    Originally Posted by vitualis
    Originally Posted by Kennyshin
    I'm sure DVD+RW is a very good technology but all independent sources show that DVD+RW is NOT as compatible as DVD-R or perhaps even DVD-RW in stand-alone DVD drives.

    Similarly, the original DVD+RW drives WILL NOT write to DVD+R media contrary to the hype/misinformation on that site. More than one member has written of their disappointment/anger of purchasing one of those drives with the expectation of being able to write to DVD+R media later on.
    As to DVD+RW compatibility, it seems to me it's just you who haven't done more research on that. As far as I have checked, DVD+R is at least as compatible as DVD-R and DVD+RW is at least as compatible as DVD-RW.
    This may well be true, but DVD+R has just been released. DVD+RW, however, has much poorer compatibility with older DVD player than DVD-R. The pertinent fact is that DVD+RW drives will not write to DVD-R.

    And who was it that said "original" DVD+RW drives can write to DVD+R media? A quote from Philips or HP?
    No you doofus. That information was originally from the DVDplusRW.org site. It was from THAT information that swayed many people to purchase the older DVD+RW drives in the expectation that they would be able to burn DVD+R media when it was released.

    Furthermore, when DVD+RW was first released, DVDplusRW.org widely stated that DVD+RW would have better compatibility than the -RW media. This turned out NOT to be case.

    Do some historical research before posting ignorant drivel.

    Were YOU? You just seem to bash a competing site by spreading or helping to spread lies about it.
    These are not "lies" but facts. DVDplusRW.org has promoted some pretty dodgey consumer information in the past and certainly more than one member here has been burnt (you can read the many pissed off posts of people when it was announced earlier this year that first generation DVD+RW drives would not burn onto DVD+R). Perhaps you just don't know the history of DVDplusRW.org

    Competing site?? That is no more a competing site than CDR-Info or Tom's Hardware Guide is a competing site.

    Regards.
    Maybe you seriously think Jorg is the power behind Ricoh and its engineers. Until I'm persuaded to admit your words, I'll continue to call you a liar.
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  26. Member
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    Originally Posted by RAAGAAman
    Quote:
    1.1.1 How is DVD+R related to DVD-R?
    DVD+R (DVD+Recordable) is defined as a subset of DVD+RW. Using dedicated DVD+R write once discs, which will be substantially cheaper than DVD+RW discs, users can record material in the same way as with DVD+RW discs without the ability to erase the disc or re-record onto them. DVD+R discs can be recorded by any DVD+RW PC drive or video recorder, except for the first generation of DVD+RW PC drives (manufactured before April 2002). First generation DVD+RW video recorders need a simple firmware upgrade.

    Simple firmware upgrade? Hmmm....
    Actually there is a F/W upgrade for the DVD Recorder from Philips. There is no upgrade for the first Gen DVD+RW drives though.

    I do agree with you on the compatibilty statement. That it really a bunch of BS.

    RG
    This is an unedited version from http://www.dvdplusrw.org/faq/dvdplusrwfaq01.html:

    1.1 How is DVD+RW related to DVD-RAM and DVD-RW?
    DVD+RW, DVD-RAM and DVD-RW are all rewritable DVD formats, however, only DVD+RW is designed from the start to be compatible with existing DVD-ROM drives and DVD-Video players, both on a physical as well as a logical level. This means that a DVD+RW disc recorded in a DVD+RW video recorder can be played in virtually all DVD-Video players or DVD-ROM equiped PCs, and that any DVD+RW disc recorded with data on a PC DVD+RW drive can be read by most DVD-ROM drives.


    Have you ever tested enough DVD+RW discs recorded in a DVD+RW video recorder? Or seen such reviews by reliable sources?
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  27. Swollen Member
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    Originally Posted by Kennyshin
    Originally Posted by RAAGAAman
    Quote:
    1.1.1 How is DVD+R related to DVD-R?
    DVD+R (DVD+Recordable) is defined as a subset of DVD+RW. Using dedicated DVD+R write once discs, which will be substantially cheaper than DVD+RW discs, users can record material in the same way as with DVD+RW discs without the ability to erase the disc or re-record onto them. DVD+R discs can be recorded by any DVD+RW PC drive or video recorder, except for the first generation of DVD+RW PC drives (manufactured before April 2002). First generation DVD+RW video recorders need a simple firmware upgrade.

    Simple firmware upgrade? Hmmm....
    Actually there is a F/W upgrade for the DVD Recorder from Philips. There is no upgrade for the first Gen DVD+RW drives though.

    I do agree with you on the compatibilty statement. That it really a bunch of BS.

    RG
    This is an unedited version from http://www.dvdplusrw.org/faq/dvdplusrwfaq01.html:

    1.1 How is DVD+RW related to DVD-RAM and DVD-RW?
    DVD+RW, DVD-RAM and DVD-RW are all rewritable DVD formats, however, only DVD+RW is designed from the start to be compatible with existing DVD-ROM drives and DVD-Video players, both on a physical as well as a logical level. This means that a DVD+RW disc recorded in a DVD+RW video recorder can be played in virtually all DVD-Video players or DVD-ROM equiped PCs, and that any DVD+RW disc recorded with data on a PC DVD+RW drive can be read by most DVD-ROM drives.


    Have you ever tested enough DVD+RW discs recorded in a DVD+RW video recorder? Or seen such reviews by reliable sources?
    Kenny, the 1.1.1 quote to which RAAGAAman referred is directly from that page here, and it is unedited aside from the bold. Indeed, the statement "First generation DVD+RW video recorders need a simple firmware upgrade." is incorrect, as you know.

    As for the compatibility issue, it is well known by the vcdhelp.com community and elsewhere that neither DVD+RW nor DVD-RW enjoy very high compatibility with standalone DVD players. The high compatibility comes with DVD-R and DVD+R.
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  28. Kennyshin Asked:
    Have you ever tested enough DVD+RW discs recorded in a DVD+RW video recorder? Or seen such reviews by reliable sources?
    Actually I have ran experiments on DVD+RW video disks along with DVD-RW at Frys, Best Buy and Circuit city. These were direct copies of Non-css DVD-Videos. The compatibility is about 50% for both. You can attempt to make DVD+RW more compatible by using the Bit compatibility utility. This will change the Book value written to the +RW disk to "DVD-ROM" but what I have found is that some DVD players and a lot of drives try to read the disk at max speed and have errors. You have to face the fact that DVD-RW and +RW are pretty much equal for video playback. The +RW alliance is trying to fool you into thinking that the data layed down on a -RW disk is different than a +RW disk. Data is Data. The are other factors like reflectivity and disk recognition that cause the real problem of compatibility. Now on DVDMRW(Mount Rainier) - DVDMRW is a good thing but there are not any DVDMRW drives being produced yet and you will not see any until probably 2003. Still the fact is that there are no overwhelming factors for either format. Maybe when DVDMRW comes in but that has not happened yet. Since most are using these writers for Video then what is deciding factor?

    RG
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  29. ?? unedited version ??

    Those quotes are directly copied from the FAQ verbatim. The only think I did was to put the pertinent points in bold.

    You are starting to clutch at straws here mate.

    The compatibility of DVD+RW in ordinary players is not significantly affected by whether it was authored on a stand-alone recorder or on the PC. After all, it is the SAME drive. The compatibility has to do with the medium itself.

    DVD+RW has been out long enough for it to be obvious that it is NOT compatible with "virtual all" DVD players. That FAQ should have been changed to reflect this a long time ago.

    Similarly with the "firmware upgrade" point of first generation DVD+RW drives. This is simply not true.

    I don't know the moderator of that site and I don't expect him to know the ins and outs of of any company. However, for a site with the prominence as DVDplusRW.org, I would at least expect that the FAQ to be up-to-date with current information and to not mislead consumers.

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
    w: Morsels of Evidence
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  30. Kenny, the 1.1.1 quote to which RAAGAAman referred is directly from that page here, and it is unedited aside from the bold. Indeed, the statement "First generation DVD+RW video recorders need a simple firmware upgrade." is incorrect, as you know.
    the statement "First generation DVD+RW video recorders need a simple firmware upgrade." is correct.

    First generation DVD+RW video recorders=Philips VDR1000/DVDR1500
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