does mpeg2 go with 23.976 fps

[smokingweed3000]

Hey
Does MPEG2 at 720*480 go with 23.976 fps with force film on? or do i have to stick with 29.97 and force film off?
Thanks a lot

[kitty]

Yes, 23.976 fps is a valid frame rate for DVD/SVCD/VCD called NTSC film.

[wildcatfan]

actually no it isn't. 23.976 is valid for vcd but not svcd or dvd. for those you must apply pulldown (repeat field flags) so that the frame rate is 29.97. The good part is it is still internally 23.976 so you don't lose any quality.

[smokingweed3000]

R u sure about that cause Ive heard of NTSC film before. I had the force film option in DVD2AVI on and it changed the movie to 23.976 fps, now i dont want to run DVD2AVI again so can i just use 23.976 and non-interlace in tmpg? I did a test and it played fine in WinDVD but my question is if its DVD comptable?
Thanks

[banjazzer]

actually no it isn't. 23.976 is valid for vcd but not svcd or dvd. for those you must apply pulldown (repeat field flags) so that the frame rate is 29.97.

So why does TMPGenc come with 3 SVCD templates - PAL, NTSC and NTSC(film)?

[wildcatfan]

easy....some players will play 23.976 fps svcd. My apex will, but it is jumpy. That doesn't however mean it is part of the specifications. I gave the specifications. Also make sure that tmpgenc template doesn't have 3:2 pulldown on playback checked, if it does it actually plays back at 29.97 anyways....

[Jack_G]

I just converted two large divx files to SVCD - 23,976 (non-interlaced - no 3:2 pulldown on playback) and they play like a charm on my Philips DVD710. No stuttering, no hickups. So maybe more players will be able to play this format. I was under the impression that this was indeed a valid format for SVCD but I think wildcatfan is right, TMPG automatically sets it to 3:2 pulldown when playback. I tried that but the movie stuttered like hell so I tried non-interlaced and it works.

Jack

[smokingweed3000]

ok thanks, so do u suggest that i run the vobs through DVD2AVI again with foce film off so it stays 29.976 and load it in tmpg and just live the frame rate on 29.976 and use interlace? And what about the video source type in the advanced tab, should I leave it on progressive?
Thanks a lot to all of u

[banjazzer]

I may be wrong (it has happened 8) ), but I'm not convinced by NTSC(film) not being valid for SVCD. Can you point me to some evidence for this. Then I will eat humble pie (and my mouse mat). 8)

[wildcatfan]

ok thanks, so do u suggest that i run the vobs through DVD2AVI again with foce film off so it stays 29.976 and load it in tmpg and just live the frame rate on 29.976 and use interlace? And what about the video source type in the advanced tab, should I leave it on progressive?
Thanks a lot to all of u

No...force film then in tmpgenc (or use pulldown.exe later...) set it to use 3:2 pulldown on playback. Some players might have problems with that but most shouldn't....

[wildcatfan]

I may be wrong (it has happened 8) ), but I'm not convinced by NTSC(film) not being valid for SVCD. Can you point me to some evidence for this. Then I will eat humble pie (and my mouse mat). 8)

The reason it isn't officially supported (doesn't mean a player won't play it fine, some will some won't) is it isn't necessary bcuz mpeg2 supports 3:2 pulldown on playback but mpeg1 doesn't. so using pulldown you encode it at 23.976 but the flags encoded in the stream tell it to repeat some fields (the player does it automatically) to get 29.97 fps. If the flags aren't present in the stream the player will play back at 23.976 fps...some players will and some won't. As to your question, no I don't have a link but I am quite sure of this. you might check google tho...

[banjazzer]

OK. So when my DVD player plays an NTSC(Film) (S)VCD presumably it converts automatically to 29.37fps? I don't ever use the 3:2 pulldown filter in TMPGenc. Should I be doing?

[smokingweed3000]

Can someone who understands this and knows that hes right about this make a guide about this step using the force film in DVD2AVI and post it on this site cause me and im sure a lot of other people screw this step up and have to waste time re-encoding and doing DVD2AVI again please.
Thanks a lot

[banjazzer]

Related to this, if I convert an NTSC(film) avi to (VCD) mpg, I normally choose an NTSC(film) VCD template. Should I be using 3:2 pulldown with this, or will it make no difference? I haven't noticed an obvious problem when I don't do it.

[wildcatfan]

Related to this, if I convert an NTSC(film) avi to (VCD) mpg, I normally choose an NTSC(film) VCD template. Should I be using 3:2 pulldown with this, or will it make no difference? I haven't noticed an obvious problem when I don't do it.

if your doing vcd no....mpeg1 doesn't support pulldown and 23.976 IS supported for vcd's. If your doing svcd then yes use pulldown as SVCD only supports 29.97 (officially at least) and mpeg2 DOES support pulldown...as to why your not seeing any problems on svcd's at 23.976 without using pulldown...that is player specific...some play em fine. Others may choke (mine plays very jumpy). yours might do pulldown automatically whether the flags are there or not...don't know.

[wildcatfan]

Can someone who understands this and knows that hes right about this make a guide about this step using the force film in DVD2AVI and post it on this site cause me and im sure a lot of other people screw this step up and have to waste time re-encoding and doing DVD2AVI again please.
Thanks a lot

If your dvd is 24 fps (23.976) then always force film in dvd2avi. the only difference will be when you encode it. If your doing VCD then encode at 23.976 as it is supported. Now if your doing SVCD encode at 23.976 also BUT make sure you enable 3:2 pulldown on playback. If you don't some players might play it ok but some might not....

[banjazzer]

Thanks for all the info. Fortunately the only DVDs I've come across so far are 25 and 29.37 fps I seem to come across quite a few NTSC(film)DivX, but I always convert these to VCD.

I just did a few test VCD encodes, adding 3:2 pulldown, and this seemed to make things worse, giving an interlaced effect. So, hopefully I'm doing things right already. 8)

[smokingweed3000]

thanks to all of ya
i think i got this now
so basically i can use force film always and for VCDs use 23.976 and for SVCDs use 23.976 with 3:2 pulldown.

[wildcatfan]

Thanks for all the info. Fortunately the only DVDs I've come across so far are 25 and 29.37 fps I seem to come across quite a few NTSC(film)DivX, but I always convert these to VCD.

I just did a few test VCD encodes, adding 3:2 pulldown, and this seemed to make things worse, giving an interlaced effect. So, hopefully I'm doing things right already. 8)

You probably will get an interlaced effect if you watch on your computer bcuz your monitor is progressive....watch it on a tv and check it out. also powerdvd does the bob/weave to deinterlace...