120 mins + 1 cd + DVD RES!!!!!!!

[baker]

Oh yes you can be scepticcal (!) I have seen the results.

Not dvd quailtys, a bit of the background was missing.

This is Work In Progress (wip) project but if it makes the sstrides it has been making then dvd res (not quailty!) may be yet on 1 cd!!!

Go here:

http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1076#1076

Baker

[liquid217]

oh no, not this again

[kwag]

Oh yes you can be scepticcal (!) I have seen the results.

Not dvd quailtys, a bit of the background was missing.

This is Work In Progress (wip) project but if it makes the sstrides it has been making then dvd res (not quailty!) may be yet on 1 cd!!!

Go here:

http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1076#1076

Baker

Hi baker:

Not quite the quality "yet", but almost there
Remember, the name in the template, BETA
The amazing thing is the Quantization Matrix. That's what made the difference.
If you want DVD like quality, change the CQ in the template from 50 to 70. I assure you won't be able to tell the difference from the original DVD. But then you'll have 2 CD-R's per movie

kwag

[poonaner]

I just downloaded the matrix sample thing from the KVCD site and what can i say. I am at a loss for words it just looks outstanding!

[kwag]

Hell, I can't believe it myself!.
I'm encoding the full thing right now, just to see the final file size at the quality of that sample, and I'm at 57% done with a file size is 405MB

I just can't believe that the file size will finish way under 800MB!

kwag

[flaninacupboard]

hmm, ive seen one or two templates like this before, and have tried playing with GOP lengths myself. my initial impressionhas always been "a singular I frame followed by a few seconds of just b and p frames? but that's how divx works!!" although jusdging by your matrix sample the quantisisation amtrix is fairly advanced. im testing it with some clips myself. my only crticism is that your matrix sample is letterboxed, yet not anamorphic. im testing a clip as anamorphic, and ill see how that ends up.

[rackaboy]

even with this template, there is problem with it on my pioneer 636d.. I've post my solution on kwag forum.. (if you have a pioneer/audio skip)

8)

[Kdiddy]

Why would putting a video a DVD res on a CD be a breakthrough. You can put any res you like on 1 CD, Im missing the importance of this all?

[bbb]

Do show and tell when you get to DVD quality and resolution on 1 movie/cdr.

No need to hype beforehand.

Oh, let's see a high motion scene (explosions, etc) clip next time.

[kwag]

Do show and tell when you get to DVD quality and resolution on 1 movie/cdr.

No need to hype beforehand.

Oh, let's see a high motion scene (explosions, etc) clip next time.

Here's your ultra high action ( water splash ) scene
http://www.kvcd.net/splash.mpg

kwag

[bbb]

I see blocks aplenty in the water spray as well as in the river. Is the movie Raw Deal?

How about doing an explosion scene?

How about doing the same clip using 352x480 just to make block comparisons.

[kwag]

I see blocks aplenty in the water spray as well as in the river. Is the movie Raw Deal?

How about doing an explosion scene?

How about doing the same clip using 352x480 just to make block comparisons.

Burn it and view it in your DVD player. You won't see blocks on a regular TV.
Even on a HDTV they are barely visible. Hell, I even notice the blocks on the DVD in my HDTV in that scene, if I pause of course! Which of course results in small blocks on the final mpeg.
I wish I could get my hands on some BetaMax Digital footage for testing 8)

The sample is from Undersiege 2. I tried at 352x480. The blocks are more visible, because they are larger.
But the sharpness at 704x480 is excelent. I like it far better than 352x480 or 480x480.
The funny thing is that the MAX bit rate in the template is only 2,000Kbps. The quality is really produced by the Quantization Matrix. The standard TMPEG templates produce a very blocky mess in that scene at that bit rate.

kwag

[El_Mero_Zooter]

dvd quality on one cdr at 704x480,,
ahhhhh,,
that'll never work,


ztr

Q-VO's

[baker]

Looks like I will have to jump onto El_Mero_Zooter's boat and say that its a bit too hard! Perhaps with too cds but not with one.

With cce it should be easibilly possible as if tmpegenc can produce these results cce will slaughter them.

Baker

[e-z-e]

Is this actually as good as you guys say it is?

[bilbogod]

LOL.....only been away for approx 10 days and the world cup is already being overshadowed by more important events.

[baker]

The gop structure is a good'un but (plz take no offence kwag) but his templet aint really that good on one cd. But for 2cds it's absoloutly F"""""" faboulous!!!

Remember i was taling about trying to do this a while back?sefy will remember, we said it was impossible. But I have been proved wrong.

Kwags templet maybe good but I am going to create a guide when I am ready for putting dvd (yes dvd) quailty on 2 cds. thats 48hz audio 720x576 video and all other dvd standards so when it comes to it no further encodin wiull be needed for dvd!AND ALL ON 2 CDS!!!!!

Baker

[bbb]

Assuming that this template+GOP structure is further improved. Will the GOP structure permit DVD compatibility?

I think this issue is important for a lot of people who intend to move onto DVD recordable media in the future.

Someone (using current DVD burners)should be testing the dominant templates and encoding settings to check for current DVD compatibility.

[vhelp]

Evening all (night) . . .

sheesh! I don't speak OR read German!!
* http://www.dvd-svcd-forum.de/phorum/ikonboard.cgi
I went to this site above, looking for template to try out on one
of my ANALOG captures from satalite, but all this stuff is in
German. Kwag, I didn't know you were German OR, speak/read
German. Oh, well.

Welp, ...couldn't go w/out a V-Review, he, he...
.
.
Kwag, I did D/L you sample (thank you) and I did try it!!
my CONS:
* in media player in NT at work, you could see GREEN on top of
the video, sort of like it was bleeding GREEN, he, he....
* looks like you may have used some smoothers/temperals on
these clips. I don't get it. Why do you use them on DVD source??
OH, wait, i get it... cause you're trying to save on bits/per/size/
per cd. Got it! he, he...

my PROS:
* I liked the sharpness, not that it's sharp, mind you. But,
if WAS 704x480, and not 352x480. So, naturally, you're gonna
see better quality w/ respect to the higher resolution, he, he...
* you CAN see the blocks
* basically, it's like a SOOPED UP VCD on SERIODS, he, he...

my APEX AD-1500 results:
pros: well, it plays w/ good quality, sharp as a good SVCD
cons: hmmmm!!,
* some blocks, but, hardly noticable!!
* AUDIO, goes in and out, in other works, it studders

kwag, don't take this personal.
question, all you clips seem to play on my AD-1500 w/ audio studdering
and or video studdering, but mostly audio. I'm wondering if it's
the GOP, but just in your encodes ...cause, cause whne i do them
in my encoder, i don't get the studdering, etc.

Yes, kwag, i know, i know, its just a BETA!! ...a work in progress...
But, what would be more challenging is if someone would stick to the
standars, VCD, or SVCD, well, forget DVD, cause you already GOT the
DVD

Things to work on (based on Apex AD-1500) :
* audio studdering
* video studdering

Well, all I can say is, Keep on chucken!!

-vhelp

[bugande]

Do you think if the Quantization Matrix from your template was used in a standard vcd template that the quality would be better than the standard vcd?

[Chris X]

According 2 PowerDVD and CD Creater 5.1 platinum. The Video Bitrate on the two clips posted above is of a bitrate over 100mbps each. This is not compatable with any DVD player that I know of.

The Max bitrate for a DVD is 9.8mbps.

[El_Mero_Zooter]

vhelp

on the apex 1500, and some other apex models like the ad-600a, the audio stutters. Its not the template, but the res.
352x480 or 704x480 wont work with the apex without the audio stuttering or video jerk at different intervals.
Kwag's template works on the 1500 if u change the res to 352x240.
I'm testing his so called template, , for a patch for the 1500 at 704 and no audio probs..


ztr

[thxkid]

Forget the APEX's, nice cheap machines for the basic VCD and SVCD.

You want power, try it on a Daewoo 5700 or 5800, I burn 704x480 at 3000 to 7000 bitrates all the time and this standalone plays them perfect and at the 5000 to 7000 bitrate, block free

[baker]

I have edited kwags templet to go on 2cds And have dvd gop structure AND dvd resouloution AND dvd audio quailty!!!I have pinnoy2201 testing it at the mmoment, but if it works like it should then I should have all the pros and NO cons.

pros:
dvd quailty picture and audio
future compatiblity.
very very very few blocks.
no quailty loss (i hope to use mpeg 2)

cons:
2cds(is that really a con?)

Baker

[kwag]

I have edited kwags templet to go on 2cds And have dvd gop structure AND dvd resouloution AND dvd audio quailty!!!I have pinnoy2201 testing it at the mmoment, but if it works like it should then I should have all the pros and NO cons.

pros:
dvd quailty picture and audio
future compatiblity.
very very very few blocks.
no quailty loss (i hope to use mpeg 2)

cons:
2cds(is that really a con?)

Baker

2 CD it's not really a con with the new template, considering that to get a similar ( but not as sharp ) quality in a SVCD you would need about 3 or 4 CD's

But if I could get my hands on a 99 minute CD-R, just by using CQ=65 in the new template, should still fit 120+ minutes of video

Hope anyone has one of those 99 minute CD's and could try it out.
Because it's really sad when you get up to change CD's on a 3 CD movie, only to find out that CD #2 is missing

kwag

[baker]

Just to let people know I have got to the stage with mpeg 2 on 2 cds at dvd quailty and dvd quailt audio BUT future compliance is causeing a pain to me!!!

HAS ANYBODY GOT A DVD BURNER AND TRIED T USE A GOP STRUCTURE LONGER THAN 15 FRAMES!!!! IF I GET THIS WORKING I MAY ACTUALLY BE HAPPY FOR ONCE!

Baker

[smokingweed3000]

hey baker could u send me that edited template so i could take a look at it. whoisyourdady@hotmail.com or aol (im on right now) my sn is smokingweed3000.
Thanks a lot

[baker]

A lot of people have been asking for my templet. the mpeg 1 version can be found at www.kvcd.net and I havent tweeked my version enough to let it out yet, its still a bit too big! sorry!

Baker

[flaninacupboard]

seems my reaction of "it's just Divx" is pretty accurate. if you look at the posted matrix clip, at the left at the top of the image (inside the black bar) when we see morpheus you will notice green fuzz accumulate, then disappear, then accumulate, then disappear, just like Divx......
although it may have one application, using it for DVD-R burns, with an average bitrate of around 2.5mbps you could comfortablyfit two moveis per disc, assuming you authored the disc asa dvd disc with mpeg1 video on it. the other advantage of that, is you will want to deinterlace the video before encoding to mpeg (no interlace support) so when you eventually buy a progressive scan telly (or watch it on your computer) they'll look really nice.

[vhelp]

El_Mero_Zooter,

Oh, right, ummmm, back to your response to mine. The template
(or GOP settings) in kwags template is not my problem with the
audio studdering. Please believe me. It's just a matter of
who, and how its done on the other end. Cause I CAN DO IT on my
encodes, and NOT have any studderings. So, it's really a matter
of kwags clips that ALWAYS causes audio to studder, BUT, when
I do it, I have NO audio studders. So. . .
THE APEX AD-1500 has no problems. Again, the Apex AD-1500 has
no audio studdering with these GOPS!! IT does work on the AD-1500's.
he, he...
I do have a theory though, that the cause of studders, is due to
his using the smoother or temporal in his encodes of these clips.
But, the only way to be sure, is to use his template that used
on those two clips in this thread (page 1, he, he... ) but, there
not there, and I don't speak/read GERMAN.

So, basically, the APEX's are great (cheap) machines, that can
handle just about anything thing, just that it's bitrate limit is
4000.

I'd love to see more sample clips on this, as I haven't seen
any yet, since yesterday.

-vhelp