120 mins + 1 cd + DVD RES!!!!!!!

[kwag]

Kdidy said:

A little note, resolution has absolutely NO effect on file size. That is strictly a matter of bitrate.

FINALLY! I've read all 80 of these posts hoping someone would finally say this!

I have heard some saying that you shouldn't use these high, dvd-type resolutions because there is not enough bits per pixel. I always use 704 x 480 and it works perfectly, but I don't know if that would change if using just one cd.

Sorry to pop in. But just my note:
Resolution has NO effect in file size ONLY IF you are using constant bit rate.
When using CQ mode, there IS a difference, because the compression algorithms are dealing with different quantities of pixels to maintain quality.

kwag

[Plant_Guy]

Baker,

The answer to that is no! Reason: If you have a movie that is 2hrs. long, and maybe 30% of it is low motion, then you will have plenty of bytes left over on your 3 CD's to carry you through the high motion scenes. This implies that you widen your minimum and maximum bitrates. Using CBR would simply waste needed bandwith on low motion scenes IMHO. In summary, I would try leaving the average bitrate alone, and lower the minimum bitrate, and raise the max., ie. 1600min, 2100avg, and 2500max as a starter for experimentation. I mean really, if you have a scene that consists of an empty doctor's waiting room for 30 seconds, why would you waste 2300bits on it?

TomG. - aka Plant_Guy

[vcd2002a]

I and kwag have been on the CQ topic before. TMPGEnc seems to best distribute bits using CQ settings. That is why KVCD has been like that all the time. CBR or 2-pass VBR will not give you the same results at comparable bit rate. kwag found the magic long time ago. I just realized this fact recently. Another magic kwag found out was that TMPGEnc handles MPEG1 (not MPEG2) better than other mpeg2 encoders, at 352x480 or 704x480, with bit rate below 2000Kbps.

[baker]

I would try leaving the average bitrate alone, and lower the minimum bitrate, and raise the max., ie. 1600min, 2100avg, and 2500max as a starter for experimentation

My minimum must be 2000 for dvd standards, other wise it won't work on dvd players.

baker

[Plant_Guy]

OK, you win. 2000min, 2100avg, 2500max. How about it? Any way you slice it, I think you should go with a minimally compressed file and store it on multiple CD's until you decide on the best encoding method. Even better, if your time is at a premium, buy a few 120GB HD's and play your stuff from the computer by using a stereo RF modulator and pipe the output to every TV in the house That way, you only need the compression if you take something to a friend's house.

TomG. - aka Plant_Guy

[t0nito]

I just downloaded the matrix sample thing from the KVCD site and what can i say. I am at a loss for words it just looks outstanding!

I went to kwag's site and couldn't find the sample! Where is it?

[baker]

I just downloaded the matrix sample thing from the KVCD site and what can i say. I am at a loss for words it just looks outstanding!

Well look at the two cd sample and you will see dvd quailty!!!

Also kwag what did you use, higest quailty, high quailty or normal quailty?

I am going for cq 2000-2450 q@65 to be fair I don't really understand that q thing so kwag will 65 do for my encoding or should I decrease/increase it?

Also A lot of people have mailed me asking for this templet, would you please host it for me when I am finished, it won't take up much room.

Baker

[kwag]

I just downloaded the matrix sample thing from the KVCD site and what can i say. I am at a loss for words it just looks outstanding!

Well look at the two cd sample and you will see dvd quailty!!!

Also kwag what did you use, higest quailty, high quailty or normal quailty?

I am going for cq 2000-2450 q@65 to be fair I don't really understand that q thing so kwag will 65 do for my encoding or should I decrease/increase it?

Also A lot of people have mailed me asking for this templet, would you please host it for me when I am finished, it won't take up much room.

Baker

That sample was done with the two CD NTSC template that's already posted at kvcd's site in the main page.
It was encoded with the template "as is".
No changes made.
The complete "Matrix" at that quality came out to 1,263,405KB just perfect for 2 CD's with room to spare. Perfect for two 74 minute CD-R's

kwag

[Kdiddy]

Again, resolution has no MAJOR EFFECT on filesize. No, 820 MB vs, 823 MB is not a major difference, 820 MB vs. 640 MB is a major difference.

The differences with respect to CQ enviroment comes from bitrate. In order retain the same repective quality on a larger resolutions is going to require more bitrate, thus for the larger resolution the average bitrate will be higher in a CQ environment. When comparing filesizes of clips done at unequal bitrates, one should expect a change in size. Thus what you are getting a filesize change due to bitrate as I stated earlier and not resolution.

[kwag]

@Kdiddy

You are correct. I should have added to my statement above:

When using CQ mode, there IS a difference, because the compression algorithms are dealing with different quantities of pixels to maintain quality, and the higher the resolution, the more bit rate is needed to maintain a constant quality. So with CQ mode, if you maintain CQ at a constant value, the higher the resolution, the larger the file size.

kwag

[baker]

IF ANYBODY WANTS MY TEMPLET FOR GETTING 3-4 MOVIES ON A DVD-R WITHOUT QUAILTY LOSS THEN E-MAIL ME.

Baker

[JackDudd]

Ok I encoded The One(right this time) --> 440 Mb with good quality, AMAZING, but in the scene where sparks fly all over the screen the mpeg becomes jerky. Why is this and is it possible to fix this.

This is what I used:
352x576 encoded with THE ( ) template for TMPGEnc

[e-z-e]

Minor problem: what good movies are under 120 min ? Antitrust for one.... Help me out here

[Plant_Guy]

Well, Carnosaur for one

TomG. - aka Plant_Guy

[baker]

most films are 120mins as this is where the human brain starts to get board!

My 3 cd templet is brilliant and a few ppl with dvd burners are saying a lot for it also.

If you want it just mail me asking for it!

Baker

[Bud]

Baker,

Exactely what would I have to change in your template to make it NTSC compliant, I'm not that up on this stuff. Many thanks

[kwag]

most films are 120mins as this is where the human brain starts to get board!

My 3 cd templet is brilliant and a few ppl with dvd burners are saying a lot for it also.

If you want it just mail me asking for it!

Baker

Baker,
I do have a question. If your template is a 3 CD template, that means that each movie takes a max size of 2.4GB. 800MB * 3 = 2.4GB.
Now, if a 4.7 GB DVD-R's maximum writable size is actually 4.3GB, then how is it that you say that you put 3 or 4 movies in a DVD-R?
My math tells me that it's actually 1.X movie in one DVD-R, or am I wrong?

kwag

[Plant_Guy]

Kwag,

Your mathematics are not three dimensional, that's why three movies don't fit! All you have to do is record them on top of each other using the Z-axis and you'll be fine! Hope this helps.

TomG. - aka Plant_Guy

[kwag]

Kwag,

Your mathematics are not three dimensional, that's why three movies don't fit! All you have to do is record them on top of each other using the Z-axis and you'll be fine! Hope this helps.

TomG. - aka Plant_Guy

Can't wait for that holographic Z-axis DVD player to stack them up!. With virtual reality sensors too.
Then sit back and watch "Girl's Gone Wild' Opps, I mean "Gone with the wind"

kwag

[baker]

kwag,

My god my cheeks are red I fell like a ******* ejit and I am sorry to anybody I have annoyed!!!

MY god what a dipstick!!!

I did the math and got 3.2 or somethig and I dont know how I got that! Im must have mistakingly added a bit or somethinf.

sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry


I am extremely sory!!!

Baker

[kwag]

Hi Baker,

Just lower your beer rate Ooops, I mean, BIT rate

kwag

[baker]

I can't lower the bitrate as 2000 is minimum for a dvd

But since most movies are a mix of fast and slow motion I have been getting around 2100megs per movie so should get at least 2 movies per dvd.

I am going to write out a pros/cons for each templet so everybody know whats for them.

Baker

[baker]

Information about kwag templets:

NAME OF TEMPLET = KVCD
NO. OF CD'S = 1
PICTURE QUAILTY = VERY GOOD
RESOULOUTION = 352X576/352X288
BLOCKS = NONE OR VERY LITTLE
NOTES = GOOD TEMPLET SUTIBLE FOR PUTING A 2CD VCD ON ONE CD

NAME OF TEMPLET = KVCDX2
NO. OF CD'S = 1
PICTURE QUAILTY = GOOD
RESOULOUTION = 720X576
BLOCKS = A GOOD FEW
NOTES = GOOD RES, HOWEVER BLOCKS ARE EVIDENT.

NAME OF TEMPLET = KVCDX2
NO. OF CD'S = 2
PICTURE QUAILTY = BRILIANT.
RESOULOUTION = 720X576
BLOCKS = VERY VERY FEW.
NOTES = GOOD RES, FABOULOUS TEMPLET ONLY 2CDS.HOWEVER HAS FUZZ.

NAME OF TEMPLET = BVD
NO. OF CD'S = 3
PICTURE QUAILTY = EXCELLENT
RESOULOUTION = 720X576
BLOCKS = HARDLY ANY AT ALL.
NOTES = MY VARIENT OF THE TEMPLET WHICH IS DVD COMPATIBLE AND THE BEST QUAILTY.

CONCLUSION:
Well BVD is the best quailty, almost exactly like the original DVD. It is also dvd compatible which means in the future when DVD-r's become more affordable insted of having to re-encode your films to put them on a dvd all which would have to be done is copy the files to a dvd authoring program and burn. KVCD is becoming a bit useless now with the new kvcdx2 templets developing so well however if you want to put a movie on one cd then I reccomend sticking with the kvcd templet as it produces the best one cd results. The one cd kvcdx2 templet isn't that great as there are blocks which are very annoying, however the 2 cd kvcdx2 is great for 2cds brilliant quailty, but isnt future compatible.


Baker

[kwag]

I can't lower the bitrate as 2000 is minimum for a dvd

But since most movies are a mix of fast and slow motion I have been getting around 2100megs per movie so should get at least 2 movies per dvd.

I am going to write out a pros/cons for each templet so everybody know whats for them.

Baker

Just kidding baker

You can set the MIN bit rate to 2000 and the MAX to 4000, but change your resolution to 352x480 ( half D1 ) and play with the CQ.
That's basically what Panasonic did with the DMR-E20 DVD-R/DVD-RAM recorder. In 4 hour mode, it records at 352x480 MPEG-2, and it's near DVD quality. In 6 hour mode, it sucks!, as it records at 352x240 MPEG-2 and it looks like a poor MPEG-1 VCD.
So the best time that can be encoded in a 4.7GB DVD is 4 hours.
That's without compromising quality. Lower than that, we might as well use VCD's.

kwag

[e-z-e]

Baker,

What's all this talk about not having to re-encode for future DVD-r compatibility? My DVD player plays CD-rs now. When DVD-rs become cheaper, my player won't stop reading CD-rs...at least I hope not.

[baker]

Baker,

What's all this talk about not having to re-encode for future DVD-r compatibility? My DVD player plays CD-rs now. When DVD-rs become cheaper, my player won't stop reading CD-rs...at least I hope not.

IN the future I dont want to have a mixed movie collection, all dvd. But until dvd becomes cheeper i have to stick with bvd. Plus I want the highest compatibility possible and possbily the higest compatibility with a dvd player is going to be a dvd!

Just kidding baker

You can set the MIN bit rate to 2000 and the MAX to 4000, but change your resolution to 352x480 ( half D1 ) and play with the CQ.
That's basically what Panasonic did with the DMR-E20 DVD-R/DVD-RAM recorder. In 4 hour mode, it records at 352x480 MPEG-2, and it's near DVD quality. In 6 hour mode, it sucks!, as it records at 352x240 MPEG-2 and it looks like a poor MPEG-1 VCD.
So the best time that can be encoded in a 4.7GB DVD is 4 hours.
That's without compromising quality. Lower than that, we might as well use VCD's.

kwag

352x576 isnt dvd quailty, close, but not dvd quailty. I want full d1 720x576 . 3 cds is a lot but its better than 352x576.

Baker

[baker]

I just found a cce q. matrix patcher!!! The possibilitlies are endless!!!

I would say that my bvd templet may now go on 2 cds or less!!

Baker

[baker]

I just found a cce q. matrix patcher!!! The possibilitlies are endless!!!

I would say that my bvd templet may now go on 2 cds or less!!

Baker

[baker]

I just found a cce q. matrix patcher!!! The possibilitlies are endless!!!

I would say that my bvd templet may now go on 2 cds or less!!

Baker

[odyssius98]

Hi kwag and baker,

Thanks for your great work. I wish I found this template earlier.

I have just one question:

To fit 120m in one 80m CDR (700MB), the average bit rate should be about 800kbps. I just did a 115m movie using KVCD NTSC template (not KVCDx2), and I didn't change anything, which means 352x480, CQ=70, audio = 128, ....

I got the file size 1G, which is impossible to fit in one CD-R. And I use the bitrate viewer to see the average bitrate is a little higher than 1000kbps.


So I just wanna confirm what you mean 120 mins in one CD. Is that for most of the movies? My movie is not an Action Movie, no explosive scenes or some special effect.

Thanks