120 mins + 1 cd + DVD RES!!!!!!!

I´ll ask this one again.......

I tried your templace yesterday but was very surprised to see the audio settings 128K Dual Channel !!!

With Dual this means 2 completely idependant channels with only 64K each mmm does not sound good to me

The sound must be crap?or people using this template must be deaf. (or listening to it through shitty PC speakers)

I would never go down this low with the audio bitrate but if I did,would it not be better to use Joint Stereo(I would even say this bitrate would not be good for the Stereo setting either)?? You may lose some of the stereo seperation(or pro-logic info) but it would make better use of the bitrate......

from doom....... read this its good info :P

Stereo
In this mode, the encoder makes no use of potentially existing correlations between the two input channels. It can, however, negotiate the bit demand between both channel, i.e. give one channel more bits if the other contains silence or needs less bits because of a lower complexity.

Dual channel
In this mode, the 2 channels will be totally independently encoded. Each channel will have exactly half of the bitrate. This mode is designed for applications like dual languages encoding (ex: English in one channel an French in the other). Using this encoding mode for regular stereo files will result in a lower quality encoding.

Joint stereo
In this mode, the encoder will make use of a correlation between both channels in order to achieve higher compression. This will enhance the quality of constant bitrate recordings, and reduce the size of variable bitrate recordings.

I dont to be completely negative towards this template, but I think a standard VCD encode with 224K sound looks and sounds better and much more compatable also with 90min CDs you can fit around 95 mins of VCD so most movies fit on 1 CD. 8)

I´ll ask this one again.......

I tried your templace yesterday but was very surprised to see the audio settings 128K Dual Channel !!!

With Dual this means 2 completely idependant channels with only 64K each mmm does not sound good to me

The sound must be crap?or people using this template must be deaf. (or listening to it through shitty PC speakers)

I would never go down this low with the audio bitrate but if I did,would it not be better to use Joint Stereo(I would even say this bitrate would not be good for the Stereo setting either)?? You may lose some of the stereo seperation(or pro-logic info) but it would make better use of the bitrate......

from doom....... read this its good info

Stereo
In this mode, the encoder makes no use of potentially existing correlations between the two input channels. It can, however, negotiate the bit demand between both channel, i.e. give one channel more bits if the other contains silence or needs less bits because of a lower complexity.

Dual channel
In this mode, the 2 channels will be totally independently encoded. Each channel will have exactly half of the bitrate. This mode is designed for applications like dual languages encoding (ex: English in one channel an French in the other). Using this encoding mode for regular stereo files will result in a lower quality encoding.

Joint stereo
In this mode, the encoder will make use of a correlation between both channels in order to achieve higher compression. This will enhance the quality of constant bitrate recordings, and reduce the size of variable bitrate recordings.

I dont want to be completely negative towards this template, but I think a standard VCD encode with 224K sound, looks and sounds better and much more compatable also with 90min CDs you can fit around 90-95 mins of VCD so most movies fit on 1 CD. 8)

Dont ask me why the above was posted twice??

[energy80s]

I think the idea behind the Dual Channel Audio was to preserve the Dolby Surround info which gets lost if you use joint stereo. But I agree that anything below 192k dual channel sounds like shite. If you aren't worried about surround sound then encode with 128/160 js. If you want the surround info intact then bump up the audio bitrate (and file size) and encode in dual channel mode.

exact energy 80!

[baker]

This is geting very ,very annoying!!

Why won't it play!

Its just an mpeg file only this time its on a cd insted of a dvd!!

Maybe its the high bitrate you used?

Baker

[JackDudd]

Did anyone really managed to fit 120 min on 1 CD with a 352x576 res. Wouldn't the file get really big with that res.??

[baker]

@ JackDudd


Go to www.kvcd.net

Baker[/u]

[holistic]

"After every storm, if you look hard enough a rainbow appears", Mariah Carey

Damm after getting 12 million to "shut up" and "get lost" - I'd even write and sing a song about rainbows

Quite the POT OF GOLD she got



......................now back to your local programming

[JackDudd]

hi Baker,
I've been to that site and downloaded the templates, but my file gets way too big to fit on one CD. I encoded 1 min and it got 8 Mb's or so. Could you give me a direct link to the template you are using to fit 120 min on 1 CD in 352x576 res

[baker]

well jack make sure that you are using the latest verion of tmpegenc and that your source is clean like dvd.

baker

[e-z-e]

And for those of you that are intrested that pic on the left is my head on the scanner!

What pic on the left?

[baker]

hey kwag,

if 720x576 in dvd quailty with dvd compatibility is impossible how about 352x576 on one cd with dvd quailty and dvd compatibility, is that impossible?

Baker

[JackDudd]

I'm totally confused here; what res. do you guys use with the www.kvcd.net templates, cause mine keep getting too big. I use the 1 CD template with 352x576 as res. 1 min = 4 mb video Should the res be lower or something?

[baker]

Do your math jack!!!!!

with an 80 min cd you can fit 790mbs of vcd.

1 min = 4 mb video 120mins of video only equals 480mbs!!! Thats amazingly small file size.

Now what the hell are you giving out about?

Baker

[Kdiddy]

JacK:

A little note, resolution has absolutely NO effect on file size. That is strictly a matter of bitrate.

[vitualis]

I think the idea behind the Dual Channel Audio was to preserve the Dolby Surround info which gets lost if you use joint stereo. But I agree that anything below 192k dual channel sounds like shite. If you aren't worried about surround sound then encode with 128/160 js. If you want the surround info intact then bump up the audio bitrate (and file size) and encode in dual channel mode.

Or you can just encode to ordinary stereo!! You won't get the loss of stereo separation (and hence Dolby Surround encoding) as with low bitrate joint stereo but it is still more efficient that dual channel.

There will be a little bit of give and take.

I'm mildly amused here that people are trying to push video quality to the max while significantly sacrificing the audio quality (e.g., dual channel MP2 at 128 kbit/s). A good movie experience includes both the video and audio!

Regards.

[myke]

I've did a few encodes with this template but I used 352X240 res. everything else was the same.
Mrs. Doubtfire 2hrs5 min file size 570MB
The Parent Trap 2hrs 8min 761MB
Willy Wonka 1 hr 40min 644MB
I own these dvd's for my kids we don't mind the video quality of these vcd movies but it's not close to dvd might be close to vhs quality, but a vcd can be cheaply replaced where as their dvd's get expensive. They don't have to bother changing disks either. They play real well in my apex-3201 also I don't know how compatible they are with other standalones.

[kwag]

I've did a few encodes with this template but I used 352X240 res. everything else was the same.
Mrs. Doubtfire 2hrs5 min file size 570MB
The Parent Trap 2hrs 8min 761MB
Willy Wonka 1 hr 40min 644MB
I own these dvd's for my kids we don't mind the video quality of these vcd movies but it's not close to dvd might be close to vhs quality, but a vcd can be cheaply replaced where as their dvd's get expensive. They don't have to bother changing disks either. They play real well in my apex-3201 also I don't know how compatible they are with other standalones.

Hey Mike,

If you used the templates at 352x240, change the CQ to at least 75.
The quality at 352x240 and CQ=70 is very low. At 352x480 it's better.
With a CQ=80 and 352x240, you should be above VHS quality.

kwag

[JackDudd]

Do your math jack!!!!!

with an 80 min cd you can fit 790mbs of vcd.

1 min = 4 mb video 120mins of video only equals 480mbs!!! Thats amazingly small file size.

Now what the hell are you giving out about?

Baker

Sorry, sorry, sorry, you're right. I thought 1 min had to equal 1 mb on VCD, but it has to equal 10 mb! Sorry, I wasn't thinking clearly, But thanks for your help

[bbb]

Not trying to artificially extend this thread as if having long threads equates to video encoding greatness but,

How do I fit 120 hours in 1 cd DVD Res. Oh by the way, it's a video of television static. I need a GOP structure that won't give me blocks for all 120 hours of static.

[JackDudd]

AAAAAAAARRG!
The One; 1:27 -->891 Mb, Shit, I'll see how I can still make it smaller, like cutting the credits Hope it works, cuz the quality is truly amazing, NOT DVD, but truly amazing!

@ BBB: When you managed to put 120 hours(!) on one CD/DVD in DVD quality please tell me, ok!

[holistic]

hey bbb - 120 hours - are you nuts with a little tweaking you should be able to fit twice that.
Personally i prefer the test pattern

[kwag]

Not trying to artificially extend this thread as if having long threads equates to video encoding greatness but,

How do I fit 120 hours in 1 cd DVD Res. Oh by the way, it's a video of television static. I need a GOP structure that won't give me blocks for all 120 hours of static.

That's easy bbb
Use a GOP of I=1, P=100,000, B=10,000

Then use a frame rate of around 5fp, oh! and "Inverse Telecine" to gain 20% more compression.
Lower your audio to 2Khz ( below telephone quality ) or better yet, single side band
and use a 100-pass VBR with CCE!.

Then light up a J and sit on front of your TV and watch your static VCD ( if it plays at all )

How's that

kwag

[bbb]

A slight problem with those settings ... my cdr started growing pubic hairs.

The thing is the strands are very silky, great making glue-on mustaches.

However, I fear that I will need more of a disguise to appear convincing as Teddy Roosevelt?

Do you think I should start a monocle business as well? Surely, having an ample stock would come in handy.

[kwag]

A slight problem with those settings ... my cdr started growing pubic hairs.

The thing is the strands are very silky, great making glue-on mustaches.

However, I fear that I will need more of a disguise to appear convincing as Teddy Roosevelt?

Do you think I should start a monocle business as well? Surely, having an ample stock would come in handy.

[vcd2002a]

kwag,

I saw your samples. They are excellent. I will follow your way to do DVD backup (I guess I cannot achieve the same results from my home video!)

By reading your posts, I think you are saying MPEG1 with TMPGenc is better than MPEG2 with any encoders at <2000Kbps. Baker has suggested using your template with MPEG2 and 48KHz audio for DVD capatibility. Both are valid points. Which way is better?

KVCDx2 uses 704x480 resolution while DVD is 720x480, only 16 pixels difference. Is it better to use your template with a letter box to make up the difference to make it further closer to DVD?

I did some reading regarding DVD2AVI forced film option. It seems that there are DVDs that are mixture of 23fps and NTSC frames at 29.97fps. Your template uses 23fps. Have you ever run into such problems?

Thanks in advance.

[Plant_Guy]

I've did a few encodes with this template but I used 352X240 res. everything else was the same.
Mrs. Doubtfire 2hrs5 min file size 570MB
The Parent Trap 2hrs 8min 761MB
Willy Wonka 1 hr 40min 644MB
I own these dvd's for my kids we don't mind the video quality of these vcd movies but it's not close to dvd might be close to vhs quality, but a vcd can be cheaply replaced where as their dvd's get expensive. They don't have to bother changing disks either. They play real well in my apex-3201 also I don't know how compatible they are with other standalones.

Myke,

Why don't you re-encode to fill up an ordinary 80min CD? It's just as expensive to fill up a disc as it is to use 3/4 of it! Personally, my new favorite way of doing things is using CDRW's and wiping them after watching the shows. BTW, if anyone is even remotely interested, I found a link regarding TV captures and filters. Catch it here at: http://www.danhendricks.com/index.php?page=capture.html
Kwag, I believe that the reason I do not get the compression and quality that you are getting is my source has a decent amount of noise, and the compression algorithms treat it as a signal full of detail, and that ruins the whole deal right there. If I apply a temporal smoother to kill all the detail, compression ratios soar To Baker who has peppered the thread with questions regarding DVD compatibility, I say this: save your favorite vids. onto multiple cd's with the lightest compression possible without file size getting out of hand (say fit a movie on 4 cd's), and when the formats change, or DVD writers become <$100, reformat to your heart's content. For now, format any way you want so you can enjoy the fruits of your labors today

TomG. - aka Plant_Guy

[Murrdawg045]

Kdidy said:

A little note, resolution has absolutely NO effect on file size. That is strictly a matter of bitrate.

FINALLY! I've read all 80 of these posts hoping someone would finally say this!

I have heard some saying that you shouldn't use these high, dvd-type resolutions because there is not enough bits per pixel. I always use 704 x 480 and it works perfectly, but I don't know if that would change if using just one cd.

[baker]

As you know already I plan to soon get a dvd burner and when I do I don't want to have to re-encode every movie I own as this would take a long time. So I decided that although 3cds is way too much and will be very annoying but that in the long term it will be worth while. So I opened up the dvd templet in tmpgenc and started modifing it. I worked out that my avg bitrate will have to be around 2100 to fit on 3 cds confortably so the first place I went to was the bitrate. The minumum is and was of course 2000 so I couldn't change that and since my avg was going to be around 2100 my max was already 2200 so I am at a loss as to what to do now! I also loaded in your q. matrix and changed the audio to 160 dual channel. I am wondering now if since my bitrate ranges from 2000-2200 will cbr not be a better option for me?

UPDATE:My test results came back and I was very impressed indeed! However high action scenes resulted in blocks so I am now considering on uping the max bitrate to around 2400 or there abouts.

So in short my question is:
From the info above would 2000(UPDATE: now 2350) cbr not be a quicker safer option for me insted of cq?

P.S for those of you with dvd burners you may well be intrested in my templet, it will get you 3-4 movies on one dvd-r in dvd quailty which means that you will save money on those expensive dvd-rs!


Baker