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  1. Swollen Member
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    Ooops. I meant to say LG/Hitachi writer not reader above. Anyways, If drives don't ship in volume until next year perhaps your $200 price (street) will be correct. However, if the drives ship this year, a $350 retail price will not be unexpected.

    The question of DVD Multi vs DVD+MRW is different one though. I don't necessarily think that DVD Multi will have to be cheaper than DVD+MRW to sell more. Maybe that's true and maybe it isn't but it depends upon a number of factors including specs, politics, and user-installed base of the various technologies. The question now remains whether DVD Multi (which is already here, although rare) will sell earlier than DVD+MRW (which doesn't yet exist). Ie. I think timing of widespread release is very important.

    In the meantime I wonder if the 4X Sanyo DVD-R writer will have any significant impact, assuming it stops being vapourware. Sanyo isn't a huge DVD name around here, but I think 4X is the key burn rate for adoption ot the technology. However, at that speed, burns are less than 15 minutes. When the technologies reach that speed, the market will explode.
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  2. Member
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    Panasonic
    Hitachi
    Toshiba
    Pioneer
    Philips
    HP
    Sony
    Ricoh
    LG
    Samsung

    If they have been the ten largest manufacturers of DVD writer drives of any kind, I think Sanyo will be in a position to lead the entire market even though it is a late comer in DVD writing. LG and Samsung are not that interested since they are already doing very well with CD-ROM, CD-RW, DVD-ROM, CD-RW/DVD-ROM, and DVD-Video players at least in terms of market share and revenues. The others have never seriously bothered to compete directly against the Taiwanese and South Korean manufacturers since it just means worse profitability for them. Unless they excel in features, speed, and recording reliability, they will not be able to compete against the makers that care less about profits than market share. The first DVD writer which can offer some alternative to CD writer seems to be Sanyo CRD-DV1. Though there were many DVD-RAM, DVD-RW, and DVD+RW drives, they accounted for under one percent of the total worldwide ODD market while in 2001 and that means DVD recordables have been just ignored by the average PC users and even by most of the CD recording enthusiasts. For now, I'm most interested in Yamaha CRW-F1 44/24/44 CD-MRW and Sanyo CRD-DV1 4/2 DVD-RW drives. Later, Plextor and Yamaha will also migrate into DVD writing and then things will become more interesting and people will discuss with more productive and diversified issues.
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  3. @ Kennyshin: your previous replies to my post didn't make any sense.

    Your link didn't make any sense either. Obviously the DVD Forum is going to promote the products they license. What is your point?

    The issue is not whether DVD+R/W is technically as good as DVD-R/W but whether or not the fact that is is not supported by the DVD Forum will affect its viability.

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
    w: Morsels of Evidence
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  4. One thing I didn't see mentioned in this thread, (I might have missed it) is that Microsoft has officially endorsed DVD+RW for all future versions of Windows. Now there are a lot of Microsoft detractors out there (I am one of them), but no one can deny what type of pull they have in the computer industry.

    LINK: http://www.microsoft.com/winhec/sessions2002/consmstor.asp

    This might be a factor in selecting a DVD Writer if you want official support in your next Windows operating system. (but then again, when the next version of Windows comes out maybe it will be a moot point)
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  5. Swollen Member
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    Originally Posted by RCorman
    One thing I didn't see mentioned in this thread, (I might have missed it) is that Microsoft has officially endorsed DVD+RW for all future versions of Windows. Now there are a lot of Microsoft detractors out there (I am one of them), but no one can deny what type of pull they have in the computer industry.

    LINK: http://www.microsoft.com/winhec/sessions2002/consmstor.asp

    This might be a factor in selecting a DVD Writer if you want official support in your next Windows operating system. (but then again, when the next version of Windows comes out maybe it will be a moot point)
    True, but it should be pointed out that the (IMHO) superior DVD-RAM format for data already is incorporated right into Windows XP. If you want reliable rewritability then just plug in a DVD-RAM drives into a Windows box and it will simply work. This is not true for either CD-MRW or DVD+MRW (which doesn't even exist yet).

    In fact, because of the technical deficiencies of the RW formats (including CD-RW, DVD-RW, and DVD+RW) I am very hesitant to trust my important data to these, even with Mt. Rainier. We all know that packet writing methods have historically been unreliable. I suspect that Mt. Rainier, although a big improvement, is still going to have its problems.

    I suspect that part of the reason Microsoft is pushing DVD+RW Mt. Rainier is because of cost. The discs will be cheaper than DVD-RAM. However, unfortunately, sometimes you get what you pay for.

    I believe that CD-RW, DVD-RW, and DVD+RW are best suited for video and temporary data storage, although even then in the case of temporary data storage, they suffer from limited lifespans for rewritability. And hopefully Microsoft and others don't try to push them as data archival formats because I don't think the technologies are suited for it. DVD-RAM is not the number one choice for archival storage either, but at least for repeated rewrites over a long period of time, the technology is inherently superior to the other rewritable formats.
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  6. Member
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    Originally Posted by vitualis
    @ Kennyshin: your previous replies to my post didn't make any sense.

    Your link didn't make any sense either. Obviously the DVD Forum is going to promote the products they license. What is your point?

    The issue is not whether DVD+R/W is technically as good as DVD-R/W but whether or not the fact that is is not supported by the DVD Forum will affect its viability.

    Regards.
    Yeah. As Apple can dictate to Intel about what the next PC standards will be. Or TeamDDR can decide the fate of Rambus and Samsung?
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  7. Member
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    Originally Posted by Eug
    Originally Posted by RCorman
    One thing I didn't see mentioned in this thread, (I might have missed it) is that Microsoft has officially endorsed DVD+RW for all future versions of Windows. Now there are a lot of Microsoft detractors out there (I am one of them), but no one can deny what type of pull they have in the computer industry.

    LINK: http://www.microsoft.com/winhec/sessions2002/consmstor.asp

    This might be a factor in selecting a DVD Writer if you want official support in your next Windows operating system. (but then again, when the next version of Windows comes out maybe it will be a moot point)
    True, but it should be pointed out that the (IMHO) superior DVD-RAM format for data already is incorporated right into Windows XP. If you want reliable rewritability then just plug in a DVD-RAM drives into a Windows box and it will simply work. This is not true for either CD-MRW or DVD+MRW (which doesn't even exist yet).

    In fact, because of the technical deficiencies of the RW formats (including CD-RW, DVD-RW, and DVD+RW) I am very hesitant to trust my important data to these, even with Mt. Rainier. We all know that packet writing methods have historically been unreliable. I suspect that Mt. Rainier, although a big improvement, is still going to have its problems.

    I suspect that part of the reason Microsoft is pushing DVD+RW Mt. Rainier is because of cost. The discs will be cheaper than DVD-RAM. However, unfortunately, sometimes you get what you pay for.

    I believe that CD-RW, DVD-RW, and DVD+RW are best suited for video and temporary data storage, although even then in the case of temporary data storage, they suffer from limited lifespans for rewritability. And hopefully Microsoft and others don't try to push them as data archival formats because I don't think the technologies are suited for it. DVD-RAM is not the number one choice for archival storage either, but at least for repeated rewrites over a long period of time, the technology is inherently superior to the other rewritable formats.
    What about this? Philips and Ricoh to produce DVD Multi drives and Pioneer and Panasonic to produce DVD+MRW drives that can also write to DVD-RAM as well. What do you think will happen?

    Microsoft's support for DVD+MRW and Mt. Rainier is more to do with replacing DVD-RW with DVD+MRW rather than anything to do with DVD-RAM. For now, I don't see any prospect of DVD-RAM media to become as cheap as CD-R by 2003.
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  8. Swollen Member
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    I don't see Philips producing DVD-Multi drives. (For those who don't know, these are drives that read or read/write DVD-RAM, DVD-RW, and DVD-R.) It is possible that Panasonic will produce DVD-Multi drives, and as you know LG/Hitachi has already begun manufacturing them. I don't see the point of building combo DVD-RAM/DVD+MRW drives, because DVD-RAM is inherently superior to DVD+MRW anyway for data purposes, so it would just be a waste of money IMO.

    Microsoft's support for DVD+MRW and Mt. Rainier is more to do with replacing DVD-RW with DVD+MRW rather than anything to do with DVD-RAM. For now, I don't see any prospect of DVD-RAM media to become as cheap as CD-R by 2003.
    I agree. Mind you I don't see DVD+RW or DVD-RW media being as cheap as CD-R either by 2003. Also, DVD-RAM will likely be somewhat more expensive than DVD+RW and DVD-RW then. However, like I said in my previous post, cost is not the only issue. One of the reasons that DVD-RAM costs more is because it is built as a data format and there is an emphasis on reliability. And as we all know, better technology often costs more.
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  9. Member
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    Originally Posted by Eug
    I don't see Philips producing DVD-Multi drives. (For those who don't know, these are drives that read or read/write DVD-RAM, DVD-RW, and DVD-R.) It is possible that Panasonic will produce DVD-Multi drives, and as you know LG/Hitachi has already begun manufacturing them. I don't see the point of building combo DVD-RAM/DVD+MRW drives, because DVD-RAM is inherently superior to DVD+MRW anyway for data purposes, so it would just be a waste of money IMO.

    Microsoft's support for DVD+MRW and Mt. Rainier is more to do with replacing DVD-RW with DVD+MRW rather than anything to do with DVD-RAM. For now, I don't see any prospect of DVD-RAM media to become as cheap as CD-R by 2003.
    I agree. Mind you I don't see DVD+RW or DVD-RW media being as cheap as CD-R either by 2003. Also, DVD-RAM will likely be somewhat more expensive than DVD+RW and DVD-RW then. However, like I said in my previous post, cost is not the only issue. One of the reasons that DVD-RAM costs more is because it is built as a data format and there is an emphasis on reliability. And as we all know, better technology often costs more.
    Not always. Sometimes better technologies cost less due to intelligent strategy and concentrated efforts.

    It is possible 4x or 5x DVD+RW rewritable media price will remain above 40 or 50 cents per disk. However, there is NO reason I can see why 6x or 8x DVD+R price should remain higher than that of CD-R by 2003. It took not a year but a few months for the price of DVD-R to fall from $5 to 99 cents. The manufacturing process is almost identical. DVD disks don't weigh a lot more than CD disks. Writing speed helps increase of sales and production which brings the cost further down since people will consume a lot more disks if they can record a full 4.7GB in 20 or 10 minutes instead of waiting for a full hour or swapping seven or eight disks to do the same job and that is why I believe the average price of DVD+R and DVD+RW will become lower than that of CD-R and CD-RW respectively. Not 2004, by then, I'll not feel much need for any DVD writer anyway.

    A little different with DVD-RW since DVD+RW specification was from the start more oriented towards rewritability or so-called "EasyWrite" which will make it more popular than DVD-RW.
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