Which type of DVD Writer should I buy?

[Bob Pierce]

Hello.

I hope you have patience with a bloke from the states who only occasionally has problems with English! I am about to purchase a DVD burner (in the next few days or weeks) to edit some precious family digital video. I've bought a Hewlett Packard Pavilion desktop with 500 meg RAM and a 1.8 Pentium 4 processor just for this purpose. Does anyone have an opinion - preferably somewhat informed - as to which of the following new DVD writers might be the best bet?

Sony DRU-120A (internal - would have to extract one of my CD frives)

Sony DRX-120L (external and not avalable until June)

HP DVD200XI (internal - replace a CD drive again)

HP ??? (external version of DVD200XI)

Both writes will be able to write DVD+RW and DVD+R discs.
I understand Sony's NeoDVD software is easiest to use, but that the HP products with Sonic MyDVD might possibly be a safer bet with my HP computer, and the HP software includes a Photo Slide Show creator that I could also use.

Thank you in advance ...
Stateside

[Eug]

Either a DVD-RW/-R drive or a DVD+RW/+R drive will do, but it seems you want the latter.

In that case you may have to wait a bit to get an external drive, or else you could buy an internal drive with a 3rd party Firewire enclosure. You'd also have to get a Firewire card for your computer. USB 2 is also an option, but currently USB 2 is a bit immature so I'd recommend Firewire over USB 2.

Check my sig for some general info.

[xiaNaix]

Are you sure you want to go with the + format? I'm sure this will start a lengthy flamewar but be advised that the DVD Forum, the group responsible for licensing the DVD format, has issued a warning...

RW is not the DVD Format created and authorized by the DVD Forum. Likewise, although strikingly similar in appearance to the DVD-RW, there is no DVD Format called DVD+RW or +RW among the Formats created and authorized by the DVD Forum.

Those involved in the DVD should be advised that there is No DVD Logo to represent +RW or DVD+RW technology authorized by the DVD Forum or approved by DVD FLLC. There is No Verification Process for +RW or DVD+RW products authorized by the DVD Forum. There is No Verification Laboratory authorized by the DVD Forum to test +RW or DVD+RW products. There is No Test Specifications for +RW or DVD+RW products authorized by the DVD Forum and available at DVD FLLC.

Please also be advised, therefore, that DVD Format/Logo Licensing Corporation(DVD FLLC) is not in a position to accept and respond to any inquiry, questions nor offer a license regarding the +RW or DVD+RW technology. DVD FLLC does not represent, guarantee nor state the quality or appropriateness of the above-mentioned technology. Also, there is no guarantee for compatibility between the products employing the DVD Forum-approved Formats and the products employing the +RW or DVD+RW tecnology.

The Licensees of the DVD Format/Logo License should be reminded that the use of the DVD Logo is permitted solely in accordance with the DVD Format/Logo License Agreement.

Note, in particular, the part which states "there is no guarantee for compatibility between the products employing the DVD Forum-approved Formats and the products employing the +RW or DVD+RW tecnology."

Also note that the DVD Forum's "verification is required for DVD products marketed under the DVD Logo. The Verification process assures the consumers that products bearing the DVD Logo are better compliant with the Specifications contained in the applicable DVD Format Book(s)."

As you can see, there is no guarantee of the + format's future compatibility with "DVD Forum-approved formats" which is basically ALL DVD players. Interesting, no?

[fingernailX]

How much do you want to pay for media and how compatible do you want it to be? If you want to pay $6 to $7 for media and have it play on 3 out of 5 set top players, anyone of the writers you listed is fine. If you want to pay $1.75 for media and have it play on 9 out 10 set top players then the Pioneer is the only way to go. I am just a skeptic that believes +R and +RW will always have a price premium over -R and -RW. If that changes and write speeds go up significantly, I'll be the first to get a new generation +R/+RW writer - but not till media is a buck a throw.

[Eug]

How much do you want to pay for media and how compatible do you want it to be? If you want to pay $6 to $7 for media and have it play on 3 out of 5 set top players, anyone of the writers you listed is fine. If you want to pay $1.75 for media and have it play on 9 out 10 set top players then the Pioneer is the only way to go. I am just a skeptic that believes +R and +RW will always have a price premium over -R and -RW. If that changes and write speeds go up significantly, I'll be the first to get a new generation +R/+RW writer - but not till media is a buck a throw.

I have a DVD-RAM/-R writer myself, but I must point out that your "3 out of 5 set top players" spec applies only to DVD+RW and DVD-RW, but not DVD-R not DVD+R. Both DVD+R and DVD-R enjoy very high compatibility. It's not clear yet if DVD+R is as compatible as DVD-R, but my guess is that it is going to be fairly close.

Also, DVD+R media is now usually in the price range of good DVD-R media. ($4-5 online, although not often.) The caveat though is that low end DVD+R media does not exist (like the $1.50 DVD-R media that's available but which is not terribly reliable) and DVD+R media is very hard to find. Also, software support for DVD+R is not as great as with DVD-R, since DVD+R is so new.

There are plusses and minuses to the formats (forgive the pun ), and while I agree to an extent on some of your points, let's keep the facts straight.

[EricB]

Well I think you have the right idea to begin with. Look at the software and see which looks easiest for you to use. The format war is really a side issue. It's more important to get your video on to DVD and get on with life. My whole computer becomes obsolete every 2 - 3 years, why should I worry about a burner?

[SLK001]

Bob,
Forget the +R/RW format. Go with the Pioneer DVR-A04. In a year, you'll be glad you did.

[Greg12]

I would recomind buying a QPS firewire shell for 99.99 at Circut City and a DVD-104 online through cnet. THe lowest price is 339.95

Then get a screwdriver and build you own unit.


The only difference is it's cheaper, and your unit doesnt have a name brand sticker.

[john1290]

Are you sure you want to go with the + format? I'm sure this will start a lengthy flamewar but be advised that the DVD Forum, the group responsible for licensing the DVD format, has issued a warning...

RW is not the DVD Format created and authorized by the DVD Forum. Likewise, although strikingly similar in appearance to the DVD-RW, there is no DVD Format called DVD+RW or +RW among the Formats created and authorized by the DVD Forum.

Those involved in the DVD should be advised that there is No DVD Logo to represent +RW or DVD+RW technology authorized by the DVD Forum or approved by DVD FLLC. There is No Verification Process for +RW or DVD+RW products authorized by the DVD Forum. There is No Verification Laboratory authorized by the DVD Forum to test +RW or DVD+RW products. There is No Test Specifications for +RW or DVD+RW products authorized by the DVD Forum and available at DVD FLLC.

Please also be advised, therefore, that DVD Format/Logo Licensing Corporation(DVD FLLC) is not in a position to accept and respond to any inquiry, questions nor offer a license regarding the +RW or DVD+RW technology. DVD FLLC does not represent, guarantee nor state the quality or appropriateness of the above-mentioned technology. Also, there is no guarantee for compatibility between the products employing the DVD Forum-approved Formats and the products employing the +RW or DVD+RW tecnology.

The Licensees of the DVD Format/Logo License should be reminded that the use of the DVD Logo is permitted solely in accordance with the DVD Format/Logo License Agreement.

Note, in particular, the part which states "there is no guarantee for compatibility between the products employing the DVD Forum-approved Formats and the products employing the +RW or DVD+RW tecnology."

Also note that the DVD Forum's "verification is required for DVD products marketed under the DVD Logo. The Verification process assures the consumers that products bearing the DVD Logo are better compliant with the Specifications contained in the applicable DVD Format Book(s)."

As you can see, there is no guarantee of the + format's future compatibility with "DVD Forum-approved formats" which is basically ALL DVD players. Interesting, no?

With DVD-R, you get the "DVD forum stamp of approval" (big deal) and cheap 1x media. With DVD+R you get 2.4X burning of DVD media and so far, good compatibility. Sure, DVD-R has 2x media but it's around the same price as DVD+R 2.4x media.

[john1290]

How much do you want to pay for media and how compatible do you want it to be? If you want to pay $6 to $7 for media and have it play on 3 out of 5 set top players, anyone of the writers you listed is fine. If you want to pay $1.75 for media and have it play on 9 out 10 set top players then the Pioneer is the only way to go. I am just a skeptic that believes +R and +RW will always have a price premium over -R and -RW. If that changes and write speeds go up significantly, I'll be the first to get a new generation +R/+RW writer - but not till media is a buck a throw.

Glad you enjoy burning your $1.75 media at the blinding speed of 1x.
One of the main reason I purchased a DVD+RW drive is for the 2.4x burning. And guess what, 2x certified DVD-R media is around the same price as DVD+R media but we can burn at 2.4X!

Last time I checked, there were serious issues with the quality of those bargain DVD-Rs too.

[john1290]

Bob,
Forget the +R/RW format. Go with the Pioneer DVR-A04. In a year, you'll be glad you did.

Why? DVD+R is looking to be AS compatible as DVD-R and as time marches on, we'll know for sure. DVD+R has a higher reflection rate which should help out in the compatibility department. I'm no DVD+RW expert but I'm behind DVD+RW mainly for the speed. I can burn CDR/W and DVDs faster in my Sony DVD+RW DRU-120A than you can in the Pioneer. It's all about the speed.....if it wasn't we'd all still have 2x CDR burners and 1x DVD burners....whoops....you do have your 1x/2x DVD burning with that DVD-RW......I forgot all about that slow speed after I got my 2.4X DVD burner......oh yeah.....feel the speed of that extra .4!! Every little bit helps.

[jpaguila]

I have a DVD200Xi, DVD+RW/+R from HP, and I have succesfully created several DVD+Rs and not yet found a single player which would not read it.
Even Pioneers players, and a really OLD compatible with nothing else Sony S500D player. This player would not accept CDRW, nor DVD-R, nor DVD-RW but has no trouble at all reading DVD+Rs.
I think you may choose whatever player that fulfills your requirementes. For me the DVD+RW is great. Fast and compatible. Be sure to buy 2nd generation for DVD+R support.
Software support is being quickly updated as well for other DVD authoring Softwares. Nero already supports from version 5.5.8.2.

Juan Pablo

[Kusanagi]

john1290, why the mutliple posts? Just quote/reply in one post please.

*puts on anti-flame coat*

Also, 2.4x may be fast for you now, but Sanyo and Pioneer's 4x DVD-R write drives are scheduled to be released in 1 to 2 months. Once released, your 2.4x will be the slow one. Optodisc also plans to release 8x DVD-R media first half of 2003 - a sign of faster DVD-R/W writers to come. And I don't see any new announcements for 4x+ ceritified DVD+R/W media at all yet...

I agree with xiaNaix and SLK001, forget the +RW standard (its not even a real, official standard for crying out loud!) and go get a A04 DVD-R/W drive...you will have no regrets! Also, Sony has just dumped DVD+R/W in favor for DVD-R/W in their new line of Vaio desktops, see - http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3cfd253a7cafffff;act=ST;f=5;t=16


Kusanagi

[LanceSteel]

You have to go with what you feel is best. Personally, I have a pioneer dvr-104 and I think it's great. First of all, the -r/-rw standard has been around for a while plus it is an actual standard which is supported by the dvd forum. If you really want to burn faster go with the non-standard HP drives. By the way the +R/+RW 2.4x drives burn a dvd in 23 minutes versus the -R/-RW burning them in 28 minutes (five minutes is no big deal to me.) Personally, I burn dvd's at 1x with media that I can get for $1.90 a disk and they work fine! After Kusanagi's post saying that Sony is putting the -R/-RW drives in their Vaio's I don't see the +R/+RW "standard" lasting much longer.

[john1290]

john1290, why the mutliple posts? Just quote/reply in one post please.

*puts on anti-flame coat*

Also, 2.4x may be fast for you now, but Sanyo and Pioneer's 4x DVD-R write drives are scheduled to be released in 1 to 2 months. Once released, your 2.4x will be the slow one. Optodisc also plans to release 8x DVD-R media first half of 2003 - a sign of faster DVD-R/W writers to come. And I don't see any new announcements for 4x+ ceritified DVD+R/W media at all yet...

I agree with xiaNaix and SLK001, forget the +RW standard (its not even a real, official standard for crying out loud!) and go get a A04 DVD-R/W drive...you will have no regrets! Also, Sony has just dumped DVD+R/W in favor for DVD-R/W in their new line of Vaio desktops, see - http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3cfd253a7cafffff;act=ST;f=5;t=16


Kusanagi

Well, when the 4x DVD-RWs appear, then you'll have the upper hand but until then.....and those Optodisc DVD-R 8x discs won't enter mass production until the >2nd< half of 2003.

As for Sony dumping DVD+RW......hmmmm......guess the >SONY< DVD+RW DRU-120A drive in my PC isn't real? If they "dumped" DVD+RW, while are they ramping up factory production of these drives? I read the press release where you got your info from and it's hardly anything to grab and start yelling silly things like "sony dumps DVD+RW". Sony is just playing both sides of the fence as any smart company would. They're a member of the DVD Forum AND they make drives based on the other standard. And who cares about having the "blessing of the DVD Forum".....you say that like it means something. Fact: my DVD+R discs play PERFECTLY in tons of DVD set top players WITHOUT a "DVD" logo....oh my..........gotta wonder, why was the DVD+RW spec created? If DVD-RW was so supperior, why would anyone challenge it? And I wonder how much your 4x DVD-R media is gonna cost? Wanna bet it will cost more than DVD+R media?

[john1290]

You have to go with what you feel is best. Personally, I have a pioneer dvr-104 and I think it's great. First of all, the -r/-rw standard has been around for a while plus it is an actual standard which is supported by the dvd forum. If you really want to burn faster go with the non-standard HP drives. By the way the +R/+RW 2.4x drives burn a dvd in 23 minutes versus the -R/-RW burning them in 28 minutes (five minutes is no big deal to me.) Personally, I burn dvd's at 1x with media that I can get for $1.90 a disk and they work fine! After Kusanagi's post saying that Sony is putting the -R/-RW drives in their Vaio's I don't see the +R/+RW "standard" lasting much longer.

2 years from now I'll be able to make those same statements...."...yeah, the DVD+RW format has been around for 2 years...." There's room for more than 1 DVD format in the universe. Look at floppy drives vs ZIP drives. ZIP drives are supperior to floppies in every way yet the little 3.5" disks and drives are part of every single PC. As for burning speed..... everyone wants to go faster......if this wasn't the case, there wouldn't be any CDR/W burners faster than 2x. If I can get .4 more, I'll take it! And your last sentence is to laugh. My god, stop the world from spinning, Sony isn't putting DVD+RW drives in their VAIOs. OH MY GOD!!!!!!! WHAT NOW!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Just because Sony is using DVD-RW drives in VAIOs, you honestly think DVD+RW is going to vanish by sun up tomorrow? PIPE DREAM!

[RAAGAAman]

I have both drives, Ricoh M5125A and a Pioneer 104. Both drives work well for me. Right now I would take the 104 since there are more -R disks available. I see +R availability increasing in the next couple of months but in the long run I don't think you will see either format dissapear. In fact, there will be drives in the next few months that will support writing too both formats. Maybe you should wait for one of these drives.

RG

[Eug]

I have both drives, Ricoh M5125A and a Pioneer 104. Both drives work well for me. Right now I would take the 104 since there are more -R disks available. I see +R availability increasing in the next couple of months but in the long run I don't think you will see either format dissapear. In fact, there will be drives in the next few months that will support writing too both formats. Maybe you should wait for one of these drives.

RG

People keep saying that DVD+/- combo drives will be out soon. However, I still have my doubts. Probably just vapourware if you ask me.

Also, 2.4x may be fast for you now, but Sanyo and Pioneer's 4x DVD-R write drives are scheduled to be released in 1 to 2 months. Once released, your 2.4x will be the slow one. Optodisc also plans to release 8x DVD-R media first half of 2003 - a sign of faster DVD-R/W writers to come. And I don't see any new announcements for 4x+ ceritified DVD+R/W media at all yet...

I don't think Optodisc has announced 8X DVD-R media. They have a DVD-R media roadmap saying they'll be making 8X DVD-R phase change media. But that doesn't quite make sense to me. If it's truly is phase change media does that mean compatibility will decrease? Plus 8X is ultra fast - too big a jump for the near future. I foresee 4X media only for some time. We shall see though.

DVD+R has a higher reflection rate which should help out in the compatibility department.

Higher than what? Higher than DVD+RW (and DVD-RW) maybe.

[john1290]

DVD+R has a higher reflection rate which should help out in the compatibility department.

Higher than what? Higher than DVD+RW (and DVD-RW) maybe.

Yes, higher than DVD+RW. I believe DVD-R and DVD+R are in the same boat as far as reflection is concerned.

[jowel13]

ZDnet article on DVD+R vs. DVD-R:

http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/reviews/0,4161,2868531,00.html

"But performance is only one criterion for judging DVD recordable drives, especially if you plan to burn home-movie discs. A preburned DVD+R provided by HP worked in every player we tested it in, including some real antiques that wouldn't play DVD-Rs. This initial success is promising, but it's still early in the DVD+R game; we'll continue to test this disc and others we've burned ourselves in as many drives and players we can."

[john1290]

ZDnet article on DVD+R vs. DVD-R:

http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/reviews/0,4161,2868531,00.html

"But performance is only one criterion for judging DVD recordable drives, especially if you plan to burn home-movie discs. A preburned DVD+R provided by HP worked in every player we tested it in, including some real antiques that wouldn't play DVD-Rs. This initial success is promising, but it's still early in the DVD+R game; we'll continue to test this disc and others we've burned ourselves in as many drives and players we can."

Wow......something we haven't seen here in a while...........the truth.

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[Digitizer]

You can't handle the truth

http://www.maximumpc.com/reviews/storage/review_2002-04-26.html

But the best thing about the Sony DVD writer is that, compared to the HP DVD+RW, it produces discs that are compatible with a greater number of set-top DVD decks and PC-based DVD-ROM drives. The superior compatibility appears to be a result of slightly buffed-up firmware and higher-quality media. It’s hard to imagine a bigger buzz-kill than spending $600 on a DVD recorder, only to find that your homemade discs won’t play on your set-top player. Sony brings DVD+RW a step closer to the compatibility currently offered by Pioneer’s DVD-RW DVR-A03, but ultimately fails to prove itself as a superior technology. And the lack of rudimentary write-once capability—which is available in the DVD-R spec and offers even higher compatibility rates—is a big disappointment. So we can’t give this fine drive anything higher than an 8.

[john1290]

DVD-R is the most compatible as it doesn't confuse the player into thinking it has a dual layer disc, and has been around the longest so most DVD Players know the flag type of DVD-R.

You say that DVD+R and dvd-r are in the same boat for compatibility....yet how do you explain that sentence above?

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[john1290]

Easy, I meant to type DVDR, meaning any DVD read-once disc plus or minus.

However reading another thread here, to which I responded, the compatibility of +R only levels with DVD-R due to Philips writing an incorrect flag to the disc, as they do with +RW. If they kept to the specifications for DVD, +R would see less compatibility.

Should you be worried about +R discs having an incorrect identifier written to them in order to compete with DVD-R where compatibility is concern? I would say yes if you would like your discs to play reliably not just now, but on future hardware. Playing about with flags and cheating specifications is a cheap trick and can only lead to a less reliable format.

Regards

Philip

Am I worried about squat with my +RW drive, no. Do my +R discs work in everything I've tried them in, yes.

[Kusanagi]

Am I worried about squat with my +RW drive, no. Do my +R discs work in everything I've tried them in, yes.

I'll make it very simple for you.

DVD-R/W media compatibility in present 2002 drives and DVD players = no worries.

DVD-R/W media compatibility in future drives and players = no real worries ahead, due to DVD Video certification (using DVD-R media and to an extent DVD-R/W media) with the DVD Forum and the release of high-speed DVD Multi writers (and DVD Multi DVD-ROMs) on the horizon.

DVD+R/W media compatibility in present drives/players - some worry as some DVD-ROMS still are still not compatible with DVD+R/W (Some AOpen and Pioneer drives). Also, the new DVD Multi DVD-ROM drives from Hitachi and Toshiba are NOT DVD+R/W certified.

DVD+R/W media compatibility in future drives and DVD players - UNKNOWN. Without certification and testing from the DVD Forum or use of the DVD Video Logo (and if manufacturers continue not to include the DVD+R/W read flag in their players (see PhilipL's post again)), it is really unknown if new drives and players will be 100% compatible with DVD+R/W. Thus, the main importance of the DVD Forum and their logo use. Again, I direct you to read - http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/mess.htm#notice

So, while your DVD players you own may work fine with DVD+R/W media, it is really unknown if DVD+R/W will be widely accepted and compatible with new DVD players. While at the same time, DVD-R compatibility is pressing forward as all new Sony, Toshiba, and Panasonic DVD players even advertise that they can play DVD-R media (ie. http://www.bestbuy.com/Detail.asp?m=1&cat=32&scat=&e=11099590 - I don't see any mention of DVD+R/W compatibility...). Also, Sony and others are even using the DVD-R/W logo on the retail box to let consumers know that it can play DVD-R/W media.


Kusanagi

[john1290]

Am I worried about squat with my +RW drive, no. Do my +R discs work in everything I've tried them in, yes.

I'll make it very simple for you.

DVD-R/W media compatibility in present 2002 drives and DVD players = no worries.

DVD-R/W media compatibility in future drives and players = no real worries ahead, due to DVD Video certification (using DVD-R media and to an extent DVD-R/W media) with the DVD Forum and the release of high-speed DVD Multi writers (and DVD Multi DVD-ROMs) on the horizon.

DVD+R/W media compatibility in present drives/players - some worry as some DVD-ROMS still are still not compatible with DVD+R/W (Some AOpen and Pioneer drives). Also, the new DVD Multi DVD-ROM drives from Hitachi and Toshiba are NOT DVD+R/W certified.

DVD+R/W media compatibility in future drives and DVD players - UNKNOWN. Without certification and testing from the DVD Forum or use of the DVD Video Logo (and if manufacturers continue not to include the DVD+R/W read flag in their players (see PhilipL's post again)), it is really unknown if new drives and players will be 100% compatible with DVD+R/W. Thus, the main importance of the DVD Forum and their logo use. Again, I direct you to read - http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/mess.htm#notice

So, while your DVD players you own may work fine with DVD+R/W media, it is really unknown if DVD+R/W will be widely accepted and compatible with new DVD players. While at the same time, DVD-R compatibility is pressing forward as all new Sony, Toshiba, and Panasonic DVD players even advertise that they can play DVD-R media (ie. http://www.bestbuy.com/Detail.asp?m=1&cat=32&scat=&e=11099590 - I don't see any mention of DVD+R/W compatibility...). Also, Sony and others are even using the DVD-R/W logo on the retail box to let consumers know that it can play DVD-R/W media.


Kusanagi

What crystal ball do you get your "facts" from? Is it a magical 8 ball? Does that 8 ball have a dvd video logo on it by chance?

Do you read my posts here and articles on CNet and other news sites? +R is proving to be just as compatible as -r and in some cases, MORE compatible. +R works in EVERY SET TOP AND DVDROM player I've tried it in. Which is a LOT! +R will work in >all future set top and DVDROM players< period, FACT, BAM! BOOM! PERIOD! FACT! PERIOD!!!!!