Which is best?
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For me, DVD+R/+RW is great...
Read my post about it in....
http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=94569
Juan Pablo.
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DVD+R/W just came to the party way too late. DVD-R/W is now the ONLY official and recognized standard for DVD recording and has the backing of over 230 companies/corporations that make up the backbone of the DVD Forum. Only 8 major companies form the +RW Alliance (and now losing one big supporter - Sony - to the DVD-R/W standard) Even now Sony is dropping support for the DVD+R/W standard and using only DVD-R/W drives in their new Vaio line and have made a DVD-R/W only set-top recorder. See - http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3cfd253a7cafffff;act=ST;f=5;t=16 It does not look to good for DVD+RW, if analysts are predicting the DVD format war to be over soon...
Kusanagi
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The members of the DVD Alliance are also part of the DVD Forum.
Sony is just releasing a new PC DVD+RW/+R drive.
You know, none here can really say what's the future going to be. This is not a format war either, since both format would be read by most new DVD players and DVD Roms and by many old ones.
DVD+R/+RW media prices are now at DVD-R levels and available.
My DVD+R and your DVD-R are not really that different once burned, so what's the point here really.
What's the best format ?
The one that fulfills your requirements. That's all
Techs are as a matter of fact secondary factor (Eventhough none say that DVD+R techs are less than DVD-R)
Best regards
Juan Pablo
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A good summary of the current state of DVD recordable media and technology can be found here - http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3cfd253a7cafffff;act=ST;f=5;t=15
Kusanagi
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Originally Posted by boss
And I read an article that said DVD-RW is old technology and with DVD+R, you get the same level of compatibility, PLUS faster burns and options not availible with -RW.
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Originally Posted by Kusanagi
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Originally Posted by john1290
Nonetheless it's here.
Yes, there is room for various formats, but it's unfortunate that these companies can't agree on a set of technologies. It just serves to hinder the market and confuse people, and keep our recordable media and drive prices high.
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Ally68:
Article on DVD+R vs. DVD-R from zdnet...
http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/reviews/0,4161,2868531,00.html
"But performance is only one criterion for judging DVD recordable drives, especially if you plan to burn home-movie discs. A preburned DVD+R provided by HP worked in every player we tested it in, including some real antiques that wouldn't play DVD-Rs. This initial success is promising, but it's still early in the DVD+R game; we'll continue to test this disc and others we've burned ourselves in as many drives and players we can."
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john1290, no need to get huffy-puffy, just stating what is FACT. Instead of blasting away that one format is better than the other, which you are doing. Also, I've noticed you are from DVDplusRW.org, so again I don't think we can take all your statements at face value, as they will be slanted toward the +RW side (thus your attack on DVD-R/W). Just a recap for all keeping score --
- DVD-R/W is supported by the DVD Forum which has around 232 active members. These members are both media and drive unit manufacturers.
- DVD+R/W is supported by the +RW Alliance, which is formed by 8 core corporations and backed by around 25 other media companies.
- DVD+R/W is not an officially recognized standard. Because of this, you cannot use the DVD Video logo on DVD+R discs. For information on this and logo use, see - http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/mess.htm#notice
- DVD-RW is still more compatible in DVD-ROM drives than DVD+RW, due to a majority of DVD-ROM drives that are out there are OEM'ed Pioneer units or Toshiba units. (Though this is slowly changing due to newly released firmware updates)
- Certified 2x DVD-R media is still cheaper in stores. Locally, I can find Verbatim 2x DVD-R media for $4.99, while HP is charging $9.99 for 2.4x DVD+R media.
- miniDVD camcorders. Hitachi has released their new line of miniDVD format camcorders. They essentially use a mini 1.4gb/30min. DVD-R disc or a mini-DVD-RAM disc. I have not seen any camcorder that uses the +R/W standard from any company.
- DVD Multi drives. DVD Multi certified drives are slowly appearing, which may become the norm. Information here - http://dvdforum.com/tech-dvdmulti.htm and user reports of DVD-R and DVD-RAM compatibility can be found here - http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3cfe33fc38b6ffff;act=ST;f=30;t=1 These new DVD Multi drives are not certified, nor required, to be compatible with DVD+R or DVD+RW media (but are fully compatible with DVD-R, DVD-RW, and DVD-RAM formats).
- Also according to the latest report published online from Verbatim, found at - http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3cfe33fc38b6ffff;act=ST;f=5;t=15 - DVD-R is still more suited for video needs and streaming video due to CLV writing, a mode that is also used for DVD Video players. DVD+R/W is intended more for computer (while incorporating DVD video compatibility characteristics) than A/V use. This is one reason Sony decided to go with DVD-R/W in their new line of Vaios, which incorporate more video editing features then they ever did before.
- DVD-R is still the chosen format for distribution for NLE users and post-prodcution houses. DVD+R/W has yet to penetrate this market - and probably never will (high-end NLE suppliers/distributors have yet to carry any DVD+R/W drives.) Again, why Sony selected DVD-R/W over DVD+R/W for their higher-end Vaio systems.
- 4x and DVD-Multi certified DVD-R/-RW/RAM drives on the horizon. You may think that 2.4x DVD+R/W is fast (not really though - the extra 3-5 minutes over DVD-R burning is hardly that much faster) just wait until Sanyo releases their 4x DVD-R / 2x DVD-RW drive soon (end of the month in Japan, 2 or more months until a state-side release). At 4x writing a DVD-R full of video can be written to in about 12 minutes. I have not seen any announcements by the +RW Alliance yet on new, faster drives - and even Phillips is still rushing to get their act together and release their first drive that supports DVD+R! If Sanyo and Pioneer get their faster drives out and the +RW Alliance do not announce faster drives, or have no intention of doing so, that could be all she wrote, as I doubt the +RW Alliance wants to play catch-up all over again.
- Most of all the recent DVD players released are 100% compatible with DVD-R and even advertise that they play DVD-R! Toshiba even clearly prints that it can play DVD-R on the retail boxes of the SD-3755, SD-4700, and SD-5700. Panasonic is now starting to do the same, advertising on the box that the new RP-62K can play DVD-R. Due to logo/licensing DVD+R limitations, your normal consumer will not know if a certian player can or cannot play DVD+R/W media. Plus, I have yet to see ANY DVD+R compatibility list or database from any of the major supporters of DVD+R/W! How are consumers supposed to know if their player or new DVD players will work with DVD+R/W if this is not readily available!? If it were not for sites like vcdhelp, how would people know what players support DVD+R/W media?
- Support. Pioneer has been pretty loyal with their customer base. We can truely say that this IS NOT the case with DVD+R/W drive suppliers - ie. HP. When DVD-RW was upgraded to v.2.0, all A03 users had to do was to download a FREE firmware update and presto! Fully compatible with new features. Ricoh, HP, and to an extent Philips (the major suppliers of DVD+R/W drives) led customers on with promised DVD+R write once features, and then later promised a free firmware update to make this happen. HP is currently tangled in a class action suit in Las Vegas about this (broken +R promise) and even if you have a DVD100i drive and want the +R write-once feature, not only do you have to send you drive back to HP, but pay them an additonal $100 for the feature that was originally promised for free! On top of that HP support and service is pretty much in the toliet. When it comes to overall support and service, it is no question that the DVD-R/W users have had smooth sailing, unlike the rough start and annoyances that DVD+R/W users have been currently experiencing.
There are probably many more, but these are the main ones that I have concluded from vcdhelp, dvdplusrw, and dv-info.net.
Also, john1290, I'd check the posting guidelines, as your bordering on flaming, including name calling and insulting members here (this is not a DVDplusRW.org thread -- and a lot of members here at vcdhelp do not tolerate this). If you contunue to do so, you are only as good as your last post.
Kusanagi
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Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
My DVD+R discs lack the ever (NOT) important DVD video logo and they play P-E-R-F-E-C-T-L-Y in DVDrom/set top players and guess what....they don't have the logo cause the logo isn't important! Of course the DVD forum isn't going to give the "logo" to the competition. Thats like Ford saying........"since Chevy Suburban's don't have the Ford logo on the hood it isn't allowed to drive on the interstate." Get real.
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
DVD-R is NOT more compatible that DVD+R!
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
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I'm tempted not to respond and get dragged into this, but I guess one more time would be okay
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First, john1290, alot of your statements are wrong and all hypothetical, (and why the attitude problem, too?) let's begin shall we...
Again......who cares about a logo? Did you buy Michael "Air" Jordan tennis shoes when they came out? Cause you know....that Jordan logo on the side makes you jump higher and own other players on the bball courts.
My DVD+R discs lack the ever (NOT) important DVD video logo and they play P-E-R-F-E-C-T-L-Y in DVDrom/set top players and guess what....they don't have the logo cause the logo isn't important! Of course the DVD forum isn't going to give the "logo" to the competition. Thats like Ford saying........"since Chevy Suburban's don't have the Ford logo on the hood it isn't allowed to drive on the interstate." Get real.
How about...."DVD-RW is more compatible in DVD-ROM drives because DVD-RW has been around for a few years MORE than DVD+RW but as time marches on, all DVD-ROMs will be able to read DVD+RW as well as DVD-RW."
First, only fools buy media like that in retail stores. -RW-R+RW+R media is expensive in ANY store. 2x -Rs and +Rs around around the same price online. FACT!Sorrrry, if we are not all as enlightened as you are. Retail purchases and prices still, and always will, be a deciding factor in this DVD recording format dispute.
Again....since +RW *JUST CAME OUT*, it will be a while before you see miniDVD recorders capable of using +R media. When -RW came out, did you have miniDVD camcorders or media 2 days later? NO!
But since companies are in business to make money....I'm quite sure they'll read +RW media.
Vaio......high end.....buwhahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! You're such a tool
If you think the hardware Sony is providing is not up to your personal "high end" standards then excuse us -- go complain to Sony, not to us here.
Well.....going from your 1x burning to 2.4X *IS* a big jump and when your 4x drive finally arrives.....it will be a huge increase....but for us at 2.4X....4x isn't that big of deal.
Was in BB a few days ago.......didn't see a single DVD player that said anything about -RW or +RW....they're JUST NOW announcing compatibility with SVCD. Whoooopeee.
DVD-R is NOT more compatible that DVD+R!
Stop responding to me and stop lying about +RW and there won't be any problems.
I'm just posting what is FACT. It is you who are getting so defensive (and why I have no clue) with all this. I won't respond to you again (and waste my time in the process), unless I see you spreading more assumptions and have to debunk all your biased statements which puts DVD+R/W on the pedastool it does not yet deserve.
The underlying truth is, is that each DVD recordable format has its strengths and weaknesses. I advise all to do research on what format is more suitable for your needs. Only then will you buy a drive, either it be + or - (or RAM), that is right for you.
Kusanagi
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Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
First, only fools buy media like that in retail stores. -RW-R+RW+R media is expensive in ANY store. 2x -Rs and +Rs around around the same price online. FACT!Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Vaio......high end.....buwhahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! You're such a toolOriginally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
DVD-R is NOT more compatible that DVD+R!Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Stop responding to me and stop lying about +RW and there won't be any problems.Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
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You guys supporting +rw must have some amazing intolerance for .4 speed burning differentials.
Look, DVD-RW is the standard. It just is. In tech, always go with the standard. Ask anyone who bought Betamax, HST, or Sega Saturn. Sure, you'll have fun for a while with some gee-whiz effects that the standard type can't do, but in the end, if you want to read and write compatibly with everyone, you'll need to run industry-standard equipment.
Macs use the Pioneer 104 for their Superdrive, and their entire new-age new-hot-thing reputation is built on DVD features. They did not make that decision lightly. Were they right? Well, those waiting lists for the new Powermacs and new iMacs exist for a reason.
Sony, makers of what is actually a great DVD+RW drive, probably the best +RW drive that made it to market, started putting Pioneer 104 drives in their top-end VAIO computers starting Q2-2002. Sony is no longer developing new DVD+RW equipment. They will support their existing +RW burners until they die, however.
I bought the HP +RW burner, had problems getting many set-top players to read my discs. Made a big family films/camcordered-videos DVD to show at a wedding, and nobody could dig up a player that would play the thing. Later I bought an apex player which does fine with them, but the damage was done. The HP drive went back to whence it was spawned, and I bought the Pioneer drive from esbuy for about $350.
It's been smooth sailing ever since. Well, keeping in mind that the video preparation is its own challenge. But once I have the content prepared properly, I run into nearly zero problems with delivery.
DVD-R/-RW is how it's gonna be from here on out. 4x and 8x players will come out, and all the 2.4x argument advocates are going to sound like the numbnuts who used to champion their Zyxel modems since they were the first to go 16,800bps while the rest of us ran HSTs or V.32's at 14.4k. A year later, 28.8k was the standard. Two years later, dialup was maxed out. Now, nothing but DSL or cable will suffice. Tomorrow...???
One thing I find odd is that Plextor has not made a DVD burning drive of any standard. Since they are the first and last name in CDR/W drives, I can't wait to see what they're going to put out for us videophiles.
-Mike-MPB/AZ
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I just purchased my DVD-RW drive recently, and before I did had to decide if I would get it or +RW.
Media price did play a big roll as well as the fact that (AT THE TIME) the +R disk were not out yet. Even if I usually buy off of the net I do sometime end up with locally purchased disk, so the $5 each apple disk are kinda nice.
Also I do personally take comfort in the fact that a very large number of companys back my format, this ensures great competition from media manufacuters as well as drive manufactuers within my chosen format. That way prices go down and speeds go up... its just the natual process of things. Therefore to me the logo DOES mean something.
Heck I remember when I head about the recording companies not able to the the CD logo on their protected disk... I laughed it serves them right for altering the agreed upon standard...
Are DVD+RW and +R disk as compatable as the -Rs that I use? From my net research the answer is No, not quite. But then I could be wrong...
All in all my Pioneer DVR-104 makes data disk that I can read on my computer and most of my friends (one will not upgrade from his first Gen DVD drive...sheesh) and I can burn video that reads on all DVD players I've had a chance to try (long as I use good media... thank you apple) so I'm very happy with my -RW drive. But of course, to each their own...
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Originally Posted by mpb
Originally Posted by mpb
Originally Posted by mpb
Originally Posted by mpb
Originally Posted by mpb
Originally Posted by mpb
A) If DVD-RW was so god awful super duper....why did other companies see fit to introduce +RW?
B) Since -R and +R are the EXACT same in the compatibility dept., why do you still think/say -R is better?
BTW....if it wasn't for +RW and 2.4X burning.......you poor lemmings would still be wasting away at 1x and 2x burning since Pioneer would have ZERO incentive to give you anything faster.......now that vastly superior competition has arrived, NOW they announce 4x DVD burners......you're welcome.
BTW....how's CDR burning on YOUR drive? Might speedy at what... 1.4x?
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Originally Posted by flaystus
Originally Posted by flaystus
Originally Posted by flaystus
Originally Posted by flaystus
Originally Posted by flaystus
And for the logo nazis out there.......I've seen some single sided dual layer (DVD-9) movies with that super duper incredible gotta have it DVD logo FAIL, yes FAIL on a few set top DVD players! O_M_G....I just heard your worlds crumble...............guess that logo didn't mean squat after all ........... buck up campers.........tomorrow is a better day.
......" was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor....."
...... " HELL NO ......"
Lighten up guys..........I'm just having fun............may both formats go in peace......is that to much to ask?
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Wow, some one really needs to give this john1290 a good tongue-lashing or the boot. Not only did he jump into this discussion and insult away, but he's plain-out wrong on several points. I'm only going to comment on a few things, as this discussion is gradually being blown way out of proportion --
God.....are you gonna be like what's his name and tell me since macs use the -RW standard, -RW rules the universe? Lemme guess....you consider macs high end, right? HA!
Why do you and kasishi-bukkae keep avoiding my main questions?
BTW....how's CDR burning on YOUR drive? Might speedy at what... 1.4x
Lighten up guys..........I'm just having fun............
Kusanagi
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Again, Article from zdnet about DVD+R vs. DVD-R
Article on DVD+R vs. DVD-R from zdnet...
http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/reviews/0,4161,2868531,00.html
"But performance is only one criterion for judging DVD recordable drives, especially if you plan to burn home-movie discs. A preburned DVD+R provided by HP worked in every player we tested it in, including some real antiques that wouldn't play DVD-Rs. This initial success is promising, but it's still early in the DVD+R game; we'll continue to test this disc and others we've burned ourselves in as many drives and players we can."
Note: Whether one is "backed" by the industry or not it doesn't mean it's AUTOMATICALLY more compatible than the other.
Give it some time and let the experts make their full reviews. Both formats have their advantages and disadvantages, so quit all the flaming, it's pointless.
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If DVD-RW was so god awful super duper....why did other companies see fit to introduce +RW
From what i know, only the ones with a license fee cut has used the +rw/r format. Also if you see Ron's review of a +RW desktop recorder, you will see, he recognized +rw has more problems that -rw, even as he receive one free!! www.hometheaterforum.com.
Also don´t mess with the apple's, i´m a pc fan and i have not an apple but i respect macs because they have always been a step forward in video than PC's. Also remember they choose dvd-r/-rw over dvd-r/ram, and they wait until -rw appear to fully promote those Apple's, they don't do that with ram drives. Something to think about, no?
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Originally Posted by john1290
***They cut corners in order to make a quick buck, but their innovation didn't stick because it wasn't ideal for use as the final standard.***
DSL has this problem now. Cable is whipping it's ass, 70-30%, among all broadband home users nationwide. go to speedtest.com for details, since you're a ******* source whiner. I have more coming.
And DVD+RW has this problem now, more than ever.
Originally Posted by john1290
And since macs are immensely popular among new computer buyers right now, that means thousands upon thousands of people are putting DVD-RW drives in their living rooms. Ask Nintendo what happens in the market when a company's standard has a large installed user base. They've been on the good side (NES) and the bad side (N64) of that phenomenon.
Originally Posted by john1290
Then go to sony.com and search for "DVD+RW". The page will respond with "Search Results - Your search for "DVD+RW" returned the following results: The Official Sony Site for DVD+RW - Sony Electronics -
http://www.ita.sel.sony.com/jump/storage/dvdrw ".
IT'S A DEAD LINK. Happy times.
It gets better. Another link it gives you is to allow you to configure your new Sony PC with a +RW drive. When you actually click on the link and look at the new page, you only have the option of -RW.
I'm done giving URL references to the things I say. I have reasonably proven to be more credible as a reference than you have in this thread. Aside from your smartass "didn't think so" remarks, you haven't said much of substance. 2.4x to 2.0x is NOT a huge speed difference. I'm sorry, it's just not. Deal with it.
Originally Posted by john1290
Originally Posted by john1290
Why develop +RW at all? 1) Licensing. 2) They found a method of cutting corners to get a quick speed boost which could increase short-term profitability and would only piss off early adopters when they had to kill it. 3) Media profits. Any disc media is obscenely cheap to manufacture. Why do you imagine they charge so much more for +RW? You know damned good and well it costs precisely the same amount to make as -RW. and 4) Because tech companies are willing to gamble on the possibility of an against-all-odds payoff, a la DVD itself, which was supposed to never be good enough supplant laserdisc among videophiles, but seemed like a solid throw of the dice at the time.
Originally Posted by john1290
Originally Posted by john1290
Originally Posted by john1290
-Mike-MPB/AZ
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BTW... anyone paying $5 for -R media is silly. Primedisc and the esbuy media run $1.80-$2.20 per (depending on quantity) and they burn perfectly well. The Primediscs especially. The ones I bought had japanese labels. I can't believe how perfect they have been...
-Mike-MPB/AZ
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Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
Originally Posted by Kusanagi
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*Yawn* here we go again...I guess it's troll feeding time...
I just don't care. macs suck. period. FACT.
If Macs sucked sooo bad according to you, why do we see them in almost every post-production facility running Final Cut Pro 3 and Media100 on them. Apple machines are the dominant choice and chosen machine for most of all professional editors from Hollywood types (ie. Steven Soderbergh, again see - http://www.apple.com/hotnews/articles/2002/04/fullfrontal/fullfrontal1.html ) to smaller post-production facilities doing small distribution on DVD-R. Your PC (and if sooo great, please share with us your system specs, now that vcdhelp has added that option) just would not cut it.
I went with +R for speed and video. I have made the right choice since I haven't come across a set top DVD player or DVD rom that has failed to read my +R media. Again, you have no point.
I don't need a dedicated burner because my Sony can burn CDRs at 12x and CDRW at 10x. I can understand your need for an extra drive to augment your slow burning -RW.
Kusanagi
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Originally Posted by mpb
Originally Posted by mpb
Originally Posted by mpbLO LO LO
Originally Posted by mpb
Originally Posted by mpb
Originally Posted by mpb
Originally Posted by mpb
http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/storage/index.shtml
Originally Posted by mpb
Originally Posted by mpb
Originally Posted by mpb
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