VideoHelp Forum




+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. Hi, I am looking into either a video camera or Canopus ADVC-100 for video capture. I'd appreciate any imput before we buy.

    Currently, we have an analog video camera that my son uses to film and edit skateboarding. With some older equipment and software, he is getting some poor quality for the huge effort that he is putting into it.

    I also have numerous old home movies and so I would like to archive these onto cd or dvd and offer some upgraded equipment to my son at the same time.

    I've been reading the board for a few weeks now, and right now it looks like it comes down to either upgrading our video camera to a digital camera that can be used for capture or buying the Cannopus, above.

    Sorry to repeat what you already know, but are my assumptions correct here? It appears that the DV from the camcorder is captured compressed - does that mean lower quality than a capture from the Canopus? How much lower? Is it also interlaced? Does that mean we can't make vcd's, but svcd or dvd should bd OK? I take it this is a non-problem with the Canopus?

    It also seems that the camera pass through route is overall easier - is this true? Are any steps saved by using this route over the canopus? Can you still edit the capture? What about software - it seems like you need four separate software programs to finish the job - capture, edit, encode and burn. Does either method simplify this?

    It seems like we may need an additional hard drive for either method - is this correct?

    Overall, since I am starting out fresh, which of these offers the most quality, options, value and simplicity?

    Computer (Pentium 4 - 1.8) and hard drive (60 gig - 7200 rpm EIDE) speed are OK according to the specs you list her - but I do have an 64MB NVIDIA™ GeForce2 MX400 AGP, Windows XP, 256 RAM. Ultimately I would like to get my home movies onto DVD, but we would also like to use CD's (VCD or SVCD) for starting out.

    Any advice or comments? Thanks a lot!

    Deb
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Eric
    Search PM
    Deb,

    I've been very happy with the camera pass-through method. A number of the Sony camcorders will do analog conversions in both directions. This allows you to convert older analog tapes to DV, edit them, make VCDs, SVCDs, and DVDs, and still output to VHS for your OldSchool friends.

    Another advantage over the Canopus route, is you can take your edited DV file and save it back to the camera. Thus, you can make VCDs now, and DVDs later when you can afford that stuff. Being a digital copy, it is equivalent to your edited file.

    Finally, for the money you invest, you end up with a new video camera, not just a converter. I think the Canopus is around $300, and I got a very nice Sony D8 for $500.
    Quote Quote  
  3. By any chance you know how to do the pass through on the Sony D8? I have a D8 trv320 and whenever I connected the Firewire Cable the D8 screen went blank. I connected the analog from the VCR (play) to the D8 and the video was playing and appeared on the screen but when I put the firewire cable in, the screen went blank.
    Quote Quote  
  4. Hi Eric,

    Thanks for the reply.

    That's a good point about getting a new camera out of it - I haven't seen home video from a digital camera but my son says it's sharper than the video we get.

    I'm not sure I understand what happens when you save the edited file back to the camera though - does it stay as a digital file or does it become analog? Maybe I have a block, but because D8 and mini DV both use tape, it's hard for me to see them as digital. When the file goes back to tape, is there a quality loss? Do you mean that you archive this way?

    Thanks again - I appreciate the input.
    Quote Quote  
  5. Member
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Eric
    Search PM
    Deb,

    The camera is digital and although it is using tape, the files on the tape are all digital information. When you "capture" the video into the computer, you are actually doing a file transfer from the camera to the computer.

    You edit the file on your computer, keeping it in "DV" format which is the same format as the files on the camera. When you are done editing (titles, special effects, music, whatever) you transfer the finished file back to the camera.

    Note that if you made no changes to the file, you could pass it back and forth between the camera and the computer and it would be identical each time! Thats the beauty of digital video!

    Tom,

    Assuming that your firewire works (you can transfer from the camera to the computer), you need to go to the menu and set your DV Out to "ON" when capturing from analog sources. One other thing, in some European digital camcorders, the analog input is disabled.
    Quote Quote  
  6. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    Search Comp PM
    If you want a better quality video camera anyway then a new DV cam is definitely the way to go. I went with the canopus because I didn't think I'd get much use out of a camera and didn't want to spend the extra money. I can say though that I'm very happy with the Canopus ADVC-100. It's simple to set up and use, you can capture from and send to both analog and digital sources, the audio and video never get out of sync, I've done captures up to 2 hours without dropping a single frame and the quality is consistantly excellent relative to the source.

    As for software I use Ulead VideoStudio 5, which came with my NEC firewire card for the capture, TMPGenc to encode and sometimes cut off bits at the beginning and/or end I don't want in the final output, and VCDEasy to burn the VCD. Haven't really had the need to do much editing yet beyond the occasional cutting, not sure what I'll use when I do, VS5 has some editing capabilities but seems pretty limited.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Thanks Bondiablo, it does sound like a great idea to get my video camera upgraded, but I'm worried that I will have some of the problems capturing that have been reported by some people here.

    I been rereading the posts from users who use their digital camera as a flow through and there seems to be two groups of people - those who are satisfied with the results - love them even - and those who are reporting wavy lines and generally terrible results. Was this problem ever resolved? Some of the posts suggested that it might be interlaced video, but if that is the case, why did it bother only some people? Was it the software they used? And I never saw a post from anyone that said that they found a solution. Also, whether it was problem that showed up whether they used vcd, svcd or dvd.

    If I was sure that I wouldn't get these same problems, I'd go for the digital camera route. Otherwise, it seems like the Canopus might be safer.

    This is tough...

    By the way, have you had any problems with Canopus and the Macrovision signal?
    Quote Quote  
  8. Thanks EricB, I turned on the AV to DV out on the D8, will see if it works

    now for the update, it works!

    Boy it was easy, had no problem transfering the analog VHS even marcrovision didn't affect the transfer. It was great, thanks again.

    lol, now I won't have to think that I need the $250 Dazzle hollywood DV.

    Oh, of course, for your info, I was using Studio DV for capturing using the firewire port from the sound blaster audigy. No problem, no wavy lines, no macrovision, smooth as it gets.

    Now I am encoding it into DVD Mpeg2 using Tmpgenc, Tmpgnec recognize the DV format and is encoding it now
    Quote Quote  
  9. Member
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Eric
    Search PM
    Deb,

    The interlacing is a really complicated topic which I probably can't explain in one paragraph. However, the file you get on your computer either from a camera pass-through or the Canopus is virtually identical. It is a DV format AVI file. In areas using NTSC video (USA), the DV frame is 720x480 and is interlaced. When you play that back on your computer, depending on the player you will see interlacing lines during movement. If you play the file into a TV, it will look perfect (the TV uses interlaced signal).

    While lots of people run de-interlacing filters etc, I take the DV, encode with TMPGenc and the resulting VCD file has a frame size of 352 x 240 and is not interlaced. On a computer and on TV this looks fine.

    For a higher quality encode, I use SVCD which has a 480 x 480 frame and is interlaced. Thats ok because the TV expects an interlaced signal.

    I understand the Canopus is a great unit, just don't make your decision based on interlacing. Both approaches are the same in that respect.
    Quote Quote  
  10. Deb,

    Obviously, your milage may vary, but here's my experience:

    I purchased a Dazzle USB video capture cable (one of the cheap ones) and was very unhappy with it. I have a 1.6GHz Pentium 4 computer with 256MB or RAM, so this device should have worked, but I got tons of frame dropping.

    I returned it, bit the bullet, and purchased a Canon ZR45MC MiniDV camcorder and a Pinnacle DV Firewire card (includes Studio 7 for editing), and I haven't looked back! I get zero frame drops when capturing at full DV quality (720x480), and the results are excellent. Studio 7 is great for editing (splitting & merging scenes, adding titles and transitions, etc.), and I use TMPGEnc to convert from .avi to .mpg format for making VCDs. (Studio 7's "Make Movie" option for MPGs looked crappy--that's why I use TMPGEnc.)

    Good luck on your decision! 8)

    -Jim
    Quote Quote  
  11. Thanks so much for the replies - this really helps!

    Well I think I am sold on the digital camera route - it sounds like it's all on the plus side - new camera, quality, ease of use. Plus I have the option of recording to tape rather than unhooking my TIVO and carting it upstairs to the comuter!

    I see you guys have both Digital8 and MiniDV formats - since we have other 8mm tapes, it's probably easies to get a Digital8. Is the quality the same as for MiniDV? Or would it be just as easy to go MiniDV and plug the old camera into the new one to capture?

    I hope there is no problem with Windows XP. Also, how important is a separate hard drive? My son already has Studio 7 - is any firewire card OK or does it require the Pinnacle one?

    One last question (I'll try to get a grip), I noticed when EricB described the formats, VCD was not interlaced but all the others were. Does TMPGenc do this automatically for VCD? It sounds as though you can work around the interlacing if you know the right formats to use. Are there directions for this in the help areas to the left?

    Again, thanks for the input, I really appreciate it.
    Quote Quote  
  12. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Hawaii
    Search Comp PM
    Interlacing is determined by the amount of vertical resolution lines. Anything over 240 lines will be interlaced. Since VCD resolution is 352X240, the signal will never be interlaced.

    However, SVCD resolution is 480X480, which produces an interlaced signal. You can specify to Tmpgenc to output a non-interlaced mpeg, but if the source is interlaced (it will be), then the interlace lines will just carry through.

    Again, they disappear without the help of a filter in VCD format, because it's only 240 lines of vertical resolution.
    Quote Quote  
  13. Deb,

    I have Studio DV with the pinnacle firewire but it works on other firewire card also. I have heard that it does work on other cards. Since Studio 7 is newer than my software but I would think it works on other cards.

    I have heard that the Digital 8 and miniDV output almost the same, some compared the result and found no different on the naked eyes. If you use Hi8 tape with also what Sony Digital 8 camcorder uses, your result should be great. If you use just the 8mm tape of course you will only get 8mm resolution.

    It would be nice to have a separate fast hard drive so you would not encounter frame drops. Use ATA100 or ATA133 hard drive. Some have not notice any differences between the 5300 vs the 7200rpm drives. The Camcorder route was great since I did not have any frame drops but if I use my ATI AIW I always have frame drops no matter what, ave is like 53 frames for 1 1/2 hr movies
    Quote Quote  
  14. Member
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Eric
    Search PM
    IMO

    Assuming you are trying to contain costs, start with just the hard drive you have. I started on a 400mhz computer with a 5,400rpm drive and never dropped any frames. Remember, the camera is doing the work of converting not the computer. This also assumes that you have a decent amount of space available on your current drive.

    I think you can get equivalent quality with D8 or MiniDV. I went with D8 because I do have a bunch of Hi8 material, and the Sony converts these on the fly (ie. put Hi8 tape in camera -> DV comes out firewire). Also, when doing passthrough (ie. VHS player -> analog in) it doesn't require a tape in the D8 camera. I'm not sure that all other camcorders work this way. I also opted for an older model camera with absolutely no gimmicks (like digital still frames). The TRV-120 had better user reviews than the current series at that time, so I found a new in the box one on ebay.

    Whatever you do, make sure the camera has analog in (not all dealers have any idea what you are talking about!) and read some user reviews.
    Quote Quote  
  15. Thanks so much for all your input and help.

    I've been looking at the camcorders on the Sony and Canon sites and at B&H. At this point, I'm sort of leaning towards the Sony because we could use the fisheye lens and the larger battery from our Sony analog camcorder. That was a happy discovery!

    I admit, I still have an information gap with the interlacing. I understand what you've all explained; what I don't understand is why some people had such poor video, with the wavy lines and such. Was this something they did or was it their software? I guess it's hard to say without having the background info.

    Well I'm pretty excited about the new digital camera now... I haven't gotten much work done lately with all this investigating I've been doing!
    Quote Quote  
  16. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    Search Comp PM
    If MV is a concern then you may not want to go with the DV cam as I doubt you can find one that will allow it. I've had no problem with it on the Canopus as all you need do to disable it is hold down the input select button for at least 20 seconds. It then remains disabled until the unit is powered off.
    Quote Quote  
  17. Thanks for the caution, Bondiablo. I had decided that the DV camera was the way to go, but I think I'll post another question under that topic and see if some of those who own one would respond back. It might affect my decision if it couldn't capture without ignoring the macrovision signal.

    Deb
    Quote Quote  
  18. Member holistic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    here & there
    Search Comp PM
    Why would macrovision be a concern ??? You said you were doing "numerous old home movies"
    If they are not commercial it is a non issue.

    There are 'black boxes' that will take the VCR signal and pass it through to the recording source with it disabled.

    I use a Canon ZR40 and am VERY happy with it's A/D pass through capabilities. I did look at the Sony products but $ for $ the ZR40 was the best for ME as i didn't need high zoom or fancy digital effects (do them on the computer)

    As stated the AVDC-100 does have macrovision removal/ignore capabilities
    Quote Quote  
  19. Thanks for the reply, Holistic.

    Just planning ahead. Eventually my old home movies will be archived and I will be looking for new things to capture.

    You didn't mention if your Canon was bothered by Macrovision - is it?
    Quote Quote  
  20. Member holistic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    here & there
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by deb
    Thanks for the reply, Holistic.

    Just planning ahead. Eventually my old home movies will be archived and I will be looking for new things to capture.

    You didn't mention if your Canon was bothered by Macrovision - is it?

    All the DV cameras i looked at had 'copyright' protection mine included.

    Am i bothered by it ? - NO - there are ways

    But i didn't get the camera for that. I got it so i could archive 40 hours of VHS efficiently.
    Quote Quote  
  21. By other ways, I take it that one way might be a black box? Any particular type?

    I notice that you said you bought the camera to efficiently archive the VHS - can I ask why you felt that the camera was the most efficient way to accomplish this?

    When I first considered the capture through DV camcorder or Canopus, I thought my son would use the camera for filming. He feels more comfortable with his old Hi8 analog camera though, just because it is his and he doesn't have to worry about all the concerns that go along with sharing equipment, etc. I also thought the DV camcorder was a great idea for portability, ease of use, etc. But I am questioning the advisability of choosing the camcorder when my own primary objective is capture.

    Not to make a true confession out of this - I just wondered if the factors you considered might apply to my circumstance.

    thanks again,
    Deb
    Quote Quote  
  22. Member holistic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    here & there
    Search Comp PM
    No confessions - no truths to be told here Deb - just the facts mam'

    fact 1- 40+ hours of vhs/hi8
    fact 2- 3 year old Sony Hi8 camcorder (will die soon- has served me well)
    fact 3 (more like a rationalization actually) - What would i do with an Analog/Digital converter when all my old stuff is encoded to little plastic coasters. Nothing - It is of no use then .

    therefore i got the ZR40


    ..............the end
    Quote Quote  
  23. Actually, I was talking about myself with the true confessions - I kind of went on there.

    Anyway, your situation sounds like mine. I'm still leaning towards the camcorder route over the Canopus. If you had the older Hi8 tapes, why didn't you go with the Digital8 camcorder? I have 8mm and Hi8 tapes both and it seemed like the likely step to get the Digital8.

    I've been looking at resolution etc. and comparing models, primarily Sony because we have batteries that would work for either Digital * or MiniDV, and my sons fisheye would work with the Digital8.

    My question is, if the capture resolution is limited, then is it really an advantage to have greater resolution on the camera? Am I right in thinking that any camera will capture my old stuff the same because the source quality controls? So how much difference will increasing the pixels have on my output for new films?

    Again - thanks for your input!
    Quote Quote  
  24. Hi EricB,

    Let me see if I understand what you're explaining about interlacing -

    For SVCD and DVD, because they are over 240 they are both interlaced, but the TV expects interlaced video and it will look fine on the TV. You need a player for interlaced to display OK on the computer screen though. Is that right?

    Will the Canopus or other capture devices (other than camcorder) record interlaced as well? If not, does it play without a player on the computer (because it is not interlaced), but it needs to be interlaced to play properly for TV?

    Also, I think I read somewhere that there was a little quality degradation due to the interlacing - is that true and is it really insignificant?

    Sorry to be so thick. It's hard to get the picture when you get little pieces of it at a time.

    Thanks for the help!
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads

Visit our sponsor! Try DVDFab and backup Blu-rays!