ATI TV WONDER - anyone capturing at 480 width???

[jpb1977]

I have been reading about next's captures with mmc 7.1 and captures at 352X480, but I don't have this option with the TV Wonder card. Is this correct? I only see 240 width (640X240, 480X240, 352X240, 320X240 etc...) What gives? Only the Radeon's and AIW's give you the option of 480 width? But the same software??

jpb

[ejai]

Nope, I have a Radeon and I am also wondering how to catch video at 352x480 resolution.

[jpb1977]

So if it is a reg hack, where are the instructions to do it....

jpb

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On 2001-08-02 06:58:42, jpb1977 wrote:
I have been reading about next's captures with mmc 7.1 and captures at 352X480, but I don't have this option with the TV Wonder card. Is this correct? I only see 240 width (640X240, 480X240, 352X240, 320X240 etc...) What gives? Only the Radeon's and AIW's give you the option of 480 width? But the same software??

jpb
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Go to the ati web site and you'll see in the faq's that the captures are limited to a maximun of 240 for the TV Wonder card. It's here:

http://www.ati.com/na/pages/faq/tv_wonder_faq.html#3

[jpb1977]

NOOOOOOOOOO

but thanks for your help - so what about guys that have a Radeon and don't see the 480 width option??

jpb

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On 2001-08-02 07:18:33, jpb1977 wrote:
NOOOOOOOOOO
jpb
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This may be a longshot but have you tried to manually adjust the resolution in the registry. I'd try setting up a custom capture profile and then run regedit and manually change the 240 value to 480 and see what happens. I've tried crazier things in MMC 7.1 and they have worked.

edit -

just because MMC7.1 may not give you the option doesn't mean your hardware may not have the capability. ATI has a habit of wanting people to buy their more expensive products and designs its software around this concept. But in many cases the hardware is the same.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: next on 2001-08-02 08:05:02 ]</font>

[jpb1977]

Thanks next - you've been a great help. It goes without saying, you are the man around here. If only you would respond to direct emails ha ha Thanks again, I'll keep you and all those ATI TV Wonder owners out there posted on the results. (Once I get home

jpb

[lemmy999]

I have a TV-Wonder and I can capture at 640x480 or 480x480. For 480x480 I have to select Custom size in Vdub or AVI_IO. I think 640x480 is the max though.

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On 2001-08-02 10:17:00, lemmy999 wrote:
I have a TV-Wonder and I can capture at 640x480 or 480x480. For 480x480 I have to select Custom size in Vdub or AVI_IO. I think 640x480 is the max though.
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This pretty much confirms that MMC 7.1 is the limiting factor and not the card itself. Hacking the registry to 480x480 or 352x480 may not be quite the longshot I thought it was. Good luck!

[jpb1977]

Unfortunately switching the width in the registry didn't do the trick. It didn't work because when I returned to mmc7.1, custom was greyed out until I switched to another preset (the edited preset wasn't even there!) Lemmy999 - tell us, how did you do it?

jpb

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On 2001-08-02 20:47:04, jpb1977 wrote:
Unfortunately switching the width in the registry didn't do the trick. It didn't work because when I returned to mmc7.1, custom was greyed out until I switched to another preset (the edited preset wasn't even there!) Lemmy999 - tell us, how did you do it?

jpb
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Too bad. Lemmy is using capture software other than MMC 7.1 which may be the way to go for you. One more question. Does the TV Wonder version of MMC let you do mpeg2 captures and if so at what resolutions?

[jpb1977]

Yes on the mpeg2, but I'm not home so I can't give you the resolutions. Is your thought that it can do 480X480 SVCD mpeg2, but then I could go to the registry and back it down to mpeg1 without changing the screen size? Sounds like a plan, I'll keep you informed.

jpb

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On 2001-08-03 05:37:04, jpb1977 wrote:
Yes on the mpeg2, but I'm not home so I can't give you the resolutions. Is your thought that it can do 480X480 SVCD mpeg2, but then I could go to the registry and back it down to mpeg1 without changing the screen size? Sounds like a plan, I'll keep you informed.

jpb
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Exactly. Also you can clone the preset capture settings that MMC provides and then edit them. You just have to go into custom settings, highlight the preset, for example "Best Quality" and click edit. You now have your own version of the preset that you can tweak. In my version of MMC the "Best Quality" preset is Mpeg2 640x480. You may be able to work with it and tweak it to what you want.

[william_n]

Hello everyone, I also just bought the ATI AIW 128 Pro 32MB w/ MMC 7.1. Eveything seems to work fine on the display, but recording to MPEG2 is a pain (frame dropping like crazy !). Few headaches:

1-All the presets that I can use with little frame dropped are AVI and VCD. Using VCD template and raising the bit rate to 1.15 the frame starts to drop. I wonder if anyone has the optimum setting for Mpeg1 and Mpeg2 to achieve minimum frame drop.

2- I also recognized the quality of this recording is poor compare with TMPGEnc mpeg in equivalent setting, the blocking artifact is so obvious with ATI. I thought they are both software encoder.

3- The video/audio setup is OK, no problem with cable TV recording. However, when I try to record with composite video (from VCR) as soon as I click the recording button, the audio somehow switched to the cable TV audio and stuck there. I had to get out of TV player or toggle the input sources (cable,composite,S-video)to get the VCR audio back. So for now can not record audio from composite mode.

My system is PIII,733Mhz, 256MB RAM, and 28G diskspace.

Thanks everyone for shedding some lights on those above.

[jpb1977]

With a system of that horsepower, it seems ridiculous that you are dropping ANY frames! I would seriously consider the dreaded (although it shouldn't be) re-format, start from scratch. It cleared up ALL of my problems. I've got a weaker system and I never drop frames.

jpb

[ejai]

I've just captured my first 352X480 using the Radeon and it was outstanding. The video sharpness was unbelievable. Yet with all this celebration I found one flaw. My Apex played the file fine, but the Sony had a problem with the resolution and played only a portion of the screen. The resolution made it difficult for the Sony but not the Apex. I was wondering does it make sense to continue to record using a resolution that might not work in many DVDs? What do you think?

[Causality]

Man! Now I'm really confused. It's hard for me to follow all this with no practical experience. I want to buy the right card up front rather than try to find a solution to a bad one. I don't want to buy the cheapest thing out there, but then again I don't want to spend a bag of cash on stuff I don't need (like the Radeon crappy 3D display hardware or the Pinnacle and Dazzle editing software suite I'll never use). It pisses me off that ATI is going to force me to pay them for their crappy 3D processor when all I want is the capture chip. The TV Wonder seemed to be the solution 'til I checked the ATI site and saw the 240 width max. The ATI site says 240 max width and no MPEG2 support in the TV Wonder. But jpb1977 says the TV Wonder supports MPEG2. And lemmy999 says VDub allows higher res captures. So, is the consensus of this thread that the ATI TV Wonder hardware will do 480X480 MPEG2 with MMC 7.1 or with VDub or not at all. I know the TVW doesn't do hardware MPEG2 compression, MMC uses some worthless proprietary AVI codec, and the VDub site says nothing about MPEG compression so where does the "MPEG2 support" come in. I know I'm asking a lot but I'm trying not to end up with 3 useless capture cards in my closet.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to lend me some wisdom I haven't earned the hard way (ie. 3 useless cards in my closet).

[Anonymous65]

The TV Wonder card is the same as the WinTV card, a $49 card. The card can do 640x480 with vidcap32 or virtualdub. Also, the 480 is the height in lines, not the width. 640 pixels wide by 480 pixels height.

SK

[Causality]

Thanks SK! But where does the MPEG2 support come in. I'll have pletny of horsepower a t-Bird 1.4@1.7+ but doesn't AVI to MPEG still take hours per 1/2 hour of original broadcast? The guys above discussed the TV Wonder supporting MPEG2 what does that mean if the card doesn't actually compress the feed?

[Anonymous65]

If you install a software real-time mpeg-2 encoder, like PowerVCR or WinVCR, you can record Mpeg-2 with the card. Just remember to turn off overlay mode when you capture at anything higher than 240 pixels high. The WinTV capture cards will give you an error if you don't turn off overlay.
However, Ulead Videostudio that has real-time mpeg1/2 capture, you cannot record more than 240 vertical pixels (single field mode only). Videostudio does not have overlay/preview control.

SK

[Causality]

Thanks again SK!

[vhelp]

Causality,

If you don't mind my 2 cents worth.
I have the ATI-TV Wonder card (PCI version). I'm wondering if your responders are thinking
that you mean the ATI-awi 128 or higher cards. In short, The ATI-TV Wonder (PCI) version
does not have hardware MPEG1 chip. Rather, its a software encoder, I think LSX version.
IT NOT A HARDWARE MPEG1 CARD!!
As for the ATI-AIW 128, I did purchase one, because it said MPEG1 AND MPEG2 support. I
thought that THIS card had a Haredware MPEG1 and MPEG2 chip inside. Body, was I shocked!
IT DOESN"T!!!!!
In my ATI-TV Wonder card, using the MPEG1 captures, I remembered my systems monitor
showing 15% cpu, then looking at the it with the ATI-AIW 128 16mb version, I noticed (with same specs as prev ATI card) that the cpu was now at 80%. I realized then, that this card WAS NOT a hardware MPEG encoder EITHER!!
And, the Max resolution I could capture with the ATI-TV Wonder card was 352x240 w/mmc6.3.
...if doesn't support the mm7.1. Please, DONT try it. YOu'll regret it!! I did! I had to re-install
windows from scratch, because I was so sure I knew what i was doing and that I could get it to
work! Stubbern me!!
Please note, the ATI-AIW 128 card that I'l talking about is the 16mb version with graphics,
tv tuner, s-video and what not. IMO, this card sucked more than my prev card, so... I returned
it and got my money back - end of story.

As far as capturing at higher resolutions... Yes, you can, with my system, I've ben able to
capture as high as 480x480, boarderline frame drops 1, 5, 15 or less. But I found 352x480
to give me better caps, maybe 1 dropped. I'm not using the ATI-TV Wonder card in my pc at
the moment. I'm at present, still experimenting with the DC10+. So far, I've ben please, with
the exception of my final encode/burn. When I play the clip in my standalone DVD player,
it jump/jerks/slow motion or fast motion throughout. Once I figure this problem out, I'll post,
cause I know there are other people out there with this problem. However, I have read other
posts of people using the DC10+, but no mention of the problem I just stated with motion.
I guess theyre not sharing how to overcome it. Well, I'll keep trying. In the mean time,
keep on researching. Sooner or later, you'll end up trying just about every card out there.
Lets see, I'm on my fourth one:
* Hauppague PCI
* ATI-TV Wonder
* ATI-AWI 128 16bm (returned)
* Dazzle usb I
* DC10+ (currently using/testing)

Currently, I'm capturing at 608x464, and encoding at 480x480 - result are pretty good.
But no place for me to post my capture clips for you guys to see and judge. Sorry!

Well, I hope I haven't create too much of a dent in your descision.
Causality, ...GOOD LUCK!!

[jpb1977]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that the TV Wonder BECOMES a hardware encoder with MMC 7.1, but uses software with version 6.3 - is that right?

jpb

[tropicdude]

I dont have much experience yet, but have found out some things to improve drop outs, i did a couple of things that seemed to help.

Did settings in windows to free up resources:

locate following key in registry editor:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Curr ent Version\Explorer . with this key selected, click edit, New, and Key, to create a new key you name; AlwaysUnloadDll. next double-click the Default value in contents pane on the right, enter a data value of 1, and click OK. This forces windows to unload DLL files when not needed, reboot PC to enable.

Deframent drive and registry regularly.

I have noticed that you can have a crap load of RAM and still come up short, the PC just locks it up, i downloaded a little program called Memory-Turbo, it scrubs your system to free up memory and defrags RAM also also tunes up Cache.

Shut down all programa not needed that are probably using up resources, press Ctrl + Alt + Del what your seeing is whats running on your PC.

Also another bottle neck is the Hard Drive. Do you have DMA option selected for your hard drive?

Also if you have 133Mhz RAm in your PC, your bios default could be set to 100 Mhz. so you might want to check up on that.

My PC has a 1 Ghz. and 512Meg RAM and at first i was getting a Lot of drop outs. but now its a lot better.
i would also recommend getting one of those Fix-it 2000 or similar utilities, to help, defrag, optimize, and customize your system. hope this info helps.

[Anonymous65]

I might be wrong, but I believe the ATI TV Wonder is a CHEAP $50 TV Tuner card with the same specs as the WinTV Tuner card. It's a simple mono TV card with field only overlay, (max.320x240) and no kinds of hardware encoder, just a video digitizer like the BT878 chip.

SK

[VideoGuy]

*I AM A TV-WONDER VE OWNER*
Heres the low down, if you really want to know.

1) The TV-Wonder VE is a PCI TV tuner. MMC 7.1 is included.
2) Works with AVI_IO and VirtDub
3) Works with CinePlayer DVR 2.51
4) Does *not* work with PowerVCR II 3.0
5) There is *no* hardware encoding on the card, NONE!
6) The only CODECS avaliable are ATI VCR-1, which sux!!
7) There is *NO* MPEG 1 or 2 capture with this card and MMC!
There is *NO* ATI VCR-2 CODEC with this card, which sux!

The card shows promise, but only uses VFW drivers, hence it wont work with PowerVCR which appears to have *WAY* more flexibility than CinePlayer DVR.

I dont think that VCR-1 CODEC can even be used in AVI_IO or VirtDub. I never saw it on the list, your screwed unless you like to cap uncompressed AVIs!! (Yeah, right!)

CinePlayer: VCD MPEG1 template produces sorry results on set top. However, MPEG2 is much improved, file size is a bit larger. Bitrate options are 1.5, 2 and 3mbsp of which of course 3 is the best quality, though 2 was very very good, and 1.5 was somewhat lame. Captures in MPEG2 with CinePlayer *could not be read with TMPGenc!!!* That is, I cant captuer CinePlayer's "quirky" MPEG2 formate and convert to VCD. However, MediaPlayer (MPEG2 filter is on my system) would play the files fine. FlaskMPEG loaded the MPEG2, but strange green bar, large in size, filled the bottom and picture was skewed. Found out the 352X240 I set for MPEG2 was actually coming out to be 320X256 shomehow! Maybe thats why nothing wants to read it right.

The only way to cap to an MPEG file that you can actually use is with CinePlayer DVR 2.51, using 2XCD MPEG1. Quality on screen was very good, a little disappointing on set top via VCD. Also CinePlayer didnt seam to want to tune all the channels that were actually there!

MMC sux, as does all ATI software, Im an Ex owner of an AIW 128 and was only impressed with VCR-2 CODEC. Its a shame its tucked inside a lousy program. Dont get me wrong, the hardware is great, has mega potential! (The video drivers always seam flaky, many hangs and such..)

Final decision: ATI TV-Wondeer VE (Value Edition, riiiight!) is going back to BestBuy today, and Ill be getting the Hauppage WinTV-GO so I can run PowerVCR with MPEG2 and up to 10mbps or low as 4mbps videos! Then Ill use TMPGenc to go to VCD with an excelent result. Cause we all know...

Great quality source -> TMPGEnc -> VCD is the only way to get a great quality VCD!

Hope that helps. Im happy with the card its self, but too limiting, and the ultimate demise of it is sadly, the lack of VCR-2 CODEC, else Id bit my lip and keep it!!

(BTW, uses the Booktree 878 chipset, its common as dirt, and is used on all (?) the other ATI cards with a tuner... There is *NO* reason ATI could not have bundled VCR-2 in this package!! They are push shopping you to a more expensive card if you want decent/quality captures! Bastages!!)

Oh yeah, we *all* "know" that ATI has no hardware compression right? So *all* the VCR1 and VCR2 compression is done via software, right? I rest my case...

(Please, no flames, Im trying to share knowledge and experience with a product to help others...)